Daniel Defense, BCM, Rainier Arms or PSA Upper [Archive] - Glock Talk

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gbanker
12-12-2012, 01:26
Hi all,

I'm looking to put together another quality AR 556 staying under 1k for the complete upper. It will be a range, hd, shtf and backup rifle. I plan to probably put a few hundred rounds through it a month.

The lower has already been assembled with a PA LBK w/STR stock. I just need an upper to finish it off. I'm not in a huge hurry but I'm starting to do my research again.

My only rifle now is a 16" BCM Middy that i assembled, this time I'd like to go with a 14.5 middy, pinned to 16. I want a long rail 12" or longer, not set on quad or tube but no fixed site post.

I've heard a lot of positive reviews regarding the PA uppers. But at 420.00 w/o a bcg or ch, it doesn't seem like that great of a deal when a bcm can be had for 439 or DD for 400. Do the 14.5 PA uppers go on sale very often? Has anybody ordered a DD upper from Smartgunner lately? is the current $400 deal their reg price or do they have specials too?

The other option that I am looking hard at is the Rainier Arms with Milspec bcg, ch and Xtc comp. 725 for the 12" RA Evo rail or 850 for the 12" centurion C4 rail. I live in WA so RA will charge me close to 90 in tax.

90 dollars I can splurge on a DD 12" lite rail.

So many option, Like I mentioned above I prefer to stay under 1k for the complete upper.
Any AR guys going through a similar situation or can give any insight to the above?

Thx banker

Armchair Commando
12-12-2012, 01:45
Just buy 3 PSA Uppers that way you have 2 on hand for future projects!

boomhower
12-12-2012, 05:03
I'd go DD, BCM, or Rainier. I've just seen way to many fubars from PSA recently to have any trust there.

skew12
12-12-2012, 05:11
I'd go DD, BCM, or Rainier. I've just seen way to many fubars from PSA recently to have any trust there.

This.

GSSF17
12-12-2012, 05:43
I'd go DD, BCM, or Rainier. I've just seen way to many fubars from PSA recently to have any trust there.


My experience is wonderful with PSA. Just sayin. Actually, according to tracking, another one is arriving on the brown truck today, shipped within the promised time... :whistling:

That said, with your price point, you could easily get into a BCM Upper. Unless cash is a real problem, I'd choose BCM.

Travclem
12-12-2012, 06:06
-DD
-BCM or Rainier
-
-
-
-
-
-PSA

in that order.

G23Adam
12-12-2012, 07:34
I used to be one of the biggest PSA proponents out there. This foulup with the black friday debacle has me back to neutral on them. I should have went with BCM.

fuzzy03cls
12-12-2012, 07:39
CS aside....Get whichever is cheapest. They all are made to the same specs as far as I can see. I Don't think there's any difference......:popcorn:
I buy BCM now just because they seem to be in stock more at the times I have $ to buy.

Diesel McBadass
12-12-2012, 07:43
what happened on black frida with psa?

SFW
12-12-2012, 09:40
what happened on black frida with psa?

In a nutshell, they over extened themselves and are having issues meeting the 15 day turnaround timeframe.

I'm currently awaiting my Black Friday PSA upper. I can't really comment on their quality, as I have not yet recieved my upper- although I hear good things. With that said, my next rifle will come from BCM. They build an extremely quality product and have an excellent customer service record. The few items that I have ordered from them were accurate and shipped quickly.

gbanker
12-12-2012, 09:44
I've had good luck and fast turn times with PSA when ordering ammo and my most recent LBK, ordered on Blk Friday for an awesome price! w/o their LBK special my complete lower would probably still be a stripped lower and I wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.

I order their ammo in bulk well ahead of when I need it, so I have no problem waiting for their 9mm and 223 sales to pop up. I've found their prices to be the best.

Hope you guys get your uppers soon!

I am all about saving money but with all of the mentioned uppers costing about the same give or take 50 bucks, I'll stick with one of the 3 higher end uppers.

It seems like BCM, DD and RA are pretty much on the same quality level. It is probably just a matter of personal preference. Since I have a BCM now, do I stick with the same platform? Much like I have a G19 and G26 that I practice with and can trust my life with? Or do I go for something a little different like a DD or RA because I already have a BCM.

I would like to train with both my rifles, either in classes or out with friends. Maflunction drills, transitions, mag dumps etc.

Does anybody have 2 of the 3 that they can compare?

I'm not sold on the RA XTC as I may want to put a can on this build down the road. Or I may want to can my 16" and turn build it into a specialized long range shooter. Any suggestions on comps that are compatable with cans?

glock031
12-12-2012, 10:00
Your choices are good. It comes down to what accesories and type barrel on the particular upper you want. Basic config not one you listed would give any advantage over the rest of your list. Pick the one that suits your needs or wants.

