BLOOD IN THE STREETS as pot becomes legal in Washington. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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airmotive
12-06-2012, 09:45
That IS what happened, right?
At midnight last night, weed became legal, so, like, by 1 AM the bodies had to be piled neck high....right?

Right?

(tap, tap tap) Is this thing on?

DanaT
12-06-2012, 09:48
No. Your presumption is all wrong. The reason why the bodies arent pile high is because yesterday the authorities raided all places with MJ, removed all the MJ, and saved people from the ensuing mayhem and dead bodies.

CAcop
12-06-2012, 09:49
Dear God,

Please let the voluntary homeless potheads go to Washington. Also make rain illegal there since they don't like getting wet apparently.

CAcop
12-06-2012, 09:53
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

series1811
12-06-2012, 09:53
No, the funny thing was the video all of the potheads smoking at a giant rally, celebrating the fact that they could now smoke pot in public, (which the new law specifically forbids).

:supergrin:

Dennis in MA
12-06-2012, 09:54
They were going to riot, but they grabbed some munchies at 7-11 and then went to bed, dude.

LippCJ7
12-06-2012, 09:54
You are joking right? I mean everyone knows that pot heads will not start killing people until they realize that twinkies are gone.....



You have to wait for the munchies to kick in!!

Atlas
12-06-2012, 09:55
It'll take a few days or weeks...
Then we'll see debauchery on a scale previously unimagined, maybe even... dancing.

Everyone here at GT with an opinion on the matter should post in this thread and register their prediction about the eventual fate of Washington now that marijuana has been legalized at the state/local level.

Now we have an opportunity, lets see just how evil that stuff is really.

Lawlessness?
Rampant laziness and total lack of productivity?
Total breakdown of civilization and society?
Place your bets!

series1811
12-06-2012, 09:58
It'll take a few days or weeks...
Then we'll see debauchery on a scale previously unimagined, maybe even... dancing.

Everyone here at GT with an opinion on the matter should post in this thread and register their prediction about the eventual fate of Washington now that marijuana has been legalized at the state/local level.

Now we have an opportunity, lets see just how evil that stuff is really.

Lawlessness?
Rampant laziness and total lack of productivity?
Total breakdown of civilization and society?
Place your bets!

If last night was any indication, you will start seeing a lot more of them smoking it in public, cars, etc.

It will be interesting to watch though. I wonder how many potheads will move there, the way so many moved to Amsterdam.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 09:58
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

What happens when an illegal immigrant slams into a family killing them? What happens when someone who is 90 years old drives through a crowd of people? What happens when someone is drunk and slams into a family, killing them? What happens when someone who is prone to seizures is driving, has a seizure and kills someone? What happens when a cop is involved in a high speed pursuit and slams into someone killing them? What happens when someone is taking prescription medication and slams into someone killing the family?

What is the common denominator? A motor vehicle. So, using your "safety" premises, the only way to prevent this is get rid of motor vehicles.

As to your medical question, who does someone sue now for cirrhosis of the liver?

byf43
12-06-2012, 10:03
They were going to riot, but they grabbed some munchies at 7-11 and then went to bed, dude.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

series1811
12-06-2012, 10:05
Well, if we are going to run these kind of social experiments, I am all in favor of them being run in places I don't live. :supergrin:

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 10:06
What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them?

The same thing that has always happened when a person commits a drug DUI.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 10:06
Pot will be legal in CO later today. The deadline to certify the vote is today so once it is certified, we will have blood in the streets like WA.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 10:08
Well, if we are going to run these kind of social experiments, I am all in favor of them being run in places I don't live. :supergrin:

Because we have seen how well the social experiment of prohibition worked and how well the social experiment of the war on drugs has worked out.

SiberianErik
12-06-2012, 10:19
lucky mofos..so can non residents just go out there and light up at a sidewalk cafe or what ?? I need a nice vacation to WA/CO.. I hope they have some places in Vail when I go in Feb to ski.:cool:

after I get high , I hope I dont freak out and pull my 1911 and lay waste to the city

DanaT
12-06-2012, 10:27
lucky mofos..so can non residents just go out there and light up at a sidewalk cafe or what ?? I need a nice vacation to WA/CO.. I hope they have some places in Vail when I go in Feb to ski.:cool:

after I get high , I hope I dont freak out and pull my 1911 and lay waste to the city

Google is your friend. You can google medical MJ shops in Vail. Tomorrow (or later today) they will be selling more than MMJ.

John Rambo
12-06-2012, 10:29
Moms everywhere are rushing out to the store to buy padlocks for their fridges.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 10:32
That IS what happened, right?
At midnight last night, weed became legal, so, like, by 1 AM the bodies had to be piled neck high....right?

Right?

(tap, tap tap) Is this thing on?

And how much did the crime rate drop? and of course the un employment offices are now swelled with the ex dealers who now don't have jobs right?

Memo to self: buy stock in fritos demand is about to surge.

:rofl::rofl:

Carrys
12-06-2012, 10:32
It'll take a few days or weeks...
Then we'll see debauchery on a scale previously unimagined, maybe even... dancing.

Place your bets!

Considering where it's being made legal............wouldn't it be sort o' difficult to tell why/when/how/who bad things go on?

I mean, considering that WA is pretty much already a waste of a State, how we gona tell, eh?

ChuteTheMall
12-06-2012, 10:35
I got stoned and I missed it.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 10:36
Considering where it's being made legal............wouldn't it be sort o' difficult to tell why/when/how/who bad things go on?

I mean, considering that WA is pretty much already a waste of a State, how we gona tell, eh?

Why don't you come visit sometime, there is more to WA than downtown Seattle.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 10:38
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

Same thing that happens when a drunk does; though I do think that the penalties for DUI are to low.

OctoberRust
12-06-2012, 10:41
omg this is worse than when states started allowing concealed carry. :'( this must be all the events leading up to the end of the world in late december 2012. :crying::crying:


Things I find scary and don't agree with should be illegal, it's only fair!

Atlas
12-06-2012, 10:41
Considering where it's being made legal............wouldn't it be sort o' difficult to tell why/when/how/who bad things go on?

I mean, considering that WA is pretty much already a waste of a State, how we gona tell, eh?

I'll take your word for that, I've never been there.

At a glance though, I see that Washington is home to:

a)Some major corporations, such as Microsoft, Weyerhaeuser, and Boeing.
b)Many research institutions and universities.
c)Agriculture ranking 11th in the U.S.


Doesn't seem such a waste to me... :dunno:

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 10:42
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

http://mynorthwest.com/646/2145968/New-details-of-Bellevue-Police-officers-bad-behavior-at-a-Seahawks-game One of the Bellevue officers, Andrew Hanke, told investigators that he was too drunk to remember driving home to Snoqualmie after his rowdy behavior at the September 17 game at Century Link against Dallas.
Result: short suspension and dock in pay. Police your own, then come after others who DUI.

And your attempt at spreading FUD is crap.

PBR Sailor
12-06-2012, 10:43
Not this **** again!

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 10:48
And how much did the crime rate drop? and of course the un employment offices are now swelled with the ex dealers who now don't have jobs right?

Memo to self: buy stock in fritos demand is about to surge.

:rofl::rofl:

Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rates by Stunning 20% in One Year (http://www.alternet.org/marijuana-decriminalization-drops-youth-crime-rates-stunning-20-one-year)



Meanwhile, police and prison guard unions decry the loss of revenue.

Baba Louie
12-06-2012, 10:49
Oh

Wow

I mean

Like

Doood

Uh

Say What?

Oh

Wow

Kewl

aplcr0331
12-06-2012, 10:53
Plus the Gays can now get married here as well. We're doomed. Still cannot legally sell MJ, can't buy it either it's a felony. Still a felony in WA to even give someone MJ. Can't smoke it in public either. But, hey potheads don't seem too concerned, let's eat!

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 10:53
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

what, you mean how drunks do all the time?



and you mean, like cigarette smokers?

CAcop
12-06-2012, 10:53
What happens when an illegal immigrant slams into a family killing them? What happens when someone who is 90 years old drives through a crowd of people? What happens when someone is drunk and slams into a family, killing them? What happens when someone who is prone to seizures is driving, has a seizure and kills someone? What happens when a cop is involved in a high speed pursuit and slams into someone killing them? What happens when someone is taking prescription medication and slams into someone killing the family?

What is the common denominator? A motor vehicle. So, using your "safety" premises, the only way to prevent this is get rid of motor vehicles.

As to your medical question, who does someone sue now for cirrhosis of the liver?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/09/tribe-suing-beer-companies-for-alcohol-problems/

There are deep pockets for booze. Where are the dep pockets for weed? Weed shops don't make enough to be a target. Geverment has plenty of money. Even if the government wins they still loose money. Since you live in CO I hope for your sake Big Tobacco becomes Big Weed.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 10:56
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/09/tribe-suing-beer-companies-for-alcohol-problems/

There are deep pockets for booze. Where are the dep pockets for weed? Weed shops don't make enough to be a target. Geverment has plenty of money. Even if the government wins they still loose money. Since you live in CO I hope for your sake Big Tobacco becomes Big Weed.

How about an article where a victims family is suing Big Booze for a specific incident, instead of a tribal organization suing for a whole range of incidents. Your example article is vastly different than your stated argument.

Also, who is sued when an illegal alien crashes into a family and kills them?

DanaT
12-06-2012, 10:56
Meanwhile, police and prison guard unions decry the lose of revenue.

Follow the money. This is why they are upset.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 10:58
Considering where it's being made legal............wouldn't it be sort o' difficult to tell why/when/how/who bad things go on?

I mean, considering that WA is pretty much already a waste of a State, how we gona tell, eh?

waste of a state? wtf are you talking about?

id like to know where you live.

WA is one of the best states on the west coast. great gun laws, beautiful outdoor scenery, and some very important manufacturing industries.

OctoberRust
12-06-2012, 11:00
waste of a state? wtf are you talking about?

id like to know where you live.

WA is one of the best states on the west coast. great gun laws, beautiful outdoor scenery, and some very important manufacturing industries.


If it's not filled with bibles, fear mongering, and homophobia, carrys doesn't like it.

I would have thought you'd know that by now from being here this long.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 11:01
waste of a state? wtf are you talking about?

id like to know where you live.

WA is one of the best states on the west coast. great gun laws, beautiful outdoor scenery, and some very important manufacturing industries.

But he equates WA to Seattle (I'm assuming). Even though Seattle is a beautiful, albeit liberal, city. I do wish that we allowed full auto firearms here though.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 11:01
If it's not filled with bibles, fear mongering, and homophobia, carrys doesn't like it.

I would have thought you'd know that by now from being here this long.

Ahhhhhh, now I understand. :rofl:

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 11:02
Why don't you come visit sometime, there is more to WA than downtown Seattle.

we dont need any more old geezer tourists polluting out roadways.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 11:02
There are deep pockets for booze. Where are the dep pockets for weed? Weed shops don't make enough to be a target. Geverment has plenty of money. Even if the government wins they still loose money. Since you live in CO I hope for your sake Big Tobacco becomes Big Weed.

Legalizing weed is going to cost the government money guyz!1!!!11

:rofl:

DanaT
12-06-2012, 11:02
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/09/tribe-suing-beer-companies-for-alcohol-problems/

There are deep pockets for booze. Where are the dep pockets for weed? Weed shops don't make enough to be a target. Geverment has plenty of money. Even if the government wins they still loose money. Since you live in CO I hope for your sake Big Tobacco becomes Big Weed.

Regardless of how YOU feel, the voters in CO by 55%, said they feel that the govt should not be telling people that they cannot use MJ. If you dont like it, dont come to CO and you wont have to deal with it. We are a very gun friendly state. In general, I would say we are a very classic liberal state (i.e. meaning believe in personal freedom). No one forces you to move here or come here. In fact, there is in general one type of person who moves to CO that is nearly universally despised. I will give you a hint, they come from a state with a bear on its flag and think everything should be like that state.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 11:04
we dont need any more old geezer tourists polluting out roadways.

:rofl: Fair enough! :rofl:

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 11:04
http://mynorthwest.com/646/2145968/New-details-of-Bellevue-Police-officers-bad-behavior-at-a-Seahawks-game
Result: short suspension and dock in pay. Police your own, then come after others who DUI.



