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sawgrass
12-12-2012, 21:19
I picked up a Colt MKIV Series 70 Govt. Model today from LGS. From the brief amt. of time that I had to look around
I think it's and early 80's gun.

It's a "B70". One place that I read said, '79-'81 for B70 and 70B for
82-83.

Can anyone help me date it?

Thanks
SG

bac1023
12-12-2012, 21:46
SG, please PM me the beginning of the serial #.

Nevermind, I see it now. I'll see what I can find.

sawgrass
12-12-2012, 21:47
Thanks! On it's way.

bac1023
12-12-2012, 21:53
It's definitely between 1979 and 1981. The Proofhouse only gives dates up to 1978.

Series 80 started in 1983.

I'll see what else I can find out, but it's either 1979,1980, or 1981. :)

sawgrass
12-12-2012, 21:58
It's definitely between 1979 and 1981. The Proofhouse only gives dates up to 1978.

Series 80 started in 1983.

I'll see what else I can find out, but it's either 1979,1980, or 1981. :)

Thanks, I really appreciate it. It has a little holster wear but the blueing is good. I can't wait until Friday when I hope to have time to clean and shoot it.

ETA: I've read something here and there about bad years and good years etc....I don't know very much about these. Any information is appreciated. It has a short trigger. Was it manufactured that way? It looks like the sides of the hammer are polished. Are they?

bac1023
12-12-2012, 22:28
Thanks, I really appreciate it. It has a little holster wear but the blueing is good. I can't wait until Friday when I hope to have time to clean and shoot it.

ETA: I've read something here and there about bad years and good years etc....I don't know very much about these. Any information is appreciated. It has a short trigger. Was it manufactured that way? It looks like the sides of the hammer are polished. Are they?

Post some pics when you can.

The short trigger is standard. It has the arched main spring housing, right?

sawgrass
12-12-2012, 22:56
Post some pics when you can.

The short trigger is standard. It has the arched main spring housing, right?

Yes, it's arched.

bac1023
12-12-2012, 22:59
Yes, it's arched.

SG, the standard Series 70 Government was basically a 1911-A1 clone. The short trigger and arched MSH go together.

A standard trigger can be a long reach when an arched MSH is in place, for those with smaller hands.

sawgrass
12-13-2012, 08:06
SG, the standard Series 70 Government was basically a 1911-A1 clone. The short trigger and arched MSH go together.

A standard trigger can be a long reach when an arched MSH is in place, for those with smaller hands.

Maybe the question is: "Is it a 1911?":rofl:
Just kidding you...Brian thank you for all of your help.

bac1023
12-13-2012, 08:43
Maybe the question is: "Is it a 1911?":rofl:
Just kidding you...Brian thank you for all of your help.

Technically, no. It's a 1911A1. ;)

Do you see the scallop cut on the frame behind the trigger guard? That was another A1 enhancement to go with the short trigger and arched housing. They all combine to make the gun more comfortable in hand.

The cut is to make the short trigger easier to get to. The short trigger is to keep the reach about the same after the arched housing was added. The arched housing was to make the gun more comfortable and fill the palm better. 1911s before 1924 did not have any of these things, among a couple other A1 enhancements.

Hope this makes sense. :cool:

fnfalman
12-13-2012, 09:23
ETA: I've read something here and there about bad years and good years etc....I don't know very much about these.

In the early 1980s, Colt had an issue with union worker strike that badly affected both production quantities and production quality. Also in the late 1980s all the way through the early 2000s, Colt didn't really seem to give a damn about civilians (got lots of M16 sales to Uncle Sam, the cops, etc.) and did some really stupid stuff like removing the bayonet lugs on their AR-15s even before the Assault Weapon Ban. Business management was probably pretty bad because they cut corners everywhere and introduced some models that were either down right bad (Colt 2000) or badly researched & executed (Double Eagle). Even their vaunted Python line suffered from lack of quality control. The Python Elite's fit & finish were downright disgusting with some that they let out of the gate (I personally have seen two SS Python Elites whose finishes are fully of swirl marks).

Quality control with the M1911 was sporadic at best and down right bad at times. I have a 1993 Gold Cup which shot "OK", but the trigger pull is gritty AND some of the parts that were suppose to be mirror polished are at best satin polished with lots of swirls.

Colt was pretty much out of the game and traded on their marque. Somewhere in the 2000s, they decided to make a comeback and started turning out decent firearms again.

Jim Watson
12-13-2012, 11:52
Technically, no. It's a 1911A1.

TECHNICALLY, it is a Government Model. It is not a 1911 or 1911A1 unless issued by the US Army.

Colt has a www serial number lookup... that has never worked for me. You might do better, go to
http://www.coltsmfg.com/CustomerServices/SerialNumberLookup.aspx

I break them down roughly into early and late.
Early Mk IV Series 70 guns have a large "billboard" slide rollmark announcing the model. Also a matte nickel trigger and sandblasted walnut grips.
Late Mk IV Series 70 guns have a smaller roll mark, blue trigger, and checkered grips.
I have READ that the early models are better built, but have nothing to back that up. I only have one and it is somewhat modified.

bac1023
12-13-2012, 13:12
I meant its based on the A1.

Jim Watson
12-13-2012, 17:27
I know what you meant, but the terminology is abused bad enough. There are a lot of people who are quick to tell you the difference between a magazine and a clip, but will call anything remotely resembling a Colt auto a "1911."

