Had a request......What would you do? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 11:00
Okay I have several family friends, that I consider more family than most of my family.

Last night a friend of mine's daughter 22 year old, she just finished graduated college....Double major Business Finance and Economics....During college she worked any job she could get some times working two jobs, during holidays to pay her way through school.
When her Dad was laid off 2 years back she handed over all her check to them to help..When her grandma was sick before she passed she spent time with her bathing her and changing her.....

She is hard-working, not party chick, actually kind of nerdy, but sweet gal none the less.

.But this caught me off guard....So for past 7 months (since she graduated) She has not for the life of her been able to land employment, and what I mean "employment" I mean a "career." Professional job....(that she went to school for, no shortage of service industry jobs or retail)

Her work experience has been retail, and while she did well, and good report she has been unable to land employment.

She has interviewed ALOT, but the biggest objection that comes is she lacks "experience." She has worked since she was 15, but the experience most of the places she is applying, Banking, Financial Services, Insurance Services, Actuary, and Consulting places, all want experience in that field, shoot even the "entry-level" ones, want experience on top of School.

I know the economy is bad, and the competition is stiff, she is very professional, and I would hire her if I could, but since I am starting from scratch my agency, I could not guarantee her a "career." (And now with this I dunno if I could trust her)
Only a job, so she asked me for favor, she was very ashamed, (or seemed like it) but after explaining to me all that she is going through in her quest to utilize her education, she asked me to LIE.

She asked if she could put on her Resume, that she worked for me for a period of time as an Account Executive/Customer Service for my Insurance and Financial Services Agency the last 2 years while she went to school.

:dunno:

What would you folks have done??....

Be honest, and please give your reasoning...I will tell all of you what I said and did.

kiole
12-03-2012, 11:03
I would probably do it..

fnfalman
12-03-2012, 11:06
It's all about your personal ethics.

I can't tell you what you should do.

As for me, I wouldn't do it. I'd write a glowing letter of recommendation based on her potentials, but that's about it.

Edit to add: My reasoning is that my word is my bond. My clients, my peers, my subordinates, my superiors, they all trust in my words. If I were to lie for somebody no matter how noble the cause is, then it's still a lie.

Don't get me wrong, I lie out of my ass to pick up chicks when I'm off work, but when it's business related, I'm all 100% transparent.

byf43
12-03-2012, 11:07
Be honest, and please give your reasoning...I will tell all of you what I said and did.


You answered the question, yourself.

I cannot and won't lie, for anyone.

There it is. You asked.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 11:08
You answered the question, yourself.

I cannot and won't lie, for anyone.

There it is. You asked.

"Honest" in what you would do, not with who you would be "honest" with.

byf43
12-03-2012, 11:11
"Honest" in what you would do, not with who you would be "honest" with.

I would not and will not lie, for anyone.
That is my ethic.
It's not fair to the other person, or 'you' (whomever 'you' covers).

As fnfalman said, my word is my bond

For me. . . . I'm only as good as my word. After all, it's all that I truly have.

curlysir
12-03-2012, 11:13
One of the many problems with the request is that if it is every found out that she didn't actually work for you it would be cause for immediate dismissal with most companies.

I would not have done it and explained the reasoning besides not being good business ethics and could reflect negatively on you. I would offer my name as a personal and professional reference.

LSUAdman
12-03-2012, 11:18
Kommie-

I was in a similar situation a few months ago, and posted this on GT. the consensus was that you shouldn't lie to help get someone ahead.

In my situation, I had a past coworker who had been unemployed for the past three years. One day the CEO of a large, nationwide sporting goods company calls me asking for a recommendation. I give her a glowing recommendation - until he tells me about what the job entails.

The problem was that she was applying for a position that would have her cross managing several departments with skill sets she doesnt have knowledge in (she works in scheduling commercials - this job would require her to manage graphic designers, writers, etc). I told the CEO point blank that I could only endorse her on the skillset she had, and management of cross-segmented departments was not one of them.

Some on GT called me an a-hole, but here's the deal: you do her no favor for lying. If she gets the job and it doesnt work out, she'll be miserable, the company will be miserable and she will be fired. Then she has THAT on her resume.

As others have said, writer her a letter of endorsement for the skillset you know she has. From what you write, she is a hard and determined worker who is also compasionate. Hearing that she wanted you to lie, however, makes me as a small business owner and previous hiring manager, want to avoid her like herpes.

NH Trucker
12-03-2012, 11:21
In desperate times, some will resort to desperate measures. Her coming across as "ashamed" when she asked you to lie for her, to me, says that she knows it isn't right, and that it's a big deal for her, but she has exhausted all other options she knows of. It doesn't make it right in any regard, but I wouldn't worry too much about her morality as of yet.


Do you know anyone within that field that might be able to take her on for a while, to give her some experience? Perhaps if you could get her in the door somewhere, it'll be win/win for the both of you, as neither of you will have to go against your personal morals or values.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 11:25
But I did it, in hind sight it probably wasn't the best thing to do. But in that moment, I felt it too difficult to say no, then I started rationalizing and justifying it like this: Telling my self that more than half of people lie on resumes, by enhancing their skills, and many times claiming degrees and educational accolades they never completed.