He was policed, based on eye witness accounts of his behavior he was disciplined. I realize you aren't the sharpest pencil in the box but even you should be able to figure out you cannot be prosecuted for DUI just because days later you state you drove home drunk. ( and that applies to LEO and Non LEO equally.)

Marijuana Decriminalization Drops Youth Crime Rates by Stunning 20% in One Year (http://www.alternet.org/marijuana-decriminalization-drops-youth-crime-rates-stunning-20-one-year)



Meanwhile, police and prison guard unions decry the lose of revenue.

So simple possession of less than an ounce is decriminalized and that results in less pot arrests of juveniles.

WOW we can win the war on crime after all. all we have to do is decriminalize rape, robbery, murder, etc and see a sharp decline in the crime rate!!

:rofl::rofl:

vikingsoftpaw
12-06-2012, 11:05
The problem with legalized Marijuana, as I see it it is the certain subculture that isn't happy with enjoying a little smoke at a pot-bar or at home.

They want to fire up a spleef or blunt and ride around the hood while they smoke. Those individuals tend to cause trouble with or without smoke.

Tongo
12-06-2012, 11:07
The problem with legalized Marijuana, as I see it it is the certain subculture that isn't happy with enjoying a little smoke at a pot-bar or at home.

They want to fire up a spleef or blunt and ride around the hood while they smoke.

And if they are driving erratically, they'll get pulled over and busted for DUI. What's the problem here? And do you really think that sub-culture isn't already doing that? It's not like all the non-smokers are suddenly going to go out for high-drives because it's legal.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 11:08
He was policed, based on eye witness accounts of his behavior he was disciplined. I realize you aren't the sharpest pencil in the box but even you should be able to figure out you cannot be prosecuted for DUI just because days later you state you drove home drunk. ( and that applies to LEO and Non LEO equally.)



So simple possession of less than an ounce is decriminalized and that results in less pot arrests of juveniles.

WOW we can win the war on crime after all. all we have to do is decriminalize rape, robbery, murder, etc and see a sharp decline in the crime rate!!

:rofl::rofl:

yeah, because those are victimless crimes right? :upeyes:

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 11:10
The problem with legalized Marijuana, as I see it it is the certain subculture that isn't happy with enjoying a little smoke at a pot-bar or at home.

They want to fire up a spleef or blunt and ride around the hood while they smoke.

Newsflash: those people are already doing that.

Second Newsflash: legalizing pot and legalizing driving under the influence of pot are two different things.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 11:11
this all boils down to whether or not you believe in personal freedoms. people are such hypocrites here.

"dont touch my guns, you cant tell me what I need, i should be able to arm my self how i want!! personal freedom to bear arms!!!"

"people should not have the freedom to put what they want into their bodies! I have a uneducated opinion and personal bias towards pot, so it should be illegal!!"

see the inconsistency here?

DanaT
12-06-2012, 11:16
this all boils down to whether or not you believe in personal freedoms. people are such hypocrites here.

"dont touch my guns, you cant tell me what I need, i should be able to arm my self how i want!! personal freedom to bear arms!!!"

"people should not have the freedom to put what they want into their bodies! I have a uneducated opinion and personal bias towards pot, so it should be illegal!!"

see the inconsistency here?

News flash. This is GT.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 11:16
He was policed, based on eye witness accounts of his behavior he was disciplined. I realize you aren't the sharpest pencil in the box but even you should be able to figure out you cannot be prosecuted for DUI just because days later you state you drove home drunk. ( and that applies to LEO and Non LEO equally.)



So simple possession of less than an ounce is decriminalized and that results in less pot arrests of juveniles.

WOW we can win the war on crime after all. all we have to do is decriminalize rape, robbery, murder, etc and see a sharp decline in the crime rate!!

:rofl::rofl:

The officer ADMITTED to driving while BLACKED OUT due to DRINKING.

As in, so drunk he HAS NO MEMORY of the event.

TERMINATE EMPLOYMENT.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 11:18
The officer ADMITTED to driving while BLACKED OUT due to DRINKING.

As in, so drunk he HAS NO MEMORY of the event.

TERMINATE EMPLOYMENT.

Its only proper to terminate employment of people who embarrass their company by making rude, yet legal, gestures. GT believes in counseling for before terminating for illegal behavior.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 11:18
yeah, because those are victimless crimes right? :upeyes:

The analogy stands in regards to how they are claiming a "reduction in crime".

countrygun
12-06-2012, 11:21
Wait 'till the politicians figure out they can tax it like booze or cigarettes, then they will have to have a new LE agency to make sure no one is growing and selling untaxed weed.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 11:26
Wait 'till the politicians figure out they can tax it like booze or cigarettes, then they will have to have a new LE agency to make sure no one is growing and selling untaxed weed.

You are too late to the party. The amendment that was passed in CO REQUIRES a tax. So just like alcohol, people said it should be taxed.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHALL ENACT AN EXCISE TAX TO BE LEVIED UPON MARIJUANA SOLD OR OTHERWISE TRANSFERRED BY A MARIJUANA CULTIVATION FACILITY TO A MARIJUANA PRODUCT MANUFACTURING FACILITY OR TO A RETAIL MARIJUANA STORE AT A RATE NOT TO EXCEED FIFTEEN PERCENT PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 2017 AND AT A RATE TO BE DETERMINED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THEREAFTER, AND SHALL DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT TO ESTABLISH PROCEDURES FOR THE COLLECTION OF ALL TAXES LEVIED.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 11:30
The officer ADMITTED to driving while BLACKED OUT due to DRINKING.

As in, so drunk he HAS NO MEMORY of the event.

TERMINATE EMPLOYMENT.

While I personally would have no problem with termination of someone that admitted they were so drunk they could not remember driving home. the fact remains that some ACTUAL EVIDENCE is required to take such steps. Evidence like eyewitness testimony that observed staggering drunk and then saw him get into his vehicle and drive off. Even that would not be sufficient for legal prosecution but might suffice for dept. action.

Its only proper to terminate employment of people who embarrass their company by making rude, yet legal, gestures. GT believes in counseling for before terminating for illegal behavior.

Not surprised that you don't know the difference between someone merely stating they did something and another who actually documented their behavior, thus providing PROOF.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 11:33
some ACTUAL EVIDENCE is required to take such steps

So, an admission to investigators doesn't count huh.

TERMINATE.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 11:40
So, an admission to investigators doesn't count huh.

TERMINATE.

No it doesn't. First lets examine the admission itself. He was so drunk he blacked out he doesn't remember driving home. So how do you prove he actually did drive home?

Unless there is some way to prove a statement you cannot act on it. You can investigate and try to establish the truth of it but without some kind of evidence prosecution is impossible and so is sustaining a termination.

aplcr0331
12-06-2012, 11:41
If a police office has probable cause, i.e. driving erratically or being black, they can pull you over for DUI. From there they will take you to a precinct as ask your permission to draw your blood. They can get warrants from judges to draw your blood, and if there is a serious accident the blood draw is mandatory.

Still have to be over 21 to smoke. Still can't smoke on university or college campuses.

Freedom is great isn't it?

DanaT
12-06-2012, 11:43
How many times on GT do we hear "we only enforce laws that are on the books, if you dont like, them there is a process to change them"

Well, people did just that in two states. The said get the police/govt out of people lives for MJ use and went about it the legal way in order to change the law.

Well, to those that dont agree with the new laws guess what. There is a legal way to go about making MJ illegal again. I suggest you start right away if you dont agree.

It funny how they really dont like when people have actually had enough and change the law.

Bren
12-06-2012, 11:46
And how much did the crime rate drop? and of course the un employment offices are now swelled with the ex dealers who now don't have jobs right?

Memo to self: buy stock in fritos demand is about to surge.

:rofl::rofl:

I am absolutely certain that drug legalization will reduce crime by a massive amount in this country, especially organized and violent crime. But that only works if the whole country does it, or at least the majority.

Legalizing it in a couple of states will not do so. Instead, it will increase crime in those states, as people move in and organize to supply drugs to the states where they are still illegal (marijuana or anything else legalized).

The irony is that, if I'm right, the resulting crime in Washington and Colorado will make other states less likely to legalize - may even make those states re-criminalize - but it will be cause less by WA and CO making it legal than by the surrounding states keeping it illegal.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 11:48
No it doesn't. First lets examine the admission itself. He was so drunk he blacked out he doesn't remember driving home. So how do you prove he actually did drive home?

Unless there is some way to prove a statement you cannot act on it. You can investigate and try to establish the truth of it but without some kind of evidence prosecution is impossible and so is sustaining a termination.

It figures you'd defend this looser.

When it is too expensive to fire bad cops, we're all in trouble. Citizens, and the LEO that these bad seeds put ta risk.

Break the union.

Fear Night
12-06-2012, 11:50
Nothing will change.

Pot smokers were already smoking pot before the law legalized it.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 11:51
I am absolutely certain that drug legalization will reduce crime by a massive amount in this country, especially organized and violent crime. But that only works if the whole country does it, or at least the majority.

Legalizing it in a couple of states will not do so. Instead, it will increase crime in those states, as people move in and organize to supply drugs to the states where they are still illegal (marijuana or anything else legalized).

The irony is that, if I'm right, the resulting crime in Washington and Colorado will make other states less likely to legalize - may even make those states re-criminalize - but it will be cause less by WA and CO making it legal than by the surrounding states keeping it illegal.

i agree.

although it will not be profitable for opportunists to buy state licensed and taxed pot for distributions in other states. Cali, idaho, oregon, montana, and other surrounding states already have profitable underground industries doing just fine. i doubt anyone will be coming here for the pot that is taxed three times. 25% from the grower, 25% from the processor, and 25% from the distributor...

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 11:52
It figures you'd defend this looser.

When it is too expensive to fire bad cops, we're all in trouble. Citizens, and the LEO that these bad seeds put ta risk.

Break the union.

Right obviously with me stating I would have no problem with his termination I am "defending" him.

:upeyes:

Sorry but my responses are grounded in the real world. not in my fantasy world where my druthers counteract reality.

Carrys
12-06-2012, 11:52
Why don't you come visit sometime, there is more to WA than downtown Seattle.

Been there my man.

That's how I know what I know, ya know?:wavey:





waste of a state? wtf are you talking about?

id like to know where you live.

WA is one of the best states on the west coast. great gun laws, beautiful outdoor scenery, and some very important manufacturing industries.


Yep, waste of a State.

Look how it voted......nothing much more needs be said.:shocked:

Critias
12-06-2012, 11:56
I wonder how many potheads will move there, the way so many moved to Amsterdam.
I think you're greatly overestimating the initiative and energy shown by hardcore potheads.

Folks that smoke in moderation (in other states) will continue to do so, because they're obviously not worried about the law enough to sweat it. Folks that are way more into pot will...well...let's just say I doubt they're all hard at work packing up their stuff and preparing for a cross country move with a new place to stay and a job lined up in Washington, y'know? :supergrin:

Bren
12-06-2012, 11:59
i agree.

although it will not be profitable for opportunists to buy state licensed and taxed pot for distributions in other states. Cali, idaho, oregon, montana, and other surrounding states already have profitable underground industries doing just fine. i doubt anyone will be coming here for the pot that is taxed three times. 25% from the grower, 25% from the processor, and 25% from the distributor...

I didn't know about the taxing. If they are going to artificially pump the price up to blackmarket levels, they are intentionally undoing most of the benefit they could have gotten. At that level, with the state exercising control over the legal growers, it will still be profitable for the illegal growers to undercut the price and even import dope from places where it is illegal - the fact that the buyers have less risk means a great market for the illegal sellers. I can't decide whether that was done by idiots or people who want to demonstrate the failure of legalization.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 11:59
You are joking right? I mean everyone knows that pot heads will not start killing people until they realize that twinkies are gone.....



You have to wait for the munchies to kick in!!


You must be smoking pot right now. Twinkies are gone...

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 12:00
I am absolutely certain that drug legalization will reduce crime by a massive amount in this country, especially organized and violent crime. But that only works if the whole country does it, or at least the majority.

I would say that is a utopian view. one that assumes that the black market for such currently illegal drugs will simply dry up and go away with legalization.

