Anybody else actually enjoy Windows? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mr00jimbo
12-05-2012, 17:35
I have been using Windows 7 for years. XP and Vista had their bugs. 7 is really nice to use. I also like the layout of the Start button, the Control Panel, etc.
I have an iPad which is not bad, but I don't like the Apple OSX software layout.
With Windows, if something like my wireless printer quits working, I know where to go.

So far, I am on my 2nd Windows 7 laptop (1st Toshiba lasted 3 years of hard use and abuse). It's fast, it's secure, it works.

People always ***** about Windows but to me honest I really enjoy it. I have heard Windows 8 is a disaster though, but 7 seems great.

You?

TK-421
12-05-2012, 17:37
I've been using Vista for years, no complaints from me.

boozer
12-05-2012, 17:46
Ha! Wait until you see W8, its like starting all over.

You get used to it, but you end up wondering why.

(Comments intended for desktop version usage)

sbhaven
12-05-2012, 17:46
I've used one version or another of Windows since the Windows 3.0 days. All had their problems. Some were worse than others, XP and 7 are the best so far. This weekend reloaded Vista to one computer (Core 2 Duo with 4GB of RAM) to configure it as a media server (using Plex) and it runs very slow after loading all the MS updates to it (and before loading Plex to it). Vista is so slow that I'm now debating on going to Linux/XMBC on that computer.

robin303
12-05-2012, 17:49
Never tried 7 but always been happy with XP. I dont have any problems.

RGbiker
12-05-2012, 17:49
I've been using Vista for years, no complaints from me.

I think your pants are on fire.....:whistling:

raven11
12-05-2012, 17:50
I use windows only because its what I'm familiar with. Every time I try to use apple or Linux I just can't have the same usability that I have on a windows. I also play PC games and a good 90% are windows anyways

Steel Head
12-05-2012, 17:52
I like windows 7:wavey:

JerryVO
12-05-2012, 17:52
Been in IT for 15 years. With the exception of Vista and ME Microsoft has done a good job with windows. People complain but the have no idea what a technological accomplishment it is to have an os that works on any junk hardware people throw at it. I installed Win 8 the day it came out and hated it at first but after spending some time with it it is really growing on me. I can see the integration posibilities between PC, phone, and tablet.

It is always trendy to hate on the lead dog in just about anything so most people over hype any problems they hear about.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

badge315
12-05-2012, 17:54
Why yes, I look out of them all the time. :wavey:

Atlas
12-05-2012, 17:56
I'll agree with a software engineer friend who told me "Windows is the McDonalds of operating systems".

That said, Microsoft and Windows have contributed immeasurably to my ability to make a living over the past 20 years and for that I am truly grateful.

Jason D
12-05-2012, 17:59
Never in a million years would I buy another apple product.
If I couldn't get a Windows PC I'd go looking for an abacus.

MarcDW
12-05-2012, 18:03
OP: you know where to go to fix the printer, because you had to do it several times!!
With a Mac it works when you plug it in without downloading after a long search the driver. It will continue to work until it physically breaks.

You know why IT people don't like Macs?
Because their jobs would end when the hardware is set up and plugged in!!

TK-421
12-05-2012, 18:10
I've used one version or another of Windows since the Windows 3.0 days. All had their problems. Some were worse than others, XP and 7 are the best so far. This weekend reloaded Vista to one computer (Core 2 Duo with 4GB of RAM) to configure it as a media server (using Plex) and it runs very slow after loading all the MS updates to it (and before loading Plex to it). Vista is so slow that I'm now debating on going to Linux/XMBC on that computer.

Well, if that's the case, then I can't wait for when I get the money to upgrade my desktop to get Windows 7, or 8. Because my laptop seems plenty fast, with a Core 2 Duo and 4GB of RAM. Makes me excited for when I can upgrade. Because after getting used to my laptop with Vista, and granted, the startup time sucks big time, then Windows 7 on a good desktop must be great. :supergrin:

And no, that wasn't sarcasm, I was being serious. Because I know this isn't like super fast, but I figured it was decent. But if this is actually slow, then an upgrade will be awesome.

Adjuster
12-05-2012, 18:28
I am a Windows XP fan. I don't see how any other versions could be better, easier, more straightforward etc etc.. I don't even know why they continue to develop new versions.


/

zackwatt
12-05-2012, 18:28
Microsoft finally got it right with Windows 7 and the XBOX360..and Kinect.

I bashed them for years, but they hit it out of the park recently.

Dennis in MA
12-05-2012, 18:43
Nope. All apple now.

Although I think iOS6 isn't ewhat it was cracked up to be. My 5 is slower than my 4S was on iOS5. Especially responding to rapid keypad or button actions.

But I don't miss Windows at all.

M2 Carbine
12-05-2012, 18:57
I've had W7 for a good while now and I still think it sucks.

It seems to be a good operating system but almost everything I do is a big chore. Even simple things like Search becomes a big deal. Then the damned thing can't find files that I know are on the computer.

Then there's Explorer.
The Geeks couldn't leave it alone and simple to use. They added a bunch of crap like, libraries, pictures, home group, videos, etc, that I have no use for but can't get rid of.
Just leave the damned stuff simple for people that have no interest in relearning a new system every time Microsoft forces a new, usually full of bugs, version of Windows on you.

Just yesterday I wanted to check on "Restore". So I have to spend a half hour trying to find where the hell Restore is hidden now.

I'm not a computer Geek and I don't enjoy having to figure out where Microsoft hid stuff that I've been using for years.

Then there's the expense of having to buy a new printer and several expensive programs because they won't work in W7.


My two other computers still have XP and I have no problem with it or using it.

I don't even know why they continue to develop new versions.
So you have to buy the new crap.
Can't you imagine a bunch of Microsoft programmers sitting around saying, "No need to change this, it works fine".
It's more like, "Yeah this works fine but for job security lets change everything around so it looks like we are actually doing something useful".

NMGlocker
12-05-2012, 18:59
OP: you know where to go to fix the printer, because you had to do it several times!!
With a Mac it works when you plug it in without downloading after a long search the driver. It will continue to work until it physically breaks.

You know why IT people don't like Macs?
Because their jobs would end when the hardware is set up and plugged in!!
BS...
I'm currently running Macs (iMac and a MB-Air), but my Win XP and 7 machines were just as stable and "plug and play" as my Macs.
The difference I've noticed is, when something doesn't auto-run/auto-config on a Mac it's much more difficult to troubleshoot than Win machines. Apple likes to hide and/or disable the advanced settings.

Inebriated
12-05-2012, 19:03
I'm loving 8.

TK-421
12-05-2012, 19:03
Just yesterday I wanted to check on "Restore". So I have to spend a half hour trying to find where the hell Restore is hidden now.


If it's taking you that long to find it, then you should use google. Type in something simple like Restore for Windows 7, or something like that, and something in the first few links should tell you what you need to know.

Lowjiber
12-05-2012, 19:09
I was a beta tester for Windows 3, and used Windows in a professional environment from the original 1.0 version. I agree that Windows 7 is a very nice replacement for the ever popular XP.

However, Vista represented a sudden change in Microsoft's approach to security issues. In that regard, it was a total failure IMHO. Some may recall that one of Bill Gates' last official functions was the "grand unveiling" of Vista. Those same folks will likely remember that it crashed in front of the whole world of computer gurus...vision of things to come.

When I was in the market for a new laptop (typical battery issues), I wrote Microsoft an email that detailed my education, experience, etc. I, of course, told them that I had been one of their beta testers for 3.0. I asked a simple question: "When would Windows 7 become available." I also offered to be a beta tester again for 7.0 if it would prevent me from having to use Vista on a new machine.

About a month later, I received an email reply. After the usual crap about my interest in Windows 7, they proceeded to tell me that I "didn't understand Vista"...yadda, yadda, yadda.

I closed my laptop and told my wife that I'd be back. Off I went to the Apple store; returning with a MacBook Pro and all the toys. I'll never look back. Microsoft is so far behind the operating system curve that I doubt they'll ever catch up.

*ASH*
12-05-2012, 19:16
had pc's since 1994 , never had a problem i could not fix . and not any big problems at all .

i dislike apple because of their idiot fanboys , and their proprietary crap . and its way overpriced made in china typical junk

NeverMore1701
12-05-2012, 19:20
95/8, 2000, XP, and 7 were fine for me.

Detectorist
12-05-2012, 19:24
I've had W7 for a good while now and I still think it sucks.

It seems to be a good operating system but almost everything I do is a big chore. Even simple things like Search becomes a big deal. Then the damned thing can't find files that I know are on the computer.

Then there's Explorer.
The Geeks couldn't leave it alone and simple to use. They added a bunch of crap like, libraries, pictures, home group, videos, etc, that I have no use for but can't get rid of.
Just leave the damned stuff simple for people that have no interest in relearning a new system every time Microsoft forces a new, usually full of bugs, version of Windows on you.

Just yesterday I wanted to check on "Restore". So I have to spend a half hour trying to find where the hell Restore is hidden now.

I'm not a computer Geek and I don't enjoy having to figure out where Microsoft hid stuff that I've been using for years.

Then there's the expense of having to buy a new printer and several expensive programs because they won't work in W7.


