Which Colt would you buy? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ajgranda
12-13-2012, 07:57
Hi,

OK, there are two limited editions that I'm interested in.

First is the Colt Talo CC Government (01991CCG) 80 series.
Product #O1991CCG
Custom Colt Govt .45
Novak Fiber Optic Sights
Upswept Grip Safety
Elongated Slot Hammer
National Match Barrel
Slimline Grips
800 have been commissioned for build in 2012
Extended thumb safety
MSRP: $1079
Street price around 1K

Next is the Wiley Clapp Colt 01911WC (70 series) with
5-inch National Match barrel. It has a polished blue slide and matte blue frame; the grip frame has 25 LPI checkering on the frontstrap and mainspring housing, plus the heel of the mainspring housing is radiused. There’s also a beveled magazine well, standard GI safety and slide release catches, Commander Hammer, extended grip safety, plus a Novak Wide Notch rear sight and brass bead front sight. Where the triggerguard and frontstrap intersect, there’s a relief cut for shooter comfort and the walnut grips have an ergonomic tactical oval shape with a special checkering pattern, GI thumb safty and laser-cut Colt logo.
This gun has also been dehorned and has a slightly round butt. Two 8-round magazines accompany each gun and MSRP is $1,599.00
Street price around $1500

Do you feel the Wiley Clapp is worth $500 more for the 70 series and the few extra features? Also, I know a Les Baer CC would only run me a few hundred more, but I would need to change the sights (poor eyesight) to something similar, which would run me at least a couple of hundred additional. The DW Valor is similarly priced, but hard to find now and I would also need to change the sights. I will be using the gun as a CCW.
Thanks

bac1023
12-13-2012, 08:07
Just get the Talo. Spending that kind of money for a new Colt is not something I would do.

Either that or take the money and pick up a vintage Series 70 model.

fnfalman
12-13-2012, 08:11
They're both Talo specials.

I like Series 70 but I wouldn't pay another $500 to get it. Also, most people hate the "ergonomics" grips of the Wiley Clapp.

The fiber optics front sight work pretty well, even in dim light (better than the plain black version), as is the brass bead. So take your pick on the front sight.

bac1023
12-13-2012, 08:28
They're both Talo specials.



Yeah, I thought the Clapp model was also through Talo.

Baba Louie
12-13-2012, 08:39
Either that or take the money and pick up a vintage Series 70 model.Great advice as always.

But of the two choices ajgranda listed, I'd take the first of the two, the series 80.

Personally, I'd find a new Colt series 70, no limited edition stuff, shoot it a good while, then change out whatever I felt needed changing, like front sights if the eyes need it and hammer/grip safety if it bites. Well, actually that's all I'd have done as I tend to be cheap and prefer to keep things stock.

If I was really going to CCW, a LW, preferably Commander if stickin w/ Colt. and knowing myself, being cheap, and thinking that should I need use it, knowing I'll lose it, I would not put too much money into my carry piece. That's why God made Glocks and such :upeyes:

Obviously YMMV for any and all of the above. :whistling:

spsmith713
12-13-2012, 12:08
Just get the Talo. Spending that kind of money for a new Colt is not something I would do.

Either that or take the money and pick up a vintage Series 70 model.

This might sound like a dumb question:whistling: but what is the big fascination with the series 70s? I know they don't have the firing pin safety but besides that what else is there?

Tiro Fijo
12-13-2012, 12:14
FWIW, I shot a fella's brand spanking new Colt the other day at a range. It was the basic model. I was amazed at the barrel hood lockup and trigger as they were perfect. No offset drilled dust cover either. :cool:

fnfalman
12-13-2012, 12:48
This might sound like a dumb question:whistling: but what is the big fascination with the series 70s? I know they don't have the firing pin safety but besides that what else is there?

Personal preference and that's about it.