Oh well I messed up, one thing though she is doing is meeting with my wife, this weekend, so my wife can teach her the "in's and Out's," and basic/general knowledge and terms of our industry and agency, that way if she gets "called out" she can at least "look like" she knows what she is talking about. Just to get her foot in the door, then it will be sink or swim.

I know this no excuse but I have seen how corporations/large companies operate (from years working for them) and how they hire, as it is you need to have an "in" and in this economy the anti has been upped.

Flame away, and I am conflicted, because I know it was wrong, but I wanted to help her......
This may or may not come back to bite me in the ass, if it does then it is what it is.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 11:28
Do you know anyone within that field that might be able to take her on for a while, to give her some experience? .


This was the first thing I did I started calling friends and contacts I had, most of them are downsizing, and could only offer her an Internship given economy, and she needs some steady income as she is trying to get out on her own....

She helps her parents out financially, (something pretty rare these days of young folks) and anything else.
So that has slowed her down, about fiscally from some of her goals but I never ever hear her complain or talk about it, I only know because her dad tells me.

Patchman
12-03-2012, 11:31
OK so you know her personally and know her background. Obviously she's desperate to find a career job. Can't blame her.

But I also wouldn't write something so completely false.

maybe you can find a project in your office that she can work on? Then, when needed, you can write a great letter of recommendation not only about how you've known her, her character, work ethics, etc... but you can also truthfully say you have personal knowledge of her professional abilities because she's wrapping up a special project in your office, etc...

jame
12-03-2012, 11:33
I all give up my money, my home, and even my family before I ever give up my integrity. If I work hard enough, I can get everything else back. Once my integrity is gone, it's gone for good.

Integrity is absolutely, positively everything.

Tell her to be patient. It'll happen.

NH Trucker
12-03-2012, 11:36
But I did it, in hind sight it probably wasn't the best thing to do. But in that moment, I felt it too difficult to say no, then I started rationalizing and justifying it like this: Telling my self that more than half of people lie on resumes, by enhancing their skills, and many times claiming degrees and educational accolades they never completed.

Oh well I messed up, one thing though she is doing is meeting with my wife, this weekend, so my wife can teach her the "in's and Out's," and basic/general knowledge and terms of our industry and agency, that way if she gets "called out" she can at least "look like" she knows what she is talking about. Just to get her foot in the door, then it will be sink or swim.

I know this no excuse but I have seen how corporations/large companies operate (from years working for them) and how they hire, as it is you need to have an "in" and in this economy the anti has been upped.

Flame away, and I am conflicted, because I know it was wrong, but I wanted to help her......
This may or may not come back to bite me in the ass, if it does then it is what it is.




You weighed the pros and the cons, and made the best decision you could given the circumstances. I hope it all works out in the end for her. :wavey:

Lonestar 48
12-03-2012, 11:37
What if you offer her an internship, unpaid, that would give her some experience? Allow her the time to work a part time job for some income, and then if she turns out to be an asset, one creating profits for you, then you might hire her. Down the road, she would be able to list your company on her resume, she would have experience, and you might have increased your revenues because of her participation.

aplcr0331
12-03-2012, 11:38
So she does not want to take a retail job, because why? As late as 2008 I worked at Wal-Mart. As late as 2011 I worked as a security guard(along with my full-time job) to make ends meet and support my family. I have two BA degrees along with an MBA in IT Management (plus two Associates degrees but those don't count). No. job. is. beneath. anyone. Made contacts at my security gig that turned into a higher paying job somewhere else so I no longer had to work two jobs. Now I work one job and support my family. I'm in my 40's.

I would probably lie for her though.

Oh and I'll be the jerk who says it, TOGTFO.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 11:42
So she does not want to take a retail job, because why? As late as 2008 I worked at Wal-Mart. As late as 2011 I worked as a security guard(along with my full-time job) to make ends meet and support my family. I have two BA degrees along with an MBA in IT Management (plus two Associates degrees but those don't count). No. job. is. beneath. anyone. Made contacts at my security gig that turned into a higher paying job somewhere else so I no longer had to work two jobs. Now I work one job and support my family. I'm in my 40's.

I would probably lie for her though.

Oh and I'll be the jerk who says it, TOGTFO.

Nothing against retail, or the service industry jobs she had, in fact, she is doing them without complaints.

She is trying to get some stability, 8-5 hours, a steady pay. It is hard to make a permanent move when Service Industry jobs as retail fluctuate, from Hours, schedule, etc. Everybody wants a career, nobody wants a job.

byf43
12-03-2012, 11:43
But I did it, in hind sight it probably wasn't the best thing to do. But in that moment, I felt it too difficult to say no, then I started rationalizing and justifying it like this: Telling my self that more than half of people lie on resumes, by enhancing their skills, and many times claiming degrees and educational accolades they never completed.