My two other computers still have XP and I have no problem with it or using it.


So you have to buy the new crap.
Can't you imagine a bunch of Microsoft programmers sitting around saying, "No need to change this, it works fine".
It's more like, "Yeah this works fine but for job security lets change everything around so it looks like we are actually doing something useful".

If your 'search' doesn't find the files you know are on the computer, try making sure the search service is on.

Detectorist
12-05-2012, 19:26
I've used one version or another of Windows since the Windows 3.0 days. All had their problems. Some were worse than others, XP and 7 are the best so far. This weekend reloaded Vista to one computer (Core 2 Duo with 4GB of RAM) to configure it as a media server (using Plex) and it runs very slow after loading all the MS updates to it (and before loading Plex to it). Vista is so slow that I'm now debating on going to Linux/XMBC on that computer.

Make sure you turn off all the fancy crap on Vista. Do a google search on how to increase Vista speed.

Harper
12-05-2012, 19:32
I really like windows 7. I liked XP too but Windows 7 is really easy to use. I noticed after loading 7 onto my desktop pc I only had to manually install one driver, everything else it found for me. The search feature works the way I'd want one to. I'm sure programmers have all sorts of qualms with it but as someone who isn't into that sort of thing, Windows 7 works great. Also pc's are cheaper and already do everything I need.

Detectorist
12-05-2012, 19:34
Yes, I like Windows. 7 is very nice and has a great backup/restore function now.

podwich
12-05-2012, 19:37
I like 7. Haven't tried 8 yet. Don't like MacOS.

RedTop
12-05-2012, 19:39
In the words of Nick Burns... "It's the email that's stupid, not you, right?"

Snl - Nick Burns With Jennifer Aniston - Your Companys Computer Guy on Vimeo


Overall, Microsoft has been very good to me as an IT professional.

The Machinist
12-05-2012, 19:46
I'm using Windows 7 and love it to pieces. The best OS Microsoft ever made, by miles. However, Windows 8 has taken a turn for the absolute worst, and I refuse to use it. It's ugly as sin, and they thought it would be a good idea to hide functions from their users and make them search for it. Additionally, the Metro UI wants us to guess which blocks of plain text to click on in order to make things happen. It's an abomination. It'll be a happy day when Balmer is no longer at the helm.

Hef
12-05-2012, 19:46
I've had W7 for a good while now and I still think it sucks.

It seems to be a good operating system but almost everything I do is a big chore. Even simple things like Search becomes a big deal. Then the damned thing can't find files that I know are on the computer.

Then there's Explorer.
The Geeks couldn't leave it alone and simple to use. They added a bunch of crap like, libraries, pictures, home group, videos, etc, that I have no use for but can't get rid of.
Just leave the damned stuff simple for people that have no interest in relearning a new system every time Microsoft forces a new, usually full of bugs, version of Windows on you.

Just yesterday I wanted to check on "Restore". So I have to spend a half hour trying to find where the hell Restore is hidden now.

I'm not a computer Geek and I don't enjoy having to figure out where Microsoft hid stuff that I've been using for years.

Then there's the expense of having to buy a new printer and several expensive programs because they won't work in W7.


My two other computers still have XP and I have no problem with it or using it.


So you have to buy the new crap.
Can't you imagine a bunch of Microsoft programmers sitting around saying, "No need to change this, it works fine".
It's more like, "Yeah this works fine but for job security lets change everything around so it looks like we are actually doing something useful".

Windows 7 shines when you need to set up or troubleshoot a network of PC's and network devices. I have a small office network of 5 PC's and 2 printers and it made setup a snap, and have had no networking failures.

M2 Carbine
12-05-2012, 19:51
If your 'search' doesn't find the files you know are on the computer, try making sure the search service is on.
Thank you, you make my point.
What the hell is "search service" and why do I have to know?


I've been through this before,
"Oh, all you have to do to find this or that feature or make this feature work is stand on your head for a half hour and give your next newborn to Microsoft".


I just don't care to spend the time figuring out where Microsoft hid everything every time they decide to force another new/expensive Windows on us.


I know I'm ******* in the wind. I'm just stuck with whatever Microsoft makes us use.:upeyes:

FLIPPER 348
12-05-2012, 19:54
i dislike apple because of their idiot fanboys , and their proprietary crap . and its way overpriced made in china typical junk



It's obvious you have no real experience with Apple products. .....enjoy your PCs!

FLIPPER 348
12-05-2012, 19:57
I know I'm ******* in the wind. I'm just stuck with whatever Microsoft makes us use.:upeyes:


what an odd thing to say

M2 Carbine
12-05-2012, 19:59
Windows 7 shines when you need to set up or troubleshoot a network of PC's and network devices. I have a small office network of 5 PC's and 2 printers and it made setup a snap, and have had no networking failures.

I agree. The plug and play features are great.
Overall Win 7 seems like a good system.

*ASH*
12-05-2012, 20:02
It's obvious you have no real experience with Apple products. .....enjoy your PCs!

i am :supergrin:

Kilrain
12-05-2012, 20:03
It's obvious you have no real experience with Apple products. .....enjoy your PCs!

Looks like his fanboy comment found it's mark........:whistling:

FLIPPER 348
12-05-2012, 20:11
fanboy here, never owned anything but Apple

Kilrain
12-05-2012, 20:25
fanboy here, never owned anything but Apple

Well there you have it. Honestly, Apple makes a quality product, I just don't get them. I'm glad you enjoy Apple products but to say someone has no experience with them simply because they don't like or choose not to use them is specious at best.

:wavey:

mr00jimbo
12-05-2012, 20:59
My problem with Apple isn't just the OS necessarily it's the price.
Why should somebody pay 1000+ dollars for a laptop that seems to have the same specs as a 600 dollar Microsoft? What's different about it but the software? IIRC it's made by FoxCon who also makes Dell. They're not immune to cooked motherboards, screen issues, etc.

I don't get why Apples aren't cheaper. USA Support? So what, when I called Lenovo I got a guy in Atlanta, GA.

I did own an iMac. But I took it back to the store. You should have seen how pissed off the nerd at the store looked when I told him I didn't like it. I paid a lot for it, like 1,500. I went and paid 599 for a Toshiba that I ended up using for three years of carrying around, dropping, etc.

Something about the OS experience sucked.
I was poking around and it felt as if I couldn't do anything I wanted to. Say my printer went screwy. I wouldn't know how to get into the control panel and go to advanced settings to fix it. I don't think they want you to do that kind of stuff.
To me it seems like a car they claim to be super reliable, so they seal the hood so you can't open it to do your own maintenance.

And my Brother printer went screwy, not the computer. The actual printer's wireless card.

I do like my iPad. It's a nice design. I like how there can be a SIM card inserted into it for cell data (depending on models, mine does).

LL6
12-05-2012, 21:19
I had good luck with 98SE , XP and now 7. Got lucky and avoided ME and Vista. I have a feeling I will be using 7 until they stop supporting it.

raven11
12-05-2012, 21:28
My problem with Apple isn't just the OS necessarily it's the price.
Why should somebody pay 1000+ dollars for a laptop that seems to have the same specs as a 600 dollar Microsoft? What's different about it but the software? IIRC it's made by FoxCon who also makes Dell. They're not immune to cooked motherboards, screen issues, etc.




Apple fanboys like FLIPPER 348 believe that since they paid more for their PC , than the product has to be better quality regardless of the actual quality of the product

Harper
12-05-2012, 21:32
Thank you, you make my point.
What the hell is "search service" and why do I have to know?



You don't have to know if you never disabled it.

I would tell you how to fix it but I used search to find the options.

N4LP
12-05-2012, 21:50
had pc's since 1994 , never had a problem i could not fix . and not any big problems at all .

i dislike apple because of their idiot fanboys , and their proprietary crap . and its way overpriced made in china typical junk

Maybe I'm buying the wrong PCs, but the Macs I've bought, although made in China, are much higher quality than the PCs I've bought. The PCs are built as if they're meant to be disposable, while the Macs are built to last. I'm talking about laptops, my desktops are built from parts, including my Mac desktop, and they pretty much last forever.

The only PC laptop I've ever owned that was well built was an IBM Thinkpad, but those don't exist anymore - Lenovo's aren't the same quality. And to be fair the Thinkpad was the only laptop I've ever owned the cost as much as a Macbook.

OS superiority is subjective.

The Maggy
12-05-2012, 22:08
I liked XP, Vista was ok, I like windows 7.

They all accomplish the goals that I need them to and I started using windows back when Windows 95 was still new. It is what I am familiar and comfortable with.

FLIPPER 348
12-05-2012, 22:08
Apple fanboys like FLIPPER 348 believe that since they paid more for their PC , than the product has to be better quality regardless of the actual quality of the product


Actually no as i use Windows products at work daily and plainly see the vast differences. I am happy you PC users are happy with your products. I would never own one though.

The Maggy
12-05-2012, 22:10
Maybe I'm buying the wrong PCs, but the Macs I've bought, although made in China, are much higher quality than the PCs I've bought. The PCs are built as if they're meant to be disposable, while the Macs are built to last. I'm talking about laptops, my desktops are built from parts, including my Mac desktop, and they pretty much last forever.

