Huckabee says lack of forced religion to blame. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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aspartz
12-15-2012, 17:47
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/huckabee-lack-of-religion-in-classroom-leads-to-violence-in-schools/

At one point this moonbat was a serious candidate for the GOP nomination for POTUS. Is there any wonder the GOP lost...

ARS

TheExplorer
12-15-2012, 17:56
Well, duh. Religious people don't commit crimes.

cowboy1964
12-15-2012, 17:56
Nice intentional misqouting. It doesn't say "forced" anywhere in the story. The only thing that has been "forced" is the secularization of our society.

AlexHassin
12-15-2012, 17:59
what a nut.

TheExplorer
12-15-2012, 18:01
Nice intentional misqouting. It doesn't say "forced" anywhere in the story. The only thing that has been "forced" is the secularization of our society.

The lunacy of the theory is still the same.

countrygun
12-15-2012, 18:06
The lunacy of the theory is still the same.

So you can misquote, add words change the meanings, and whatever you want if it fits the profile you want to create,

How Liberal of you. How long have you worked for the Obama Administration?

TheExplorer
12-15-2012, 18:08
So you can misquote, add words change the meanings, and whatever you want if it fits the profile you want to create,

How Liberal of you. How long have you worked for the Obama Administration?

The article said
Huckabee: Lack of religion in classroom leads to violence in schools (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/huckabee-lack-of-religion-in-classroom-leads-to-violence-in-schools/)



So go throw your liberal tantrum elsewhere, it's getting old.

ImpeachObama
12-15-2012, 18:11
Video games has not helped shape our society into anything decent among many other possibilities.

ColdSteelNail
12-15-2012, 18:18
"The lack of religion in classrooms leads to violence in schools"

Well, religion is still in the Catholic Church but priests continue to rape children.

ScubaSven
12-15-2012, 18:58
"The lack of religion in classrooms leads to violence in schools"


Madrasas

itstime
12-15-2012, 19:10
People just love to talk stupid.

countrygun
12-15-2012, 19:13
The article said
Huckabee: Lack of religion in classroom leads to violence in schools (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/huckabee-lack-of-religion-in-classroom-leads-to-violence-in-schools/)



So go throw your liberal tantrum elsewhere, it's getting old.

While you are humping my leg, show me the word "Forced" in there.

The constant and deliberate miss quotes are what's getting old.

GAFinch
12-15-2012, 19:19
"The lack of religion in classrooms leads to violence in schools"

Well, religion is still in the Catholic Church but priests continue to rape children.

Up to 4 times higher rate in public schools.

TheExplorer
12-15-2012, 19:24
While you are humping my leg, show me the word "Forced" in there.

The constant and deliberate miss quotes are what's getting old.

First, I didn't post this. Second, if you bothered to read my comment, I implied just the implication of the theory makes no sense.

8k + posts in less than 9 months and how many of them involve you causing trouble? Here's a hint, more than one.

Flintlocker
12-15-2012, 19:31
So you can misquote, add words change the meanings, and whatever you want if it fits the profile you want to create,

How Liberal of you. How long have you worked for the Obama Administration?

Considering the articles you post on this forum, this may be the most ironic thing I've ever read here.

SPIN2010
12-15-2012, 19:33
I am pretty sure the quote was:

"We ask why there's violence in our school but we've systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools have become such a place of carnage? Because we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability."

Forced religion? I am not seeing it. Maybe there are reading issues with liberal education? :dunno:

Gunnut 45/454
12-15-2012, 19:36
aspartz
Ah the atheists speaks! No where in Hucks statement did he say forced! Sounds like you already fear God! Thats good! Now run along Atheist cause your barking up a tree you don't want too!:rofl:

TheExplorer
12-15-2012, 19:37
I am pretty sure the quote was:

"We ask why there's violence in our school but we've systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools have become such a place of carnage? Because we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability."

Forced religion? I am not seeing it. Maybe there are reading issues with liberal education? :dunno:

It has been established the term "forced" is incorrect. The post is more about the theory that being religious automatically makes you a good person.

countrygun
12-15-2012, 20:02
First, I didn't post this. Second, if you bothered to read my comment, I implied just the implication of the theory makes no sense.