Oh well I messed up, one thing though she is doing is meeting with my wife, this weekend, so my wife can teach her the "in's and Out's," and basic/general knowledge and terms of our industry and agency, that way if she gets "called out" she can at least "look like" she knows what she is talking about. Just to get her foot in the door, then it will be sink or swim.

I know this no excuse but I have seen how corporations/large companies operate (from years working for them) and how they hire, as it is you need to have an "in" and in this economy the anti has been upped.

Flame away, and I am conflicted, because I know it was wrong, but I wanted to help her......
This may or may not come back to bite me in the ass, if it does then it is what it is.

No flames from me.

You did what YOU thought was right, for the situation.

You asked what "I" would do, and why.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 11:45
What if you offer her an internship, unpaid, that would give her some experience? Allow her the time to work a part time job for some income, and then if she turns out to be an asset, one creating profits for you, then you might hire her. Down the road, she would be able to list your company on her resume, she would have experience, and you might have increased your revenues because of her participation.


She offered to help me on her days off at office, with no pay, just to get experience, but I have always felt like crap with internships, I don't believe in making some one work for free. I have serious personal qualms with it. She is gonna come by this weekend with wife to office, if there is something she wants to do after wife briefs her, then thats fine.....

I made my choice to help her without strings attached, so I am not gonna be "that guy" the "you owe me one" type of person...

Glock20 10mm
12-03-2012, 11:49
Tough call, on the one hand I get the side that says now and why and the other side I get their point as well. But to me it comes down to this reality, one I faced myself in life and I was fortunate enough to have someone in a position to help, similar to yourself.

If you know the person to be above board and a hard charger (as it appears by your post) then giving someone a little more help, especially in a tight market like this, then I would probably do it but keep it simple. If the market was more open then no I wouldn't.

I have said this before and will probably say it again. Sometimes good people are put in a position that no matter how good they are, how smart they are or how lucky they still need a nudge from someone else to get them back onto or in this case, onto the track of success.

robin303
12-03-2012, 11:52
I'm in construction and when somebody lies to me of what they can do I can spot it in less than 30 minutes. Not that hard to figure out they can't caulk, finish concrete or even trim a simple door and ect.

She sounds like a 1st class young lady at her age already and I would do everything I could to help her out if she was family.

kiole
12-03-2012, 12:01
I didn't realize she doesn't know the terminology and logistics of the field. In that case I would say no. If she had real world experience and asked you to simply exaggerate her length of work and position I would say help her out.

wvtarheel
12-03-2012, 12:19
There are ways you can help her without being dishonest. Give her an unpaid internship at your company for as long as she wants it. She can pad her resume that way, get the same thing she is asking you for, and no one has to lie.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 12:20
I didn't realize she doesn't know the terminology and logistics of the field. In that case I would say no. If she had real world experience and asked you to simply exaggerate her length of work and position I would say help her out.


She does have some knowledge, her insurance knowledge is limited to Life, Annuities, and Financial Services, which is only a portion of what we do. But, she knows enough I am only doing it to give her some more knowledge, besides the field she is perusing is not 100% of what we do anyways.

But many times Financial Services, 401k, 529, IRA, life Insurance and banking products are similar....So its not too much of stretch, then couple with her undergrad studies, in Finance I am sure they versed her in the Terminology. But, I am gonna have the wife help her, and let her have any literature, training manuals, books, she may need or want, that I have shelved, that can help.
Product knowledge, any one can learn that, the efficient execution of the job task. I think with her experience in Retail her ability to to deal with people, and customer services should give her solid background in dealing with folks.

Bren
12-03-2012, 12:42
I would tell her that could do more harm than good, if she ends up applying for or getting a job that is very thorough about their background checks, or she ends up coincidentally working with somebody who knows somebody there or something like that. The potential trouble will make things a lot harder for her than a lack of experience.

Glockgeezer
12-03-2012, 12:49
Honesty & integrity are 2 of the things most lacking in people today IMHO. When you tell a lie it usually takes more lies to back up the one you first told. Soon the line between truth and lie becomes , at best, blurred. I wouldn't lie for my own kids It's the best lesson they could learn!

fwm
12-03-2012, 12:52
She asked if she could put on her Resume, that she worked for me for a period of time as an Account Executive/Customer Service for my Insurance and Financial Services Agency the last 2 years while she went to school.



The second person I ever saw fired was a man that worked next to me. He did a great job. One day the manager came out and fired him then and there. He found a lie in his resume, and that was that. The fact he was a good worker, and we where still hiring had no bearing on it. A lie on a resume is a death sentence.

They probably WILL call you to find out what kind of a worker she was, maybe months after she already has the job. The best answer is that while you like her, HR will only let you give her dates of employment. Standard answer. Better know the dates of employment!

(The first person I saw fired was a nineteen year old girl that had a habit of bending over in a min-skirt, no panties, and showing the world her stuff. Did it in front of the boss one day.)

Times are tough. Why would a company hire a recent grad when there are plenty of experienced people out there still looking for a job.