The only PC laptop I've ever owned that was well built was an IBM Thinkpad, but those don't exist anymore - Lenovo's aren't the same quality. And to be fair the Thinkpad was the only laptop I've ever owned the cost as much as a Macbook.

OS superiority is subjective.

Sony and Samsung moved away from the cheap plastic cases. A complaint that I always had against HP was that they charged an arm and a leg for their products but they all looked like fisher price toys.

686Owner
12-05-2012, 22:27
Windows XP was the last windows OS that I "liked." In Vista, and now in Windows 7, it seems that they are trying to hide a bunch of the stuff that I used to use. I ran Windows 8 Beta for a while and like what they were trying to do, but nothing seemed to work like it was supposed to (I know it was a beta, but it was a later beta), and I didn't like getting used to even more new stuff.

I bought a MacBook Pro last year to give them a shot even though I spent years complaining about Apple. I have to say I really like it. The trackpad is good enough that I've never used a mouse with it. It's much quieter and thinner than my wife's HP. I've not had as many problems with it not sleeping when the lid is closed, turning on with the lid closed, draining the battery while sleeping etc that our other laptops have had. The screen is much better and can be seen nearly 180 degrees without affecting picture quality. The cord will come unplugged if pulled on instead of breaking off at the motherboard like other laptops etc.

Yes, I paid a premium for it, but it was worth it to me. I think when my wife is due for another laptop I will urge her to get a Mac. It will simplify file transfers between computers, and it will be easier for her to keep up with her calendar, contacts etc as it will automatically sync with her iPhone.

captainstormy
12-06-2012, 00:41
I've never really been an OS snob. They all have good and bad points about them. Working in IT, I not only have to be able to use Windows, OSX, UNIX and Linux but others as well such as BSD, Solaris and various forms of mainframes.

Windows 7 is fairly nice. I've not put my hands on 8 so I can't really say about it. XP was okay, but its been showing its age for several years now.

My computers run Linux for what its worth. Its by far my favorite operating system, but I don't dislike any of them per say.

Each operating system has its own unique sets of headaches.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

mnglocker
12-06-2012, 01:19
Windows 8 will change a ton of things. There are differences in security that will make the machines, particularly ones built for W8 and especially W8pro and Enterprise editions.

Imagine being able to take your entire OS and files with you on a thumb drive and plug it into any PC and have it run smooth?

That's just one little thing. There's much more too it. We're at a point where there's sooooooooooooo many lines of code that are old that we're hitting the point where new file systems and protocols for programming are coming around that will reduce the lines of code by 90%, decreasing the work load on processors, allowing for many more bigger more powerful programs to be run on the same hardware.

airmotive
12-06-2012, 05:12
OP: you know where to go to fix the printer, because you had to do it several times!!
With a Mac it works when you plug it in without downloading after a long search the driver. It will continue to work until it physically breaks.

You know why IT people don't like Macs?
Because their jobs would end when the hardware is set up and plugged in!!

My wife would disagree with you. (iMac 27', Macbook Pro, iPad3, iPad mini and iPhone5) cannot get her iMac to print to our network printer. She has to save the document to a thumb drive and plug it into my (homebuilt) PC running W7, or save it to iCloud and fire up her Macbook if the document is a macadoodle-only file. (she was a network administrator in the 90s...so she's got a little time behind a keyboard).

All her iStuff is pretty. But both the iMac and book are in for repairs at least once a year. (iMac runs hot as hell...which I think is a big part of the issue. Thunderbolt port stopped working in October.).
My stuff? I've been building my own PCs since 1997 and never had anything major fail. If there's a problem, I swap out parts...cheap and easy. But all my part swapping so far has been to upgrade (which is another thing she can't do).

Win7 is pretty much spot on for PC users. MS has lost its mind with W8. It's the answer to the question NOBODY was asking.

MarcDW
12-06-2012, 05:36
My wife would disagree with you. (iMac 27', Macbook Pro, iPad3, iPad mini and iPhone5) cannot get her iMac to print to our network printer. ...

If you would have a AIRPORT or TIME CAPSULE it would work without any problem.
You must have a Linksys or D-Link router, they don't follow the apple protocol.
I have also a Apple TV and can show form my iPhone or MacBook any videos from those devices by just a few clicks.

Fear Night
12-06-2012, 05:42
I like Windows but I don't have much of a choice since I do a lot of PC gaming. I have an iPhone so I do like iOS as a mobile OS. Never owned a Mac OS computer.

My laptop runs Linux (Fedora) and our servers at work are mostly all running on Solaris. My work PC is also Windows 7.

Works for me.

johnd
12-06-2012, 05:44
Love it! ..the alternative is what was before...."window" ( as in 1)

sheriff733
12-06-2012, 06:47
I used to love Windows.

Until I used a Mac.

Now, it's Mac or nothing in my house.

sbhaven
12-06-2012, 06:48
Make sure you turn off all the fancy crap on Vista. Do a google search on how to increase Vista speed.
Already done that. But the point is one shouldn't have to, and that was one of the biggest failings with Vista. The user had to disable all sorts of services to get Vista to run as good as XP does.

What made it worse was this particular computer was a top of the line Dell work station computer that only shipped with with Vista at the time.

Microsoft flopped with ME and Vista. It remains to be seen if Windows 8 will be an interim OS like ME and Vista were.

mgs
12-06-2012, 07:51
XP and 7 work for me......Mac is a PITA. Have both at work. We have three 17" Toshiba's with Windows 7 at home and they run perfect. MY XP machine/server is a huge video editor with Raid 5.....has run forever and still using it.

Z71bill
12-06-2012, 08:06
Made me think of the days when you turned the PC on - waited until the :/ (or whatever it was ) came up and you

Put in the DOS boot disk (5.25" floppy) hit return - waited :rofl:

Then loaded Lotus 123 :upeyes:

Computer did not even have a hard drive. :cool:

I also walked 10 miles to school in the snow and studied by candle light. :yawn:

airmotive
12-06-2012, 09:31
If you would have a AIRPORT or TIME CAPSULE it would work without any problem.
You must have a Linksys or D-Link router, they don't follow the apple protocol.
I have also a Apple TV and can show form my iPhone or MacBook any videos from those devices by just a few clicks.

Ubiquiti Air Router (necessitated by our WiMax ISP).
Her MacBook prints fine.

But your response points to the exact complaint...plug in a Win7 machine and it works. Plug in an iMac, and then go buy a bunch of other Mac stuff in order to get it to do what you need it to do.
Her problem, not mine.:supergrin:

In the end, I compare Mac and pc like this:
PC is a 9mm Luger.
Mac is a 9mm Makarov.

jason10mm
12-06-2012, 09:48
I just bought a laptop with Win8. Pretty "meh" on the tile/metro thing, it might be nice for touchscreens but it is a lot of work for a mouse. The desktop screen is better but I miss the start button and it seems like the only way to get out of some apps/programs is to hit the windows button which takes me to the metro screen, then click the desktop tile again.

Still in the early stages of getting used to it though. Alas my work computer is win7 so I'll have to be bilingual. Looking forward to the surface pro though, and the MS mobile phones. If they can lure lots of the app developers over I can finally dump my iphone/ipad and save lots of $$$.

Kilrain
12-06-2012, 10:11
I just bought a laptop with Win8. Pretty "meh" on the tile/metro thing, it might be nice for touchscreens but it is a lot of work for a mouse. The desktop screen is better but I miss the start button and it seems like the only way to get out of some apps/programs is to hit the windows button which takes me to the metro screen, then click the desktop tile again.

Still in the early stages of getting used to it though. Alas my work computer is win7 so I'll have to be bilingual. Looking forward to the surface pro though, and the MS mobile phones. If they can lure lots of the app developers over I can finally dump my iphone/ipad and save lots of $$$.

Installing this will allow you to customize Win 8 how you want. (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/)

It works great. I really like Win 8 but Microsoft screwed up by not allowing the tile interface to be turned off or better controlled for desktop users. It is impractical for many traditional desktop functions.

NMGlocker
12-06-2012, 10:23
If you would have a AIRPORT or TIME CAPSULE it would work without any problem.
You must have a Linksys or D-Link router, they don't follow the apple protocol.
Interesting that you bring this subject up.
I recently switched to Mac (iMac and MBAir).
Neither one of them would play nicely with a Seagate NAS (Time Machine compatible) attached to a top of the line consumer grade Belkin router.
My wifes Win7 laptop and my dual boot Win7/Ubuntu 12.10 laptop had no issues connecting to the router or the NAS.
Switched to an Apple Time Capsule.
iMac connected and TM worked straight out of the box.
Cool... this "just works" stuff is nice.
Then the MBAir wouldn't do jack squat, couldn't even connect WiFi much less do a TM backup.
No big deal, I've manually setup routers and NAS for years.
All I need to do is plug in and admin the router... nope, can't do that. Ok how about Airport Utility... nope, can't access any advanced settings. Ok, stumble around plugging and unplugging, power on, power off, setup, over and over.
WTF? It finally recognized it and everything works like the previous 3 hours of failures never happened?
That gives me a lot of confidence in "it just works" and the integrity and reliability of my backups.
So color me unimpressed with Apple, OSX and "it just works".
If I had it to do all over again I'd buy a nice 27" all in one running Ubuntu 12.04 for the family machine and a high end Samsung or Lenovo ultrabook dual booting Win7/Ubuntu 12.10 for my use.