MrVvrroomm
12-12-2012, 10:20
Daniel Defense

WoodenPlank
12-12-2012, 11:02
I would avoid PSA. Delays in shipping, shoddy customer service, and my PSA middy upper arrived with a canted FSB due to a bad index notch on the upper.

Sent from the USS Sulaco.

mjkeat
12-12-2012, 11:14
I shoot BCM and DD. The last BCM was ordered in spite of wanting to try a PSA for the savings and what seemed to be an up and coming player in the AR assembler game. After hearing an overwhelming amount of negative feedback I spent extra for the piece of mind. The BCMs bang steel at will and arrived in 3 days accompanied by a mountain of swag. Sometimes I wonder why people purchase from anyone other than BCM.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Diesel McBadass
12-12-2012, 11:21
ranier arms shows they dont have any of their own uppers

gbanker
12-12-2012, 16:33
ranier arms shows they dont have any of their own uppers

Category> Ranier Custom Uppers

The Centurion Railed upper is available now. The RA tubular upper should be back in stock as soon as they get their hand guards in.

glock031
12-12-2012, 18:45
I would avoid PSA. Delays in shipping, shoddy customer service, and my PSA middy upper arrived with a canted FSB due to a bad index notch on the upper.

Sent from the USS Sulaco.

You know you have a lifetime warranty. I know you don't want to go through the hassle.

Im calling BS on your claim. Only 90% of GT members here have PSA functional problems. Less then 1% of the out side world has some issues. Id say you guys are BCM base and thats that. Trying to hurt PSA with BS is like the wife pissing in the ocean to help drown her husband. A waste of your time. Sorry but metric tons of fine PSA rifles in the hands of many many people so the negative campaigning just won't work and reflects poorly upon the few here..

You posted a picture of your FSB/MBUS and it lined up spot on.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/227665_My_PSA_upper_arrived__but___.html

mjkeat
12-12-2012, 19:12
I havent seen a single post where someone mentioned anything bad about PSA outside of personal experience. Nobody is lying or trying to take away from PSA's market share. In fact I feel they (BCM & PSA) cater to 2 different markets.

I like PSA and have ordered from them a few times. However as the price difference b/w the two shrinks some would rather not risk being another statistic like many of us have been.

If you'd like to start a thread covering BCM shortcomings please do.

WoodenPlank
12-12-2012, 19:27
You know you have a lifetime warranty. I know you don't want to go through the hassle.

Im calling BS on your claim. Only 90% of GT members here have PSA functional problems. Less then 1% of the out side world has some issues. Id say you guys are BCM base and thats that. Trying to hurt PSA with BS is like the wife pissing in the ocean to help drown her husband. A waste of your time. Sorry but metric tons of fine PSA rifles in the hands of many many people so the negative campaigning just won't work and reflects poorly upon the few here..

You posted a picture of your FSB/MBUS and it lined up spot on.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/227665_My_PSA_upper_arrived__but___.html

Myself and two other people looked at that upper, and it was canted. When I pulled the barrel nut off, the index notch was clearly off center at the same angle as the FSB. To top if off, PSA can't even be bothered to use the right kind of grease/anti-seize on the barrel nut. Instead, it was lubed with what appeared to be motor oil.

As for lifetime warranty, if their customer service and quality control are any indication, I wouldn't trust them to make it right. I can't help the fact that my phone's camera didn't let me take a clear enough picture to show it was canted.

I have also had a BCM bolt fail. BCM never took more than 2 business hours to reply to an email, I had the bolt back 4 business days after it arrived at their offices, and they more than made it right by me. I even started a thread here about my experience, and it ended with my complimenting BCM on their customer service.

Travclem
12-12-2012, 19:28
You know you have a lifetime warranty. I know you don't want to go through the hassle.

Im calling BS on your claim. Only 90% of GT members here have PSA functional problems. Less then 1% of the out side world has some issues. Id say you guys are BCM base and thats that. Trying to hurt PSA with BS is like the wife pissing in the ocean to help drown her husband. A waste of your time. Sorry but metric tons of fine PSA rifles in the hands of many many people so the negative campaigning just won't work and reflects poorly upon the few here..

You posted a picture of your FSB/MBUS and it lined up spot on.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/227665_My_PSA_upper_arrived__but___.html
:rofl:
http://ampersandartful.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/butthurt-report-form.jpg

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 19:30
I have 2 PSA uppers (16" Middy and 16" Dissipator) and 1 BCM upper (20") and if they are any better or worse than any each other I can't tell how. Quality is the same IMO.