( organized crime is STILL heavily involved in bootleg and un taxed alcohol And cigarettes for that matter.) because there is still a market for it.

Your view assumes that legalization will remove incentives for drug dealers and organized crime because it proposes a Utopian view where legalization is absolute with no restrictions whatsoever.

For instance, it assumes that the govt. will not regulate things like THC content, or sales to minors, or sales to people on probation or parole. or that drug dealers won't sell the drugs cheaper than the taxed legal kind.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:00
It figures you'd defend this looser.

When it is too expensive to fire bad cops, we're all in trouble. Citizens, and the LEO that these bad seeds put ta risk.

Break the union.

how do you know the guy was "Looser" I think he is probably a loser but I don't know how "tight" he is.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:02
Been there my man.

That's how I know what I know, ya know?:wavey:








Yep, waste of a State.

Look how it voted......nothing much more needs be said.:shocked:

seattle is hardly a representation of the rest of the 71,000 square miles.

farming, lumbar, software, aerospace, tourism, some of the best hunting/fishing in the USA and one of the only temperate rainforests in the USA... pretty useless right?

think about that next time you log onto your computer or take a flight.

secondly, because gays can get married and people can consume a substance no worse than alcohol or cigs our state is worthless?

dont like personal freedoms unless they apply to you right?

im comforted by the fact that your generation is on its way out.

again, want to share what great state you live in? im really interested.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 12:03
The irony is that, if I'm right, the resulting crime in Washington and Colorado will make other states less likely to legalize - may even make those states re-criminalize - but it will be cause less by WA and CO making it legal than by the surrounding states keeping it illegal.

This is the same argument Micheal Bloomberg uses about guns in other states. How is it not true for one, but true for the other?

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:07
You are too late to the party. The amendment that was passed in CO REQUIRES a tax. So just like alcohol, people said it should be taxed.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHALL ENACT AN EXCISE TAX TO BE LEVIED UPON MARIJUANA SOLD OR OTHERWISE TRANSFERRED BY A MARIJUANA CULTIVATION FACILITY TO A MARIJUANA PRODUCT MANUFACTURING FACILITY OR TO A RETAIL MARIJUANA STORE AT A RATE NOT TO EXCEED FIFTEEN PERCENT PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 2017 AND AT A RATE TO BE DETERMINED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THEREAFTER, AND SHALL DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT TO ESTABLISH PROCEDURES FOR THE COLLECTION OF ALL TAXES LEVIED.

And now they will need extra LEOs to collect/enforce.
on top of that they probably should take it very seriously becaause the alcohol and tobacco companies won't like it if they are descrimminated against by allowing "casual" enforcement of taxes on other substances.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 12:08
im comforted by the fact that your generation is on its way out.

again, want to share what great state you live in? im really interested.

If he doesnt like WA, dont go there. It is very simple.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 12:10
I would say that is a utopian view. one that assumes that the black market for such currently illegal drugs will simply dry up and go away with legalization.

(organized crime is STILL heavily involved in bootleg and un taxed alcohol And cigarettes for that matter.) because there is still a market for it.

Oh give it a break.

Yes, there is still trafficking in goods like cigarettes and alcohol but its not even a drop in the bucket compared to the kind of business the cartels are doing.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 12:11
And now they will need extra LEOs to collect/enforce.
on top of that they probably should take it very seriously becaause the alcohol and tobacco companies won't like it if they are descrimminated against by allowing "casual" enforcement of taxes on other substances.

Considering that LEO dont enforce taxes here, it is the department of revenue, they wont need any extra LEO. I have never had any interaction with the police over sales tax in the state. Sorry, but that is just a stupid statement showing you know nothing about how the state tax collection system works.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:11
I didn't know about the taxing. If they are going to artificially pump the price up to blackmarket levels, they are intentionally undoing most of the benefit they could have gotten. At that level, with the state exercising control over the legal growers, it will still be profitable for the illegal growers to undercut the price and even import dope from places where it is illegal - the fact that the buyers have less risk means a great market for the illegal sellers. I can't decide whether that was done by idiots or people who want to demonstrate the failure of legalization.

this wont kill the underground market in wa. it is alive and well and will stay that way. but why conduct illegal activity when you can buy a annual license at 1000$ a year and be within state guidelines? the fact of the matter is that the prices will stay about where they are currently for the med industry, which is pretty similar to the blackmarket prices. it just wont be profitable to undercut the current prices and still produce high grade MJ. the technology will flourish, and the Mexican guys growing in the woods wont be able to compete.

it wont make sense for someone to continue an illegal enterprise when they can comply with state guidelines and make just as much.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:13
im comforted by the fact that your generation is on its way out.

.

Given that you represent the generation that produced "OWS" and have followed Obama like he was the Pied Piper, I can't wait to see how badly you eff it up without adult supervision.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:14
this wont kill the underground market in wa. it is alive and well and will stay that way. but why conduct illegal activity when you can buy a annual license at 1000$ a year and be within state guidelines? the fact of the matter is that the prices will stay about where they are currently for the med industry, which is pretty similar to the blackmarket prices. it just wont be profitable to undercut the current prices and still produce high grade MJ. the technology will flourish, and the Mexican guys growing in the woods wont be able to compete.

it wont make sense for someone to continue an illegal enterprise when they can comply with state guidelines and make just as much.

Ever hear of a TV show called "Moonshiners" ?

Happypuppy
12-06-2012, 12:15
Ok read this news item.

A homeowner shot and killed 2 burglars in Pierce County WA. It was reported he was growing pot. Do you think it was related to the new law in anyway? We're they even after the Pot or an assumption?

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/police-responding-report-double-slaying-pierce-cou/nTPGb/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:18
Given that you represent the generation that produced "OWS" and have followed Obama like he was the Pied Piper, I can't wait to see how badly you eff it up without adult supervision.
people thought the same thing about the hippies from the 60's and 70's....


yeah, the gays and potheads will be the demise of our civiliation :rofl::rofl:

i think we'll be okay.

clayinva
12-06-2012, 12:19
You are joking right? I mean everyone knows that pot heads will not start killing people until they realize that twinkies are gone.....
You have to wait for the munchies to kick in!!

OMG! Now that Hostess is out of business the Twinkies really are gone !

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

DanaT
12-06-2012, 12:22
Oh give it a break.

Yes, there is still trafficking in goods like cigarettes and alcohol but its not even a drop in the bucket compared to the kind of business the cartels are doing.

Last time I bought beer, I didnt feel like paying the taxes. So instead of driving 5 minutes to a liquor store, where the beer was cold and ready to drink, I went to the black market so I could avoid taxes. (so as to not self incriminate myself..i did not do that..it is irony). But think of how stupid that sounds.

BTW. InBev (Budweiser) has and EBITDA of $11.123B in the first 9 month of this year. I doubt any black market, untaxed beer is even close to playing in this realm. But it does make a good story to talk about all the untaxed alcohol..

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:23
Ok read this news item.

A homeowner shot and killed 2 burglars in Pierce County WA. It was reported he was growing pot. Do you think it was related to the new law in anyway? We're they even after the Pot or an assumption?

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/police-responding-report-double-slaying-pierce-cou/nTPGb/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
it was probably a legal medical grow operation which has been legal in washington or some time, so i doubt it. they havent issued state licenses to grow non-medicinal yet. i doubt those guys were normal citizens that decided "hey pots legal today, lets go steal some"

people often want what others have. pot is money. so are guns, jewelry, and other valuables. there will always be thieves.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 12:24
it wont make sense for someone to continue an illegal enterprise when they can comply with state guidelines and make just as much.

You mean things Like the costs of taxes on your legal business and things like govt regulations now applying to your workers including health care, workers comp, fair labor standards act, etc. as well as the cost of complying with govt mandated regulations on production, handling, etc?

Why would anyone want to avoid all that overhead and instead keep their money?

:rofl::rofl:

Bren
12-06-2012, 12:24
I would say that is a utopian view. one that assumes that the black market for such currently illegal drugs will simply dry up and go away with legalization.


Having been born and raised mainly in a state that still has dry counties, maybe I've seen more of this tham most, but I can say without a doubt that when you introduce legal sellers, without the risk of going to jail and with the ability to use the courts, instead of force, to enforce business contracts and disputes, the absolutely, without the slightest room for doubt, eliminate the illegal market. For example, in our dry counties, at the points farthest from the wet counties or where the surrounding counties are also wet, we have bootleggers. they risk jail and transport alcohol from the wet counties to sell illegally in the dry ones - why? Because they can mark the price up 100% based on lack of competition. But as more and more places go "wet" only the bootleggers farthest from the wet counties and cities can still make a living. Nobody is going to pay $40 for a case of beer or a bottle of whiskey, when the same can be bought down the street for $20. This is just the reality I have lived in, from my father arresting "transporters" and "bootleggers" and dealing with corrupt loacl government involved with them, as a state trooper in the 60's and 70's, to me being able to go buy a caser of beer or a bottle of liquor in a car load of 14-16 year olds, or even on foot when I was about 14-15, because bootleggers are unregulated. My family has been involved at least back to my great grandparents going to prison for maijng moonshine and retaliating against a police informant. The drug business works the same way.


( organized crime is STILL heavily involved in bootleg and un taxed alcohol And cigarettes for that matter.) because there is still a market for it.


See above. You may live in a very strange place, but where I'm from, but my family has been involved in law enforcement and crime for generations - state polcie, ATF, secret service, city police, sherifffs and deputies. There is just no bootleggging in places with legal alcohol sales here.


Your view assumes that legalization will remove incentives for drug dealers and organized crime because it proposes a Utopian view where legalization is absolute with no restrictions whatsoever.

No - my assumption is that drugs would be taxed and controlled like alcohol. The criminal market is removed simply by reducing the price, through legal competition, to a level where it is no longer worth the risk to sell it illegally and there isn't enough money to support a criminal organization - as we have already seen with alcohol.

I'm also pretty certain you know that is true, but will not admit it because you believe it is morally repugnant.


For instance, it assumes that the govt. will not regulate things like THC content, or sales to minors, or sales to people on probation or parole. or that drug dealers won't sell the drugs cheaper than the taxed legal kind.

I do not assume that at all - we regulate all of those things in the alcoghol industry and we are still able to eliminate the bblack market, where alcohol is legal.

Bren
12-06-2012, 12:25
people thought the same thing about the hippies from the 60's and 70's....


And they were right.

I am not really on the side of the drug user, as you may think. I expect drug legalization to decrease competition for jobs and such among those who don't use drugs. In short, I expect the drug users to continue to lose and the non-users to win. However, at the same time we can eliminate a great deal of our violent crime and, with the legalization of more dangerous drugs, we could even reduce population and put elections back in the hands of people with enough brains to run the country.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 12:30
And now they will need extra LEOs to collect/enforce.
on top of that they probably should take it very seriously becaause the alcohol and tobacco companies won't like it if they are descrimminated against by allowing "casual" enforcement of taxes on other substances.


And this is exactly why I'm confused at to why people that purport to be "Libertarian", "Small Government", and "get the government out of our lives" are for legalizing and taxing this and other drugs. If anything, it just reallocates governmental resources from one agency to another, builds a newer larger agency, or makes another agency already there larger. The BATF will now be the BATFM....

If they wanna tax it, it should be taxed just like everything else. A flat sales tax. There should be no additional taxes on it, alcohol, or tobacco. This is just inviting the government into everyones lives even more..

If someone wants to grow it, use it in the privacy of their own home, and does not affect anyone else, I say let 'em do it. Don't tax it, regulate it, control it, etc.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:31
You mean things Like the costs of taxes on your legal business and things like govt regulations now applying to your workers including health care, workers comp, fair labor standards act, etc. as well as the cost of complying with govt mandated regulations on production, handling, etc?

Why would anyone want to avoid all that overhead and instead keep their money?

:rofl::rofl:

vs. prison? thats an easy choice for the educated citizen.

when people can whip out a 20 lb crop in a garage in 90 days worth nearly 50k i dont think the even slightly educated entrepreneur will choose illegal over legal just to save on healthcare and workers comp.

the people concerned with such things are probably small operations that wouldnt risk such a thing to save pocket change.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 12:32
And this is exactly why I'm confused at to why people that purport to be "Libertarian", "Small Government", and "get the government out of our lives" are for legalizing and taxing this and other drugs.