Some old wives' tales still exist about how the Series 80 trigger aren't as good or can be made as good as the Series 70 but that's not true. Custom gun makers have been making glass rod Series 80 trigger pulls for decades now, not to mention that you can't tell the difference between the two stock guns. The best trigger pull on a Colt I've felt was a brand new current stock Gold Cup, and it was compared to the old 1960s and 1970s National Match and Gold Cup.

faawrenchbndr
12-13-2012, 12:54
Neither,.......contact Crazy John & get a Baer for a bit more cash

bac1023
12-13-2012, 14:16
This might sound like a dumb question:whistling: but what is the big fascination with the series 70s? I know they don't have the firing pin safety but besides that what else is there?

They don't have something you don't need in the first place and they are true to more true to original 1911 spec. Besides that Series 70 guns certainly have better build quality than Series 80 guns of the 80's and 90's.

Serious 1911 people don't want stupid nonsense, like a firing pin safety in their guns. I know I sure as heck don't. Some will say it also changes the feel of the trigger, because the Series 80 safety works off the trigger.

Trust me, Series 70 guns hold their value MUCH better.

bac1023
12-13-2012, 14:18
Neither,.......contact Crazy John & get a Baer for a bit more cash

If it was me, I also wouldn't buy either of them.

spsmith713
12-13-2012, 16:23
Thanks for the replies/clarification.

Glock1963
12-13-2012, 16:42
Just get the Talo. Spending that kind of money for a new Colt is not something I would do.

Either that or take the money and pick up a vintage Series 70 model.

I hope no one minds if I hop in here for a few questions (and they're relative to the topic) for you.

I am newly interested in getting a 1911. I have read your guide and a lot of your posts. I have a Ruger SR1911 held for me at a shop if I want it. However, they don't care if I back out and opt for something else. It will likely be my lone .45 since I'm more of a 9mm guy. I want to get a good, mid-range priced 1911 and I want to get it right the first time.

They also have one of Colt's new Series 70 base model guns for $999.00 and it's beautiful. I am not a big fan of doing many modifications and I like clean lines and solid performance.

One of the employees there whose opinion I value claims that the Ruger is just as good of a gun for 300 bucks less. He added that he believes Colt has been riding off of their reputation since the '70's and they're not worth the premium price they're asking.

What do you think? I am not a rich man but I am the "buy once, cry once" type. I believe that in most things you truly do get what you pay for.

Thanks and sorry for rambling.

fnfalman
12-13-2012, 16:58
I hope no one minds if I hop in here for a few questions (and they're relative to the topic) for you.

I am newly interested in getting a 1911. I have read your guide and a lot of your posts. I have a Ruger SR1911 held for me at a shop if I want it. However, they don't care if I back out and opt for something else. It will likely be my lone .45 since I'm more of a 9mm guy. I want to get a good, mid-range priced 1911 and I want to get it right the first time.

They also have one of Colt's new Series 70 base model guns for $999.00 and it's beautiful. I am not a big fan of doing many modifications and I like clean lines and solid performance.

One of the employees there whose opinion I value claims that the Ruger is just as good of a gun for 300 bucks less. He added that he believes Colt has been riding off of their reputation since the '70's and they're not worth the premium price they're asking.

What do you think? I am not a rich man but I am the "buy once, cry once" type. I believe that in most things you truly do get what you pay for.

Thanks and sorry for rambling.

First of all, I think that you can negotiate the price of that Colt down to about $900.00

Secondly, the Ruger has casted frame. One can talk about the strength and longitivity of casted versus forged parts until the cows come home, but in the end forged parts cost more.

Thirdly, Colts of today are just as good as Colts of 1970s. Maybe not as prettily made as the 1960s and older, but easily match the 1970s Colts (I have two that were made in early 1970s).

Fourthly, it's a Colt. Twenty years from now, it's still desirable. Fifty years from now, it'd probably even be more desirable. May not matter to you but probably for your kins if you were to decide to make it an heirloom.

