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Henry's Dad
12-03-2012, 23:16
For horse owners on here:

My wife and I may be relocating to a more rural setting, and several of the houses I've seen have horse facilities as part of the property.

Since we're not horse people, could you envision a scenario where we could rent out the facilities to local horse owners and turn any type of decent profit?

Basically I'm thinking of a scenario where we would give right-of-way access for owners to come in and deal with their horses and we just collect a fee for letting them keep them there. I'm not looking to get into dealing the horses myself.

For those of you who own horses, how many of you keep them at a third-party facility (ie, on property you don't own)? What do you pay for this and what services are provided?

Thanks.

MarcDW
12-03-2012, 23:19
You need to consider the liability on this too.

bikerdog
12-03-2012, 23:26
A lot of what you are asking depends on your area and what kind of facilities you have. But for a base line. I have ten acres in a farming area. I used to own horses and I have a heated barn with stalls. I am now renting the space to some neighbors. They take care of the horses and just pay me monthly to keep them there. The issue is most people who are going to board their horses want some one to take care of them. They dont normally want to have to drive out and take care of the horses.

So can you turn a profit possible yes but it might be a little harder than you might suspect.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

collim1
12-04-2012, 08:50
I pay a lady to keep my horses on her property. Its an old family farm that is no longer used except for some horses and maybe 50 head of cattle.

I pay $45 per month per horse and have access to a barn stall for each horse and a 1 acre field for each horse. I also buy my hay from the property. I have access to all of the 250 acres of the property, which is a nice rural property BTW, which is nice because I dont have to trailer the horses to take a nice long ride.

This really is about as cheap as it gets for keeping a horse. The barn and facilities are pretty run down, and alot of people prefer a nicer place with full service employees. This place is about a mile from my house and is cheap, and I dont mind taking care of my horses myself. Plus they have good grass and no history of disease amongst the horses or cattle.

PBCounty
12-04-2012, 08:54
Common setup around here. I am not a horse person so I don't know the details - but I know a lot of people do it.

collim1
12-04-2012, 08:56
You need to consider the liability on this too.

In my state equestrian activities are a zero liability endeavor. No land owner, horse owner, riding instructor, etc...can be held liable for injuries related to equestrian activities. State law specifies that no civil court will hear it. I would imagine a lot of states have similar laws.

Straight from the state code:

(a) The Legislature recognizes that persons who participate in equine activities may incur injuries as a result of the risks involved in those activities. The Legislature also finds that the state and its citizens derive numerous economic and personal benefits from equine activities. The Legislature finds, determines, and declares that for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, and safety, and to encourage equine activities, this legislation is to limit the civil liability of those involved in equine activities.

(b) As used in this section, the following words shall mean the following unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:

(1) ENGAGES IN AN EQUINE ACTIVITY. Riding, training, providing, or assisting in providing medical treatment of, driving, or being a passenger upon an equine, whether mounted or unmounted, or any person assisting a participant or show management in equine activities. The term does not include being a spectator at an equine activity, except in cases where the spectator places himself or herself in an unauthorized area and in immediate proximity to the equine activity.

(2) EQUINE. A horse, pony, mule, donkey, ass, or hinny.

(3) EQUINE ACTIVITY. Any of the following:

a. Equine shows, fairs, competitions, performances, or parades that involve any or all breeds of equines and any of the equine disciplines, including, but not limited to: dressage, hunter and jumper horse shows, grand prix jumping, three-day events, combined training, rodeos, driving, pulling, cutting, polo, steeplechasing, English and western performance riding, endurance trail riding and western games, and hunting.

b. Equine training or teaching activities, or both.

c. Boarding equines.

d. Riding, inspecting, or evaluating an equine belonging to another, whether or not the owner has received some monetary consideration or other thing of value for the use of the equine or is permitting a prospective purchaser of the equine to ride, inspect, or evaluate the equine.

e. Rides, trips, hunts, or other equine activities of any type, however informal or impromptu, that are sponsored by an equine-activity sponsor.

f. Placing or replacing horseshoes on an equine.

g. Examining or administering medical treatment to an equine by a veterinarian.

(4) EQUINE ACTIVITY SPONSOR. An individual, group, club, partnership, or corporation, whether or not the sponsor is operating for profit or nonprofit, which sponsors, organizes, or provides the facilities for an equine activity, including, but not limited to: pony clubs, 4-H clubs, hunt clubs, riding clubs, school and college sponsored classes, programs, and activities, therapeutic riding programs, and operators, instructors, and promoters of equine facilities, including, but not limited to, stables, clubhouses, ponyride strings, fairs, and arenas at which the activity is held.

(5) EQUINE PROFESSIONAL. A person engaged for compensation in:

a. Instructing a participant or renting to a participant an equine for the purpose of riding, driving, or being a passenger upon the equine.

b. Renting equipment or tack to a participant.

c. Examining or administering medical treatment to an equine as a veterinarian.

(6) INHERENT RISKS OF EQUINE ACTIVITIES. Those dangers or conditions which are an integral part of equine activities, including, but not limited to:

a. The propensity of an equine to behave in ways that may result in injury, harm, or death to persons on or around them.

b. The unpredictability of the reaction of an equine to sounds, sudden movement, and unfamiliar objects, persons, or other animals.

c. Certain hazards such as surface and subsurface conditions.

d. Collisions with other equines or objects.

e. The potential of a participant to act in a negligent manner that may contribute to injury to the participant or others, such as failing to maintain control over the animal or not acting within his or her ability.

(7) PARTICIPANT. Any person, whether amateur or professional, who engages in an equine activity, whether or not a fee is paid to participate in the equine activity.

(c)(1) Except as provided in subdivisions (c)(2) and (c)(3), an equine activity sponsor, an equine professional, or any other person, which shall include a corporation or partnership, shall not be liable for an injury to or the death of a participant resulting from the inherent risks of equine activities and, except as provided in subdivisions (c)(2) and (c)(3), no participant or representative of a participant shall make any claim against, maintain an action against, or recover from an equine-activity sponsor, an equine professional, or any other person for injury, loss, damage, or death of the participant resulting from any of the inherent risks of equine activities.

(2) Nothing in subdivision (c)(1) shall prevent or limit the liability of an equine-activity sponsor, an equine professional, or any other person if the equine-activity sponsor, equine professional, or person:

a. Provided the equipment or tack, and knew or should have known that the equipment or tack was faulty, and the equipment or tack was faulty to the extent that it did cause the injury.

b. Provided the equine and failed to make reasonable and prudent efforts to determine the ability of the participant to engage safely in the equine activity and to safely manage the particular equine based on the participant's representations of his or her ability.

c. Owns, leases, rents, or otherwise is in lawful possession and control of the land or facilities upon which the participant sustained injuries because of a dangerous latent condition which was known or should have been known to the equine-activity sponsor, equine professional, or person and for which warning signs have not been conspicuously posted.

d. Commits an act or omission that constitutes willful or wanton disregard for the safety of the participant, and that act or omission caused the injury.

e. Intentionally injures the participant.

(3) Nothing in subdivision (c)(1), shall prevent or limit the liability of an equine activity sponsor or an equine professional under liability provisions as set forth in the products liability laws.

(d)(1) Every equine professional and every equine-activity sponsor shall post and maintain signs which contain the warning notice specified in subdivision (d)(2). Signs shall be placed in a clearly visible location on or near stables, corrals, or areas where the equine professional or the equine-activity sponsor conducts equine activities. The warning notice specified in subdivision (d)(2) shall appear on the sign in black letters, with each letter to be a minimum of one inch in height. Every written contract entered into by an equine professional or by an equine-activity sponsor for the providing of professional services, instruction, or the rental of equipment or tack or an equine to a participant, whether or not the contract involves equine activities on or off the location or site of the equine professional's or the equine-activity sponsor's business, shall contain in clearly readable print the warning notice specified in subdivision (d)(2).

(2) The signs and contracts described in subdivision (d)(1) shall contain the following warning notice:

WARNING

Under Alabama law, an equine activity sponsor or equine professional is not liable for an injury to or the death of a participant in equine activities resulting from the inherent risks of equine activities, pursuant to the Equine Activities Liability Protection Act.