Getting taxed while buying legal goods is a pretty big step in the right direction from being thrown in jail for illegally buying the same thing.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:32
people thought the same thing about the hippies from the 60's and 70's....


yeah, the gays and potheads will be the demise of our civiliation :rofl::rofl:

i think we'll be okay.

And the economy is proof, right? You have been kept it ignorance, by your hippy teachers, about how a society declines so you have no idea where you are in that cycle right now.

You are living proof that "Idiocracy" was both a documentary and a forecast. How many more people are going to be on entitlements VS how many are paying for them? Your generation seems to think they have Dad's credit card and the bank is just full of money. Yah, good luck with that.

IF you are so smart do you think you will be able to retire at 50 and do what ever you want, on your own money?

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:37
And this is exactly why I'm confused at to why people that purport to be "Libertarian", "Small Government", and "get the government out of our lives" are for legalizing and taxing this and other drugs. If anything, it just reallocates governmental resources from one agency to another, builds a newer larger agency, or makes another agency already there larger. The BATF will now be the BATFM....

If they wanna tax it, it should be taxed just like everything else. A flat sales tax. There should be no additional taxes on it, alcohol, or tobacco. This is just inviting the government into everyones lives even more..

If someone wants to grow it, use it in the privacy of their own home, and does not affect anyone else, I say let 'em do it. Don't tax it, regulate it, control it, etc.

That is just it. Those "psuedo-libertarians" are just feeding the monster they claim to hate. Nothing in this Country goes unregulatedand un taxed and that requires the infrastrcuture to do just that. As we have seen, when you have an agency that exists on and because of the revenue it brings in, it GROWS. It boggles the mind to think that you can't buy unpasturized milk but people think an intoxicant will go un regulated. SURE:upeyes:

Drain You
12-06-2012, 12:39
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.


Two responses:

a "pot head" isn't nearly affected by pot as you think they are

You don't have to smoke it, yo.

airmotive
12-06-2012, 12:40
Well, if we are going to run these kind of social experiments, I am all in favor of them being run in places I don't live. :supergrin:

Actually, I agree with you 100%.
It should be up to the states. Not the feds.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 12:40
vs. prison? thats an easy choice for the educated citizen.

That probably says it all concerning your knowledge of the real world. Hate to break to you but highly educated persons in LEGAL businesses go to jail everyday for breaking the law in connection with their employment. and their motive? MORE MONEY.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:41
And the economy is proof, right? You have been kept it ignorance, by your hippy teachers, about how a society declines so you have no idea where you are in that cycle right now.

You are living proof that "Idiocracy" was both a documentary and a forecast. How many more people are going to be on entitlements VS how many are paying for them? Your generation seems to think they have Dad's credit card and the bank is just full of money. Yah, good luck with that.

IF you are so smart do you think you will be able to retire at 50 and do what ever you want, on your own money?
boo hoo.

i have yet to be affected by this '****ty economy'. im paying my bills and putting away money just fine. i think my plan is going to work out just fine, without government handouts, nor will i rely on SS.

people ***** and moan about the state of our Country too much. My quality of life is just fine for me.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 12:42
( organized crime is STILL heavily involved in bootleg and un taxed alcohol And cigarettes for that matter.) because there is still a market for it.


Oh give it a break.

Yes, there is still trafficking in goods like cigarettes and alcohol but its not even a drop in the bucket compared to the kind of business the cartels are doing.

Too much reality for you to handle Dragoon?

I seem to recall you bringing up the same nonsense before... and also running away when it was pointed out how silly the comparison is.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:44
boo hoo.

i have yet to be affected by this '****ty economy'. im paying my bills and putting away money just fine. i think my plan is going to work out just fine, without government handouts, nor will i rely on SS.

people ***** and moan about the state of our Country too much. My quality of life is just fine for me.

Even your screen name is a sign that "Idiocracy" is coming about.

You bettter hope you don't need SS or anything else because there will be no one left to pay in to it.

If you do not see the problem it is because you are part of it.

LASTRESORT20
12-06-2012, 12:47
Even your screen name is a sign that "Idiocracy" is coming about.

You bettter hope you don't need SS or anything else because there will be no one left to pay in to it.

If you do not see the problem it is because you are part of it.

Amen! Get `em Country!:supergrin:

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 12:47
That is just it. Those "psuedo-libertarians" are just feeding the monster they claim to hate. Nothing in this Country goes unregulatedand un taxed and that requires the infrastrcuture to do just that. As we have seen, when you have an agency that exists on and because of the revenue it brings in, it GROWS. It boggles the mind to think that you can't buy unpasturized milk but people think an intoxicant will go un regulated. SURE:upeyes:


Yep... I think a flat sales tax would be appropriate for people in the business of growin, manufacturing and selling the product. Not for the home growers/personal users... I also believe that should be the same with Alcohol and/or Tobacco.

I also do no believe the property crimes that are associated with illegal drug activity will decrease just because it's legal now in a few states. The people currently committing crimes (stealing, burgling, robbery, etc) to get their habit fix are gonna change to upstanding citizens now that it's legal... Not to mention the DUI/DWI under THC's influence will probably go up...

Atlas
12-06-2012, 12:48
....
You bettter hope you don't need SS or anything else because there will be no one left to pay in to it.

If you do not see the problem it is because you are part of it.

Sir, the problem with Socialist inSecurity was built-in from the inception... in 1935.

What does that have to do with the thread topic?

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 12:48
Even your screen name is a sign that "Idiocracy" is coming about.

You bettter hope you don't need SS or anything else because there will be no one left to pay in to it.

If you do not see the problem it is because you are part of it.

ill be okay. worry about yourself because with 8,000 posts since march 2012, id assume you're out of work or collecting SS that is according to you, 'drying up'

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 12:50
Not to mention the DUI/DWI under THC's influence will probably go up...

A study came out last year that found a connection between relaxed marijuana laws, and decreased traffic deaths.

Although not definitive, the authors suggested the decrease was on account of people smoking more, but drinking less.

FYI.

JAS104
12-06-2012, 12:51
Yeah man. Next thing Cheech and Chong are gonna go out and buy a pair of Glocks.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 12:57
A study came out last year that found a connection between relaxed marijuana laws, and decreased traffic deaths.

Although not definitive, the authors suggested the decrease was on account of people smoking more, but drinking less.

FYI.


We shall see how that works out in CO and WA...

countrygun
12-06-2012, 12:58
ill be okay. worry about yourself because with 8,000 posts since march 2012, id assume you're out of work or collecting SS that is according to you, 'drying up'

Again, you show your ignorance and willingness to assume, a real problem with your rather intellectually stunted generation.

I have never taken a bit of SS or any Government subsidy. I made it on my own and even if there is still SS when I reach my 60's it would be a drop in the bucket in my income at current rate.

You see, some of us "old guys" paid attention and knew what we were doing, we worked hard, did without, saved and are reaping the benefits. At the rate your generation is going there won't be anything TO save. If you are planning for your future and you still think everything is just fine, then you are a miseducated fool.

GeorgiaGlocker
12-06-2012, 13:01
I don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home. You can smoke all the weed you want to as long as it does not effect anyone else.

But when you decide to get behind the wheel of your 2-ton vehicle and drive it at me at 60 plus mph, that is when I have a major problem with you.

ChuteTheMall
12-06-2012, 13:03
A study came out last year that found a connection between relaxed marijuana laws, and decreased traffic deaths.

Although not definitive, the authors suggested the decrease was on account of people smoking more, but drinking less.

FYI.

Upon further analysis, it was determined that although the traffic death rate did decrease, it was due to increases in fender benders when stoners couldn't get out of parking lots.



http://i49.tinypic.com/32zrpk4.jpg

DanaT
12-06-2012, 13:04
Again, you show your ignorance and willingness to assume, a real problem with your rather intellectually stunted generation.

I have never taken a bit of SS or any Government subsidy. I made it on my own and even if there is still SS when I reach my 60's it would be a drop in the bucket in my income at current rate.

You see, some of us "old guys" paid attention and knew what we were doing, we worked hard, did without, saved and are reaping the benefits. At the rate your generation is going there won't be anything TO save. If you are planning for your future and you still think everything is just fine, then you are a miseducated fool.

So let me ask a simple question. What does your income compared to my income have to do with MJ being legal or illegal?

(I am using MJ = marijuana; not MJ = Micheal Jackson)

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 13:09
Again, you show your ignorance and willingness to assume, a real problem with your rather intellectually stunted generation.

I have never taken a bit of SS or any Government subsidy. I made it on my own and even if there is still SS when I reach my 60's it would be a drop in the bucket in my income at current rate.

You see, some of us "old guys" paid attention and knew what we were doing, we worked hard, did without, saved and are reaping the benefits. At the rate your generation is going there won't be anything TO save. If you are planning for your future and you still think everything is just fine, then you are a miseducated fool.

"old guys" arent the only ones working hard, saving, and reaping the benefits.

the thing is, my generation is not a monolithic populace, just as yours isnt. i agree with some of your thoughts on my generation, though. a lot of them are in trouble, but i dont plan to suckle off the gov.'s teet like most.

this argument started because i stated that i was glad that carrys generation was on its way out. that offended you, i apologize. what i should have said, and what i truly meant, is that i am glad that people who have archaic social views and morals, hold hate towards gays, and are blinded by their own personal bias are on their way out. if the shoe fits wear it.

if you arent a 'carrys' type guy, i am sorry to have accidentally lumped you in with them, as you should be sorry that you lumped me in with the looney OWS movement.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 13:10
So let me ask a simple question. What does your income compared to my income have to do with MJ being legal or illegal?

(I am using MJ = marijuana; not MJ = Micheal Jackson)

It was a side track based upon a response to this,

Originally Posted by Dubble-Tapper

im comforted by the fact that your generation is on its way out.



Highly topical statement

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 13:21
Again, you show your ignorance and willingness to assume, a real problem with your rather intellectually stunted generation.

I have never taken a bit of SS or any Government subsidy. I made it on my own and even if there is still SS when I reach my 60's it would be a drop in the bucket in my income at current rate.

You see, some of us "old guys" paid attention and knew what we were doing, we worked hard, did without, saved and are reaping the benefits. At the rate your generation is going there won't be anything TO save. If you are planning for your future and you still think everything is just fine, then you are a miseducated fool.

Well, except the older generation bankrupted America, and outsourced all her jobs while they were at it.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 13:24
I have never taken a bit of SS or any Government subsidy.

Did you attend public school?

If yes, you've been subsidized.

Do you have kids that attended public school?

If yes, you've been subsidized.

ChuteTheMall
12-06-2012, 13:25
Since younger folks overwhelmingly voted to re-elect Obama, I no longer care about trying to protect their future.

Have fun growing that debt!:wavey:

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 13:27
Since younger folks overwhelmingly voted to re-elect Obama, I no longer care about trying to protect their future.

Have fun growing that debt!:wavey:

Name the political party that did NOT grow the debt during the last.... oh, half dozen or so election cycles.

ChuteTheMall
12-06-2012, 13:27
Did you attend public school?

If yes, you've been subsidized.

Do you have kids that attended public school?

If yes, you've been subsidized.

Have you ever driven on a public road?
Have you ever breathed clean air protected by the EPA?
Have you ever spent federal reserve notes?
:tongueout:

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 13:30
Well, except the older generation bankrupted America, and outsourced all her jobs while they were at it.

no kidding. old guys always act like we (gen X or Y)are the reason the country is doomed. our situation has been created by 75+ years of accumulated error.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 13:31
Well, except the older generation bankrupted America, and outsourced all her jobs while they were at it.

Unions made it more profitable to outsource. Yes creating a businessand hiring peoplewas part of bankrupting America.

Although Idoadmit some of our well meaningpoliticiansdid make it too easy for the weak to survive and breed hence we have and entitlement pool that is bankrupting us.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 13:31
Have you ever driven on a public road?
Have you ever breathed clean air protected by the EPA?
Have you ever spent federal reserve notes?
:tongueout:

I'm not the misguided fool claiming to have never accepted a government subsidy.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 13:33
Unions made it more profitable to outsource.

Stockholders demanded more profit, so jobs were outsourced.