SRS
12-03-2012, 12:53
It's a tough situation to be in. Be very careful if she applies for any government jobs that require a background check. If an investigator calls to verify her employment history, both you and the family friend could be in a much worse situation.

countrygun
12-03-2012, 13:01
It's a tough situation to be in. Be very careful if she applies for any government jobs that require a background check. If an investigator calls to verify her employment history, both you and the family friend could be in a much worse situation.

^^^^

this is not to be ignored, the possibility does exist.

I have beenput in that situation and, if I know the person as you do, I can write a heck of a personal reference letter and I have been known to go throught my "connections" if it is possible to get the person an inside track if I can. I do have to tell the person (or family)that it is my reputation on the line and I will do all I can SHORT of risking that.

Dennis in MA
12-03-2012, 13:23
Bullcrap.

First - how can we judge this without a pic. You are a disgrace to your avatar. ;)

Second - I don't buy the entry-level job thing. I know she could find one. I know she could get one. ENTRY level. Hell, she could starve selling life insurance for 2 years. Probably get a leg up on hiring being a wimmins. Would get training in the industry. And probably a small stipend salary to keep her fed. She puts her time in and in 2 years when the industry is stronger, she's got experience AGE and education behind her. Seems pretty smart.

Third - don't ask me to lie for you to get a job. Sorry. It won't happen.

Fourth - Econ degree??? What did she WANT to do when she went to college anyhow? Maybe she should have gone to a Voc HS. LOL

jame
12-03-2012, 13:42
Second - I don't buy the entry-level job thing. I know she could find one. I know she could get one. ENTRY level. Hell, she could starve selling life insurance for 2 years. Probably get a leg up on hiring being a wimmins. Would get training in the industry. And probably a small stipend salary to keep her fed. She puts her time in and in 2 years when the industry is stronger, she's got experience AGE and education behind her. Seems pretty smart.



That's actually how I started my professional career. It's a great way to start, really. It toughens you up, makes you think hard and DRIVE hard. After 1 1/2 to 2 years, with even a modicum of success, she can move proudly onward with the real school lessons she earned on her own, utilizing all of the networking skills she's developed.

Go out, find it, kill it, and bring it home. Great lessons......

ICARRY2
12-03-2012, 13:59
No. I understand she has two degrees, but it won't take long for an employer to figure out she has no experience once she started a job where she claimed to have previous experience.

She will screw herself in the long-run.

Lots of college grads in her shoes right now. Good luck.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-03-2012, 15:00
I think I made a mistake, but sometimes your emotions cloud your judgement.



BTW- in regards to me not living up to my avatar, I won't post pic because it is a small world, and given subject, but she is a plain Jane ginger with an apple bottom tush. (Hope that helps) she is about 5.5-6 range could be a 9 if she dressed up, but dresses to conservatively to accurately check figure..... Apple bottom seen via jeans.


Now back to issue at hand, I appreciate feedback the idea of government job had't even crossed my mind.

Phaze5ive
12-03-2012, 15:14
Her school didn't provide her with paid/unpaid intern opportunities, co-ops, etc? Has she tried going back as a graduate and attending more fairs and workshops? Finding work with a BA in Business is hard enough, but to leave school with that degree and no experience is almost unmarketable.

As for your situation, I wouldn't have done it unless it was a closely-related family member, and one that I trust.

TK-421
12-03-2012, 15:21
I wouldn't lie for her, no way. If she is really that desperate for work, and she needs experience to get the work, then maybe she needs to start offering to volunteer her time to get that experience. Instead of applying for a job, have her apply for uncompensated work with a company who is willing to train her and give her experience, in return for not having to pay her.

RonS
12-03-2012, 15:26
If it shows up on a BI she is done. Lying during the hiring process is cause for termination and would follow her for a long time. I understand her frustration and sympathize with her. I would not judge her for it but I would also probably turn her down with the explanation that it is too risky for her, she wants to work in finance and that would probably be a bar for many employers if she was caught. The assumption would be that if she will lie about work experience she would lie about matters of substance.

Where is her college? Is she using their placement assistance or are they one of the lame ones who have an office but don't do anything?

Be easy on her, she is young and doesn't really get that life isn't fair yet. She knows it was wrong but the way society is and they way banking and finance operate these days it probably seems par for the course to her. She may very well be being beaten out by people who are lying about their experience.

I hope she finds something soon.

Ian Moone
12-03-2012, 15:29
If she did not actually work for you, I would not assist her in that manner if I were you.

It is common practice to fire anyone who files a false job application. If she is hired by someone and her job performance does not match that of someone with two years experience, she may be called out on her dishonesty. Could really hurt her in the long run.

Detectorist
12-03-2012, 15:31
If you listen to some folks on here, it's freaking easy to get a job these days and if you can't. it's your fault. The economy, prejudice, HR, has nothing to do with it.

I'm sure something is wrong with her and I know this because she can't get a job. lol

Realistically, I'm surprised she can't find employment. However, please don't lie for her. In this day and age, it seems OK for the boss to lie to the employee but not for the line worker to ever lie.