Fifthly, if you're gonna get just ONE .45ACP 1911 then get a Colt because...well...it's a Colt - the original. Les Baers, Dan Wessons, Wilson Combats, Ed Browns, Guncrafters, Remingtons, Winchesters, RIAs, Rugers, ad infinitum, may be better, may be more economical, may be whatever, but in the end they still ain't Colts.

glock2740
12-13-2012, 17:14
Neither,.......contact Crazy John & get a Baer for a bit more cash
Ditto. :thumbsup:

brianfede
12-13-2012, 17:17
Ever consider the 1918 repro? I was looking at the same 2 colts as you but ended up with this 229633. $1250.


But out of those 2 I prefer the WC, for some reason, though I think they are overpriced, I have a certain affinity for the WC models

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faawrenchbndr
12-13-2012, 17:17
A straight up 70 series would be my only recommendation.
The Wiley and Talo models are crap. Overpriced, poor fitment,
can not, will not recommend them.
Buy a 70 series reproduction and have it built by a shop that
knows what the heJJ they are doing.

brianfede
12-13-2012, 17:20
A straight up 70 series would be my only recommendation.
The Wiley and Talo models are crap. Overpriced, poor fitment,
can not, will not recommend them.
Buy a 70 series reproduction and have it built by a shop that
knows what the heJJ they are doing.

Exactly what I did!!!! Love my repro. Pic posted above


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bac1023
12-13-2012, 17:24
Ever consider the 1918 repro? I was looking at the same 2 colts as you but ended up with this 229633. $1250.


But out of those 2 I prefer the WC, for some reason, though I think they are overpriced, I have a certain affinity for the WC models

Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

There's actually a local shop in my area that has one of those for sale and I'm thinking I my grab it. I have one of those that's been turned into a Retro Custom build by Ted Yost at Heirloom and it would be cool to have the base gun as well.

Its not like Colt is making any more of them, so it might be a good investment as well. :)

faawrenchbndr
12-13-2012, 17:31
A carbonia blue one is the more desirable model, any idea which one it is?

brianfede
12-13-2012, 17:37
I think they made 4000 or so, certain serial #'s had a recall.


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Rinspeed
12-13-2012, 17:41
Neither,.......contact Crazy John & get a Baer for a bit more cash




Hard to argue with that suggestion no matter how smart one thinks they are. :dunno:

matt_lowry123
12-13-2012, 18:41
A straight up 70 series would be my only recommendation.
The Wiley and Talo models are crap. Overpriced, poor fitment,
can not, will not recommend them.
Buy a 70 series reproduction and have it built by a shop that
knows what the heJJ they are doing.


How are they crap? Does colt not build them? I'd think they'd build them in the same factory as the rest of the colt 1911's. I take it you're not a colt fan?

faawrenchbndr
12-13-2012, 20:00
I am a Colt fan,.......but very few models.
The Wiley & Talo models are over priced, and are fitted like ****!
They are a gimmick model, made to woo unsuspecting buyers.

I take it YOU are a Talo or a Wiley fan? :dunno:

ajgranda
12-13-2012, 20:54
.

I take it YOU are a Talo or a Wiley fan? :dunno:

Not really, I'm am somewhat of a Colt fan (newer models) and specifically like the features both guns have to offer.

sawgrass
12-13-2012, 20:59
A straight up 70 series would be my only recommendation.


Greg can you explain that more clearly, please? I'm trying to learn the differences.

Thanks.

SG

fnfalman
12-13-2012, 21:03
I am a Colt fan,.......but very few models.
The Wiley & Talo models are over priced, and are fitted like ****!
They are a gimmick model, made to woo unsuspecting buyers.

I take it YOU are a Talo or a Wiley fan? :dunno:

I don't care if it said Talo or Wiley Clapp in the name. I only care if the gun were to come with features I like.

If I could have gotten a brand new CCO without the Talo name, I would have. However, last I checked Colt doesn't put out the CCO in its regular line.

If I could have gotten a brand new .38 Super Lightweeight Commander without a Talo name to it, I would. Once again, it's hard to find something that Colt doesn't make in its regular line.

If a person were to want a brand new 9mm full size, guess what? Colt doesn't make one in the regular line but Talo has a special edition.

fnfalman
12-13-2012, 21:07
Greg can you explain that more clearly, please? I'm trying to learn the differences.