There's more than enough blame to go around, but most rests with the older generation, the people at the helm during the slow crash.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 13:36
I'm not the misguided fool claiming to have never accepted a government subsidy.

Kiss my... I was accused of being able to retire because of a Government subsidy. The only Federal govt check I have ever cashed or deposited was a tax return.

Are you telling me

"I didn't build that"

Now tell me again where I "Accepted" a Govt subsidy.

easy to tell who you voted for.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 13:41
Kiss my... I was accused of being able to retire because of a Government subsidy. The only Federal govt check I have ever cashed or deposited was a tax return.



do you have kids?

if so, did you receive EIC?

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 13:44
Kiss my... I was accused of being able to retire because of a Government subsidy. The only Federal govt check I have ever cashed or deposited was a tax return.

Are you telling me

"I didn't build that"

Now tell me again where I "Accepted" a Govt subsidy.

easy to tell who you voted for.

Hypocrite. Getting your nose bent by my use of the phrase "misguided fool" after you posted this crap:

Again, you show your ignorance.. your rather intellectually stunted generation... you are a miseducated fool.

Hypocrite. :tongueout:

countrygun
12-06-2012, 13:46
do you have kids?

if so, did you receive EIC?

Uhm....No

You might as well give it up.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 13:47
Too much reality for you to handle Dragoon?

I seem to recall you bringing up the same nonsense before... and also running away when it was pointed out how silly the comparison is.

No, because the reality is just as I stated, that legalization does not remove organized crime from something.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 13:49
Hypocrite. Getting your nose bent by my use of the phrase "misguided fool" after you posted this crap:



Hypocrite. :tongueout:

Well you personalize it and you make accusations of Hypocrisy which you can't substantiate so I feel safe in saying that you and "Dubble-tapper" are the poster children for the "Idiocracy" generation.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 13:51
No, because the reality is just as I stated, that legalization does not remove organized crime from something.

Let's be serious... nobody posits that legalizing marijuana is going to do away with literally 100% of the black market.

But it will shrink the size and scale of that market exponentially.

Illegal alcohol and cigarette traffic are NOTHING compared to the black market for illicit drugs, holding them up as failings of legalization is dishonesty at best, stupidity at worst.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 13:53
Let's be serious... nobody posits that legalizing marijuana is going to do away with 100% of the black market.

But it will shrink the size and scale of that market exponentially.


And increase the size and scale of the government..

countrygun
12-06-2012, 13:56
To return to the topic sort of. Why don't you guys just twist one up and forget about the fact that you have an idiot in the White House who isgoing to wreck you chances of succeeding and just sit there ans envy those whoalready have succeeded. You are a much easier group to control when you're stoned.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 13:56
And increase the size and scale of the government..

Regulating a legal marijuana industry is going to take far less government than what we are currently using in order to keep marijuana prohibited.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 13:59
Well you personalize it and you make accusations of Hypocrisy which you can't substantiate so I feel safe in saying that you and "Dubble-tapper" are the poster children for the "Idiocracy" generation.

what ever you say gramps.

PrecisionRifleman
12-06-2012, 14:01
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

Samething can be said about alcohol which has much more.negative side effects....


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Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:01
To return to the topic sort of. Why don't you guys just twist one up and forget about the fact that you have an idiot in the White House who isgoing to wreck you chances of succeeding and just sit there ans envy those whoalready have succeeded. You are a much easier group to control when you're stoned.

you pothead. anyone who says "twist one up" has obviously smoked a ton of weed. :rofl:

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 14:01
Regulating a legal marijuana industry is going to take far less government than what we are currently using in order to keep marijuana prohibited.


We shall see... I don't think that will be proven to be true. We have two new test cases to supply the data though...

countrygun
12-06-2012, 14:02
Let's be serious... nobody posits that legalizing marijuana is going to do away with literally 100% of the black market.

But it will shrink the size and scale of that market exponentially.

Illegal alcohol and cigarette traffic are NOTHING compared to the black market for illicit drugs, holding them up as examples to counter decriminilization is dishonesty at best, stupidy at worst.

The "infrastructure" for illegal and untaxed growing and the black market itself is in place, now given (as everybody keeps saying) it is so easy to do, does your experience in human naturetell you people, that have been so willing to participate in the Black Market, are just going to rush towards paying taxes?

Somebodyis still going to have to "police" that Black Market and make sure the taxes are paid, that "agency" will depend on those taxes for its funding. So, what will be changed again?

countrygun
12-06-2012, 14:03
you pothead. anyone who says "twist one up" has obviously smoked a ton of weed. :rofl:

Amazing what you learn from the dopers on the internet.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 14:04
Ok read this news item.

A homeowner shot and killed 2 burglars in Pierce County WA. It was reported he was growing pot. Do you think it was related to the new law in anyway? We're they even after the Pot or an assumption?

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/police-responding-report-double-slaying-pierce-cou/nTPGb/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


From that article:

“This is a good example of what happens when you’re growing 50, 60 plants or so of marijuana in your house. People are going to come take it from you,” said Ed Troyer with the Pierce County Sheriff’s Office.That's the same cop whose 19yo son 'apparently' raped a 14 yo girl.

That cop defended his sons actions to the media.

Oh, and his daughter 'temporarily disappeared' with a level 1 sex offender.

Yeah he's a real winner of a cop and parent.

RC-RAMIE
12-06-2012, 14:05
Regulating a legal marijuana industry is going to take far less government than what we are currently using in order to keep marijuana prohibited.

Also that government increase, if any will be on the state level not Federal.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:06
The "infrastructure" for illegal and untaxed growing and the black market itself is in place, now given (as everybody keeps saying) it is so easy to do, does your experience in human naturetell you people, that have been so willing to participate in the Black Market, are just going to rush towards paying taxes?

I know enough pot smokers to know that when its legalized, most are just gonna buy it at the store, just like they do all their other goods.


Somebodyis still going to have to "police" that Black Market and make sure the taxes are paid, that "agency" will depend on those taxes for its funding. So, what will be changed again?

It obviously takes less resources to police a much smaller market.

Duh.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:07
Let's be serious... nobody posits that legalizing marijuana is going to do away with literally 100% of the black market.

But it will shrink the size and scale of that market exponentially.

Illegal alcohol and cigarette traffic are NOTHING compared to the black market for illicit drugs, holding them up as examples to counter decriminilization is dishonesty at best, stupidy at worst.

Being serious and logical I don't see the guy that can, as another poster pointed out, give up his 50K a month from his garage operation and go legit.

Since the product is meant for human consumption it is going to regulated by Federal laws (FDA) and State laws, (Dept. of agriculture) as well as local zoning regulations, none of which are likely to allow residential garage growing of legal commercially sell able MJ.

And I have pointed out that there will still be a large market for black market MJ. (Minors, probationers, parolees, and those who want the high potency stuff. (which makes them way cooler).

The problem with trying to compare legalization to Prohibition is that prohibition impacted a well established well regulated big business that already existed. the repeal of prohibition simply put things back the way they were.

And contrary to popular belief bootleg alcohol was not the dominate source of alcohol during prohibition. the largest portion of alcohol was that which was legally purchased in Canada and smuggled into the U.S. and legally purchased denatured alcohol that organized crime tried to make drinkable. (resulting in many deaths).

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:09
The "infrastructure" for illegal and untaxed growing and the black market itself is in place, now given (as everybody keeps saying) it is so easy to do, does your experience in human naturetell you people, that have been so willing to participate in the Black Market, are just going to rush towards paying taxes?
it seemed to go okay after prohibition. that evolved into a very lucrative industry.

the WA state board of liquor will regulate taxes....

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:11
Regulating a legal marijuana industry is going to take far less government than what we are currently using in order to keep marijuana prohibited.

I think you are sadly mistaken in that regard. Legalized MJ is going to fall under regulations from the FDA, State depts of agriculture, State depts of revenue, etc

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:13
a lot of questions regarding taxation and governing agencies would answered if some of you would read the 4 provisions outlined in the legislation.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:14
it seemed to go okay after prohibition. that evolved into a very lucrative industry.

the WA state board of liquor will regulate taxes....

As I pointed out in my previous post repealing prohibition did not create a new big business alcohol infrastructure. That already existed and simply went back into force with prohibitions repeal.

So no, there was no, "evolved" into a lucrative business. there was only reinstated a lucrative legitimate business.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:14
The problem with trying to compare legalization to Prohibition is that prohibition impacted a well established well regulated big business that already existed. the repeal of prohibition simply put things back the way they were.

Businesses will have no problem establishing themselves in a new legal marketplace.

The dispensaries seem to be doing ok when not being shut down by the feds.

The comparisons are valid. I suspect you are intelligent enough to understand, but just too invested in your position to ever acknowledge as much.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:15
I think you are sadly mistaken in that regard. Legalized MJ is going to fall under regulations from the FDA, State depts of agriculture, State depts of revenue, etc

the thing is, prohibition doesnt create a huge income like legalization and taxation does...

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 14:16
Also that government increase, if any will be on the state level not Federal.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


I highly doubt the feds are gonna stay out of it... Have you seen the federal taxes on the other vices? Alcohol, gambling, tobacco and now tanning salons via the health care tax. You really can't believe the feds will stay out of it...

ETA: not to mention the federal regulation agencies that Dragoon has already pointed out.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:17
Also that government increase, if any will be on the state level not Federal.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

A product meant for human consumption is going to be subject to Federal FDA regulations and enforcement.

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 14:17
I suspect you are intelligent enough to understand, but just too invested in your position to ever acknowledge as much.

Invested in a paycheck (he's either current or former LEO iirc).

Monetary interest creates bias. WoD fuels police coffers.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:19
the thing is, prohibition doesnt create a huge income like legalization and taxation does...

Only in a perfect walgreen world is Govt. regulation efficient and cost effective.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:20
I think you are sadly mistaken in that regard. Legalized MJ is going to fall under regulations from the FDA, State depts of agriculture, State depts of revenue, etc

Get real.

If alcohol was prohibited just like marijuana is, we'd be using far more resources in the "war on alcohol" then we currently spend regulating it as a legal product.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:20
Amazing what you learn from the dopers on the internet.
:rofl::rofl:

you are the one using doper lingo so naturally, not I.

I myself, am not a pot user. not my thing. plus, my chosen career fields arent exactly drug friendly...

i am an advocate of personal freedoms in the USA, and will defend them against the old and new who seek to abolish them.

DaleGribble
12-06-2012, 14:21
It'll take a few days or weeks...
Then we'll see debauchery on a scale previously unimagined, maybe even... dancing.

Everyone here at GT with an opinion on the matter should post in this thread and register their prediction about the eventual fate of Washington now that marijuana has been legalized at the state/local level.

Now we have an opportunity, lets see just how evil that stuff is really.

Lawlessness?
Rampant laziness and total lack of productivity?
Total breakdown of civilization and society?
Place your bets!

Put me down for nothing happening. The only thing that will change is less arrests for possession. Weed might have been illegal before but people still toked, the same people, and quite a few more, will still toke an be fine.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:21
Invested in a paycheck (he's either current or former LEO iirc).

Monetary interest creates bias. WoD fuels police coffers.

of course the WOD is so profitable that is why depts everywhere have hiring freezes and reductions in staff and even Depts. being closed down altogether.

:upeyes:

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:21
Only in a perfect walgreen world is Govt. regulation efficient and cost effective.

Prohibition is regulation.

In one of its most extreme forms, in fact.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:25
of course the WOD is so profitable that is why depts everywhere have hiring freezes and reductions in staff and even Depts. being closed down altogether.

:upeyes:

as they should be. why spend tax dollars to seek out, prosecute, and imprison domestic users and growers?

countrygun
12-06-2012, 14:26
:rofl::rofl:

you are the one using doper lingo so naturally, not I.

I myself, am not a pot user. not my thing. plus, my chosen career fields arent exactly drug friendly...

i am an advocate of personal freedoms in the USA, and will defend them against the old and new who seek to abolish them.

Strange, I don't recall saying I learned it from you, and your statement begs the question

"then how did you know what I was talking about?"

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:26
Get real.

If alcohol was prohibited just like marijuana is, we'd be using far more resources in the "war on alcohol" then we currently spend regulating it as a legal product.

