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427
12-07-2012, 12:14
New Mexicans rush to obtain passports
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2858560.shtml?cat=504

Scores of New Mexicans are in a race against time to get a passport before the federal Real ID Act goes into effect on January 15th, 2013.
Starting that day, New Mexicans will not be allowed to use a driver's license as identification to get through airport security or enter a federal building.
The reason:

Essentially, the act states, federal agencies cannot accept state-issued driver's licenses or ID cards if the state does not meet minimum security standards, which include, "evidence that the applicant is a U.S. Citizen."

Since proof of citizenship is not required to get a license in New Mexico, the state does not meet that standard.
Thank you, Bill Richardson! You, and the Democratic run legislature, gave the gift that keeps giving.

akroguy
12-07-2012, 19:31
And, State Senator Michael Sanchez, the *****hole who blockades any attempts by Gov. Susana Martinez from fixing this problem, lives in my district. The sleazy bastard got re-elected. His law office is near my home. I make sure to show that he is number ONE with me every time I drive by.

New Mexico: we're not the third world, but you can see it from here.

TKM
12-07-2012, 19:47
I was often complimented on my command of the English language when travelling back east. (born in NY, school in NM)

Wish I'd obtained a passport back then.


It was pretty easy to get a NMDL just driving up to Lovington with an extra $20 back then.

Cheaper than paying a speeding ticket. Who do you want to be today?

PaulMason
12-07-2012, 19:56
New Mexicans rush to obtain passports
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2858560.shtml?cat=504

The reason:

Thank you, Bill Richardson! You, and the Democratic run legislature, gave the gift that keeps giving.

Will Mexican driver licenses work?

nursetim
12-07-2012, 21:37
My wife, from Thailand, said Santa Fe was a third world country unto itself except without the open sewer. NM is the worst place I've lived. Let's give it back to Mexico.

barbedwiresmile
12-08-2012, 07:04
The issue here is the Real ID Act - needing a social security card and birth certificate to obtain a state drivers license that meets federal criteria. Absurd! Good for NM for not kowtowing to the Feds. Bad for NM that her citizens are too thick to see the real problem here. I dread the day when I have to renew my license in my state. I'll likely end up expired and cited. I can barely bring myself to renew my "registration" within a few months of expiration. But the important thing here is that the state gets it's tribute and someone in a three letter agency feels like they made a decision.

G17Jake
12-08-2012, 08:22
The issue here is the Real ID Act - needing a social security card and birth certificate to obtain a state drivers license that meets federal criteria. Absurd! Good for NM for not kowtowing to the Feds. Bad for NM that her citizens are too thick to see the real problem here. I dread the day when I have to renew my license in my state. I'll likely end up expired and cited. I can barely bring myself to renew my "registration" within a few months of expiration. But the important thing here is that the state gets it's tribute and someone in a three letter agency feels like they made a decision.

How do you prevent illegal immigrants from getting DLs?

This as about New Mexico... NM is a border state. Only 40% of the population are white non-Hispanic people. This means it is hard to tell someone who just walked across the border from most New Mexicans.

I don't want to make it easier for illegal aliens to become embedded into society… and voting…. And traveling around the US.

Proving residency and citizenship to obtain a DL doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me. There are circumstances where government isn’t necessarily bad. States issue DLs, so shouldn’t they make sure they are not giving them to illegal aliens?

Now if we want to come up with a much more secure border, maybe this wouldn’t be an issue.

I don’t want unnecessary government, but some government is needed.

Cavalry Doc
12-08-2012, 08:27
How do you prevent illegal immigrants from getting DLs?

This as about New Mexico... NM is a border state. Only 40% of the population are white non-Hispanic people. This means it is hard to tell someone who just walked across the border from most New Mexicans.

I don't want to make it easier for illegal aliens to become embedded into society… and voting…. And traveling around the US.

Proving residency and citizenship to obtain a DL doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me. There are circumstances where government isn’t necessarily bad. States issue DLs, so shouldn’t they make sure they are not giving them to illegal aliens?

