Question on rules for a Noob... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ken B
12-03-2012, 20:43
so we're getting ready for my daughter's first. We're going to catch the one in Dallas in May...and since I've not shot GSSF but have experience with USPSA, high power rifle, etc...i have some questions with how we're working our range sessions. we're practicing the stages slow-fire right now...

Going through the rules:

70.10 talks about safely transporting the firearm in a bag, etc...no probs there...
then 70.20 talks of how GSSF recommends you use a holster during the match, and the specifications for such...

we're going through our range sessions with Kennedy coming from slide lock, loading, firing her strings, slide locked back, replacing her Glock into her shooting bag with empty magazines, then we check targets...load up the magazines, set new targets, then work through the range commands, ready position, etc. we start working a timer in the next couple of weeks

is this a problem with most matches, specifically in Dallas? I don't think baby girl is ready to work in a holster yet (she's ten), so not a problem with her working out of her bag at the shooter's position. All the videos i'm finding on Youtube looks like everyone is working from holsters. If this is the case we may need to wait a year and postpone...

(I apologize if this sounds stupid, but after many USPSA matches local and up through area matches, I know some range officers aren't exactly friendly...and I'd not want to discourage her as she's getting started)

Glockrunner
12-03-2012, 21:09
She should do fine working from a bag.

Just remember, she can't retreive the gun from the bag until instructed by the RO.

No holsters are required at all.

Ted Smith
12-03-2012, 21:23
Hi Ken,

Not to worry. I'm sure several more will give good advice but I can address two points you've brought up.

I've been shooting GSSF matches for 10-12 years and have never used a holster. Bagging the guns after you've shot and safely dry-fired your Glock downrange is pretty standard stuff.

I'm a local and have been to the Dallas match just about every year it's been held since I started. As a rule in GSSF matches the RO's are universally friendly and helpful and the group out in Carrolton is no exception. A regular contributor in this forum (Malladus) usually works this match on the 5 to Glock stage and is an excellent source for specific questions. I'd be surprised if you don't see one of his posts in response in short order.

Ken B
12-03-2012, 21:32
I appreciate the confirmation...

we work with coming to the line and asking her if she understands the course of fire, then allow her to retrieve the pistol (all the while pointing down range into the berm) then sight picture, loading and making ready...etc...

she's coming along...alot better than I gave her credit for. I've been surprised at her determination to do this..(must get it from my ex LOL)

thanks for the help
KB

malladus
12-03-2012, 22:05
Not a problem working from a bag at all. In fact with so many people shooting multiple guns at matches now, its not that out of the norm to have shooters not using a holster.

From experience a few things to work into the routine to keep the ROs spidey senses from get all tingly when working from a bag. These are things the ROs at DPC (the club that hosts the match) tend to get onto folks about:

(1) Get in the habit of placing the gun into and taking it out of the bag muzzle down range. We have lots of new shooters come through who will pull the guns out muzzle facing many random directions.

(2) bring the bag to the gun. Once finished place the gun on the table in front of you and then bring the bag up and place the gun in it. A lot of folks tend to place the bag on the ground to the side and when they go to return or take it out they turn sideways and sweep the line or ROs.

(3) DPC has a strict muzzle 180 and vertical rule. The muzzle never goes higher then the dirt at the top of the berm. Even when the gun is empty. The ROs will call "muzzle" as a warning. We get a lot of shooters who are used to tactical reloads getting called for this.

The 180 is important on the 5 to glock as it is the only stage where multiple stations are in the same bay. All the rest are one per a bay.

(4) mags and gun should be in separate sections of the bag. We have some shooters who dump them in the case/bag together when done. Then the go sit someplace and start rummaging through it and handling the gun while getting the mags out and get called on it.

These are probably the most common issues we see at the match. No one takes it to an extreme and will politely correct the shooter, but if you are new and young it can throw you a little to have someone seemingly chastise you for something. Tends to get folks flustered and ruins their shooting and fun at the match.

I think The real reason for the holster suggestion is two fold. Limits handling of the gun at the line making it easier to control the shooter and it speeds up the number of shooters a station can cycle by eliminating a lot of time used for casing and in casing. But as I said with so many shooters running multiple guns, it really is moot a lot of the time.

As Ted said I usually RO 5 to Glock. I'm the tall high drag low speed looking fellow who will be getting his 8 year old to shag brass and sticker targets. Stop by and say hey before you start shooting and I will tell you which of the other stage ROs to sign in with who are good with new shooters.

malladus

SARDG
12-03-2012, 23:04
...we're going through our range sessions with Kennedy coming from slide lock, loading, firing her strings, slide locked back, replacing her Glock into her shooting bag...
You may, but there is no need to lock slide back if bagging or Glock-boxing your firearm.

Proper GSSF commands are:
Going hot
"...you may take out your firearm and take an unloaded sight picture..."
Load and make ready
Are you ready (rhetorical - RO should continue unless shooter says NO.)
Standby
*Buzz - through 3 or 4 strings
(RO may say "Reload" between strings, but most are just as happy (or happier) if you reload on your own between strings.)
If you are finished, unload and show clear
If the gun is clear, slide forward
Pull the trigger
Slide back (if you are holstering)
Holster, OR if you are not holsering...
Bag it
Range is safe

Due to many USPSA ROs and IDPA SOs ROing these matches, you will hear slight variations in commands.

See the GSSF RO Guide for GSSF-specific guidelines:
http://gssfonline.com/range-officer.cfm

lethal tupperwa
12-04-2012, 07:51
Kitty,
we always lock the slide back in a bag.

there is no reason not to (it would not fit in the old Glock boxes)

and we don't like surprises.

Glockrunner
12-04-2012, 08:23
Kitty,
we always lock the slide back in a bag.

there is no reason not to (it would not fit in the old Glock boxes)

and we don't like surprises.

But it isn't a requirement. Certainly helps to put the everyone at ease as the gun comes out of the bag though!

emtjr928
12-04-2012, 08:31
All good advise here. Without quoting the rules, the only thing I would add is to read the sections of the rules concerning number of rounds for each stage and decide how she would like to load out her mags. Many new shooters get confused on this. The goal of mag management is to have the correct number of rounds available in the gun for each string while minimizing the need to manipulate the firearm unnecessarily while on the line.

SARDG
12-04-2012, 08:42
But it isn't a requirement. Certainly helps to put the everyone at ease as the gun comes out of the bag though!
All tru 'nuff - especially about bringing the gun out of the bag on subsequent stages. Had a guy this past weekend in steel pull his gun out of the bag on his first stage, rack the slide, and a live round came flying out. An unfortunate combination of loaded gun, finger on trigger when removing the gun, and a 180 violation can spell DEATH. Nonetheless, GSSF doesn't require the slide be locked back to bag (or box) it and I don't personally lock mine back.

SARDG
12-04-2012, 08:48
All good advise here. Without quoting the rules, the only thing I would add is to read the sections of the rules concerning number of rounds for each stage and decide how she would like to load out her mags. Many new shooters get confused on this. The goal of mag management is to have the correct number of rounds available in the gun for each string while minimizing the need to manipulate the firearm unnecessarily while on the line.
All well said Ed... I can now only hope that this thread doesn't digress into a "how many rounds do you load in your mags?" thread.