I don't think you have much of a Grip on reality. There are plenty of enforcement agents that enforce the current regulation on legal legal alcohol.

if Alcohol were prohibited they would switch to enforcing that prohibition. And they would do it the same way they did it during prohibition. utilizing local LE when needed.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:29
There are plenty of enforcement agents that enforce the current regulation on legal legal alcohol.

And if we suddenly prohibited all alcohol at the national level the size and scope of those operations would increase dramatically.

They would have to in response to the gigantic explosion in the black market.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:31
Strange, I don't recall saying I learned it from you, and your statement begs the question

"then how did you know what I was talking about?"

you caught me

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:36
And if we suddenly prohibited all alcohol at the national level the size and scope of those operations would increase dramatically.

They would have to in response to the gigantic explosion in the black market.

What would explode is the regulatory (bureaucratic) portion of those agencies. The enforcement agents are always much less.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:37
I don't think you have much of a Grip on reality. There are plenty of enforcement agents that enforce the current regulation on legal legal alcohol.

if Alcohol were prohibited they would switch to enforcing that prohibition. And they would do it the same way they did it during prohibition. utilizing local LE when needed.

so you are okay with using resources to prohibit, but not to legalize?

the smell of freedom :upeyes:

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:38
What would explode is the regulatory (bureaucratic) portion of those agencies. The enforcement agents are always much less.

So we would be using more government resources, as I had said.

You just tried to use a semantic game to win a battle, but it cost you the war.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 14:38
And if we suddenly prohibited at the national level the size and scope of those operations would increase dramatically.

We do not have a major Federal enforcement project against MJ going on. Generally the major arrests are made cuncurrent with other drug investigations or with the attempt to have some control over the border.

Those efforts will still go on so any further regulatory officers will be an increase in the number of enforcers. Even in the case of agencies that are shrinking, the numbers will be picked back up in the regulatory end so it isn't going to reduce the number of LEOs involved at all.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 14:46
We do not have a major Federal enforcement project against MJ going on.

The DEA disagrees.

http://www.justice.gov/dea/ops/cannabis.shtml

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:47
so you are okay with using resources to prohibit, but not to legalize?

the smell of freedom :upeyes:

I don't recall expressing an opinion on that. What I have expressed an opinion on is the utopian day dreams that some have put forward which have no basis in common sense, logic, or reality.

as far a "freedom" and "Liberty" I doubt you and I view them the same. Yours seems to be that they mean "Freedom to do as you please" to gratify your every whim. The founding Fathers considered that Licentiousness and Anarchy.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:51
I don't recall expressing an opinion on that. What I have expressed an opinion on is the utopian day dreams that some have put forward which have no basis in common sense, logic, or reality.

as far a "freedom" and "Liberty" I doubt you and I view them the same. Yours seems to be that they mean "Freedom to do as you please" to gratify your every whim. The founding Fathers considered that Licentiousness and Anarchy.

so what you are saying is that even with the huge influcks of money coming in the form of pot revenue, prohibition is still the more cost effective option? thats pretty much what ive gathered.

im being serious. i am trying to understand what you are saying.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:51
So we would be using more government resources, as I had said.

You just tried to use a semantic game to win a battle, but it cost you the war.

What you are overlooking is that legalization Of MJ brings in a host of govt. regulatory agencies (both Federal and State) into the game that are not presently involved. THAT is whee the increases will occur.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 14:56
I don't recall expressing an opinion on that. What I have expressed an opinion on is the utopian day dreams that some have put forward which have no basis in common sense, logic, or reality.

as far a "freedom" and "Liberty" I doubt you and I view them the same. Yours seems to be that they mean "Freedom to do as you please" to gratify your every whim. The founding Fathers considered that Licentiousness and Anarchy.

Exactly. It isn't a "personal" issue to me although some try to paint it that way much like crying "Racism" to shift the argument away from logic and reasoning by personalizing it.

We have a President who is taking away every working persons freedom to keep what they have earned and to force a health care system on them, and these jokers want to talk about their contribution to "freedom" because people in two States can get high without breaking a State law.:upeyes:

Yes they are certainly "freedom fighters" alright:upeyes:

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 14:58
so what you are saying is that even with the huge influcks of money coming in the form of pot revenue, prohibition is still the more cost effective option? thats pretty much what ive gathered.

im being serious. i am trying to understand what you are saying.

You speak of huge Revenue which is entirely theoretical. equally theoretical is the belief that those revenues would be far greater than the cost of regulation.

I am not convinced that such is going to be the case or that legalization is going to greatly reduce the black market ( for reasons I have posted previously)

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 14:59
What you are overlooking is that legalization Of MJ brings in a host of govt. regulatory agencies (both Federal and State) into the game that are not presently involved. THAT is whee the increases will occur.

I'd rather have the gov regulate and tax lawful sales...

than shove people into prison.

WoD costs far more, and creates a far more damaging bureaucracy (damaging to civil rights).

Plus... it's racist :tongueout:

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 14:59
Exactly. It isn't a "personal" issue to me although some try to paint it that way much like crying "Racism" to shift the argument away from logic and reasoning by personalizing it.

We have a President who is taking away every working persons freedom to keep what they have earned and to force a health care system on them, and these jokers want to talk about their contribution to "freedom" because people in two States can get high without breaking a State law.:upeyes:

Yes they are certainly "freedom fighters" alright:upeyes:

i did just as much as you did. i voted. probably not the way you'd assume either.

randrew379
12-06-2012, 15:00
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

You seem to have bought in to the Drug Warrior mentality unquestioningly. This is not a criticism; many others have also. However, the anti-cannabis crowd is quick to tout any study that supports its agenda, no matter how shoddy the research; and it has shown a willingness to outright lie when it suits its purpose. These days, the media also seem to print only the negative.

You mention impaired driving. There was a study some years back that suggested that marijuana use did not significantly impair driving ability- I bet you saw nothing of that study. Granted, that's just one study; but my personal experience tends to confirm it(I came of age in the 70s- I make no apologies).

You also mention cancer. For years we've been hearing how cannabis is more carcinogenic than tobacco, even though the research was somewhat suspect. Within the past month, experimental results were released that indicate that this absolutely false. I'm guessing that you didn't see that one in your local paper.

Now, take another recent study that got a lot of ink and is the topic of a recent thread on this forum. This one seems to show that marijuana can be harmful to the DEVELOPING brain. All the antis jumped on this, yet my take on the study is that marijuana poses little risk to mature adults.

I take it that you're LE. Perhaps legalization will pose some issues for you guys, but I believe firmly that there is little to fear in it. Indeed, if it ameliorates the problems associated with heavy drinking, it may prove to be quite beneficial.



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Lampshade
12-06-2012, 15:02
What you are overlooking is that legalization Of MJ brings in a host of govt. regulatory agencies (both Federal and State) into the game that are not presently involved. THAT is whee the increases will occur.

Do you seriously think the government (all levels) devotes more resources to regulating the alcohol industry than it does to the prohibition of marijuana?

Please.

There will be new positions and departments created, but even more can be eliminated.

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 15:03
I am not convinced that... legalization is going to greatly reduce the black market

You must be high.

dango
12-06-2012, 15:19
While everyone is seeing "Pots Heads" running a-muck in the streets , I'm looking at the pharmaceutical implications toward
cures for terminal "cancer and other life threatening things.

Someone very close to me has been stricken , my wife and I have done much research.I'm sick of the lies ! Think what you will but,at least know what the reality is and just how much money would be lost if a cure were found!

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 15:20
Do you seriously think the government (all levels) devotes more resources to regulating the alcohol industry than it does to the prohibition of marijuana?

Please.

There will be new positions and departments created, but even more can be eliminated.

When has that ever happened? Did government get smaller when prohibition ended?

SPIN2010
12-06-2012, 15:40
Lawlessness?
Rampant laziness and total lack of productivity?
Total breakdown of civilization and society?
Place your bets!


Sounds so familiar? Where have I experienced that exact observation? Ah! Yes, the .GOV of the somewhat united states.

Wow! So, that is what is happening in DC this past one hundred years. I knew it was not natural man just doing what he does best ... mess it up with greed.

It's the WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!
:rofl:

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 15:46
Did government get smaller when prohibition ended?

Government as a whole got larger, but that's due to a myriad of reasons well beyond the scope of this discussion.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 16:00
You must be high.

No, I think it is you.

As many have pointed out growing is simple, it is much easier that running a still for instance. There is already a black market structure in place. These people have been growing and dodging the law for years FOR PROFIT not as some noble "freedom fighters" they are mercenaries. Nothing in my knowledge of human behavior tells me they are suddenly 'go legit" and hsppily pay taxes when they are already accustomed to keeping all their illegal profits.

Bear in mind MJ is probably the largest cash crop in my County and there are large grows, I know some of the operators, (small town, you know everyone) they aren't planning on "sharing the wealth".

I think the users have set themselves up for a whole lot of unintended consequences. In our area the small misdemeanor fine was considered the "stupidity tax" now they have opened themselves up to Government regulation. Anyone with a grasp of history can tell you that Genie never fits back in the bottle.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 16:00
Do you seriously think the government (all levels) devotes more resources to regulating the alcohol industry than it does to the prohibition of marijuana?

Please.

There will be new positions and departments created, but even more can be eliminated.

The DEA is not going to be eliminated because of MJ being legalized. Won't even be reduced in size.

Legalized regulated Mj is going to require more Federal inspectors and support staff (FDA) More state inspectors and support staff (Dept. of agriculture, Dept. of Revenue)

There will be no elimination or reduction of current drug enforcement\regulation staff there will only be increase in regulation\enforcement staff among various Federal and State agencies when tasked with regulation and enforcement of MJ ( something they had not previously been doing.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 16:02
The DEA is not going to be eliminated because of MJ being legalized. Won't even be reduced in size.

Legalized regulated Mj is going to require more Federal inspectors and support staff (FDA) More state inspectors and support staff (Dept. of agriculture, Dept. of Revenue)

There will be no elimination or reduction of current drug enforcement\regulation staff there will only be increase in regulation\enforcement staff among various Federal and State agencies when tasked with regulation and enforcement of MJ ( something they had not previously been doing.

Somehow the FDA will get a piece of the action as well.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 16:06
Government as a whole got larger, but that's due to a myriad of reasons well beyond the scope of this discussion.

So that would be a no...

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 16:07
The DEA is not going to be eliminated because of MJ being legalized. Won't even be reduced in size.

Legalized regulated Mj is going to require more Federal inspectors and support staff (FDA) More state inspectors and support staff (Dept. of agriculture, Dept. of Revenue)

There will be no elimination or reduction of current drug enforcement\regulation staff there will only be increase in regulation\enforcement staff among various Federal and State agencies when tasked with regulation and enforcement of MJ ( something they had not previously been doing.

Unfortunately you bring up some good points.

That being said, a bloated bureaucracy dedicated to regulating all the various aspects of a legal market is far preferable to one dedicated primarily to locking people up.

I'd much rather pay taxes which pay a government health inspector's salary to ensure that commercially produced cannabis is free of spores than to pay to have some smoker locked up in a futile, never-ending war on drugs.

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 16:19
Unfortunately you bring up some good points.

That being said, a bloated bureaucracy dedicated to regulating all the various aspects of a legal market is far preferable to one dedicated primarily to locking people up.

I'd much rather pay taxes which pay a government health inspector's salary to ensure that commercially produced cannabis is free of spores than to pay to have some smoker locked up in a futile, never-ending war on drugs.

The problem here is the legalization faction (Not talking about you personally) has promoted the myth that our jails are overflowing with people incarcerated for smoking MJ. Which is not true.

What they do is simply count the number of people with drug convictions and claim they are imprisoned solely for that offense.

The truth is that the vast majority of those convictions come about as a result of "Search after lawful arrest". They have been arrested on OTHER charges and then drugs were found on them or in their possession and that charge was added as well.

You would be hard pressed to find anyone even doing serious Jail time, much less prison time simply for smoking MJ alone.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 16:21
Unfortunately you bring up some good points.

That being said, a bloated bureaucracy dedicated to regulating all the various aspects of a legal market is far preferable to one dedicated primarily to locking people up.

I'd much rather pay taxes which pay a government health inspector's salary to ensure that commercially produced cannabis is free of spores than to pay to have some smoker locked up in a futile, never-ending war on drugs.