TK-421
12-03-2012, 15:45
If you listen to some folks on here, it's freaking easy to get a job these days and if you can't. it's your fault. The economy, prejudice, HR, has nothing to do with it.

I'm sure something is wrong with her and I know this because she can't get a job. lol

Realistically, I'm surprised she can't find employment. However, please don't lie for her. In this day and age, it seems OK for the boss to lie to the employee but not for the line worker to ever lie.

I love the people who think you can walk down the street and people just jump out of bushes offering you jobs. :rofl:

Sorry people, but it's not as easy to get a job as people imagine it to be.

Foxterriermom
12-03-2012, 16:02
Have you considered as a business owner yourself how you would feel if you found out you hired someone who had lied on their resume? Also, how would you feel knowing that the person you called to check for work references had lied to you as well (cause chances are, you will get called and have to perpetuate the lie)? It tarnishes not only her reputation, but yours as well.

I am all for helping someone out as much as you can, but not to the extent I would lie about it. It seems that you feel very uncomfortable now about the position you have put yourself in. Is is too late at this point to call your friend and tell her that after further consideration you don't want her to use you as a work reference but that you are willing to be a personal reference for her? You mentioned that you aren't sure you will ever be able to fully trust her again after she asked you to lie for you. Maybe she isn't sure now she can fully trust you either, since you are willing to do it. Just a thought.

fnfalman
12-03-2012, 16:15
I love the people who think you can walk down the street and people just jump out of bushes offering you jobs. :rofl:

Sorry people, but it's not as easy to get a job as people imagine it to be.

No, it's not "easy" to get a good job and develop a career.

However, it's not that hard either. The career path started during the college education via internship and co-opt programs. For whatever reasons, this young lady did not avail herself to this option and now she's paying the price.

Gallium
12-03-2012, 16:25
Many times the right things in life to do are some of the hardest, or easiest decisions...but that is always totally dependent on how you view life.

If would have been easier FOR ME to give her dad a small stipend every month to do odd jobs for me (thus freeing her of the obligation to provide for her entire family).

Dad being laid off for 2 years is ringing my bell. Why is he not doing a $8.50/hr security guard gig?

427
12-03-2012, 16:30
But I did it, in hind sight it probably wasn't the best thing to do. But in that moment, I felt it too difficult to say no, then I started rationalizing and justifying it like this: Telling my self that more than half of people lie on resumes, by enhancing their skills, and many times claiming degrees and educational accolades they never completed.

Oh well I messed up, one thing though she is doing is meeting with my wife, this weekend, so my wife can teach her the "in's and Out's," and basic/general knowledge and terms of our industry and agency, that way if she gets "called out" she can at least "look like" she knows what she is talking about. Just to get her foot in the door, then it will be sink or swim.

I know this no excuse but I have seen how corporations/large companies operate (from years working for them) and how they hire, as it is you need to have an "in" and in this economy the anti has been upped.

Flame away, and I am conflicted, because I know it was wrong, but I wanted to help her......
This may or may not come back to bite me in the ass, if it does then it is what it is.

She's going to eventually get busted.

We all know people who've raised our eyebrows in casual conversations with people who talk about subjects/experiences they obviously don't know about or haven't had.

NMG26
12-03-2012, 16:31
Bank teller Jobs are pretty easy to get and she can move from there.

That is what she should do.

I would not lie.

427
12-03-2012, 16:33
Tell her to apply at a car dealership. There are jobs that range from sales to admin.

Poncho1969
12-03-2012, 16:54
If it were me I would do it.

jdavionic
12-03-2012, 17:01
I would not lie for her. I'd offer to help her in other ways that don't involve being dishonest.

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AZ DBLTRBL
12-03-2012, 17:03
Okay I have several family friends, that I consider more family than most of my family.

Last night a friend of mine's daughter 22 year old, she just finished graduated college....Double major Business Finance and Economics....During college she worked any job she could get some times working two jobs, during holidays to pay her way through school.
When her Dad was laid off 2 years back she handed over all her check to them to help..When her grandma was sick before she passed she spent time with her bathing her and changing her.....

She is hard-working, not party chick, actually kind of nerdy, but sweet gal none the less.

.But this caught me off guard....So for past 7 months (since she graduated) She has not for the life of her been able to land employment, and what I mean "employment" I mean a "career." Professional job....(that she went to school for, no shortage of service industry jobs or retail)

Her work experience has been retail, and while she did well, and good report she has been unable to land employment.

She has interviewed ALOT, but the biggest objection that comes is she lacks "experience." She has worked since she was 15, but the experience most of the places she is applying, Banking, Financial Services, Insurance Services, Actuary, and Consulting places, all want experience in that field, shoot even the "entry-level" ones, want experience on top of School.

I know the economy is bad, and the competition is stiff, she is very professional, and I would hire her if I could, but since I am starting from scratch my agency, I could not guarantee her a "career." (And now with this I dunno if I could trust her)
Only a job, so she asked me for favor, she was very ashamed, (or seemed like it) but after explaining to me all that she is going through in her quest to utilize her education, she asked me to LIE.