Thanks.

SG

The difference between a current Government Model Series 80 and a current Government Model Series 70 (not vintage MkIV/Series 70 or MkIV/Series 80) is the firing pin safety. That's it.

Let me clarify it a bit more: the major difference between the Series 70 and Series 80 Government Models in the current line up is the firing pin safety. There are two other items as well: arched mainspring housing vs flat mainspring housing, and short trigger versus long trigger (Series 70 the former and Series 80 the latter). However these items are easily rectified because you can fit either parts to either guns.
Finishes are the same, doodads are the same, fits are the same. Oh yes, the current Series 70 is about $67 more than the current Series 80 SS model, and about $92 more than the Series 80 blued model.

bac1023
12-13-2012, 21:22
Greg can you explain that more clearly, please? I'm trying to learn the differences.

Thanks.

SG

SG, the Series 70 is much more desirable to collectors and most shooters alike. Most people don't want the firing pin safety.


Greg just means a no frills Series 70 Government model.

GWG19
12-14-2012, 00:11
I paid $980.00 for my Wiley Clapp, I happen to like the grips. I also have the WC GP100. I really like the melt job on it and Novak Sights.
Colts I tend to like them all. My 1927 Commerical, Series 70, XSE, Wiley Clapp. I was unable to get my hands on a 100 year model.

ajgranda
12-14-2012, 06:13
I paid $980.00 for my Wiley Clapp, I happen to like the grips. I also have the WC GP100. I really like the melt job on it and Novak Sights.
Colts I tend to like them all. My 1927 Commerical, Series 70, XSE, Wiley Clapp. I was unable to get my hands on a 100 year model.

Wow, $980 for the Government model or last years Commander? I would love the Ruger GP100 WC also!

matt_lowry123
12-14-2012, 06:59
I am a Colt fan,.......but very few models.
The Wiley & Talo models are over priced, and are fitted like ****!
They are a gimmick model, made to woo unsuspecting buyers.

I take it YOU are a Talo or a Wiley fan? :dunno:


I'm very wooed by a few of their firearms :supergrin:

faawrenchbndr
12-14-2012, 09:14
Nothing wrong with that I guess.
In the end, you will have a better fitted, better looking higher
valued Colt if you have a prominent Pistol Smith modify a 70
Series reproduction Colt, than spending money on a Talo or Wiley.

matt_lowry123
12-14-2012, 09:35
Nothing wrong with that I guess.
In the end, you will have a better fitted, better looking higher
valued Colt if you have a prominent Pistol Smith modify a 70
Series reproduction Colt, than spending money on a Talo or Wiley.

I agree 100%

I do think it's nice to have the upgrades without having to send in a colt and drop another 1200+ dollars to get what you want. If I were to spend a total of 2400(+ or -) some. One would be better off getting a semi custom build. I guess in the end it's all subjective.

GWG19
12-14-2012, 16:21
Wow, $980 for the Government model or last years Commander? I would love the Ruger GP100 WC also!

$980 for the Wiley Clapp Light Weight Commander.
One of our local guns stores routinely sells firearms for 10% over his cost. You can expect a 45 minute wait on Friday and Saturdays if purchasing at this time of the year. Today they had seven sales guys with 3 to 4 people deep. Ugh.
I buy a lot from these guys and have for years, so I get a little better price, they also know what I like and call me when they get interesting pieces in. They called me while I hunting to ask if I was intrested in a 1966 38-40 Colt SAA. My reply was of course. They know my birth year, I like the 38-40, I like SAA's.
Pretty much a done deal.

ajgranda
12-14-2012, 17:07
One of our local guns stores routinely sells firearms for 10% over his cost. You can expect a 45 minute wait on Friday and Saturdays if purchasing at this time of the year. Today they had seven sales guys with 3 to 4 people deep. Ugh.
I buy a lot from these guys and have for years, so I get a little better price, they also know what I like and call me when they get interesting pieces in.

I've never had the privilege of seeing anything like that here in NY. :crying: