80% complete lowers? Whats the GT consensus??? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mixflip
12-15-2012, 13:41
I was at a gun show today and saw my first 80% AR15 lower up close. They guy was selling them for $80

What do my fellow Glock Talkers think of these? Im intrigued.

P.S. I just saw on ARFCOM that American Spirit Arms is offering 90% lowers now! $129

WoodenPlank
12-15-2012, 13:45
If you have an end mill, prints, and a lot of talent, they might be fun to play with.

If you don't have all of those, I don't see the point unless you want an expensive paperweight.

mixflip
12-15-2012, 14:29
Apparently all you need is a regular drill press. You can buy the jig that makes making the holes and cuts cave man simple.

I dont think the point of making a cheap lower is the point. I think the apeal is having a lower that is not registered or serialized. I guess the ATF allows folks to build a gun for personal use if they never transfer or sell it. Its basically a paper weight you make yourself, that shoots bullets.

That might be worth the price of admission?

crazymoose
12-15-2012, 17:13
You also have to anodize it, if you want it to be durable. While this could theoretically be done at home, getting it right probably isn't going to be easy.

WoodenPlank
12-15-2012, 17:24
Apparently all you need is a regular drill press. You can buy the jig that makes making the holes and cuts cave man simple.

I dont think the point of making a cheap lower is the point. I think the apeal is having a lower that is not registered or serialized. I guess the ATF allows folks to build a gun for personal use if they never transfer or sell it. Its basically a paper weight you make yourself, that shoots bullets.

That might be worth the price of admission?

If you're that desperate for an "of the books" rifle, then buy a lower receiver from a private seller (if that's legal in your state). Doesn't seem worth all the work and headache unless you have all the needed tools and supplies already laying around.

You also have to anodize it, if you want it to be durable. While this could theoretically be done at home, getting it right probably isn't going to be easy.

Almost forgot about that...

mjkeat
12-15-2012, 17:50
Could you skip anodizing and just ceracoat it?

WoodenPlank
12-15-2012, 17:54
Could you skip anodizing and just ceracoat it?

Since the anodizing process actually makes the top few thousandths of an inch more durable, AND adds a coating above that, I'm sure you'd be better off anodizing it than not.

mixflip
12-15-2012, 22:36
If you're that desperate for an "of the books" rifle, then buy a lower receiver from a private seller (if that's legal in your state). Doesn't seem worth all the work and headache unless you have all the needed tools and supplies already laying around.



Almost forgot about that...

LOL...good point. If someone asks where you bought the lower the answer is...some guy, I forgot his name and I didnt get a receipt. At this time it is legal to buy a long gun face to face in my town so I'll just do that. While its still legal.

mac66
12-16-2012, 06:48
It appears that many of you have the "I don't know about it therefore you shouldn't do it" bias.

Some of you are also missing the "I did it myself" point. There is a lot to be said for learning the skills and doing it yourself. Oh, and anodizing is not hard to do.

faawrenchbndr
12-16-2012, 06:48
Anodizing is a must with an aluminin forging. Think of it as surface
hardening treatment.

bmoore
12-16-2012, 07:23
Out her in CA you guy the 80% lower and about 100 feet away is where you pay the machine shop. You stand there next to the guy as he walks you through what buttons to push, the mills/machines are set up for AR lowers. The machining takes about 7 minutes a lower. I have a few friends that have done it. There is a 2 hour line wrapped around the building every weekend.

crazymoose
12-16-2012, 12:16
Oh, and anodizing is not hard to do.

Getting it anodized to some degree is one thing. Doing it to the proper mil-spec hardness is another question.

Gunny Lingus
12-16-2012, 20:34
I looked at the 80% lowers and came to the conclusion that all things considered, it would be good to have some "just in case". Same with AK flats. I have lowers that I've never done anything with..... just in case.

I suspect you could find a machine shop that makes AR lowers and have them anodize it for you.

If the "worst case scenario" comes to pass, will perfect anodizing and "military spec" really matter that much?

faawrenchbndr
12-16-2012, 20:55
......

I suspect you could find a machine shop that makes AR lowers and have them anodize it for you.

If the "worst case scenario" comes to pass, will perfect anodizing and "military spec" really matter that much?