My Apple hardware is nice, the trackpad gestures are awesome but my user experience with OSX and supposed Mac compatible peripherals has been mediocre at best.
I don't regret my purchases, but when it comes time to replace them I doubt I'll be darkening the doors of the Apple store.

Give me a nice Win7 and/or Ubuntu 12.04 machine and I'll be happy.
Win7 for business applications, games and home networking.
Ubuntu for accessing the Internet (especially "hot spot" access while traveling) or exploring files/programs from people whose security habits I don't trust.
Best of both worlds, the universal compatibility of Win7 (especially Office) and the security of Linux when it's needed.

captainstormy
12-06-2012, 12:26
they don't follow the apple protocol.

It isn't that other companies don't follow protocol, it's that apple doesn't follow protocol and likes to reinvent the wheel and put an apple sticker on it every time they need to do anything.

That said, if you do use all apple equipment it usually does work well. But I don't think that's practical. For your home sure. However you can't possibly expect every hotel, coffee shop or friends house you visit to have apple routers.

I see it all the time. My fiancee's family are all MAC people. For the most part things work fine when they travel but it isn't uncommon for one or more of them to have problems with wifi connectivity while traveling.

Course sometimes it isn't an actual technical problem and it's just Apple trying to get more money from people. I used to run my network in as N only mode, but my Fiancee's Macbook (older 2006 model) wouldn't connect to my network, it could see it but would never connect.

I couldn't figure it out and neither could she. She took it to the Apple store and they told her that when her Macbook was sold, N connectivity was considered a premium and she would have to pay to unlock that functionality. It would be unlocked for free if she bought the apple router.

They actually had the little cards you could buy to unlock the wireless N right next to the gift cards and iTunes cards.

That was just apple trying to make more money, obviously her wireless card works for N, because it could detect my network. They just had a switch in the software to not let it connect unless it was unlocked.

Not trying to make an apple bashing post per say, but things like that are a lot of the reason that Apples stuff does just work together, but not well with other things. If she had bought an Apple router instead of using my older G only Linksys after I upgraded neither of us would have ever known that was an issue.

MarcDW
12-06-2012, 14:33
Not working for Apple!
That they charge for something like this is rare.
However, on the good side your girlfriends MacBook works for her now 6 years.
Wonder how many laptop most people with WIN went through in this time??
How much did these people pay for anti virus and other things???
When you call Mac tech support, unlike with MS you are connected to a person without giving first you CC.

mo.glocker
12-06-2012, 14:35
I'm using Windows 7 and love it to pieces. The best OS Microsoft ever made, by miles. However, Windows 8 has taken a turn for the absolute worst, and I refuse to use it. It's ugly as sin, and they thought it would be a good idea to hide functions from their users and make them search for it. Additionally, the Metro UI wants us to guess which blocks of plain text to click on in order to make things happen. It's an abomination. It'll be a happy day when Balmer is no longer at the helm.
THIS!!,windows 8 sucks major donkey balls,it may be the end for m-soft,or at least be another vista:whistling:

captainstormy
12-06-2012, 14:45
Not working for Apple!
That they charge for something like this is rare.
However, on the good side your girlfriends MacBook works for her now 6 years.
Wonder how many laptop most people with WIN went through in this time??
How much did these people pay for anti virus and other things???
When you call Mac tech support, unlike with MS you are connected to a person without giving first you CC.

It still works, It's beaten up and the CDROM dosen't work any more but overall it still works pretty well.

I'm not an apple hater, Just saying that alot of the reason they don't play well with others is their own doing.

Windows and Linux are much better in that reguard.

N4LP
12-06-2012, 14:49
All her iStuff is pretty. But both the iMac and book are in for repairs at least once a year. (iMac runs hot as hell...which I think is a big part of the issue. Thunderbolt port stopped working in October.).
My stuff? I've been building my own PCs since 1997 and never had anything major fail. If there's a problem, I swap out parts...cheap and easy. But all my part swapping so far has been to upgrade (which is another thing she can't do).

You can build your own Mac - it's slightly more involved than building a PC, but only slightly. I've had a home built "Hackintosh" for years now. For obvious reasons it's just as reliable as any home built PC.

TK-421
12-06-2012, 14:59
I just bought a laptop with Win8. Pretty "meh" on the tile/metro thing, it might be nice for touchscreens but it is a lot of work for a mouse. The desktop screen is better but I miss the start button and it seems like the only way to get out of some apps/programs is to hit the windows button which takes me to the metro screen, then click the desktop tile again.

Still in the early stages of getting used to it though. Alas my work computer is win7 so I'll have to be bilingual. Looking forward to the surface pro though, and the MS mobile phones. If they can lure lots of the app developers over I can finally dump my iphone/ipad and save lots of $$$.

Hmm, sounds like I should just stick with Windows 7 then. Thanks for the heads up. When I want an OS for my desktop, I want a desktop OS, not a tablet OS.

TK-421
12-06-2012, 15:06
However, on the good side your girlfriends MacBook works for her now 6 years.
Wonder how many laptop most people with WIN went through in this time??
[quote]

A windows laptop will last 6 years if you take care of it. My mom's laptop is six or seven years old.

[quote]
How much did these people pay for anti virus and other things???

The people who know what they're doing never pay for the anti-virus programs. I've been using computers for about 17-18 years now. Never once have I spent a single penny on anti-virus programs.


When you call Mac tech support, unlike with MS you are connected to a person without giving first you CC.

The people who know what they're doing don't call up MS tech support, they use google.

You're trying to compare inexperienced PC users with experienced Mac users. That's apples and oranges. Try comparing experienced PC users with experienced Mac users.

There is a reason Windows is the most common OS. If Mac was so much better, don't you think they'd reign supreme?

Gallium
12-06-2012, 15:50
If your 'search' doesn't find the files you know are on the computer, try making sure the search service is on.



The files (folders, drives, etc) have to be indexed to properly show up in a search - well, that is my experience. I am here to learn, and for the beatings. :)

Ftttu
12-06-2012, 15:51
I went Mac the very day or very next day Windows 8 was released. I've been a loyal Windows user since Windows For Work Groups 3.11 on my Packard-Bell 468 DX II. I was at the midnight releases of 95 and 98, and purchased Millennium the next morning of its release. I then went 2000 a very short time after that. I eventually went through years of XP, Vista and 7, but Windows has lost its luster after they decided it needed to be a cross platform OS for desktops/laptops/tablets. I want Windows to have been another desktop/laptop OS, but those appear to be the days of old. Also, going to Mac revitalized my home computer hobby since there is new stuff to learn. Also, it works seamlessly with my iPhones, iPad, iPods, and Apple TV.

TK-421
12-06-2012, 16:00
I also walked 10 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways, because my parents couldn't afford a dinosaur for me to ride, and studied by candle light. :yawn:

:tongueout:

Detectorist
12-06-2012, 16:09
Already done that. But the point is one shouldn't have to, and that was one of the biggest failings with Vista. The user had to disable all sorts of services to get Vista to run as good as XP does.

What made it worse was this particular computer was a top of the line Dell work station computer that only shipped with with Vista at the time.

Microsoft flopped with ME and Vista. It remains to be seen if Windows 8 will be an interim OS like ME and Vista were.

I sort of agree with you. Which Dell desktop did you get?

voyager4520
12-06-2012, 16:14
I like Windows. Yeah it has its bugs and vulnerabilities but that's what you'd expect from the most popular operating system.

I've never tried Windows 8 but I have an Xbox 360 and its operating system looks pretty similar, if that's what Windows 8 is like it's going to be the biggest flop in Microsoft history.

NMGlocker
12-06-2012, 16:15
That was just apple trying to make more money, obviously her wireless card works for N, because it could detect my network. They just had a switch in the software to not let it connect unless it was unlocked.

Not trying to make an apple bashing post per say, but things like that are a lot of the reason that Apples stuff does just work together, but not well with other things. If she had bought an Apple router instead of using my older G only Linksys after I upgraded neither of us would have ever known that was an issue.
While we're on this subject...
Time Machine backups to non-Apple branded NAS are notoriously slow and unreliable.
The Apple-care "fix"... upgrade (aka: purchase) to OSX Server.
Or you can buy the Apple Time Capsule and backup at full speed.
:upeyes:

NMGlocker
12-06-2012, 16:25
Not working for Apple!
That they charge for something like this is rare.
However, on the good side your girlfriends MacBook works for her now 6 years.
Wonder how many laptop most people with WIN went through in this time??
How much did these people pay for anti virus and other things???
When you call Mac tech support, unlike with MS you are connected to a person without giving first you CC.
I've had business grade IBM Thinkpads last 6 years with no problems.

Microsoft Security Essentials... free.
Prior to MSE, AVG or Avast... free.

IBM business tech support... US based with overnight onsite techs.

For the price of a Macbook Pro with Apple-Care I can have a comparably equipped business grade Lenovo with US onsite tech support.

btw: I'm typing this post on a 3 year old Wal-Mart Dell running Ubuntu 12.10 ($600 new and is my pseudo desktop computer), my work laptop is a brand new Win7 Lenovo and my personal laptop is a 2012 Macbook Air. The family room computer is a 21" iMac.
I'm an equal opportunity computer user and owe no allegiance to any particular byte of silicon.