She asked if she could put on her Resume, that she worked for me for a period of time as an Account Executive/Customer Service for my Insurance and Financial Services Agency the last 2 years while she went to school.

:dunno:

What would you folks have done??....

Be honest, and please give your reasoning...I will tell all of you what I said and did.

She didn't work for you, so to say she did is a lie. I would not want to encourage her to get into that bottomless pit...it undermines her integrity and yours. Your word has to mean something...and you are either a liar or you are not. Write a great Rec letter for her, but don't lie for her. Just my thoughts on this...I wouldn't do it.

larry_minn
12-03-2012, 17:30
I just read to "I did it" IMO call her ASAP. Tell her you changed your mind/realize it will NOT WORK.
What are you going to do when she wants W-2s? Other info that you MUST HAVE . Or did you hire her under table? IRS wants to know.
You are digging yourself/her a hole. Hire her as intern, at most have her help out as NON paid learning.
I had some paperwork that the info was wrong. It had already been submitted/does not matter but it still bothers me. I noticed mistake but didn't make scene to correct error.

Petra
12-03-2012, 17:40
Has she looked at the airline industry? With her degrees she could get an entry level job in their Revenue Management departments. She could also look at their Pricing Departments. Pricing is usually a stepping stone to RM. Just a thought.

NIB
12-03-2012, 17:40
I wouldn't for the fact that it only hurts her in the end. Someday, somehow that lie could catch up to her and it could really cost her. I would rather offer her to come in and intern for a few hours a week and have her get some experience. This would look better on her resume than lying about 2 years of experience.

Andy123
12-03-2012, 17:49
Not saying it is right or wrong what she tried to do. However, I will say two things . .

One, resumes are probably less factual than they have ever been. What can I say, that is reality. Someone not willing to embelish a bit is going to be at a competitive disadvantage.

Two, the world, and the US seems to be in a major reorganization of the very fabric of society itself. Who knows how it will turn out. However, I don't think that the result will be pretty for those left on the bottom of the divide.

Again, not saying its right, but I could understand the motivation.

HexHead
12-03-2012, 18:27
I'm going to give you my stock answer I always give when someone asks for advice on the Internet about an "ethical dilemma".

If you have to ask, don't do it.

You already know it's wrong, a bad idea, and you're just trying to justify or get "permission" for an unethical act.

Dennis in MA
12-03-2012, 18:31
I love the people who think you can walk down the street and people just jump out of bushes offering you jobs. :rofl:

Sorry people, but it's not as easy to get a job as people imagine it to be.

Maybe today is different. But the last recession/housing crisis, I had 4 job offers.

Jim Croce - Workin' At The Car Wash Blues (Live) [remastered 16:9] - YouTube

zoyter2
12-03-2012, 18:33
..........................
Edit to add: My reasoning is that my word is my bond. My clients, my peers, my subordinates, my superiors, they all trust in my words. If I were to lie for somebody no matter how noble the cause is, then it's still a lie.
.........................

I can think of nothing to add. Good on you fnfalman.

mortpes
12-03-2012, 22:22
I would seriously find some other way to help. Lies just have a way to never go away.

Gunhaver
12-03-2012, 22:35
I have tailored resumes' to specific jobs and given friend's numbers as contacts for past employers. Even gave my own home # and answered it as my imaginary ex-employer when they called. Basically BSed my way into several positions that I wasn't technically experienced at. One place had a requirement for experience on a boiler/chiller system that was brand new. Nobody could have had a chance to get any experience on this thing yet so they don't even know what they're asking for sometimes. I snapped some pics and googled the hell out of that thing so I knew enough to BS my way through the second interview with the maintenance director and I was in.

I've been BSed by employers way more than I've ever BSed them so I still come out on top. Do what she needs you to do to get her the job and don't worry about it. It's only a bad thing if she's a screw-up.

Gunhaver
12-03-2012, 22:50
In this day and age, it seems OK for the boss to lie to the employee but not for the line worker to ever lie.

Exactly. I lost count of the number of times an entire commercial or residential property just HAD to be in tip-top shape because "insurance people" or "owners" were coming to look at the place. After 3-6 months of busting a hump to get some neglected place back online it gets sold and I'm out of a job. Even after I picked up on the pattern and flat out asked them they would lie about it. That was my job cycle for 4 years and it drove me into business for myself. Now I only get lied to by suppliers and customers and they're much easier to replace than an employer. Don't understand why people feel compelled to give honesty to those that don't return the favor.

*ASH*
12-03-2012, 22:56
a lie is a lie, it always come back in some form to ***** slap you . i would tell her no . anyone can find out if she worked for or not . then you get busted lying then your business go down the tube

countrygun
12-03-2012, 23:41
I have tailored resumes' to specific jobs and given friend's numbers as contacts for past employers. Even gave my own home # and answered it as my imaginary ex-employer when they called. Basically BSed my way into several positions that I wasn't technically experienced at. One place had a requirement for experience on a boiler/chiller system that was brand new. Nobody could have had a chance to get any experience on this thing yet so they don't even know what they're asking for sometimes. I snapped some pics and googled the hell out of that thing so I knew enough to BS my way through the second interview with the maintenance director and I was in.

