Help/Question -Full Length Re-sizing 223 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ar154life
12-06-2012, 02:55
Hey guys,

I'm having sporadic head space readings on my Wilson Case gauge using Lee full length 223 dies.

I'm re-sizing range brass and for the life of me can't get a consistent shoulder bump. Out of 20 cases resized, 5 are flush with the lower step and 4-5 are flush with the upper step. What gives? I'm having to bump some of the cases .006-.008 just to get them to fall below the upper step.


Also I'm having trouble bottoming out the shell holder with the die using monarch brass (nny stamped).

dhgeyer
12-06-2012, 07:22
Some possible explanations.

1. Some brands of cases are made thicker than others. There's always going to be a bit of spring back.

2. Brass gets harder when it's worked. It also gets more springy. Sooner or later the case necks crack from being brittle.

3. Are you sure the press is bottoming out all the time with all your brass? RCBS directions say that you should set the resizing die to have resistance (you should feel the handle go "over center") with no case in it. I don't imagine Lee is any different.

4. Are you lubing the cases, and with what and how much?

If the brass is too work hardened to resize properly, you can anneal the necks. Brass anneals the opposite of carbon steel. You heat the brass to cherry red with a torch, then quench it. My friend, an old timer, used to take a batch of cases and set them in a shallow dish of some kind, mouth up, and the water level about half way up the case. He would heat each case to cherry red with a torch, then knock it over. After that the brass at the neck and mouth was soft and workable again. He set the heads in water to protect them from the heat, because you want the heads and webs hard.

I never bothered with all that. When cases started getting work hardened, which you can feel when resizing them, I would throw them away. Now we recycle them of course.

Boxerglocker
12-06-2012, 08:07
Hey guys,

I'm having sporadic head space readings on my Wilson Case gauge using Lee full length 223 dies.

I'm re-sizing range brass and for the life of me can't get a consistent shoulder bump. Out of 20 cases resized, 5 are flush with the lower step and 4-5 are flush with the upper step. What gives? I'm having to bump some of the cases .006-.008 just to get them to fall below the upper step.


Also I'm having trouble bottoming out the shell holder with the die using monarch brass (nny stamped).


If your using the Lee sizing die with the o-ring on the lock ring. Toss the lock ring and get a standard and get a regular Dillon or any other solid one. The difference of 0.006-0.008 can be the flex in the o-ring.
Make sure you sizing die bottoms out on your shell plate, then continue to screw down until you are consistently at minimum (flush on the lower step) on your Wilson case gauge. You'll find your at over center which is OK.
I also agree with the previous poster, make sure you use a appropriate and adequate amount of lube. I prefer Dillon case lube.

Colorado4Wheel
12-06-2012, 10:33
Rather then buying a new lock ring just flip the Lee over and take the o-ring off. I use the O-ring setup on the LCT but any other press gets the standard ring (no-o-ring).

Boxerglocker
12-06-2012, 11:41
Rather then buying a new lock ring just flip the Lee over and take the o-ring off. I use the O-ring setup on the LCT but any other press gets the standard ring (no-o-ring).

Good point, didn't cross my mind. I change all my lock rings to Dillon ones regarding of the dies used.

ar154life
12-06-2012, 11:44
Thanks guys, I just checked it this morning and realized there was a lot of slop/movement when re-sizing. I'll remove the o-ring and give it another try. I'm using imperial sizing wax and lightly coating the body of the case.

Another question.

1) I've been told to bump no more than .003-.005 when re-sizing... some of my range brass measure need to be bumped .008 to pass the wilson case gauge. Would this be okay? Hopefully once i've fired them through my ar-15 they will not need to be worked that much.

Colorado4Wheel
12-06-2012, 12:11
Good point, didn't cross my mind. I change all my lock rings to Dillon ones regarding of the dies used.

I use the Dillon on my Dillon Presses.

I actually prefer the Lee with the O-ring for the LCT. I even double the O-Ring up on the Seating die. I like the idea of the self centering effect of the Lee Dies with the Floating Toolhead of the LCT.

F106 Fan
12-06-2012, 12:12
Thanks guys, I just checked it this morning and realized there was a lot of slop/movement when re-sizing. I'll remove the o-ring and give it another try. I'm using imperial sizing wax and lightly coating the body of the case.

Another question.

1) I've been told to bump no more than .003-.005 when re-sizing... some of my range brass measure need to be bumped .008 to pass the wilson case gauge. Would this be okay? Hopefully once i've fired them through my ar-15 they will not need to be worked that much.

For proper headspacing, your resized brass should fit the case gauge. Simple as that!

You said 'range' brass. Did you mean 'free range' brass - somebody else's brass that you picked up? Or is it just your brass. If ALL of YOUR brass needs to be bumped 0.008" then your chamber MIGHT be a little oversized. I suppose it could be argued that you don't need to bump as far back but, personally, I wouldn't go there. I want my ammo to fit every legitimate chamber so I will go with the case gauge.

There are chamber gauges available to check the headspacing on your chamber:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FPHG0223G

In the meantime, make your brass fit the gauge.

Richard

ar154life
12-06-2012, 12:21
Thanks Mr. F106 FAN! I was leaning towards this belief also.

The brass are from other people's rifles I've hoarded after they left the range. I'll update this once i get out to the range. Wish reloading 223 was as easy as 9mm.

fredj338
12-06-2012, 12:50
Loading for the AR is diff than a bolt gun if you want 100% reliabiltiy FL sizing range or brass from your gun, same thing. Push the shoulder back as far as you need to get 100% functioning. I use RCBS SB X dies, just an extra insurance, but even then, I had to screw the die in w/ a slight cam over on my 550B to get that last tiny bit of sizing that allows 100% functioning in 3 diff ARs.

F106 Fan
12-06-2012, 13:26
Thanks Mr. F106 FAN! I was leaning towards this belief also.

The brass are from other people's rifles I've hoarded after they left the range. I'll update this once i get out to the range. Wish reloading 223 was as easy as 9mm.

Once the dies are set up, loading .223 for an AR-15 is exactly the same as loading 9mm or .45 ACP.

I set up my 650 for .223 and cranked out about 500 rounds with no additional concern. They shoot great in my AR.

My only hangup with loading .223 is with the crimp in the Federal brass. I just hate having to deal with brass on an individual basis. Maybe I'll set up my 1050 for .223 and load the other 3000 rounds. I am absolutely NOT going to swage the cases by hand.

Richard

DoctaGlockta
12-06-2012, 14:36
I need to pull out my wallet and get a FL sizing die for 223. I also have too many issues at the range with a couple of ar's.

Thanks to OP for reminding me.

Perhaps Obamaclaus will bring one this year.

ar154life
12-07-2012, 01:41
Update

I removed the o-ring (flipped the lock ring upside down) and re-sized some cases today. I am getting very consistent head space measurements!!! thanks for all your help you guys are great.