Drain You
12-06-2012, 17:52
I hate Windows from the burning pit of my nauseated stomach.
Seriously.


Macs are crap too but just cost more and do less. I enjoy
having a platform lets me get online and run the programs that competent programmers have made for Windows.

Mainly I just use my pc for surfing/photoshopping and video game emulation. Things that are either harder, don't work, or are too expensive on a tablet.

Restless28
12-06-2012, 19:35
The commercials for Windows latest crap software are uninspiring and the Windows phones appear to be a danger for epileptics.

Apple. It's simple. It works.

Kilrain
12-06-2012, 19:57
The commercials for Windows latest crap software are uninspiring and the Windows phones appear to be a danger for epileptics.

Apple. It's simple. It works.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4177339038_a0b95132c1.jpg

FLIPPER 348
12-06-2012, 20:03
I'm quite happy being an Apple fanboy! Apple, it's a better product.

Kilrain
12-06-2012, 20:05
I'm quite happy being an Apple fanboy! Apple, it's a better product.

If it makes you feel better............:wavey:

FLIPPER 348
12-06-2012, 20:13
It does, thanks! Hey, there is a reason everyone compares their products to Apple and not each others'.

Jbar4Ranch
12-06-2012, 21:13
Ha! Wait until you see W8, its like starting all over.

You get used to it, but you end up wondering why.
I had to google how to turn the darn thing off.

I also had to buy a new printer & scanner, because my "old" ones aren't compatible with W8. (2007 vintage)

My last OS was Vista and it has worked fine for 5+ years. W8 sucks.

Trapped_in_Kali
12-06-2012, 22:14
I have only used Windows & never had a problem I couldn't fix (no, I'm not an IT guy or geek).
I won't go into all the reasons I wouldn't buy Apple but one is that I hate the Apple Fan-Boy KoolAid drinkers that always pop up in every OS thread in every Forum screaming that no Apple product has ever had any problem and every Microsoft product they have ever seen or heard of blew up and left a smoking crater in the first 10 seconds of being turned on.

TK-421
12-06-2012, 22:25
It does, thanks! Hey, there is a reason everyone compares their products to Apple and not each others'.

It's so we can laugh at how our stuff is exactly the same, if not better, other than the name and logo, at half the price. :tongueout:

Don't know how accurate/recent it is, but it makes me chuckle.

I get the feeling it's a few years old though, that price for the Mac seems awfully inflated. But you get the basic gist.

http://img3.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/mac-vs-pc-%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0-125943.jpeg

nathanours
12-06-2012, 22:37
I've used windows for years and love it. It has been quick, reliable, and secure. The only two apple products I've owned have been junk.

TK-421
12-06-2012, 22:40
Apple is good for their iPod, but I wish iTunes actually evened out the volume between songs. I have the option checked off, but it still isn't very even in between songs, and I still have to fiddle with the volume nob.

Kilrain
12-06-2012, 22:41
The only two apple products I've owned have been junk.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/unpossible.jpg

:supergrin:

nathanours
12-06-2012, 22:53
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/unpossible.jpg

:supergrin:


Well actually the first was an ipod shuffle, that kept glitching even when brand new. It was one of the ones without a screen, that looked like a little white usb stick. I had roughly 100 songs on it that played at first. After a while though (this is without syncing or anything) it would only play about 10 of them. Yes they were in the right format, yes they were of a file size that could all fit on the device, and yes they worked just fine initially. Of course it was "just fine" according to the apple tech, and they wouldn't replace it.

My second adventure into the world of apple was with the then new iPhone 3GS. They had poor QC and the back where you plugged in the charging cable was too tight so after a few times of plugging it in the cheap plastic back cracked up the middle for an inch or so. They replaced it with a refurbished one. A couple weeks later the speaker stopped working completely. They replaced it again with another refurbished one. A few months later the home button became completely unresponsive. Apple determined it wasn't my fault, but even though I had owned it less than a year they had shipped it to AT&T over a year ago so I was out of warranty and couldn't get it replaced.

I'll never buy another cr-apple product again. What trash.

airmotive
12-07-2012, 04:14
I am here to learn, and for the beatings. :)

A good Catholic school boy....

Ralff
12-07-2012, 05:57
There's nothing wrong with Windows. I find that 9 times out of 10, it's the user that is the problem. If you don't know what you're doing, you may be better off with a Mac.

sbhaven
12-07-2012, 07:11
I sort of agree with you. Which Dell desktop did you get?
It was a Dell OptiPlex 755 shipped on bought in November of 2007. It had (at the time) a Intel Q6600 2.4 processor, 4GB of RAM, 2 x 320GB SATA drives and came preloaded with Vista. The computer ran slow from day one, even after tweaking it. After several years it was relegated to a secondary backup computer that is infrequently used. About two years ago, I pulled the Q6600 processor and put it into my still much used home built Windows XP machine (built in 2006), which was initially configured with a Core 2 Duo E6700 processor. Put the E6700 processor into the OptiPlex and it currently sits mostly unused at the moment even though I'm experimenting with using it as a Plex media server for my Roku's.

At the end of the day as good or bad as Windows is, it currently is the overwhelming dominant OS in the PC market place, at least according to Netmarketshare.com (http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8).

Operating System - Total Market Share
Windows: 81.75%
iOS: 6.36%
Mac: 6.22%
Android: 2.79%
Linux: 1.28%
Java ME: 0.78%
BlackBerry: 0.17%
Symbian: 0.14%
Windows Phone: 0.10%
Kindle: 0.05%
Playstation: 0.01%
Bada: 0.01%
Samsung: 0.01%
Windows Mobile: 0.01%
BREW: 0.00%

And according to Statowl.com (http://www.statowl.com/operating_system_market_share_by_os_version.php?1=1&timeframe=last_6&interval=month&chart_id=4&fltr_br=&fltr_os=&fltr_se=&fltr_cn=&limit%5B%5D=windows) the breakdown for Windows OS, which they indicate is at 84.98% of the OS market, is as follows...
Windows 7: 54.92%
Windows XP: 31.68%
Windows Vista: 12.19%
Windows Server 2003: 0.88%

Smithers
12-07-2012, 14:48
I have been using Windows 7 for years. XP and Vista had their bugs. 7 is really nice to use. I also like the layout of the Start button, the Control Panel, etc.
I have an iPad which is not bad, but I don't like the Apple OSX software layout.
With Windows, if something like my wireless printer quits working, I know where to go.

So far, I am on my 2nd Windows 7 laptop (1st Toshiba lasted 3 years of hard use and abuse). It's fast, it's secure, it works.

People always ***** about Windows but to me honest I really enjoy it. I have heard Windows 8 is a disaster though, but 7 seems great.

You?

I've used all versions since 3.1 and currently have XP and
Win7.

I love them both. You just have to be aware of what's going on and also protect yourself.

Glock20 10mm
12-07-2012, 15:55
Hate cleaning them but enjoy looking out them!

Glock20 10mm
12-07-2012, 16:08
To answer the OP's question... no, for me using Windows is akin to having teeth pulled without the benefit of Novocain. It always feels like I have to take extra steps to get simple things done in Windows. I hate being asked "are you sure you want to perform that action?". YES DAMN IT I AM SURE! And using Windows feels like I am fighting the system in order to get what I want done, done.

I only use Windows at work because I have two applications I need Windows for. And when I do run Windows it's in a VMWare instance with no network connection outside the intranet. Fortunately for me I only have to run Windows once a month for two-three days while I am setting up reading devices for utility reads. Otherwise everything I need to get my job done is provided for with my OpenSuSE Linux work station, and if it's not provided I can easily write an application for the need and not have to worry about MS API's and so forth, yes, programming for Linux is easier in my opinion too.

The beauty of Linux is I can quickly and easily without adding third party applications, tweak my system to work for me. The computer is set up to function how I think. It's hard to describe really but everything I do has a flow to it. And the Linux computer works within my flow parameters and doesn't fight me, query me or challenge me like Windows machines are notorious for doing. The best part is I don't have to worry about license validations, long silly registration keys or paying for it for that matter.

What I get for free, and the lack of hassle that comes with it... it's worth it too me. I am not a gamer really. Don't have time to really play games. So that's irrelevant to me. And if I was a gamer then I would purchase a system that was dedicated to that function.

The bottom line every system has it's pro's and con's. We have to decide which ones we are willing to live with. The beauty of the Open Source option is, if I don't like one offering I can easily move to another without losing a ton of $$$ in the process.

Forgot to mention... I don't have to worry about malware either. Contrary to what some will say, Linux is pretty well hardened against the issues Windows and apparently Macintosh are up against. Can they be infected? Sure, but it takes some serious work to do so.

ND40oz
12-07-2012, 16:34
If you would have a AIRPORT or TIME CAPSULE it would work without any problem.
You must have a Linksys or D-Link router, they don't follow the apple protocol.
I have also a Apple TV and can show form my iPhone or MacBook any videos from those devices by just a few clicks.

I have a Time Capsule to back up my wife's MBP and my MBA. Unfortunately they've locked it down so much I'm finally going to have to bite the bullet and go back to another router and just use it as a wireless AP.