I've been BSed by employers way more than I've ever BSed them so I still come out on top. Do what she needs you to do to get her the job and don't worry about it. It's only a bad thing if she's a screw-up.

So it doesn't bother you if someone does that to you?

TKM
12-04-2012, 00:07
I've been used as a reference for a remarkable number of .gov jobs. I have gone through all of the background checks and security clearances that make me seem like a reputable citizen.

I have never lied for anybody. It is too easy to impugn both of our characters. If I say it, it can be checked and signed off on.

Any future background investigations will involve both you and your friend. Unless you have an interest in politics it just isn't worth bending the truth.

TK-421
12-04-2012, 00:27
Maybe today is different. But the last recession/housing crisis, I had 4 job offers.

Jim Croce - Workin' At The Car Wash Blues (Live) [remastered 16:9] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLKhUnl_yhc&sns=em)

I'm a broke college student, I have no experience other than retail. They're expecting people to have 2-3 years of experience, if not more. So I always get passed over for other people who need a job, and actually have the experience. If you have experience, it's not so difficult. If you don't have experience, it's very difficult. So I just keep chugging along, filling out applications, trying to find ways to get experience and make myself a presentable candidate for every job I apply for.

Detectorist
12-04-2012, 00:49
Not saying it is right or wrong what she tried to do. However, I will say two things . .

One, resumes are probably less factual than they have ever been. What can I say, that is reality. Someone not willing to embelish a bit is going to be at a competitive disadvantage.



I agree. I haven't been willing to embellish my resume...yet. I've seen some from others that I know were full of caca.

Gunhaver
12-04-2012, 00:50
So it doesn't bother you if someone does that to you?

I worked for that country club for 2 years before moving on and they were glad to have me. I figured out that the problem they were having with their new system was a pneumatic thermostat calibration issue while previous employees had just replaced them and expected them to work like a regular thermostat. They needed a guy with the ability to analyze systems and understand how each component worked. They thought that translated into experience. I just showed them otherwise.

I don't ever want my business to get so big that I need to hire people to do what I can't understand. If it were that way and someone could solve a major problem I've been having by BSing me into letting them take a shot at it then I hope they're a good BSer and I hope I fall for it.

They wanted someone that could figure out a wacky HVAC system. That's what they got. What's the problem?

Detectorist
12-04-2012, 00:54
I'm a broke college student, I have no experience other than retail. They're expecting people to have 2-3 years of experience, if not more. So I always get passed over for other people who need a job, and actually have the experience. If you have experience, it's not so difficult. If you don't have experience, it's very difficult. So I just keep chugging along, filling out applications, trying to find ways to get experience and make myself a presentable candidate for every job I apply for.

TK, just don't quit.

My latest strategy is to go to directly to local company web sites and put in my application directly. I also have followed up afterwards. I'm getting more interest that way.

I figure that once they talk with me they'll find me indispensable. :)

TK-421
12-04-2012, 01:08
TK, just don't quit.

My latest strategy is to go to directly to local company web sites and put in my application directly. I also have followed up afterwards. I'm getting more interest that way.

I figure that once they talk with me they'll find me indispensable. :)

I really need to get better at following up and calling people. But college is taking up a good chunk of my time. And after spending half an hour filling out their application, I really don't feel like bumming around their website trying to find a phone number and the name of their hiring manager.

I've been without a job since March, when I quit my job to move down to Austin. It really sucks being broke, and just getting into firearms. :rofl:

G23Gen4TX
12-04-2012, 01:28
Take her as an intern for a couple hours a day so she could get experience.

TK-421
12-04-2012, 01:29
Take her as an intern for a couple hours a day so she could get experience.

Glad most of us are republican or conservative, so we don't have to worry about that situation going the route of Bill Clinton. :tongueout:

average nobody
12-04-2012, 03:39
I dont want to have to lie for someone.

JMS
12-04-2012, 05:34
What are you going to do when she wants W-2s? Other info that you MUST HAVE . Or did you hire her under table? IRS wants to know.

Good point, if you are adamant about her keeping it on her resume, it should be an "unpaid internship."

ithaca_deerslayer
12-04-2012, 05:55
Set an example for her and don't lie. Also tell her not to go down that road.

686Owner
12-04-2012, 06:05
I would not and will not lie, for anyone.


That is a lie. :)

byf43
12-04-2012, 06:21
That is a lie. :)

And what makes you think that?? Got proof???? Do you know something that I don't. . . . about me??

:dunno:

Ironbar
12-04-2012, 06:40
It's all about your personal ethics.

I can't tell you what you should do.

As for me, I wouldn't do it. I'd write a glowing letter of recommendation based on her potentials, but that's about it.

Edit to add: My reasoning is that my word is my bond. My clients, my peers, my subordinates, my superiors, they all trust in my words. If I were to lie for somebody no matter how noble the cause is, then it's still a lie.