I got super fast shipping from BCM and reasonably fast shipping from PSA both time. If you want it quicker go with BCM. If a couple of weeks is not an issue then go with whatever model/price combo grabs you.

I really do not think you can go wrong with either. Rainer or DD would be great as well.

Face it, it won't be you last so pick one brand now and a different one next time. :)

glock031
12-12-2012, 20:25
:rofl:
http://ampersandartful.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/butthurt-report-form.jpg

You think PSA is cutting into BCM's sales this year, wait till next year. Spikes is expanding, Colt getting ito the commercail market even deeper and PSA breaking sales records. BCM who? HAHAHA! HA

Fair and honest marketing will win every time.

No butthurt here boys.

WoodenPlank
12-12-2012, 20:28
You think PSA is cutting into BCM's sales this year, wait till next year. Spikes is expanding, Colt getting ito the commercail market even deeper and PSA breaking sales records. BCM who? HAHAHA! HA

Fair and honest marketing will win every time.

No butthurt here boys.

If you think BCM is hurting for sales, you're deluding yourself.

Meantime, are you really accusing BCM of unfair or dishonest marketing?

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 20:28
Is any AR maker hurting right now?

WoodenPlank
12-12-2012, 20:29
Is any AR maker hurting right now?

Not in terms of sales, no.

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 20:35
Not in terms of sales, no.

I agree, and no doubt increased demand has driven increased production which can cause quality issues. I think we are seeing/hearing about more AR issues because of this.

I wonder how many ARs have been sold in the U.S. in the last 5 years :dunno:

Cole125
12-12-2012, 20:37
Myself and two other people looked at that upper, and it was canted. When I pulled the barrel nut off, the index notch was clearly off center at the same angle as the FSB. To top if off, PSA can't even be bothered to use the right kind of grease/anti-seize on the barrel nut. Instead, it was lubed with what appeared to be motor oil.

As for lifetime warranty, if their customer service and quality control are any indication, I wouldn't trust them to make it right. I can't help the fact that my phone's camera didn't let me take a clear enough picture to show it was canted.

I have also had a BCM bolt fail. BCM never took more than 2 business hours to reply to an email, I had the bolt back 4 business days after it arrived at their offices, and they more than made it right by me. I even started a thread here about my experience, and it ended with my complimenting BCM on their customer service.

Sorry to hear about your PSA upper not working out.

Can't say I didn't warn you in my thread recently about how PSA screwed me with a upper too.

Travclem
12-12-2012, 20:39
Sorry to hear about your PSA upper not working out.

Can't say I didn't warn you in my thread recently about how PSA screwed me with a upper too.
You must just have a vendetta against PSA like Plank.:rofl:

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 20:45
I think PSA bashing is becoming a GT sport.

mjkeat
12-12-2012, 20:46
I agree, and no doubt increased demand has driven increased production which can cause quality issues. I think we are seeing/hearing about more AR issues because of this.

I wonder how many ARs have been sold in the U.S. in the last 5 years :dunno:

Have you heard of increased issues w/ any other companies?

I think PSA bashing is becoming a GT sport.

Is reporting your experiences, bashing or looking out for others or just simply reporting your experience?

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 20:50
Have you heard of increased issues w/ any other companies?

No, but I do not really keep up with things like that. But I would imagine like any business you can only push your production so far before it starts to suffer. I know that is how it is in my business. I would bet a lot of these AR makers are either doing so are at the very least very tempted to do so to capture sales.

I think they know we are headed for a glut again on the AR market like last time O got elected, huge rush on everything AR and then a glut on the market. I know two of my friends who have never owned ARs bought one this month. One Sig 400 and one Colt 6920.

As for PSA it seems alot of folks take pleasure in bashing them beyond the "reporting" of their issues. Just my perception. Like I said I own the crowd favorite (BCM) and the challenger (PSA) as well as a LMT and Bison upper. I like them all but am not married to any of them.

I am much more opinionated on 1911 brands :)

Travclem
12-12-2012, 20:51
I think PSA bashing is becoming a GT sport.
No, PSA was the thing here not too long ago. Then everyone placed orders and the CS kept getting worse and worse until finally people had had enough and started venting. The relationship between the GTBRF and PSA has been perfectly parabolic.

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 20:56
No, PSA was the thing here not too long ago. Then everyone placed orders and the CS kept getting worse and worse until finally people had had enough and started venting. The relationship between the GTBRF and PSA has been perfectly parabolic.