Local DNS - it doesn't just work, in fact half of my boxes never register with its built in DNS server, plus it doesn't do reverse DNS at all.

DHCP - no way to specify the DNS servers it hands out to clients or any normal DHCP settings for that matter, your stuck just using it as your DNS server, so you can't bring up your own DNS server that actually works to fix its broken implementation.

External DNS - so, you figure you'll just use the built in DNS server of the time capsule and forward the requests to your internal DNS server so that things work correctly, that's a no go, you can only have external IPs listed for the Time Capsules DNS servers.

Internal Static IPs - no where to put them into the Time Capsule so that they at least register with internal DNS, your only option is reserving a dhcp address for things you want to have statics.

Apples problem is you have to work around their "It just works", the hardware is great, OSX is decent, but it doesn't just work and when it doesn't, it's next to impossible to fix their broken implementation.

arizona_andy
12-07-2012, 16:58
Apple, it's a better product.

Only in your mind, sadly... PCs are simply better in every way. First, you get to choose whatever kind of case you want. Bright red? Got it. Black with perhaps some glowing blue fans? Sure. Brushed aluminum? Yup. Whatever you want.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146067

Yes, even some random company named "NZXT" is capable of designing a case that makes any Mac look like its from 1990.

Second, they are just as stable as anything else out there. Don't buy the hype that Macs don't crash or can't get malware, it's simply not true. My Windows machines run for months on end with no reboot -- even my Vista machine, which has spent years with a processor running at nearly double the rated speed. NO crashes. In my opinion, if your Windows PC crashes often (or at all), you have faulty hardware (very rare), and not a Windows-specific issue, *or* you have driver issues which again are very rare. Windows supports millions of hardware configurations & devices, unlike Mac OS, and 99.99% of the time it supports them flawlessly.

Third, Windows PCs are actually fairly-priced. I have built systems that eat Mac Pros for lunch for less than half the price. The PC I am typing this on is capable of running at over 5.0 GHz (although *only* 4.8 GHz at the moment.) Didn't know that processors could run that fast? They can, 100% stable, too. But even with $10k you can't buy a Mac that is setup to run 5.0 GHz.

Lastly, I consider any OS without a Windows-style taskbar to be useless. The traditional Windows taskbar is the equivalent of the round wheel -- anything else is simply inferior. There is no faster way to switch between multiple windows, especially when more than one of the same program is running.

The Apple products all look the same, simple, plain, boring. No life, no style and no imagination. Extreme minimalism, which means bland. Reminds me of a room full of Japanese businessmen in their grey suits. And for double the price of something else that's better in every way... :rofl:

So.. what did you say again? Oh, let me fix that for you: PCs, it's a better product.

/rant off

Detectorist
12-07-2012, 17:21
It was a Dell OptiPlex 755 shipped on bought in November of 2007. It had (at the time) a Intel Q6600 2.4 processor, 4GB of RAM, 2 x 320GB SATA drives and came preloaded with Vista. The computer ran slow from day one, even after tweaking it. After several years it was relegated to a secondary backup computer that is infrequently used. About two years ago, I pulled the Q6600 processor and put it into my still much used home built Windows XP machine (built in 2006), which was initially configured with a Core 2 Duo E6700 processor. Put the E6700 processor into the OptiPlex and it currently sits mostly unused at the moment even though I'm experimenting with using it as a Plex media server for my Roku's.

At the end of the day as good or bad as Windows is, it currently is the overwhelming dominant OS in the PC market place, at least according to Netmarketshare.com (http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8).

Operating System - Total Market Share
Windows: 81.75%
iOS: 6.36%
Mac: 6.22%
Android: 2.79%
Linux: 1.28%
Java ME: 0.78%
BlackBerry: 0.17%
Symbian: 0.14%
Windows Phone: 0.10%
Kindle: 0.05%
Playstation: 0.01%
Bada: 0.01%
Samsung: 0.01%
Windows Mobile: 0.01%
BREW: 0.00%

And according to Statowl.com (http://www.statowl.com/operating_system_market_share_by_os_version.php?1=1&timeframe=last_6&interval=month&chart_id=4&fltr_br=&fltr_os=&fltr_se=&fltr_cn=&limit%5B%5D=windows) the breakdown for Windows OS, which they indicate is at 84.98% of the OS market, is as follows...
Windows 7: 54.92%
Windows XP: 31.68%
Windows Vista: 12.19%
Windows Server 2003: 0.88%

I remember when they came out. That's an awesome business computer. It came with a lifetime tech support warranty. I'm surprised you say it runs slow. We had one in the test lab and it was lightening fast.

countrygun
12-07-2012, 17:36
I just bought a laptop with Win8. Pretty "meh" on the tile/metro thing, it might be nice for touchscreens but it is a lot of work for a mouse. The desktop screen is better but I miss the start button and it seems like the only way to get out of some apps/programs is to hit the windows button which takes me to the metro screen, then click the desktop tile again.

Still in the early stages of getting used to it though. Alas my work computer is win7 so I'll have to be bilingual. Looking forward to the surface pro though, and the MS mobile phones. If they can lure lots of the app developers over I can finally dump my iphone/ipad and save lots of $$$.


I just got a new laptop/notebook yesterday and am learning the "Joys" of W8:upeyes:

I am not terribly resistant to change and improvements IF it leads to improvement.

There is an upside in that you can toggle to a desktop mode and avoid a bunch of their "improvements".

I swear the more they move to icons and supposed "intuitive" controls the further they move from an intellectual approach. Yes I am old fashioned but really I don't feel that I want a lobotomy so the "pretty pictures" make more sense than the English language.

Granted it's a Gateway that the wife early Xmas gifted me with, but Cheezits Crisp what few instructions that came with it left me with hours of effing around and trial and error. OK you want me to point at the pictures, fine, just give me a written key because my experience in learning skills involves reading not pointing at pictures.

arizona_andy
12-07-2012, 17:36
The beauty of the Open Source option is, if I don't like one offering I can easily move to another without losing a ton of $$$ in the process.


Unfortunately, when professionals need real work to get done the open source options just don't cut the mustard. The comparison of Inkscape vs Adobe Illustrator, Blender vs Autodesk 3DS MAX, and OpenOffice vs MS Office really presents no choice -- the open source options are woefully inadequate.

As for running servers, Linux is fantastic. Some of my servers have had uptimes measured in years, and none have ever suffered security breaches. It is a fantastic server OS.

So, to sum it up: If you're a content creator, Windows all the way without a doubt. If you're setting up servers, then it's Linux (or FreeBSD.) Where does that leave the Macs...? In a place where only silly people who enjoy wasting money go.

FLIPPER 348
12-07-2012, 17:40
So.. what did you say again? Oh, let me fix that for you: PCs, it's a better product.

/rant off



um, no

VC-Racing
12-07-2012, 18:05
My Dell XP Desktop is 9 yrs old, my Gateway XP laptop is 7 yrs old . I just replaced the HD( HDD for my DT and a SSD for my LT) and upgraded the memory in both within the past 6 months, because I'm gonna run XP til MS stops supporting it (2014 IIRC) because my LT has all the diagnostic and service software I use to do my auto repairs and tuning , however if I can find a good deal on some Win 7 hardware (DT / LT), I might pull the trigger early but until then its XP for me .

Glock20 10mm
12-07-2012, 18:06
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz30ffW2xM1qewacoo1_500.png

TK-421
12-07-2012, 18:28
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz30ffW2xM1qewacoo1_500.png

It's the opposite way for me. :tongueout:

sputnik767
12-07-2012, 18:54
I have been using Windows 7 for years. XP and Vista had their bugs. 7 is really nice to use. I also like the layout of the Start button, the Control Panel, etc.
I have an iPad which is not bad, but I don't like the Apple OSX software layout.
With Windows, if something like my wireless printer quits working, I know where to go.

So far, I am on my 2nd Windows 7 laptop (1st Toshiba lasted 3 years of hard use and abuse). It's fast, it's secure, it works.

People always ***** about Windows but to me honest I really enjoy it. I have heard Windows 8 is a disaster though, but 7 seems great.

You?

I have both Windows and Mac, and they both have their good and not-so-good points. However, if you told me that I have to pick one system and stick with it for the rest of my life, I would pick Windows hands down. Macs are very nice, but with Windows I can do a whole lot more. However, if you are like the typical computer user who needs email, facebook, and internet browsing, and like to download "free" screensavers and games, I'd say you need a mac. Because those are the people that keep companies like Geek Squad in business.

sputnik767
12-07-2012, 18:55
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz30ffW2xM1qewacoo1_500.png

Haha, something tells me you use Linux. Having tried Openoffice, Libreoffice, et al on my linux partition, I can honestly tell you that I would hate to use that stuff on a regular basis. I like MS Office so much that I even use it on my Mac.

sputnik767
12-07-2012, 19:02
Where does that leave the Macs...? In a place where only silly people who enjoy wasting money go.