Most machine shops will not touch a 80% lower. Build MUST
be accomplished npby the owner.

Worst case scenario,......install a set of KNS pins & go to town.

XDRoX
12-16-2012, 21:16
Most machine shops will not touch a 80% lower. Build MUST
be accomplished npby the owner.

Worst case scenario,......install a set of KNS pins & go to town.

Around here there's a shop on every corner that will complete the milling on an 80% lower. All you have to do is push the button to start the machine. There's build parties every weekend.

As far as the finish goes most shops will anodize for $10-$20 as long as it's still 80%. Once work has been done to it most shops won't touch it.

All the 80% lowers I've seen have not been mil spec after they have been made to 100%. It's a sub par product IME. If you want top quality then buy from a known manufacturer.

Show me an 80% lower that has been completed to 100% and looks half as good as a $120 Stag or JD and I'd be surprised.

faawrenchbndr
12-16-2012, 21:56
Does little good to anodize BEFORE the milling is accomplished.
As far as the milling parties,........skirting the thin gray line a bit
too far for my taste. ATF is a buch of boys I'd rather not **** with!

mac66
12-17-2012, 16:44
Does little good to anodize BEFORE the milling is accomplished.
As far as the milling parties,........skirting the thin gray line a bit
too far for my taste. ATF is a buch of boys I'd rather not **** with!

There's that "I don't know about it , therefore it is bad" thing again. I looked into it and there are indeed shops that let you come in and machine your lowers on their equipment. You are basically renting or using the equipment that is already set up. Milling parties? No thin gray line at all. The ATF isn't the boogyman. It has been done all the time for decades and you are arguing against it. :upeyes:

bigmoney890
12-17-2012, 17:11
I was at a gun show today and saw my first 80% AR15 lower up close. They guy was selling them for $80

What do my fellow Glock Talkers think of these? Im intrigued.

P.S. I just saw on ARFCOM that American Spirit Arms is offering 90% lowers now! $129

Unless you plan on cranking out a dozen, or are really paranoid about the gov't knowing you have an AR (or twelve), I don't see any benefit at all. $80 for the 80% lower, plus anodizing or coating of some sort, plus renting the machines (unless you have the drill presses already), plus the jigs needed. There are literally dozens of manufacturers putting out lowers at the $120 or lower range, so I certainly wouldn't pay $129 for a 90% lower. Doesn't seem like you would break even for awhile. So, I guess it's up to you to decide whether the benefits outweigh the hassle/time/costs.


With all of that said, I did browse over http://www.tacticalmachining.com/. The only instance I can see that I would purchase an 80% lower would be a single shot lower for an AR-15 50 bmg/338 lapua conversion since those single shot receivers are somewhat non-existent.

smokin762
12-17-2012, 17:24
I think it would be cool. I already own a blank upper and lower that I bought at the Gun show for $15.00 each. I am just not sure if I want to do it or not. At my work, we have a Bridgeport about 15 feet from me. I could set it up and run it while I am working. Or just clock out and use it. Anodizing might be a problem though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=30i_6awxEG4

smokin762
12-17-2012, 17:34
Unless you plan on cranking out a dozen, or are really paranoid about the gov't knowing you have an AR (or twelve), I don't see any benefit at all. $80 for the 80% lower, plus anodizing or coating of some sort, plus renting the machines (unless you have the drill presses already), plus the jigs needed. There are literally dozens of manufacturers putting out lowers at the $120 or lower range, so I certainly wouldn't pay $129 for a 90% lower. Doesn't seem like you would break even for awhile. So, I guess it's up to you to decide whether the benefits outweigh the hassle/time/costs.


With all of that said, I did browse over http://www.tacticalmachining.com/. The only instance I can see that I would purchase an 80% lower would be a single shot lower for an AR-15 50 bmg/338 lapua conversion since those single shot receivers are somewhat non-existent.