Right. So you are for a larger, more expansive, and more expensive government so you can smoke MJ...that's all I wanted to hear...

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 16:24
Right. So you are for a larger, more expansive, and more expensive government so you can smoke MJ...that's all I wanted to hear...

Do you support making alcohol illegal?

No?

So I guess its fair to say that you support a larger, more expansive, and more expensive government so people can drink.

(Not to mention the fact that you're ignoring the whole revenue generating aspect of legal pot.)

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 16:31
Do you support making alcohol illegal?

No?

So I guess its fair to say that you support a larger, more expansive, and more expensive government so people can drink.

(Not to mention the fact that you're ignoring the whole revenue generating aspect of legal pot.)

No...if you actually read my posts I'm for removing all the taxes on alcohol except for the local sales tax customary on all products sold...

You are ignoring the fact that the revenues generated by the legal sales of MJ will not cover the bureaucracy it creates...

You appear to be the classic liberal. You've never met a tax you didn't like..

I want a smaller, less intrusive government in ALL aspects...I'm not interested in trading the legalization of MJ for more taxes and a bigger government..

countrygun
12-06-2012, 16:42
Oh the "freedom talker" really make me laugh when they start comparing alcohol taxes to the MJ situation. Their lack of knowledge about history is simply incredible.

Do any of them have any idea who the biggest supporters of the regulation and taxes, after prohibition were?

It was the large distilleries who were glad to open back up and meet the regulations and taxes, which they passed on to the consumer anyway, because they supported a FEDERAL agency that put their small local competition out of business. They, in effect, put local entrepenuers out of business with their own Federal strongmen.

The legal consumer paid for it with the taxes passed on. That Dept of the treaury grew into the ATF, which became the BATFE, which is headed to being, eventually the BATFEM. Sure we need to help that agency grow in the name of "Freedom"

Lampshade
12-06-2012, 16:44
No...if you actually read my posts I'm for removing all the taxes on alcohol except for the local sales tax customary on all products sold...

You are ignoring the fact that the revenues generated by the legal sales of MJ will not cover the bureaucracy it creates...

You appear to be the classic liberal. You've never met a tax you didn't like..

I want a smaller, less intrusive government in ALL aspects...I'm not interested in trading the legalization of MJ for more taxes and a bigger government..

I have no problem paying taxes to fund legitimate government functions like inspecting consumables and everything else that goes into regulating a first world economy.

It is certainly preferable to having my taxes go to a futile drug war.

Some people bend more towards pragmatism, some towards idealism. Just the way it is.

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 16:44
Oh the "freedom talker" really make me laugh when they start comparing alcohol taxes to the MJ situation. Their lack of knowledge about history is simply incredible.

Do any of them have any idea who the biggest supporters of the regulation and taxes, after prohibition were?

It was the large distilleries who were glad to open back up and meet the regulations and taxes, which they passed on to the consumer anyway, because they supported a FEDERAL agency that put their small local competition out of business. They, in effect, put local entrepenuers out of business with their own Federal strongmen.

The legal consumer paid for it with the taxes passed on. That Dept of the treaury grew into the ATF, which became the BATFE, which is headed to being, eventually the BATFEM. Sure we need to help that agency grow in the name of "Freedom"


Ding ding ding..I figured you got it CG...

whoflungdo
12-06-2012, 16:47
Oh the "freedom talker" really make me laugh when they start comparing alcohol taxes to the MJ situation. Their lack of knowledge about history is simply incredible.

Do any of them have any idea who the biggest supporters of the regulation and taxes, after prohibition were?

It was the large distilleries who were glad to open back up and meet the regulations and taxes, which they passed on to the consumer anyway, because they supported a FEDERAL agency that put their small local competition out of business. They, in effect, put local entrepenuers out of business with their own Federal strongmen.

The legal consumer paid for it with the taxes passed on. That Dept of the treaury grew into the ATF, which became the BATFE, which is headed to being, eventually the BATFEM. Sure we need to help that agency grow in the name of "Freedom"


Wait...so "they" are supporting big government and big business...oh the Irony...:rofl:

holesinpaper
12-06-2012, 16:50
The DEA is not going to be eliminated because of MJ being legalized. Won't even be reduced in size.

It would be nice to see them shift resources away from MJ enforcement and toward Meth, Coke, Heroin, and other hard drugs.

chewybaca67
12-06-2012, 16:54
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

That's what I back up.
The only thing worse than an Anti-gun leftist, is a whiny-ass pot head trying evade responsibility.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 17:11
It would be nice to see them shift resources away from MJ enforcement and toward Meth, Coke, Heroin, and other hard drugs.

You don't listen well. There ISN'T a lot of money going in to MJ enforcement at all. Samll arrest and large "busts" are a result of investigations involving the drugs you want enforcement against, or concurrent and coincidental to other crimes being investigated.

When a Border Partol agent sees "mules" coming across the border they have no idea what they are carrying, sometimes it's pot and then you hear about a "big Bust" but the BP Agents weren't on a 'Marijuana" operation.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 17:30
No, I think it is you.

As many have pointed out growing is simple, it is much easier that running a still for instance. There is already a black market structure in place. These people have been growing and dodging the law for years FOR PROFIT not as some noble "freedom fighters" they are mercenaries. Nothing in my knowledge of human behavior tells me they are suddenly 'go legit" and hsppily pay taxes when they are already accustomed to keeping all their illegal profits.

Bear in mind MJ is probably the largest cash crop in my County and there are large grows, I know some of the operators, (small town, you know everyone) they aren't planning on "sharing the wealth".

I think the users have set themselves up for a whole lot of unintended consequences. In our area the small misdemeanor fine was considered the "stupidity tax" now they have opened themselves up to Government regulation. Anyone with a grasp of history can tell you that Genie never fits back in the bottle.

valid point, but dont you think many would comply simply for the elimination of the risk at the least the state level?

inthefrey
12-06-2012, 17:44
You mean like this?
Biblical Proportions - YouTube

countrygun
12-06-2012, 18:05
valid point, but dont you think many would comply simply for the elimination of the risk at the least the state level?

No because there is very little State risk at this point. They are already making an illegal profit with low risk Unless we massively increase the budget for enforcement to force tax compliance, which is exactly the opposite effect that the "dreamers" are promising us.

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 18:10
No because there is very little State risk at this point. They are already making an illegal profit with low risk Unless we massively increase the budget for enforcement to force tax compliance, which is exactly the opposite effect that the "dreamers" are promising us.

does anyone know the amount of marijuana arrests that are state vs federal?

*edit* arrests for manufacturing

i couldnt find any quick stats that werent from some biased pot website.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 18:18
Regardless of how much some of our "law and order" friends want to jump up and down and run around screaming, in two states legalization passed. The states will no longer enforce MJ laws. People did not agree with the laws and they had the laws changed the legal and proper way. I expect to see more states to follow.

It is funny to see how the "law and order" like the law ans system until the law and system is used to change the law then they get all butt hurt.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 18:24
Regardless of how much some of our "law and order" friends want to jump up and down and run around screaming, in two states legalization passed. The states will no longer enforce MJ laws. People did not agree with the laws and they had the laws changed the legal and proper way. I expect to see more states to follow.

It is funny to see how the "law and order" like the law ans system until the law and system is used to change the law then they get all butt hurt.

You are misrepresenting the situation completely. There still will be Marijuana laws in regards to minors won't there? There still will be laws about in public won't there? Now they also have tax regulations (uhm that means LAWS) to enforce won't they?

Your simplistic summary FAILS.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 18:41
You are misrepresenting the situation completely. There still will be Marijuana laws in regards to minors won't there? There still will be laws about in public won't there? Now they also have tax regulations (uhm that means LAWS) to enforce won't they?

Your simplistic summary FAILS.

:rofl::rofl:

Whatever. You cant seem to handle the fact that people didnt agree with the laws and they used the laws and system to change the laws. You might not like it, but the changes to the laws passed. You can jump up and down and scream and cry, but it doesnt change what the voters voted for. You lose. Jump up and down, scream and cry and see if the laws that were voted in change for you. My money says the voters dont give a damn about what you think.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 18:47
:rofl::rofl:

Whatever.

Yes the "Idiocracy answer"


You cant seem to handle the fact that people didnt agree with the laws and they used the laws and system to change the laws. You might not like it, but the changes to the laws passed. You can jump up and down and scream and cry, but it doesnt change what the voters voted for. You lose. Jump up and down, scream and cry and see if the laws that were voted in change for you. My money says the voters dont give a damn about what you think.

I have no problem whatsoever with people changing the laws. What you can't come to terms with is the fact that the consequences will not be as predicted. My State turned the same thing down BTW, so I guess our voter do care.

You were wrong about the laws, you talked out of your tailpipe and your response is "whatever"

You remind me that the voters in the States that legalized also voted for Obama.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 18:50
I have no problem whatsoever with people changing the laws. What you can't come to terms with is the fact that the consequences will not be as predicted. My State turned the same thing down BTW, so I guess our voter do care.

You were wrong about the laws, you talked out of your tailpipe and your response is "whatever"

You remind me that the voters in the States that legalized also voted for Obama.

No, you simply cant read. Go back and read my post. Funny that someone who cannot read calls others idiots.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 19:06
No, you simply cant read. Go back and read my post. Funny that someone who cannot read calls others idiots.

Lets look at some of your gems of wisdom.

"The states will no longer enforce MJ laws"


Yes that was a brilliant misrepresentation of the truth.

"My money says the voters dont give a damn about what you think"

and once again you speak out your backhole, overlooking the fact that my State rejected legalization in the same election.

You have a habit of putting out your declarations about how you THINK things are and then trying to bully them in to being with bluster and bravado. you generally fail. Just as you failed at guessing my motivations and beliefs.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 19:23
Lets look at some of your gems of wisdom.

"The states will no longer enforce MJ laws"


Yes that was a brilliant misrepresentation of the truth.

"My money says the voters dont give a damn about what you think"

and once again you speak out your backhole, overlooking the fact that my State rejected legalization in the same election.

You have a habit of putting out your declarations about how you THINK things are and then trying to bully them in to being with bluster and bravado. you generally fail. Just as you failed at guessing my motivations and beliefs.

The voters DIDNT give a damn what you think.

Here you go:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21941918/nation-watches-colorados-marijuana-legalization-vote

They didnt and still do give a damn about your opinion.

And since they voted to legalize the states (CO and WA) will not be enforcing laws that make MJ illegal That does not mean the feds wont, but state level LEO will not.

Sucks to be you. The laws changed. We dont give a damn what you think about it. Jump up and down and scream. See if it changes anything. It wont. But you can jump up and down and scream and holler.

Go ahead. Jump and down. Scream too. Some of this old thinking is out and personal liberty is winning.

DanaT
12-06-2012, 19:26
You have a habit of putting out your declarations about how you THINK things are

Get a clue. How I THINK THING ARE is what was voted in. People are allowed recreational use of MJ in two states. You might not like that, but guess what. That is HOW THINGS ARE.


Here is how i THINK things are and how they ARE:

IN THE INTEREST OF THE EFFICIENT USE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES, ENHANCING REVENUE FOR PUBLIC PURPOSES, AND INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF COLORADO FIND AND DECLARE THAT THE USE OF MARIJUANA SHOULD BE LEGAL FOR PERSONS TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER AND TAXED IN A MANNER SIMILAR TO ALCOHOL.

Got that?

Restless28
12-06-2012, 19:32
I dig State's rights.

Hooray for the 10th Amendment!

countrygun
12-06-2012, 19:35
Get a clue. How I THINK THING ARE is what was voted in. People are allowed recreational use of MJ in two states. You might not like that, but guess what. That is HOW THINGS ARE.


Here is how i THINK things are and how they ARE:

IN THE INTEREST OF THE EFFICIENT USE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT RESOURCES, ENHANCING REVENUE FOR PUBLIC PURPOSES, AND INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF COLORADO FIND AND DECLARE THAT THE USE OF MARIJUANA SHOULD BE LEGAL FOR PERSONS TWENTY-ONE YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER AND TAXED IN A MANNER SIMILAR TO ALCOHOL.

Got that?

So your statement about not enforcing the MJ laws WAS incorrect, they will just be enforcing DIFFERENT MJ laws.