Now if we want to come up with a much more secure border, maybe this wouldn’t be an issue.

I don’t want unnecessary government, but some government is needed.

When I got my first DL in Ohio about 28 years ago, you had to have a birth certificate. If you had a birth certificate that showed you were born in another country, you had to have proof of citizenship. No birth certificate, no DL. You had to get one. But hell, now you can be president without one. :whistling:

This also recently impacted my daughter when she was getting her CHL. She was born in Germany, so we also had to show the US consulate and German birth certificates. I threw in a couple sets of orders to show that we were stationed there at the time of her birth.

barbedwiresmile
12-08-2012, 09:07
There will always be a reason to give up liberty to the state in exchange for a feeling of security. This is the history of modern times. And the absence of this pattern recognition is what allows the cycle to perpetuate. We lose liberty because we ask to lose it. It takes great courage to value liberty, broadly, more than one's specific pet issue or insecurity. As Americans, we have long lacked this courage. Pick an issue, and you'll find Americans willing to give up liberty to empower the state to regulate it. The sum total of each of these decisions makes up our broader and collective loss of liberty in this zero-sum game we play (and lose) with the state.

TK-421
12-08-2012, 10:12
How do you prevent illegal immigrants from getting DLs?

This as about New Mexico... NM is a border state. Only 40% of the population are white non-Hispanic people. This means it is hard to tell someone who just walked across the border from most New Mexicans.

I don't want to make it easier for illegal aliens to become embedded into society… and voting…. And traveling around the US.

Proving residency and citizenship to obtain a DL doesn't sound like such a bad thing to me. There are circumstances where government isn’t necessarily bad. States issue DLs, so shouldn’t they make sure they are not giving them to illegal aliens?

Now if we want to come up with a much more secure border, maybe this wouldn’t be an issue.

I don’t want unnecessary government, but some government is needed.


:agree:

Make it as difficult as possible for illegals to get ID. Besides, every american is given a birth certificate when they're born. What is so hard about bringing it along when you're going to the DMV?

Gundude
12-08-2012, 13:11
Essentially, the act states, federal agencies cannot accept state-issued driver's licenses or ID cards if the state does not meet minimum security standards, which include, "evidence that the applicant is a U.S. Citizen."Something's wrong with that story. You don't need to be a US citizen to get a drivers license, whether or not it's a "Real ID". Millions of non-citizen immigrants legally have Real IDs.

427
12-08-2012, 19:26
The issue here is the Real ID Act - needing a social security card and birth certificate to obtain a state drivers license that meets federal criteria. Absurd! Good for NM for not kowtowing to the Feds. Bad for NM that her citizens are too thick to see the real problem here. I dread the day when I have to renew my license in my state. I'll likely end up expired and cited. I can barely bring myself to renew my "registration" within a few months of expiration. But the important thing here is that the state gets it's tribute and someone in a three letter agency feels like they made a decision.

There will always be a reason to give up liberty to the state in exchange for a feeling of security. This is the history of modern times. And the absence of this pattern recognition is what allows the cycle to perpetuate. We lose liberty because we ask to lose it. It takes great courage to value liberty, broadly, more than one's specific pet issue or insecurity. As Americans, we have long lacked this courage. Pick an issue, and you'll find Americans willing to give up liberty to empower the state to regulate it. The sum total of each of these decisions makes up our broader and collective loss of liberty in this zero-sum game we play (and lose) with the state.
What are you you talking about?

None of this would be an issue if NM didn't issue DLs to illegals. Period. THAT is the REAL problem. The security issue is that illegals are able to get DLs. Do you not see that?

Are you for states like New Mexico and Washington issuing DLs to illegals? Are you?

Since the new governor has been in office, she's been trying to repeal the law. The democratic legislature has either killed any attempts. Illegals don't deserve the same rights and privileges as citizens.

cowboywannabe
12-08-2012, 20:00
whats the problem? with all the government corruption of giving illegals fake i.d. and driver's licenses.....no way to verify if they are legit.....its a problem which created itself.

barbedwiresmile
12-08-2012, 20:03
What are you you talking about?