Youíre missing the point of no serial number. If itís not on the books, it doesnít exists.

bigmoney890
12-17-2012, 17:40
Unless you plan on cranking out a dozen, or are really paranoid about the gov't knowing you have an AR (or twelve), I don't see any benefit at all. $80 for the 80% lower, plus anodizing or coating of some sort, plus renting the machines (unless you have the drill presses already), plus the jigs needed. There are literally dozens of manufacturers putting out lowers at the $120 or lower range, so I certainly wouldn't pay $129 for a 90% lower. Doesn't seem like you would break even for awhile. So, I guess it's up to you to decide whether the benefits outweigh the hassle/time/costs.


With all of that said, I did browse over http://www.tacticalmachining.com/. The only instance I can see that I would purchase an 80% lower would be a single shot lower for an AR-15 50 bmg/338 lapua conversion since those single shot receivers are somewhat non-existent.

Youíre missing the point of no serial number. If itís not on the books, it doesnít exists.

Nope, I addressed that paranoia.

Plus, it's legal in a lot of states have third party sales for firearms, which will also be off the books. If someone desires to own a 80%, not serialized, not professionally done, lower for a lot more than a built to spec one, then so be it. Have fun, and make sure you guys wear your tin-foil hats this friday :wavey:

smokin762
12-17-2012, 18:36
Nope, I addressed that paranoia.

Plus, it's legal in a lot of states have third party sales for firearms, which will also be off the books. If someone desires to own a 80%, not serialized, not professionally done, lower for a lot more than a built to spec one, then so be it. Have fun, and make sure you guys wear your tin-foil hats this friday :wavey:

Once again, you missed the point. :faint:

If I was worried about my guns, I would have bought them used. I have a long paperwork trail. I usually buy new only.

bigmoney890
12-17-2012, 19:16
Unless you plan on cranking out a dozen, or are really paranoid about the gov't knowing you have an AR (or twelve), I don't see any benefit at all.

Once again, you missed the point. :faint:


I didn't miss the point. There is no benefit to the 80% unless you are cranking out a ton for your own personal armory OR ARE PARANOID ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT KNOWING YOU HAVE AR'S AND WANT AN "OFF THE BOOKS" GUN.

There are only two logical arguments as to why you want an AR "off the books." You are either going to commit a crime with a gun that cannot be traced back to you, or are paranoid about uncle same knowing you have it. Please enlighten me on how I missed the point?

smokin762
12-17-2012, 23:26
I didn't miss the point. There is no benefit to the 80% unless you are cranking out a ton for your own personal armory OR ARE PARANOID ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT KNOWING YOU HAVE AR'S AND WANT AN "OFF THE BOOKS" GUN.

There are only two logical arguments as to why you want an AR "off the books." You are either going to commit a crime with a gun that cannot be traced back to you, or are paranoid about uncle same knowing you have it. Please enlighten me on how I missed the point?

First, stop yelling at me. Calm down. :faint:

Sometimes, itís just knowing, you have something unique. It would be nice to having something, were you feel like you got over on the man for once. And itís legal to own. That part alone would drive the anti-gun group crazy. I think it would be kind of cool.

As far as the tin foil hat thing you are pushing, your right, they are never ever going to try to take away the peoples guns. The libs love us gun owners. Last I heard they want to have smores with us too. :whistling:

bigmoney890
12-18-2012, 00:03
First, stop yelling at me. Calm down. :faint:


I'm calm. Just wanted to make sure you read the part in all caps.


Sometimes, itís just knowing, you have something unique.


The only logical argument for 80% lowers so far.

It would be nice to having something, were you feel like you got over on the man for once.

And how would you be doing that?:dunno:



As far as the tin foil hat thing you are pushing, your right, they are never ever going to try to take away the peoples guns. The libs love us gun owners. Last I heard they want to have smores with us too. :whistling:

They want to do a lot of things, and will try a lot of things, but taking our guns away will not happen. They'll limit ammo production, ban the manufacture of new weapons, limit third party sales, and ban importation of weapons first before they even attempt to actual remove firearms from peoples homes. But if you honestly believe that they will or can take peoples gun away, then you are sadly mistaken and deserve that tinfoil hat. There are over 300,000,000 million guns in this country. Good luck with taking away all those guns from the law abiding, god fearing, second amendment loving, gun toting people of this great country.