I will conditionally disagree with you. Macs are more expensive primarily because they are more expensive to manufacture. They have better displays with a higher resolution than the typical store-bought PC, made from aluminum machined from a solid block, and use higher-end components than the typical laptop at best buy. Plus they come with things like a backlit keyboard, glass multitouch trackpad, etc. If you had a PC manufacturer emulate Apple's quality standards and production methods, you'd see that the cost would be similar. The question then is not whether Macs are worth it, but rather are they worth it to you? It's really no different than somebody who buys a Sig or HK over a Glock or Springfield. All will shoot the same round at probably a very similar accuracy and reliability. But some cost as much as double. Some people pay more for high-end engineering, and others just want something that works. Some people want a BMW, others are content with a Camry. Neither group is silly.

sputnik767
12-07-2012, 19:09
It does, thanks! Hey, there is a reason everyone compares their products to Apple and not each others'.

I hate to break it to you, but Apple hasn't made a better product in the mobile phone category for a while. Nor does the reason you provided point to a better product. Just because people still line up for the iPhone doesn't make it better. Now, Apple does have excellent products such as the iMac and Macbook Air where competition doesn't really exist, but Apple has dropped the ball in the highly competitive smartphone market. For the first time ever, I'm hearing people who got the Galaxy S3 over the iPhone 5 (coming from another iPhone) tell me that they are much happier with the S3. And others have told me that they wish they got the S3 over the iPhone 5. And the S3 has a better battery life than the iPhone 5. Now don't get me wrong, I like Apple and I have some of their products, but the difference is that I am not jaded to the point that I am blind to the world around me. Fact of the matter is that the competition is now starting to make excellent products that are either pulling customers from Apple or at least pulling in new customers, vs having them go to Apple. This has not happened before, and Apple' stock price has begun to show it. If you don't see this happening, you really need to open your eyes or at least read the news from the tech sector.

FLIPPER 348
12-07-2012, 19:17
Fact of the matter is that the competition is now starting to make excellent products that are either pulling customers from Apple or at least pulling in new customers, vs having them go to Apple. This has not happened before, and Apple' stock price has began to show it. If you don't see this happening, you really need to open your eyes or at least read the news.


They all compare themselves to Apple for good reason And they always will becuse Apple drives innovation and is always in the lead.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft

Glock20 10mm
12-07-2012, 19:39
Unfortunately, when professionals need real work to get done the open source options just don't cut the mustard. The comparison of Inkscape vs Adobe Illustrator, Blender vs Autodesk 3DS MAX, and OpenOffice vs MS Office really presents no choice -- the open source options are woefully inadequate.

As for running servers, Linux is fantastic. Some of my servers have had uptimes measured in years, and none have ever suffered security breaches. It is a fantastic server OS.

So, to sum it up: If you're a content creator, Windows all the way without a doubt. If you're setting up servers, then it's Linux (or FreeBSD.) Where does that leave the Macs...? In a place where only silly people who enjoy wasting money go.

Rather an arrogant presumption. There are many types of professionals out there. I find it ironic that so many say "in order to get real work done!" yet I am more than capable of getting "real work" done with Open Source.

Using Open Source I recovered the following:
Electrical : $1,561,772.14
Natural Gas : $796,637.34
Irrigation : $136,819.13
Sea Water : $18,230.49
Water : $1,475,487.26
Total Revenue Recovered for 2011-12 = $3,988,946.36

That what I recover for the campus roughly every fiscal year, what I actually bill is even more than that. In the last 4 years my process and system has been audited and found to be not only accurate but it has a 99% reliability for uptime. The 1% downtime was all attributed to hardware failures or operating system upgrades. Also noted in the audits were turn around time reductions. Reports that used to take several hours to generate and ship now take 5-10 minutes.

I also again reduced recovery and read times significantly with yet another reduction in errors and incorrect billing. Using predominantly Open Source tools and applications I have taken what used to take between 8-10 days start to finish and have now reduced over all time down to 2.5 days. This was accomplished over a 4 year period and was no minor feat.

The common tasks are:
1. setting up the meter read files (Linux)
2. programming the read devices (Windows)
3. reading meters (Human / Windows)
4. retrieving reads (Windows)
5. loading read data into the database (Linux)
6. conducting initial error check evaluations (Linux)
7. corrections and validations (Linux)
8. rate assignment (Linux)
9. bill generation (Linux)
10. report delivery (Linux)
11. provide green house gas reporting data (Linux)
12. provide building energy use metrics (Linux)
13. provide campus energy trends for student projects (Linux)

Primary Applications used:

OpenSuSE 12.3 OS
Apache OpenOffice 3.4.1
JasperSoft iReport 4.7.0
SQLite
SQLite Studio
My Custom Database Application (written specifically for Linux systems)
KRDC
Thunderbird for e-mail and calendaring functions.

And no one that I deal with has even an inkling that I am using Open Source solutions as I interact within the Microsoft Active Directory without a hitch. The only folks that have "issues" are ITS, and that's because I operate outside their domain of control. But since they cannot trace any intrusion activity or "illegal" activity to my Linux systems they leave me alone.

The simple fact is the tools are there, learning how to use them is what makes a professional... professional. I choose tools that allow me to work efficiently and quickly with as little interference as possible. And when Microsoft stops with the hand holding and has native support for multiple desktops (and yes they have a very good use in the professional realm) as well as better native customization (meaning it works smoothly) then maybe I will look at their products again.

But, this professional that deals with millions of dollars annually in utility bills will stick with Linux.

sputnik767
12-07-2012, 19:48
They all compare themselves to Apple for good reason And they always will becuse Apple drives innovation and is always in the lead.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft

Sorry, but rehashing the same statement using different words does not help to prove your point. Nor is comparing 2 companies at a single point in time a valid comparison. Not to mention that I am not even concerned with with Microsoft. If you were Apple, you'd be worried about Google, not MS. The future of MS is looking shaky as of now. Want to compare Google stock to Apple stock? I am looking at trends, and Apple has dropped from over $700 to 533 per share in a matter of 2 months. That's a nearly 25% drop. Couple that with a wildly successful competing product from Samsung, powered by Google, and the iPhone dominance is beginning to look shaky. And please tell me what has Apple innovated in the past 2 years. A larger iPhone and a smaller iPad (with no other changes) is hardly innovation. All of the smartphone innovation from the past 2-3 years has come out of Google, and the manufacturers who utilize it. Apple just changed the size of their products, and called it the next best thing.

di11igaf
12-07-2012, 21:54
They all compare themselves to Apple for good reason And they always will becuse Apple drives innovation and is always in the lead.

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl

http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/msft

No, they don't. Apple is really good at one thing, marketing. They are and always have been pretty blatant thieves. They pretty much take an excellent open source os(BSD), dumb it down, make most of it closed source, add their own GUI and its somehow the most innovative and secure thing on the planet. Fact is its LESS secure than other Unix based systems after they've dumbed down.
Until apple stops acting like their customers are complete morons, I'll never own another apple product.
If your gonna go osx and have some incompatibility with windows apps and whatnot, why not just go with the better, more secure, faster, more customizable, more powerful open source Unix based OS's.
Here- right from the horses mouth.
Steve Jobs: Good artists copy great artists steal - YouTube

Trapped_in_Kali
12-08-2012, 00:33
No, they don't. Apple is really good at one thing, marketing. They are and always have been pretty blatant thieves. They pretty much take an excellent open source os(BSD), dumb it down, make most of it closed source, add their own GUI and its somehow the most innovative and secure thing on the planet. Fact is its LESS secure than other Unix based systems after they've dumbed down.
Until apple stops acting like their customers are complete morons, I'll never own another apple product.
If your gonna go osx and have some incompatibility with windows apps and whatnot, why not just go with the better, more secure, faster, more customizable, more powerful open source Unix based OS's.
Here- right from the horses mouth.
Steve Jobs: Good artists copy great artists steal - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU)


That's hard to do when....... oh, never mind.

MarcDW
12-08-2012, 01:28
...They are and always have been pretty blatant thieves. ...[/url]

Do you know who had first a PC and got away form thinking a computer should be only commercial?
Do you know who had first the visible platform with icons and the waste basket?

eracer
12-08-2012, 04:18
One of my jobs is to troubleshoot computer-based editing systems.

No way I would have learned what I know now if I hadn't been subjected to the trial-by-fire that Windows NT was.

Macs are good for creative expression, but they produce technots.

Why do you think the battery on the iPhone isn't user-replaceable?:whistling:

The Machinist
12-08-2012, 07:12
Why do you think the battery on the iPhone isn't user-replaceable?
Because it's innovative! :whistling:

sputnik767
12-09-2012, 15:22
Because it's innovative! :whistling:

You want to know what's really innovative? Not only does my Macbook Pro not have a replaceable battery, but if you open the back case, every single component is attached using regular Phillips head screws...except the battery. They used tri-wing screws for that one. I am not sure if it is a scheme to only have the Apple store replace batteries or what. The only innovation that came out of Apple in the past few years was successfully making it as difficult as possible to fix their devices.

Louisville Glocker
12-10-2012, 07:12
I learned how to program on an old Apple (1982/3). Then used Apple computers and Unix through college (graduated 1987). I can't say I enjoyed all of those "bomb" icons every time the computer crashed while writing my senior thesis.

Through grad school, I gradually transitioned over to PC's. And I stayed on PC's when doing a startup company of my own. PC's ever since.