Parabolic, I like it :supergrin:

No doubt they have pissed a few folks off here. This is a pretty opinionated sub forum as it is so it is no surprise that that anger is as vocal as it is.

mjkeat
12-12-2012, 21:03
No, but I do not really keep up with things like that.

So why make the comment? I do keep an eye out for these things. Companies like BCM, Colt, Noveske, etc. don't appear to be suffering from deteriating quality.

PSA is. Maybe instead of holding those luke warm carbine classes and opening new store fronts they should put more effort into what got them where they were.

As for PSA it seems alot of folks take pleasure in bashing them beyond the "reporting" of their issues.

Give me an example.

WoodenPlank
12-12-2012, 21:10
So why make the comment? I do keep an eye out for these things. Companies like BCM, Colt, Noveske, etc. don't appear to be suffering from deteriating quality.

PSA is. Maybe instead of holding those luke warm carbine classes and opening new store fronts they should put more effort into what got them where they were.



Give me an example.

Or hire more people to answer phones. One of the guys working in the main PSA store told me they have a whole THREE people to answer all of their phone calls and emails.

Might not be a bad idea to hire a few more competent armorers to help build the uppers, too.

Ruggles
12-12-2012, 21:13
So why make the comment? I do keep an eye out for these things. Companies like BCM, Colt, Noveske, etc. don't appear to be suffering from deteriating quality.

PSA is. Maybe instead of holding those luke warm carbine classes and opening new store fronts they should put more effort into what got them where they were.



Give me an example.

:rofl:

An example....See above.

Not satisfied with saying "I am not happy with PSA service/product" you had to offer some business advice/insults about their new store fronts and classes :tongueout:

As to why I made the comment in the first place I kinda thought that was what this place was about. Like I said earlier when I posted that was just my perception.

bigmoney890
12-12-2012, 21:17
You know you have a lifetime warranty. I know you don't want to go through the hassle.

Im calling BS on your claim. Only 90% of GT members here have PSA functional problems. Less then 1% of the out side world has some issues. Id say you guys are BCM base and thats that. Trying to hurt PSA with BS is like the wife pissing in the ocean to help drown her husband. A waste of your time. Sorry but metric tons of fine PSA rifles in the hands of many many people so the negative campaigning just won't work and reflects poorly upon the few here..

You posted a picture of your FSB/MBUS and it lined up spot on.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_301/227665_My_PSA_upper_arrived__but___.html

Since you follow arfcom as well, then you must realize the "metric ton" of problems PSA is seeing in their Industry Forum. Just because you only see a small portion of complaints doesn't mean that they aren't sending out bad products (doesn't mean they are sending out the greatest thing either). Not every AR owner comes to GT or Arfcom, bud. You can't claim their greatness with the flawed logic you just used. And for the record, I don't own a BCM, Colt, or any other rifle that i'll be accused being a fanboy of :wavey:

mjkeat
12-12-2012, 21:56
Or hire more people to answer phones. One of the guys working in the main PSA store told me they have a whole THREE people to answer all of their phone calls and emails.

Might not be a bad idea to hire a few more competent armorers to help build the uppers, too.

A couple months ago they posted on their Facebook page that they were hiring more help. I was actually happy to hear the news and even posted it up here on GT.

I really wanted to purchase PSAs 1:8 SS and actually waited for a couple months for it to come back in stock. I even emailed them to inquire about it.

I'm currently trying to talk myself into ordering some parts I need from PSA. Maybe I'll place a small order and hope for the best this time.

gbanker
12-12-2012, 23:01
I leaning in a different direction from my first BCM build with DD Omega rails and FSP.

I'm thinking of going with either:

A. Smartgunners DD 14.5 middy deal with Troy TRX 13" rail and BCM mod 4 CH for 629. I'd get a DD BCG for 140.00 and would have Rainier Arms pin the PWS 556 or something similar which would be compatible with a can. Total cost for the upper would be 904.

or

B. Rainier Arms 14.5 middy with the RA 12" Evolution Rail, BCG and CH, pinned PWS. Total cost of the upper with tax 881 if they let me sub out and pay the diff on the RA XTC comp.

I've been to RA many times, it's a great shop and I've heard good things about their builds. Right now, i'm leaning towards RA, they just need to get their Evo rail in.

fuzzy03cls
12-13-2012, 07:05
You know why PSA has issues? Because of these forums. I don't think they ever thought once they started selling AR uppers it would take off like it did. And they got caught out there. People bought ammo from them. And mostly from these forums. So we started buying the AR parts & realized they are good quality, & then past that on thread after thread on ar15, m4, here & elsewhere......It's the internet gun forum brand of the month syndrome.