Or is that too complicated for you?

Dragoon44
12-06-2012, 19:36
And since they voted to legalize the states (CO and WA) will not be enforcing laws that make MJ illegal That does not mean the feds wont, but state level LEO will not.

Neither Colorado nor Washington "Legalized" Marijuana. What they did is decriminalize possession of an ounce or less. In the case of Washington they went further than other states that have done similarly and mandated taxation and regulation of the commercial growth and distribution of Marijuana.

certifiedfunds
12-06-2012, 19:42
I dig State's rights.

Hooray for the 10th Amendment!

And the 9th Amendment too!

certifiedfunds
12-06-2012, 19:43
For a fairly conservative board there sure are a lot of big government Progressives around here.......:dunno:

Restless28
12-06-2012, 19:53
For a fairly conservative board there sure are a lot of big government Progressives around here.......:dunno:

Can I get an Amen?!!

certifiedfunds
12-06-2012, 20:11
Can I get an Amen?!!

Pass the collection plate

costanza187
12-06-2012, 20:42
...as White Castle expands with franchises on the west coast

98LS-WON
12-06-2012, 21:03
I'm pretty sure anyone who ants to smoke weed already does. I don't think anything is going change.

ARP
12-06-2012, 21:10
You are joking right? I mean everyone knows that pot heads will not start killing people until they realize that twinkies are gone.....



You have to wait for the munchies to kick in!!

the twinkies really are all gone!!

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 21:35
I'm pretty sure anyone who ants to smoke weed already does. I don't think anything is going change.

agreed. i dont think there will be a a ton of new users just because its now legal.

there are very few people who abstain from mj use strictly because it was formerly illegal.

most dont use for moral, employment, health, non-interest, and other reasons.

ChuteTheMall
12-06-2012, 21:46
agreed. i dont think there will be a a ton of new users just because its now legal.

there are very few people who abstain from mj use strictly because it was formerly illegal.

most dont use for moral, employment, health, non-interest, and other reasons.

Is that because potheads are criminals by nature, with no respect for illegalities?

Dubble-Tapper
12-06-2012, 21:55
Is that because potheads are criminals by nature, with no respect for illegalities?

yeah, that must be it.

certifiedfunds
12-06-2012, 21:56
Is that because potheads are criminals by nature, with no respect for illegalities?

I can't speak for potheads but I certainly don't respect illegalities just because they're illegal.

ChuteTheMall
12-06-2012, 22:20
I can't speak for potheads but I certainly don't respect illegalities just because they're illegal.

If natural born criminals aren't drawn to marijuana, maybe smoking weed alters the normal personality into a scofflaw.

:therapy:

*ASH*
12-06-2012, 22:31
munchiesssssssssssssss

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/KK_Koala/black_a996ba_2297350.gif

Fiery Red XIII
12-06-2012, 22:51
While everyone is seeing "Pots Heads" running a-muck in the streets , I'm looking at the pharmaceutical implications toward
cures for terminal "cancer and other life threatening things.

Someone very close to me has been stricken , my wife and I have done much research.I'm sick of the lies ! Think what you will but,at least know what the reality is and just how much money would be lost if a cure were found!

Marijuana cures cancer? Really?!? Terminal anything usually isn't considered curable and terminal at the same time...they kind of mean the opposite.

Red

countrygun
12-06-2012, 22:56
Marijuana cures cancer? Really?!? Terminal anything usually isn't considered curable and terminal at the same time...they kind of mean the opposite.

Red

Now you know. there you go uhmmm, harshing his mellow with all that "meaning of words" stuff, you uhm...know what he means, it's all good, Dude

Atlas
12-06-2012, 23:02
Well I'll be the first to declare IBTL here...

As always, this topic inspires mostly personal attacks and expressions of attitude and prejudice presented as fact in the absence of knowledge.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 23:18
Well I'll be the first to declare IBTL here...

As always, this topic inspires mostly personal attacks and expressions of attitude and prejudice presented as fact in the absence of knowledge.

Well many non-users have said they aren't against decriminalization and think it should be a State issue. But they point out problems, that are very real, to legalization and taxing and maybe even physical effects.

in return, from the "legalizers" they get

But it cures cancer

legalizing will strike a blow for freedom and reduce the size of Government

it will make money for everyone



it doesn't have any uhm long uhm...Whut was the question?


You just don't want anyone to have any fun.

ilgunguygt
12-06-2012, 23:25
Now you know. there you go uhmmm, harshing his mellow with all that "meaning of words" stuff, you uhm...know what he means, it's all good, Dude
No problem seeing how you have amassed 8k posts since march of this year. Looking back they are all as filled with ignorance and attacks as this. Someday maybe you will grow up and be a productive member of a message forum.

countrygun
12-06-2012, 23:29
No problem seeing how you have amassed 8k posts since march of this year. Looking back they are all as filled with ignorance and attacks as this. Someday maybe you will grow up and be a productive member of a message forum.

Are you naturally judgmental, insecure or just completely lacking in anything useful about the topic?
You can't even summon up the wherewithal to attempt humor.

Very sad display and hardly a sign of anything worthwhile.

Just Butthurt.

Atlas
12-06-2012, 23:33
Are you naturally judgmental, insecure or just completely lacking in anything useful about the topic?
You can't even summon up the wherewithal to attempt humor.

Very sad display and hardly a sign of anything worthwhile.

Just Butthurt.

Or, he's just bored with you.

Fiery Red XIII
12-07-2012, 00:25
No problem seeing how you have amassed 8k posts since march of this year. Looking back they are all as filled with ignorance and attacks as this. Someday maybe you will grow up and be a productive member of a message forum.

How many here think pot cures cancer?...that is my point based on another post he was addressing.

Red

Fiery Red XIII
12-07-2012, 00:26
No problem seeing how you have amassed 8k posts since march of this year. Looking back they are all as filled with ignorance and attacks as this. Someday maybe you will grow up and be a productive member of a message forum.

Does pot cure cancer? that is what his post you are quoting refers (not reefers) to... (eta) TERMINAL cancer...

Red

holesinpaper
12-07-2012, 01:14
How many here think pot cures cancer?...that is my point based on another post he was addressing.

Red

You know tree bark (https://www.google.com/search?q=tree+bark+cancer+cure&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) does right?

Nature, it's amazing.

M1a65
12-07-2012, 01:43
Pot doesn't cure cancer, death usually cures cancer. What MJ does do is lessen the effects of cancer (pain & nausea) and possibly give the user a more healthy appetite and higher quality of life (pardon the pun)...

I'm not fond of alcohol/cigs but they are legal thou far more destructive than MJ. I've never seen a pot head get high and wanna start a fight or act like a typical dip**** drunkard with beer muscles or toss a cig out a car window and cause a brush fire. I doubt many MJ users went to bed with a 10 and woke up with a 3 either! Nor have I ever saw a pot head vomiting everywhere and anywhere after partying up. Regulate it (21 and up and same rules as alcohol), tax it, create jobs for growers & sales (coffee shops). The tax income was told to be able to pay off the deficite in 144 years with Californian sales alone.
There will always be idiots that abuse a substance, legal or other, which will cause problems for others. Whether it be guns, booze or what have you. I'm sure laws will follow keeping America safe from ourselves. This should have a massive negitive effect on foriegn "importers" who are the real danger with MJ. Like porn, smoking, booze, drugs, if you don't like it don't do it... Simple as that.

airmotive
12-07-2012, 03:55
Is that because potheads are criminals by nature, with no respect for illegalities?

Yep...just like people who drive 57 in a 55.

airmotive
12-07-2012, 04:05
What you are overlooking is that legalization Of MJ brings in a host of govt. regulatory agencies (both Federal and State) into the game that are not presently involved. THAT is whee the increases will occur.

I'll lump your statement in with the "did government get bigger or smaller with the end of prohibition" post:

Answer: Government got bigger with the end of prohibition.
But that fact doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Government also got bigger with the beginning of prohibition too.
Just like it got bigger at the beginning of WW2...and continued growing after WW2 ended.
See a pattern here folks?
There is no getting government toothpaste back into its tube.

certifiedfunds
12-07-2012, 05:55
Are you naturally judgmental, insecure or just completely lacking in anything useful about the topic?
You can't even summon up the wherewithal to attempt humor.

Very sad display and hardly a sign of anything worthwhile.

Just Butthurt.

It has just become clear that you come down on the side of big government on almost every issue.

eracer
12-07-2012, 06:29
Two things:

What is going to happen when the first pothead slams into a family, killing them? Soccer moms' hearts will start bleeding.

Will potheads sue the state in 20-40 years when they have lung cancer? After all there is no such thing as "Big Marijuana" yet to sue with big pockets.

Who is advocating DWI here?

With today's potent marijuana strains, the vast majority of people who smoke only ingest about a gram a day at most - and most of them ingest much less than that. Contrast that with 20-40 cigarettes a day, and your argument becomes specious.

certifiedfunds
12-07-2012, 06:37
Who is advocating DWI here?

With today's potent marijuana strains, the vast majority of people who smoke only ingest about a gram a day at most - and most of them ingest much less than that. Contrast that with 20-40 cigarettes a day, and your argument becomes specious.

They can't get their head around it and the arguments become less and less rational. What if this and what if that.........

Fuhchrissakes, there is pot being consumed all across this country by people from all walks of life all day every day. You'd swear that by ceasing to handcuff people for it they were introducing it into society for the first time.

Atlas
12-07-2012, 06:47
They can't get their head around it and the arguments become less and less rational. What if this and what if that.........

Fuhchrissakes, there is pot being consumed all across this country by people from all walks of life all day every day. You'd swear that by ceasing to handcuff people for it they were introducing it into society for the first time.

Yep.
Seems totally obvious, but...

nmk
12-07-2012, 07:03
http://media.flexiety.com/images/SheShouldaSaidNo19487834_f.jpg

whoflungdo
12-07-2012, 07:14
It has just become clear that you come down on the side of big government on almost every issue.

Am I to infer that you are for big government on this issue or do you think decriminalizing, taxing, and regulating Marijuana will lessen the size of the government?

Lampshade
12-07-2012, 07:24
Am I to infer that you are for big government on this issue or do you think decriminalizing, taxing, and regulating Marijuana will lessen the size of the government?

Perhaps taxation and regulation isn't the perfect ideological solution you're looking for, but its damn well better than prohibition.

Atlas
12-07-2012, 07:25
Am I to infer that you are for big government on this issue or do you think decriminalizing, taxing, and regulating Marijuana will lessen the size of the government?

:popcorn:

(this is gonna be fun!)

DanaT
12-07-2012, 07:26
Did jumping up and down and screaming change the vote overnight or did two states still legalize MJ by popular vote?

Has the crime rate skyrocketed today?

whoflungdo
12-07-2012, 07:27
:popcorn:

(this is gonna be fun!)


I was wondering when that emoticon was going to be used in this thread... Surprised it took this long...

certifiedfunds
12-07-2012, 07:28
Am I to infer that you are for big government on this issue or do you think decriminalizing, taxing, and regulating Marijuana will lessen the size of the government?

Headcount is only one way of measuring the size of government. Regulation and intrusion into the private lives of citizens is arguably more important.

Besides, just decriminalize it. I never said you had to tax and regulate it. How come just because something gets decriminalized people automatically switch to "tax-n-regulate"?

certifiedfunds
12-07-2012, 07:29
Did jumping up and down and screaming change the vote overnight or did two states still legalize MJ by popular vote?

Has the crime rate skyrocketed today?

It just kills the law and order "conservatives" that the people of Washington and Colorado are governing themselves.

whoflungdo
12-07-2012, 07:30
Perhaps taxation and regulation isn't the perfect ideological solution you're looking for, but its damn well better than prohibition.


We all understand you are more than willing to have a larger government so you can smoke MJ without going to jail.

My question was posed to CF. I tend to agree with him on several topics and am trying to pick his brain on this particular subject...

certifiedfunds
12-07-2012, 07:31
Am I to infer that you are for big government on this issue or do you think decriminalizing, taxing, and regulating Marijuana will lessen the size of the government?

Decriminalize all drugs at the federal level. The feds still get dominion over importation.

Let the states decide for themselves, like the Constitution mandates.

Am I to infer that your are opposed to the Constitution as written?