MY pet peeve is the alleged bore diameter of .452".

sawgrass
12-13-2012, 21:34
In the early 1980s, Colt had an issue with union worker strike that badly affected both production quantities and production quality. Also in the late 1980s all the way through the early 2000s, Colt didn't really seem to give a damn about civilians (got lots of M16 sales to Uncle Sam, the cops, etc.) and did some really stupid stuff like removing the bayonet lugs on their AR-15s even before the Assault Weapon Ban. Business management was probably pretty bad because they cut corners everywhere and introduced some models that were either down right bad (Colt 2000) or badly researched & executed (Double Eagle). Even their vaunted Python line suffered from lack of quality control. The Python Elite's fit & finish were downright disgusting with some that they let out of the gate (I personally have seen two SS Python Elites whose finishes are fully of swirl marks).

Quality control with the M1911 was sporadic at best and down right bad at times. I have a 1993 Gold Cup which shot "OK", but the trigger pull is gritty AND some of the parts that were suppose to be mirror polished are at best satin polished with lots of swirls.

Colt was pretty much out of the game and traded on their marque. Somewhere in the 2000s, they decided to make a comeback and started turning out decent firearms again.

Thanks for the info.

sawgrass
12-13-2012, 21:48
Technically, no. It's a 1911A1. ;)

Do you see the scallop cut on the frame behind the trigger guard? That was another A1 enhancement to go with the short trigger and arched housing. They all combine to make the gun more comfortable in hand.

The cut is to make the short trigger easier to get to. The short trigger is to keep the reach about the same after the arched housing was added. The arched housing was to make the gun more comfortable and fill the palm better. 1911s before 1924 did not have any of these things, among a couple other A1 enhancements.

Hope this makes sense. :cool:

Yes it makes sense. Thanks for the info. Considering that
I'm vertically challenged, it fits my hand well. I sure hope to shoot it tomorrow. I basically felt that my little collection was missing a more base 1911 even if it is an A1. I guess it's the closest thing I have to a true 1911.
I had been considering a Springfield mil-spec and decided that, that was plain stupid and started looking for a Colt.
Yesterday there was a Series 80 at one shop for a lot less but I passed. I pulled into another shop just for the heck of it and one of the owners had put this one up for sale. I'm happy that's it's a little older and blued.

bac1023
12-13-2012, 22:11
Yes it makes sense. Thanks for the info. Considering that
I'm vertically challenged, it fits my hand well. I sure hope to shoot it tomorrow. I basically felt that my little collection was missing a more base 1911 even if it is an A1. I guess it's the closest thing I have to a true 1911.
I had been considering a Springfield mil-spec and decided that, that was plain stupid and started looking for a Colt.
Yesterday there was a Series 80 at one shop for a lot less but I passed. I pulled into another shop just for the heck of it and one of the owners had put this one up for sale. I'm happy that's it's a little older and blued.

Here's the Colt replica of the 1918 1911.

You can see the differences in the frame, MSH, and trigger. The hammer spur is also longer and the grip safety is shorter, which results in more hammer bite. The A1 attempted to fix this as well.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=320662672

sawgrass
12-14-2012, 06:54
Here's a pic. It's a little dark, but it shows the holster wear on the barrel and you can see the polish on the hammer and safety. It's about to get cleaned to be shot today.

bac1023
12-14-2012, 07:26
Looks great, SG

Its a classic for sure. :cool:

sawgrass
12-14-2012, 20:22
Trying to disassemble it I found enough cat hair to knit a sweater. I had a heck of a time taking it apart just because of gunk. It cleaned up well but I didn't shoot it today.
This was the first collet bushing that I have seen.

When I got to the club the President elect and the GM were busy talking smart and that led to more talk and then current events took over, and I never made it down to the range. Soon.

That said, positive energy for everyone after today's school shooting.

glock2740
12-14-2012, 21:12
Here's a pic. It's a little dark, but it shows the holster wear on the barrel and you can see the polish on the hammer and safety. It's about to get cleaned to be shot today.
Congrats! Good looking gun. :cool:

sawgrass
12-14-2012, 21:17
Congrats! Good looking gun. :cool:

Thanks!

fnfalman
12-14-2012, 21:18
That's a nice find!!! I bought one a few months back that was quite well used yet still shoots tight groups.

Just be careful with the collet bushing and don't break the leg off.

sawgrass
12-14-2012, 21:34
That's a nice find!!! I bought one a few months back that was quite well used yet still shoots tight groups.

Just be careful with the collet bushing and don't break the leg off.

GTK! Thanks.

Jim Watson
12-15-2012, 09:26
Just be careful with the collet bushing and don't break the leg off.

Ah, but he didn't say what care.
You should retract the slide enough to get the collet off the muzzle flare and relax from hard contact with barrel and slide when disassembling. Do not yank the engaged collet around hard with a bushing wrench. It is awkward to do this in the book field strip.
It is easier to do the "Air Force takedown." Retract the slide enough to push the slide stop out and remove the upper assembly all at once. Control the recoil spring as it comes out from under the dust cover. Pluck the spring, guide, and plug out of the slide. Run the barrel far enough forward to relieve the collet. Then turn the bushing and remove barrel and bushing.
Do not yank the bushing off the barrel, just leave it on the barrel while cleaning.

sawgrass
12-15-2012, 14:06
Ah, but he didn't say what care.
You should retract the slide enough to get the collet off the muzzle flare and relax from hard contact with barrel and slide when disassembling. Do not yank the engaged collet around hard with a bushing wrench. It is awkward to do this in the book field strip.
It is easier to do the "Air Force takedown." Retract the slide enough to push the slide stop out and remove the upper assembly all at once. Control the recoil spring as it comes out from under the dust cover. Pluck the spring, guide, and plug out of the slide. Run the barrel far enough forward to relieve the collet. Then turn the bushing and remove barrel and bushing.
Do not yank the bushing off the barrel, just leave it on the barrel while cleaning.

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate all of the info on here.