And for the record, i'm not preaching against 80% lowers, just pointing out the flaws in them. Sure, it'd be cool to have one that you made yourself, but that's the only reason I can see that's a legitimate argument. It's not worth the extra cost unless you have a machine shop readily available that already has the jigs, otherwise you'd be paying for the lower, jigs, time on a drill press, and anodizing/duracoating. Not cost effective in the least. If you're desperate for an "off the books" gun, buy from a third party if your state allows that. If you want a firearm that you "made" yourself, then crank out a 80% lower.

smokin762
12-18-2012, 00:33
I'm calm. Just wanted to make sure you read the part in all caps.



The only logical argument for 80% lowers so far.



And how would you be doing that?:dunno:



They want to do a lot of things, and will try a lot of things, but taking our guns away will not happen. They'll limit ammo production, ban the manufacture of new weapons, limit third party sales, and ban importation of weapons first before they even attempt to actual remove firearms from peoples homes. But if you honestly believe that they will or can take peoples gun away, then you are sadly mistaken and deserve that tinfoil hat. There are over 300,000,000 million guns in this country. Good luck with taking away all those guns from the law abiding, god fearing, second amendment loving, gun toting people of this great country.


And for the record, i'm not preaching against 80% lowers, just pointing out the flaws in them. Sure, it'd be cool to have one that you made yourself, but that's the only reason I can see that's a legitimate argument. It's not worth the extra cost unless you have a machine shop readily available that already has the jigs, otherwise you'd be paying for the lower, jigs, time on a drill press, and anodizing/duracoating. Not cost effective in the least. If you're desperate for an "off the books" gun, buy from a third party if your state allows that. If you want a firearm that you "made" yourself, then crank out a 80% lower.

The getting over the man part, it would drive the anti-gun crowd crazy knowing there are guns out there that are unknown. For me, it’s like sticking it to the man. The ultimate get lost and in your face, female dog.

The tin foil hat thing, you have more faith in our fellow gun owners than I do. I picture plenty of gun owners running out the door screaming don’t hurt me, and throwing their guns out into the driveway before they do anything else.

For me, I work with people that can do a lot of thing with equipment. We can even make the jigs if needed out of scrap. All that is covered. The anodizing part, I know a guy that could do it for me, but I know he is busy with his own things for customers. I don’t like to bother him too much. He gets enough of that. I have the Dura Coat part down pat. I do it for myself and friends all the time. I am sitting on many bottles of different colors right now. I tell my friends you buy it, I’ll paint whatever you want, but I get to keep the reducer and left over paint. :supergrin:

bigmoney890
12-18-2012, 10:13
The getting over the man part, it would drive the anti-gun crowd crazy knowing there are guns out there that are unknown. For me, itís like sticking it to the man. The ultimate get lost and in your face, female dog.

The tin foil hat thing, you have more faith in our fellow gun owners than I do. I picture plenty of gun owners running out the door screaming donít hurt me, and throwing their guns out into the driveway before they do anything else.

For me, I work with people that can do a lot of thing with equipment. We can even make the jigs if needed out of scrap. All that is covered. The anodizing part, I know a guy that could do it for me, but I know he is busy with his own things for customers. I donít like to bother him too much. He gets enough of that. I have the Dura Coat part down pat. I do it for myself and friends all the time. I am sitting on many bottles of different colors right now. I tell my friends you buy it, Iíll paint whatever you want, but I get to keep the reducer and left over paint. :supergrin:

It's not that I have that much faith in my fellow gun owners, but have faith in the backwoods southern rednecks. I honestly believe that if the government started rounding up peoples guns, the backwoods rednecks would make them think again. Don't get me wrong, the government has the ability to do it, but I doubt they have the desire to lose an assload of people in three process.

And in your particular situation, an 80% lower would be a pretty good option. Hell, I might even crank a couple out if I were in the same place, but for the average joe, it's just not practical.

smokin762
12-18-2012, 11:22
It's not that I have that much faith in my fellow gun owners, but have faith in the backwoods southern rednecks. I honestly believe that if the government started rounding up peoples guns, the backwoods rednecks would make them think again. Don't get me wrong, the government has the ability to do it, but I doubt they have the desire to lose an assload of people in three process.

And in your particular situation, an 80% lower would be a pretty good option. Hell, I might even crank a couple out if I were in the same place, but for the average joe, it's just not practical.