I value my liberty more than your 'feelings' of security or your pet issues. Re-read my second post.

But It really doesn't matter because 'Americans' have long since traded their liberty to the state in exchange for, well, whatever.

I could give two ***** about illegal immigration relative to the dynamic by which this issue is used to empower the federal state.

Illegal immigrants don't confiscate half my earnings. Illegal immigrants don't own my land. Illegal immigrants don't touch my sack every other week at the airport. Illegal immigrants don't read my email and monitor my search history. Illegal immigrants don't restrict my 2A rights. Illegal immigrants don't fly drones over my country. Illegal immigrants don't conduct armed raids on dairy farms (and restrict my ability to sell my raw milk). Illegal immigrants didn't call me twice last year trying to get me to sell milk. -- etc.

czsmithGT
12-08-2012, 20:09
I don't have a problem with it. The act says that each state issue driver's licenses or state ID cards only to residents who can prove either U.S. citizenship or legal alien status by showing proper identification. If New Mexico wants to issue non federal compliant drivers licenses to illegal aliens I say let them, so long as I don't have to fly on a plane with someone who never had to prove who he/she was. The gov has been screwing around with this and issuing extensions since 2005 trying to drag the states fighting tooth and nail all the way.

In WV you can get either a non-federal or federal compliant license but the requirements for documentation and cost are the same for either. They started doing this 11 months ago. If WV can put a system in place I don't see how hard it could be for other states. I got mine renewed last week and had no issue whatsoever.

- I already had a copy of my birth certificate but if I hadn't it isn't that tough to get. Or I could have used my passport.

- If you don't have your social security card (I lost mine and needed it for another purpose so I got a replacement mailed to me in about a week by going to a social security office) you can use a W-2 or 1099 in WV

- Proof of residence allowed a bunch of things from utility bills to tax records to voters registration cards, to weapons permits to car registrations- the list goes on.

G17Jake
12-08-2012, 20:23
I value my liberty more than your 'feelings' of security or your pet issues. Re-read my second post.

But It really doesn't matter because 'Americans' have long since traded their liberty to the state in exchange for, well, whatever.

I could give two ***** about illegal immigration relative to the dynamic by which this issue is used to empower the federal state.

Illegal immigrants don't confiscate half my earnings. Illegal immigrants don't own my land. Illegal immigrants don't touch my sack every other week at the airport. Illegal immigrants don't read my email and monitor my search history. Illegal immigrants don't restrict my 2A rights. Illegal immigrants don't fly drones over my country. Illegal immigrants don't conduct armed raids on dairy farms (and restrict my ability to sell my raw milk). Illegal immigrants didn't call me twice last year trying to get me to sell milk. -- etc.

I bet some of those illegals have managed to vote for those that do.

akroguy
12-08-2012, 21:01
The illegals use the fraudulent DL to secure government services, cash welfare checks, use EBT cards, secure consumer loans and those wonderful no-doc mortgage loans that threw our markets into the crapper.

It is a BIG, EXPENSIVE problem, that goes beyond mere flight security issues.

427
12-08-2012, 22:14
I value my liberty more than your 'feelings' of security Feelings about security!? Don't lecture me about Liberty. You'll comply, like the rest of us.

If you value you liberty like you say you do, you'd see that illegal immigration either directly or indirectly is affecting EVERYBODY. The feds are enacting laws aimed at everybody instead of enforcing specific laws aimed at specific groups.

Ilegals shouldn't be given DL's or are you OK with that?

or your pet issues.Giving DLs to illegals is an issue that affects EVERYBODY, even you!

Re-read my second post. I did. It was a rant. See my last reply.


But It really doesn't matter because 'Americans' You're not "american"

have long since traded their liberty to the state in exchange for, well, whatever. This is about DL's being issued to illegals. Is your state in compliance? Are you going to be a liberty loving "patriot" and defy the feds and not comply? Or are you going to comply like the rest of us.

I could give two ***** about illegal immigration relative to the dynamic by which this issue is used to empower the federal state. So what are you going to do? Defy or comply?

Illegal immigrants don't confiscate half my earnings.Your taxed earnings are being confiscated to fund illegals.

Illegal immigrants don't own my land.Neither do you. Either you pay taxes or the .gov seizes it. Your taxes on the land are being used to fund thier entitlements.

Illegal immigrants don't touch my sack every other week at the airport.Make a defiant stand against the feds, or don't fly.

Illegal immigrants don't read my email and monitor my search history. Make a defiant stand against the feds.

Illegal immigrants don't restrict my 2A rights. Make a defiant stand against the feds.

Illegal immigrants don't fly drones over my country.Make a defiant stand and shoot them down.

Illegal immigrants don't conduct armed raids on dairy farms (and restrict my ability to sell my raw milk).Make a defiant stand. Fire the shot heard around the world - Become a martyr.


Illegal immigrants didn't call me twice last year trying to get me to sell milk. -- etc.

Don't self-righteously lecture me about liberty, like the rest of us, you won't risk your liberty to make a stand.

Gunnut 45/454
12-08-2012, 23:26
barbedwiresmile
Yes but illegals do steal our money- in welfare ,food stamps, Gov housing, ID theft etc!
But I see your a good Liberterian - all for the open borders! I see you support the COTUS and laws- not!:faint:

barbedwiresmile
12-09-2012, 06:51
Neither do you. Either you pay taxes or the .gov seizes it. Your taxes on the land are being used to fund thier entitlements.


That was the entire point. We don't even own the land we stand on in fiat America. We lease it from the state. This tribute being used to fund entitlement programs is a symptom, not the disease. The disease is the largest and most expensive government in history, and it's hundreds of thousands of pages of code - that posters here seem willing to add to in order to resolve any problem they perceive. When the answer is too much government, even more government is not the answer. Read ID is simply more government. That this is not seen, clear as day, is the fundamental reason why we are in this position. If the perception is that entitlement programs incent illegal immigration, the solution is to end entitlement programs, not to throw additional code on the books.

Every illegal immigrant in America could disappear this evening, and you would still wake up tomorrow morning with the largest, most expensive, and -on a macro level- most corrupt government in the history of humanity.

Ruble Noon
12-09-2012, 07:28
I value my liberty more than your 'feelings' of security or your pet issues. Re-read my second post.

But It really doesn't matter because 'Americans' have long since traded their liberty to the state in exchange for, well, whatever.

I could give two ***** about illegal immigration relative to the dynamic by which this issue is used to empower the federal state.

Illegal immigrants don't confiscate half my earnings. Illegal immigrants don't own my land. Illegal immigrants don't touch my sack every other week at the airport. Illegal immigrants don't read my email and monitor my search history. Illegal immigrants don't restrict my 2A rights. Illegal immigrants don't fly drones over my country. Illegal immigrants don't conduct armed raids on dairy farms (and restrict my ability to sell my raw milk). Illegal immigrants didn't call me twice last year trying to get me to sell milk. -- etc.

That natural milk is dangerous stuff.

Ruble Noon
12-09-2012, 07:31
barbedwiresmile
Yes but illegals do steal our money- in welfare ,food stamps, Gov housing, ID theft etc!
But I see your a good Liberterian - all for the open borders! I see you support the COTUS and laws- not!:faint:

Our border with Mexico has been wide open since the founding of our country. Has the border changed? No. The problem is not the border rather, it is our government.

Gunnut 45/454
12-09-2012, 10:31
Ruble Noon
Your exactly right -our Governemnt has refused to enforce the laws "We the People have told them to enforce! The laws are still there and now the Usurper in office has refused to enforce them - even going so far as to violate them!:steamed:

Ruble Noon
12-09-2012, 10:39
That was the entire point. We don't even own the land we stand on in fiat America. We lease it from the state. This tribute being used to fund entitlement programs is a symptom, not the disease. The disease is the largest and most expensive government in history, and it's hundreds of thousands of pages of code - that posters here seem willing to add to in order to resolve any problem they perceive. When the answer is too much government, even more government is not the answer. Read ID is simply more government. That this is not seen, clear as day, is the fundamental reason why we are in this position. If the perception is that entitlement programs incent illegal immigration, the solution is to end entitlement programs, not to throw additional code on the books.

Every illegal immigrant in America could disappear this evening, and you would still wake up tomorrow morning with the largest, most expensive, and -on a macro level- most corrupt government in the history of humanity.

So true. Look how many want the feds to step in and mandate national reciprocity for CHL holders.

Cavalry Doc
12-09-2012, 11:34
Our border with Mexico has been wide open since the founding of our country. Has the border changed? No. The problem is not the border rather, it is our government.

Agreed. Our government gives illegal aliens welfare, food stamps, drivers licenses, a place to work for cash, and all the trappings of a country that is not quite "third world" yet.

If you are upset about birds crapping on your front porch, you don't put a bird net over your house, you take down the bird feeder and they won't bother to come around anymore.

Bren
12-09-2012, 11:42
New Mexicans rush to obtain passports
http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2858560.shtml?cat=504

The reason:

Thank you, Bill Richardson! You, and the Democratic run legislature, gave the gift that keeps giving.

Interesting, but proof of citizenship can't be made a requirement of getting a driver's license in any state, as the Supreme Court ruled years ago when Alabama did it. We had the same issue when our state government chose to require citizenship for a CCDW permit.

Criticize the NM democrats if you want, but none of you have a driver's license that required proof of citizenship or that you even be a citizen. Hpowever, some states have an enhanced ID for citizens that goes beyond dirver's license requirements and can act as a passport ofr crossing the mexican and Canadian borders.

If my state government went against the "Real ID Act" I would applaud that choice. It is basically making a "national ID card" disguiased as a state driver's license.

czsmithGT
12-09-2012, 13:03
Interesting, but proof of citizenship can't be made a requirement of getting a driver's license in any state, as the Supreme Court ruled years ago when Alabama did it. We had the same issue when our state government chose to require citizenship for a CCDW permit.

Criticize the NM democrats if you want, but none of you have a driver's license that required proof of citizenship or that you even be a citizen. Hpowever, some states have an enhanced ID for citizens that goes beyond dirver's license requirements and can act as a passport ofr crossing the mexican and Canadian borders.

If my state government went against the "Real ID Act" I would applaud that choice. It is basically making a "national ID card" disguiased as a state driver's license.

For non-citizens my state requires proof that the alien is in the United States legally and is a resident of the state in order for them to obtain a driver's license. Illegal aliens cannot obtain a state ID card or driver's license. The question of citizenship or non-citizenship is not an issue here, only whether you are here legally.

427
12-09-2012, 15:08
Interesting, but proof of citizenship can't be made a requirement of getting a driver's license in any state, as the Supreme Court ruled years ago when Alabama did it. We had the same issue when our state government chose to require citizenship for a CCDW permit.

Criticize the NM democrats if you want, but none of you have a driver's license that required proof of citizenship or that you even be a citizen. Hpowever, some states have an enhanced ID for citizens that goes beyond dirver's license requirements and can act as a passport ofr crossing the mexican and Canadian borders.

If my state government went against the "Real ID Act" I would applaud that choice. It is basically making a "national ID card" disguiased as a state driver's license.

My point is that illegals shouldn't be able to get state issued DLs.
Here's some news stories;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/20/5-new-mexico-residents-linked-to-immigrant-driver-license-fraud-ring/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/new-mexico-drivers-license-ring-bust-reveals-national-operation/

Illegal Aliens Flock to New Mexico to get Fake Drivers Licenses. This MUST be stopped. - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcK_toZUswc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIPOOlbcgt8

And these are the just the ones who have been caught. How many more have gotten away and are running around?

Bren
12-10-2012, 04:42
For non-citizens my state requires proof that the alien is in the United States legally and is a resident of the state in order for them to obtain a driver's license. Illegal aliens cannot obtain a state ID card or driver's license. The question of citizenship or non-citizenship is not an issue here, only whether you are here legally.