Don't get me wrong, I lie out of my ass to pick up chicks when I'm off work, but when it's business related, I'm all 100% transparent.

Then your word is NOT your bond, and you do NOT have the fine ethics you purported in the previous paragraphs. Real men do not lie to women to get in their panties.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-04-2012, 07:04
Sent me a really long worded thank you e-mail, and how she was moved that I was willing to do this, and sorry for asking me......and thank you, and some other emotional stuff that kind of made me feel uncomfortable...

HexHead
12-04-2012, 07:17
...and some other emotional stuff that kind of made me feel uncomfortable...

She hittin' on you now?

nmk
12-04-2012, 07:28
She hittin' on you now?

This could get interesting.

Foxterriermom
12-04-2012, 07:34
Hhmmm. It almost sounds as if she is playing on your sympathy.

byf43
12-04-2012, 07:57
Sent me a really long worded thank you e-mail, and how she was moved that I was willing to do this, and sorry for asking me......and thank you, and some other emotional stuff that kind of made me feel uncomfortable...

:wow:

She hittin' on you now?

That's what it reads as, to me.


Time to step back and set limits/boundaries. (Or run like H E Double Hockey Sticks!)

arclight610
12-04-2012, 08:20
I wouldn't have done it. Now, an employer may hire her over some other person who actually did have experience and went the extra mile to get internships or do a co-op while in school. Not to mention, it could end very badly for her if she gets in over her head or they find out that she lied.

A while ago I posted a thread here in GNG asking if college GPA mattered. Many experienced people chimed in, and said that experience with an adequate GPA would be more competitive than a 4.0. So, I went and got experience. I offered to "job-shadow" with a local fabrication company, and I drew up some parts on Inventor for them. That "job-shadowing" gave me enough resume experience to do a quality project for a bearing company. Both of those experiences allowed me to get the job I have now.

It's pretty much common knowledge among college students nowadays that you are screwed if you don't get work experience while in college. However, you allowed her to slip through the system and probably take the position of an honest person that put forth the effort while in school

HexHead
12-04-2012, 08:30
:wow:



That's what it reads as, to me.


Time to step back and set limits/boundaries. (Or run like H E Double Hockey Sticks!)

Or watch the movie "Breezy" on Netflix.

Fear Night
12-04-2012, 09:09
No, I would not have done it. Mainly because I know that most potential employers will be calling me before hiring her, and will want to hear every detail about her employment under me.

If something threw a wrench in the works, it could turn out even worse for her. Let's just hope that what she tells this potential employer during the interview, and what you tell them as a reference matches to a T.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-13-2012, 09:33
She hittin' on you now?


hope not, besides Mrs. Kommiefornia is wayy hotter.

KommieforniaGlocker
12-13-2012, 09:35
Hhmmm. It almost sounds as if she is playing on your sympathy.


This



From my understanding is that she was applying for a particular job that she really wanted, that required experience in my industry, and as far as her showing up for wife to show her "in's and out's" of industry she was a "No Show."

When wife called to see maybe she forgot, or maybe something happened she did not answer cel phone, and all calls went straight to voicemail.


Kommieforniaglocker = Sentimental Dumb Ass


Never again folks, never again

KommieforniaGlocker
12-13-2012, 09:36
:wow:



That's what it reads as, to me.


Time to step back and set limits/boundaries. (Or run like H E Double Hockey Sticks!)


yeah I would run, besides I have better at home :supergrin: I had threads on here with pics of my wife, from one I had about my son, but suddenly they are disappeared and gone (deleted) Irony is that they were ones that had nothing bad in them :dunno:

tslex
12-13-2012, 10:13
. . . she asked me to LIE.
. . . . .

What would you folks have done??....


http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n431/RobertKuntzJr/mpbrush.jpg



Be honest, and please give your reasoning...I will tell all of you what I said and did.

Seriously, even if she's not yours to spank, I don't think ultimately you did her any favor by doing this. She's stuck with that lie on her resume not just now, but forever. She stands the chance of having the lie exposed and losing not just her job, but her reputation in the industry. In a certain set of circumstances -- say she gets the job and the company is up for a government contract of the right type -- she could even have to choose between the truth and a crime.

These are all natural consequences of the lie she told by putting the item on her resume.

As for you, you have devalued your own integrity, even if only in your own view.

A better choice would have been to write her an outstanding personal reference, or even help her get some unpaid industry experience by interning for you.

Past is past. Not mine or anyone else's place to judge you, except that you asked.

ray9898
12-13-2012, 10:47
Sounds like you helped get her in over her head. I have been in several professions in my life and it was always obvious who had experience and who did not.

SRS
12-13-2012, 11:17
From my understanding is that she was applying for a particular job that she really wanted, that required experience in my industry, and as far as her showing up for wife to show her "in's and out's" of industry she was a "No Show."

When wife called to see maybe she forgot, or maybe something happened she did not answer cel phone, and all calls went straight to voicemail.



On the bright side, I certainly wouldn't feel any obligation to keep your end of the bargain at this point. You really stuck your neck out for her, and she didn't even give the slight effort you asked in return.