Okay, you got me on the backwoods people. You win that hands down. :supergrin::rofl::rofl:

As far as the 80% lower thing, the other thing about buying a complete lower that does bother me is, you have to pay for shipping and the FFL. That could be an addition $40-$60 dollars more. That Palmetto lower that has been on sale before for $49.00 is now $90-$110 dollars after all the fees. I see no savings there. It would be cheaper to pay the $6.00 entrance fee at the gun show and pick up one there. Plus no waiting for it to get to your FFL or back orders.

bigmoney890
12-18-2012, 11:50
Okay, you got me on the backwoods people. You win that hands down. :supergrin::rofl::rofl:

As far as the 80% lower thing, the other thing about buying a complete lower that does bother me is, you have to pay for shipping and the FFL. That could be an addition $40-$60 dollars more. That Palmetto lower that has been on sale before for $49.00 is now $90-$110 dollars after all the fees. I see no savings there. It would be cheaper to pay the $6.00 entrance fee at the gun show and pick up one there. Plus no waiting for it to get to your FFL or back orders.


For someone that has the hook-up like yourself, then it'd be worth it to do the 80% lowers. But I would never be able to break even, unless I made 8-10 of them. If someone with a nice press and the jigs gave me the opportunity, i'd jump on it. Other than that, it's not for me, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a great thing for someone else.

Oh, and PSA does $7 shipping per lower.

smokin762
12-18-2012, 11:57
For someone that has the hook-up like yourself, then it'd be worth it to do the 80% lowers. But I would never be able to break even, unless I made 8-10 of them. If someone with a nice press and the jigs gave me the opportunity, i'd jump on it. Other than that, it's not for me, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a great thing for someone else.

Oh, and PSA does $7 shipping per lower.

The FFL I deal with only charges $20.00 for transfers. Most of them around me, charge $40-$70. I laugh at them.

Maybe I will do it one day. Just not high on my list right now. Right now, getting an Armalite AR-10A is more of a concern for me. :supergrin:

bigmoney890
12-18-2012, 12:05
The FFL I deal with only charges $20.00 for transfers. Most of them around me, charge $40-$70. I laugh at them.

Maybe I will do it one day. Just not high on my list right now. Right now, getting an Armalite AR-10A is more of a concern for me. :supergrin:

No one around here charges more than $30, thank god.

But same here, maybe one day, but getting set up for reloading it next for me :cool:

smokin762
12-18-2012, 12:24
No one around here charges more than $30, thank god.

But same here, maybe one day, but getting set up for reloading it next for me :cool:

I just took on the reloading thing myself. It's not as easy as I thought it would be. But I'm going to stick with it. It's cheaper for shooting. I started off with pistol first. I have already been reloading .45 ACP.

mac66
12-19-2012, 07:13
Ha, ha, that 80% lower thing is looking better and better for you guys that can't find lowers now.

Here's a tip, even during the last AWB, the flow of ARs and lowers didn't stop. Wait a couple months and the anti-gun hysteria (and panic buying) will slow down and everything will be available again.

Armchair Commando
12-19-2012, 12:07
I didn't miss the point. There is no benefit to the 80% unless you are cranking out a ton for your own personal armory OR ARE PARANOID ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT KNOWING YOU HAVE AR'S AND WANT AN "OFF THE BOOKS" GUN.

There are only two logical arguments as to why you want an AR "off the books." You are either going to commit a crime with a gun that cannot be traced back to you, or are paranoid about uncle same knowing you have it. Please enlighten me on how I missed the point?

Not entirely true, Some people actually get a joy out of making their own stuff! I make stuff all the time in my dads machine shop! I could give 2 ****s about what the government knows or not! and if i was going to use a gun for a crime it would be with a stolen gun off the streets, And they are very very easy to come by!

bigmoney890
12-19-2012, 12:41
Not entirely true, Some people actually get a joy out of making their own stuff! I make stuff all the time in my dads machine shop! I could give 2 ****s about what the government knows or not! and if i was going to use a gun for a crime it would be with a stolen gun off the streets, And they are very very easy to come by!

That's not a benefit, that's an excuse. Not an excuse in the bad sense of the word, but it gives you an excuse to build something.