(3) Failure to comply with the requirements concerning warning signs and notices provided in this section shall prevent an equine-activity sponsor or equine professional from invoking the privileges of immunity provided by this section.


The last part is posted at any equine facility/hospital/barn I have ever been in:

WARNING

Under Alabama law, an equine activity sponsor or equine professional is not liable for an injury to or the death of a participant in equine activities resulting from the inherent risks of equine activities, pursuant to the Equine Activities Liability Protection Act.

Shouldn't have much worry about liability.

vart
12-04-2012, 09:36
My parents have done this for decades. They charged about $100 a month per horse and my dad does all of the feeding/watering/maintenance.

When I was a kid, I had to feed them, keep track of the daily grain/medicine requirements, and clean out the stalls...

Now that my folks are retired and winter in AZ, they have one of the boarders take care of the daily chores in exchange for free board.

In the 30 years of doing this, there has never been a liability issue other than a couple of the horses destroying fences...

larry_minn
12-04-2012, 10:00
Friend of mine married gal who wanted horses. Bought "farm" and built stable. Her interest declined so he rented most of stable for other horses. The owners were supposed to take care of. He normally wound up "helping" them as they were too busy.
He got rid of her horses (and her) and was making good $$ boarding horses. Just a PITA so he got rid of the lot. Now it sits empty.

airmotive
12-04-2012, 11:00
Check your state laws. Texas has a similar law to Alabama.

That said, horses can be a pain.
Dangerous on both ends, uncomfortable in the middle and expensive all the way around.
There are probably 'canned' equestrian boarding contracts available on the web. We paid anywhere from $175/month full-care (in Virginia) up to $650/mo (!!) in Texas.

If you're not familiar at all with horses, you may wont to reconsider taking care of someone else's. They're as dumb as they are strong...and they have a self-destructive nature and really don't care what happens to you along the way. That just describes the good horses. Now throw in an ornery stallion or pissy mare with a biting habit, and you have a genuinely dangerous situation.

That sounds like I hate horses...I don't. That's just the way you have to see them if you're going to be in close contact with them on a regular basis.

Know what you're getting into.

skinny99
12-04-2012, 11:16
If you are not too far out of town people will pay just to use your barn and pasture. People get hooked on horses. My concern is that if you grant people access to your property that you will have people coming in and out of of your property at their leisure. I am not a fan of people on my land. One of the reason for having land is privacy in my opinion.

As far as what to charge, do a little survey of local places that offer similar services. Take ten minutes and make a few calls.

heyTJ
12-04-2012, 11:43
If your trying to make a huge or any profit by doing this, forgetaboutit!
I have 3 that I keep on my property, just a 4 stall barn with 5 acres with more than enough trail access.
I don't bother renting out the 4th stall, if I do then it's a "business" which I's rather not get into.
I am insured to the max, that includes 1 million riders on each of us.
We have mostly fantastic neighbors that lets us pass through, in return they can pet, visit and feed the horses anytime they like.
You have to have your heart in it to keep these companions, it's not chore, it's a way of life.

FullClip
12-04-2012, 11:50
I'd give it a try, why not make a few bucks to rent the barn out to a responsible horse owner.

And if it doesn't work out well, here's a site with good information that can help even things out for you....


http://metro.ca/recettes/46/horse-meat.en.html


:supergrin:

collim1
12-04-2012, 13:20
If you are not too far out of town people will pay just to use your barn and pasture. People get hooked on horses. My concern is that if you grant people access to your property that you will have people coming in and out of of your property at their leisure. I am not a fan of people on my land. One of the reason for having land is privacy in my opinion.

As far as what to charge, do a little survey of local places that offer similar services. Take ten minutes and make a few calls.

You have to establish rules and enforce them. My barn opens the gates at 6:30am and closes them at 8:00pm. You have to control people's access and behavior when allowing them onto your property.

If your trying to make a huge or any profit by doing this, forgetaboutit!
I have 3 that I keep on my property, just a 4 stall barn with 5 acres with more than enough trail access.
I don't bother renting out the 4th stall, if I do then it's a "business" which I's rather not get into.
I am insured to the max, that includes 1 million riders on each of us.
We have mostly fantastic neighbors that lets us pass through, in return they can pet, visit and feed the horses anytime they like.
You have to have your heart in it to keep these companions, it's not chore, it's a way of life.

What he said, you likely are not going to turn a profit unless you open a full service facility that is large in size. It might be enough to pay your yearly property tax assuming all the needed facilities are already in place. You would need barns, fenced paddocks, and a lighted/fenced riding arena in order to bring in customers.

jollygreen
12-04-2012, 13:22
we just collect a fee for letting them keep them there. I'm not looking to get into dealing the horses myself.


I'm familiar with what you describe. Guaranteed you're going to board a horse that's going to get sick, diseased, and have to be put down. The owners then are going to hold you responsible and you'll be liable since it was your property. Taking a fee to provide a living space for their animal assumes you'll maintain a decent living arrangement for the horse.

And the kicker is that generally it's the owner's fault. Most of them know squat about what it really requires to take care of a horse.

It's not worth it.

On a sidenote, thousands of animals were abandoned when the real estate market adjusted. People not only walked away from the property, they walked away from the horse.

HollowHead
12-04-2012, 13:53
We've done it for years. We also have an Equine Liability Act here but remember that these state statuates do NOT eliminate the possibility of being sued, they just eliminate the possibility of losing. You will still need to hire an attorney, etc. We had a formal written boarding contract drawn up years ago and it addresses everything from a boarder's guest getting kicked or thrown (we allow people to ride in our arena). The only thing we do not allow is for boarders to charge third parties for riding or lessons. While it's never happend to us, friends doing the same thing have had a horse abandonded (owner stopped showing/feeding/paying) and it cost them to have the brand reassigned. We don't make money but the income covers the care of our own three and the utilities (tank heaters run on 120 and spin the meter during the winter) Hope this helps. HH

Big Bird
12-04-2012, 14:18
The legal aspects are one thing that needs to be addressed and not by the folks here but by a competant local attorney.

Boarding horses for other people runs the gammut in terms of your involvement and their responsibilities. Obviously the more you do the more you charge. Around here full board with a stall, grain and hay, and daily turnout runs about $400-600 a month.
Pasture board where the horse just get a place to graze, maybe grain once a day and maybe a run-in shed to get out of the weather is $200-300.

Keep in mind that you basically loose control of the place when you board as people will come and go at all hours. You really can't deny someone access to their animal as veterinarians need to tend to sick critters and people go on trips etc and need to trailer their horses in and out at all hours. To tell someone the gates are locked at 8 PM around here wouldn't be tolerated.

If you have little experience dealing with horses I would recommend against it.

ALso, i terms of space. If you have really good pasture figure a minimum of 2 acres per animal. If you have crap pasture more. Ponies can be kept on a dry lot and probably should be if truth be told.

ron59
12-04-2012, 14:37
OP.... if you've picked up on one thing, it should be "barn". Does the property you're looking at already have a barn?

Horses have to be fed everyday. Usually hay and some oats. You don't leave oats out in the weather for sure, and hay gets musty fast if left out in the open. Also, people who own horses and don't have enough room to ride them, usually want to be able to ride them where they're kept. That means having enough room for that. AND they usually want to keep their "tack" close by. That means their saddles/blankets/bridles etc. Also water has to be available near the barn to be able to water them as well as to scrub them down after a ride.

Where my sister has always kept her horses... they were out in the pasture during the day, but when she'd go over after work to feed/water them, they went into the stalls for that and were left for the night. Not sure exactly how common that practice is.

I've never owned horses, but my sister has since she was in her early 20's (she's 50+ now). I've seen what it takes to keep them up, and no way would I want any part of that.

But yeah, she's kept her horses in 4-5 different places through the years, and they always had decent sized barns with a stall for each horse, room for hay/oats, and tack rooms. And of course the water as I mentioned. Just a big pasture probably won't get the job done.

2@low8
12-04-2012, 15:03
Lease the facility directly to the barn manager. Let him/her have the headache with the boarders. They pay a fixed monthly rate no matter if they have 1 horse or 10 horses. They collect monthly board not you. They write you one check per month.

They provide insurance to you. Your are twice removed from the horse owners at that point.