I saw that Tennessee won in court on the right to give illegals a "driving certificate" and the citizens and legals got a license, but I haven't seen anything on refusing to give it. However, with the language in the Tenn. case, I'd guess they may allow that, outside of the 9th circuit.

Bren
12-10-2012, 04:43
My point is that illegals shouldn't be able to get state issued DLs.


I agree - the post I responded to was about proving citizenship to get a license, which isn't the same as proving you are here legally.

juggy4711
12-10-2012, 16:40
Criminals get guns so we make it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns. Illegals get DL's so we make it harder for law abiding citizens to get DL's. So dumb.

427
12-10-2012, 21:07
I agree - the post I responded to was about proving citizenship to get a license, which isn't the same as proving you are here legally.
That's why I'm criticizing the Dems, this is on them.

G19G20
12-11-2012, 08:54
As usual, you can tell who soaks up the msm talking points of the day to defend ever-creeping federal control over the states and the people.

Remember how REAL ID started way back in 2005? Gotta fight them turrists so they don't get IDs! Now that this mantra is losing steam, it's to fight them illegals so they don't get IDs! Demagoguing and scapegoating at it's finest. Just swap in whichever group you need to demonize to keep the agenda rolling.

Look, REAL ID is nothing but the implementation of a national identification card database. National ID in a country that's made up of independent states? Last I checked, the Constitution doesn't give the US gov't the power to force states to issue id cards that comply with the DC Ivory Tower's requirements. We already gave up much of this state autonomy with social security numbers. Let's go ahead and give up the last shred by issuing state IDs that the feds dictate.

Mark these words. There WILL be some uniform national identifier on your state ID, regardless of which state you are from that will tie directly to your soon-to-exist federal medical record (you all oppose Obamacare right? Why support a catalyst such as REAL ID?), your financial records, etc.

Why REAL ID is bad:

http://www.realnightmare.org/about/2/

http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/5-problems-national-id-cards

G19G20
12-12-2012, 02:13
Stop watching the short con and start watching the long con....

czsmithGT
12-15-2012, 02:29
As usual, you can tell who soaks up the msm talking points of the day to defend ever-creeping federal control over the states and the people.

Remember how REAL ID started way back in 2005? Gotta fight them turrists so they don't get IDs! Now that this mantra is losing steam, it's to fight them illegals so they don't get IDs! Demagoguing and scapegoating at it's finest. Just swap in whichever group you need to demonize to keep the agenda rolling.

Look, REAL ID is nothing but the implementation of a national identification card database. National ID in a country that's made up of independent states? Last I checked, the Constitution doesn't give the US gov't the power to force states to issue id cards that comply with the DC Ivory Tower's requirements. We already gave up much of this state autonomy with social security numbers. Let's go ahead and give up the last shred by issuing state IDs that the feds dictate.

Mark these words. There WILL be some uniform national identifier on your state ID, regardless of which state you are from that will tie directly to your soon-to-exist federal medical record (you all oppose Obamacare right? Why support a catalyst such as REAL ID?), your financial records, etc.

Why REAL ID is bad:

http://www.realnightmare.org/about/2/

http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/5-problems-national-id-cards

"To date, 24 states have enacted anti-Real ID bills or resolutions. Fifteen states – Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Washington, Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Louisiana, Virginia, Minnesota, Oregon, and Missouri – will never issue a Real ID license because they have enacted binding legislation prohibiting participation in the Real ID program."

How do the people in these states feel about the fact that they will now have to obtain passports to enter federal facilities or fly within the US? The same information, proving you are who you say you are, will have to be provided to obtain a passport but passports are more expensive and take longer to get than driver's licenses. Seems like a silly fight to me but if that is the way states want to go it is OK with me- their choice.

"It includes a devilishly difficult mandate that states verify the “issuance, validity and completeness” of every birth certificate, immigration document, utility bill, and any other document presented at DMVs as part of an application for a Real ID card."

Even the WV DMV managed to do this 11 months ago, so how devilishly difficult could it be? Last time I checked, we didn't have a bunch of MENSA members working there.