Highly prefer Windows to Apple. VISTA SUCKED. Glad it is gone. Win 7 is fine. But overall, microsoft rocks. If you're an artist doing video or something, maybe go mac, but otherwise stay with windows. And the free security is pretty darn good (use a couple other programs additionally like malwarebyes)

Just picked up an ASUS laptop for my ten year old. Only $300, and it has a full keyboard, dvd drive, 4 MB Ram, everything. Windows 8, so I guess I'll be checking it out. Find a comparable Apple product for anywhere near that price point.

Cheers!

Gallium
12-10-2012, 08:55
Do you know who had first a PC and got away form thinking a computer should be only commercial?
Do you know who had first the visible platform with icons and the waste basket?


Xerox Alto, 10 years before the original Apple Lisa. Where did they get the idea from? :)

kat1950
12-10-2012, 11:50
I've had W7 for a good while now and I still think it sucks.

It seems to be a good operating system but almost everything I do is a big chore. Even simple things like Search becomes a big deal. Then the damned thing can't find files that I know are on the computer.

Then there's Explorer.
The Geeks couldn't leave it alone and simple to use. They added a bunch of crap like, libraries, pictures, home group, videos, etc, that I have no use for but can't get rid of.
Just leave the damned stuff simple for people that have no interest in relearning a new system every time Microsoft forces a new, usually full of bugs, version of Windows on you.

Just yesterday I wanted to check on "Restore". So I have to spend a half hour trying to find where the hell Restore is hidden now.

I'm not a computer Geek and I don't enjoy having to figure out where Microsoft hid stuff that I've been using for years.

Then there's the expense of having to buy a new printer and several expensive programs because they won't work in W7.


My two other computers still have XP and I have no problem with it or using it.


So you have to buy the new crap.
Can't you imagine a bunch of Microsoft programmers sitting around saying, "No need to change this, it works fine".
It's more like, "Yeah this works fine but for job security lets change everything around so it looks like we are actually doing something useful".

If you think 7 is bad wait until you see 8 it really sucks, XP pro is the only way to go for home and business, simply, easy to learn and navigate through, everything a business is looking for.

N4LP
12-10-2012, 13:07
Only in your mind, sadly... PCs are simply better in every way. First, you get to choose whatever kind of case you want. Bright red? Got it. Black with perhaps some glowing blue fans? Sure. Brushed aluminum? Yup. Whatever you want.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146067

Yes, even some random company named "NZXT" is capable of designing a case that makes any Mac look like its from 1990.



http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b6/b6050e6b_nzxt_phantom.jpeg
Looks like something George Lucas would have designed in 1977.

Harper
12-10-2012, 14:15
Looks like something George Lucas would have designed in 1977.

And that's a negative thing :headscratch:

http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/casemods10.jpg

ND40oz
12-10-2012, 19:29
Looks like something George Lucas would have designed in 1977.

No idea why anyone would suggest that to compete with a Mac Pro, get some thing nice, like a Lian Li PC-V2120X (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112312)

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/11-112-312-Z01?$S300W$

robrides85
12-11-2012, 09:29
I think when my wife is due for another laptop I will urge her to get a Mac. It will simplify file transfers between computers, and it will be easier for her to keep up with her calendar, contacts etc as it will automatically sync with her iPhone.

Just pick a cloud and keep it in there. Keeping calendar/contacts/files on something local is fine if you're concerned about an independent backup, but everything is moving toward wireless access when you want it, from a server somewhere else.

robrides85
12-11-2012, 09:31
cannot get her iMac to print to our network printer.

Yup. Can't get my Macbook to print to the network printer here at work either. Have to upload a file to Google Drive, open it up on a PC on the network, download, and print.

robrides85
12-11-2012, 09:39
It does, thanks! Hey, there is a reason everyone compares their products to Apple and not each others'.

Oh, you mean when they introduced the iPad Mini and constantly compared it to the Google/Asus Nexus 7?

robrides85
12-11-2012, 09:46
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz30ffW2xM1qewacoo1_500.png

:supergrin: Word for Mac - same problem. Just don't do it. Paragraphs move around the inserted picture by some set of rules that I just can't wrap my mind around.

robrides85
12-11-2012, 09:51
I have both Windows and Mac, and they both have their good and not-so-good points. However, if you told me that I have to pick one system and stick with it for the rest of my life, I would pick Windows hands down. Macs are very nice, but with Windows I can do a whole lot more. However, if you are like the typical computer user who needs email, facebook, and internet browsing, and like to download "free" screensavers and games, I'd say you need a mac. Because those are the people that keep companies like Geek Squad in business.

For just browsing, your average user needs no more than a netbook/Chromebook/similar. People spending over a grand on a Mac to do no more than browse the internet (or ooh, maybe use a word processor!) closely parallels the target audience of the $7 cup of coffee at Starbucks. Probably why you'll see so many macs at Starbucks.

robrides85
12-11-2012, 09:56
I will conditionally disagree with you. Macs are more expensive primarily because they are more expensive to manufacture. They have better displays with a higher resolution than the typical store-bought PC, made from aluminum machined from a solid block, and use higher-end components than the typical laptop at best buy. Plus they come with things like a backlit keyboard, glass multitouch trackpad, etc. If you had a PC manufacturer emulate Apple's quality standards and production methods, you'd see that the cost would be similar. The question then is not whether Macs are worth it, but rather are they worth it to you? It's really no different than somebody who buys a Sig or HK over a Glock or Springfield. All will shoot the same round at probably a very similar accuracy and reliability. But some cost as much as double. Some people pay more for high-end engineering, and others just want something that works. Some people want a BMW, others are content with a Camry. Neither group is silly.

It's very easy to disagree with you on this - you need only look at Apple's profits. Obviously they comd from somewhere, and that source is not higher costs of manufacturing. You think you're getting a more valuable/handcrafted/amazingly engineered product, which is driving their profits up. If you were actually getting a high-end product that was worth it (as in, money poured into manufacturing), they wouldn't be sitting on $100 billion in cash.

A "high-end engineering" example:

Nexus 7 16GB tablet costs $170 to build, sells for $200.
iPad Mini 16GB tablet costs $190 to build, sells for $329.

blastfact
12-11-2012, 14:05
I have never has any issues with MS OS's on my own machines. I've owned MS OS's dating back to dos 2.0. And currently have 7, XP-Pro 64 bit, XP-Pro 32 bit and a old Red Hat kernel running on machines around the house. All are on quality hardware.

The absence of good quality hardware is what gives most Win users issue's. First on the list is poor quality power supplies. Second is really crappy ram. Third is the bottom of the barrel mother boards used by many of the mass marketed off the shelf computers many buy with MS OS preinstalled.

The Mac's are more than likely the best over all out of the box publishing machines and general use machines. But when you really start laying the coal to them they start coughing and sputtering. The pour things still can't use cuda right concerning video cards. They can't even be made to game right.

I will stay with this old machine that goes months at a time without reboots. Built in 2009 she is still rock stable on XP-Pro 64 bit. And drastically over clocked. The video cards and cpu have been at 100% since her birth. The old video cards, Q6600, Corsair ram and power supply. With tad of water cooling. :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/547/medium/S7300434.JPG

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/547/medium/S7300445.JPG

Just runs and runs!

Geko45
12-11-2012, 14:20
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/547/medium/S7300445.JPG

What's that big silver box next to the computer?

:tongueout:

50 Cent
12-11-2012, 18:37
I have been using Windows 7 for years. XP and Vista had their bugs. 7 is really nice to use. I also like the layout of the Start button, the Control Panel, etc.
I have an iPad which is not bad, but I don't like the Apple OSX software layout.
With Windows, if something like my wireless printer quits working, I know where to go.

So far, I am on my 2nd Windows 7 laptop (1st Toshiba lasted 3 years of hard use and abuse). It's fast, it's secure, it works.

People always ***** about Windows but to me honest I really enjoy it. I have heard Windows 8 is a disaster though, but 7 seems great.

You?

I use Windows 7 on a powerful machine at work. When we upgraded it was like going from a Model T to a Porsche. Microsoft seems to have finally got it right with W7, but screwed up with W8.

Or did they? I have a feeling W8 is less aimed at the desktop/business world and more mobile/phone/tablet world. I remember seeing a stat about at least 40%(more maybe)of users getting online vs their smartphone at some point and that number is growing. Microsoft is smart to want a piece of that action.

Unfortunately, they will fumble around until they get it right.

Roger1079
12-11-2012, 20:17
I have been using Windows 7 for years. XP and Vista had their bugs. 7 is really nice to use. I also like the layout of the Start button, the Control Panel, etc.
I have an iPad which is not bad, but I don't like the Apple OSX software layout.
With Windows, if something like my wireless printer quits working, I know where to go.

So far, I am on my 2nd Windows 7 laptop (1st Toshiba lasted 3 years of hard use and abuse). It's fast, it's secure, it works.

People always ***** about Windows but to me honest I really enjoy it. I have heard Windows 8 is a disaster though, but 7 seems great.

You?I work with Windows because I have no choice. I have 43 servers at work running Server 2003 and Server 2008 and 156 workstations running XP and Windows 7. My machine is a 27" iMac running Mountain Lion. I hated OSX until I actually used it. It however has shown me just how far Windows needs to go to catch up.