8k + posts in less than 9 months and how many of them involve you causing trouble? Here's a hint, more than one.

Congrats you have proved you can count to "more than one".

I was merely pointing out that the thread title was a lie?

Problem with that?

countrygun
12-15-2012, 20:03
Considering the articles you post on this forum, this may be the most ironic thing I've ever read here.

Why don't you bring up an article I've posted, or an example of one? I'd love to see it.

Let's see you prove up on that statement.

kirgi08
12-15-2012, 20:12
:popcorn:

Gunnut 45/454
12-15-2012, 21:18
TheExplorer
And who has said that? Yes it gives one a Moral compass. But as we know humans are not perfect. But we all know atheists don't have morals -how can they they don't believe in anything!:rofl:

muscogee
12-15-2012, 21:29
Then how does Mike explain this? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/us/03amish.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 or this, http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57408214/7-dead-in-shooting-at-oakland-religious-school/, or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Pius_X_High_School_(Ottawa), this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercaz_HaRav_massacre, this http://www.voanews.com/content/a-13-2008-03-07-voa5-66639947/557078.html or numerous others I could point to. Logic obviously isn't Mike's strong suit. Glad he's not President.

frank4570
12-15-2012, 21:59
Wow. An actual nutcase shoots up a school and he blames the removal of christian teachings and ceremonies. Sure, that's what causes people to be insane. Our political leaders are a little kooky.

countrygun
12-15-2012, 22:32
Wow. An actual nutcase shoots up a school and he blames the removal of christian teachings and ceremonies. Sure, that's what causes people to be insane. Our political leaders are a little kooky.

If there isn't an identifiable (human) reason, other than just "crazy" you might as well joint the antis in blaming the guns. They might not like it, but a decline in values is certainly an arguable position. Bear in mind that semi-autos, for instance, have been available since the very early 20th century. for decades in this Country there were no rules concerning the purchase except the sellers own. A teenage kid could purchase a Winchester semi .22 well before WWI and up 'till the 1960s in many places. Despite ups and downs in the number of these events they have increased since the early 1960s. The media is making sure that Americans believe this. How many would like to justify the increased pharmaceutical dependence on mental illness, meaning that we have more and more "Ill" people as time goes on? That's great there are all kinds of levels but what do you want to bet the strictest will be applied? and, of course they won't work. "Crazy" people will still get guns and that is not going to satisfy the antis. But we run into an interesting conflux of issues because the social desensitization of children and removal from responsibility can and often does, lead to a "learned" form of sociopathy. How was it that so many Germans were able to commit such horrendous acts against others in the camps? Those who would ignorantly claim "They must have all been crazy" might as well stick their heads in the sand (or somewhere else). It was a learned behavior.

We are, therefore, left with two possible factors as explanations. The desensitizing of young people to violence and to the consequences of their actions, or the availability of guns.

Pick one.

aspartz
12-16-2012, 00:54
The article said
Huckabee: Lack of religion in classroom leads to violence in schools (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/huckabee-lack-of-religion-in-classroom-leads-to-violence-in-schools/)



So go throw your liberal tantrum elsewhere, it's getting old.
By religion in the the classroom, he must mean teacher led prayer after attendance has been taken, since this is the only form of religion that has been removed. People are still free to pray all they want on their own time or even in class-time as long as it does not interrupt other students.

Either that, or he wants to return to the days when religion was taught outright as curriculum.

In either case, the religiosity is being forced on the students who are required to be there and "experience" the celebrations of one select group.

ARS

G29Reload
12-16-2012, 01:09
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/huckabee-lack-of-religion-in-classroom-leads-to-violence-in-schools/

At one point this moonbat was a serious candidate for the GOP nomination for POTUS. Is there any wonder the GOP lost...

ARS
Epic ignorance. I saw part of his show and his main point was when you kick God out of school and the public square, dont be surprised at the results. Or that hes the first one people ask for when things like this happen.

He's right.

vettely
12-16-2012, 01:28
I am pretty sure the quote was:

"We ask why there's violence in our school but we've systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools have become such a place of carnage? Because we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability."

Forced religion? I am not seeing it. Maybe there are reading issues with liberal education? :dunno:

Wow, crazy talk :upeyes:


Remove God and reap the rewards.

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 04:49
Epic ignorance. I saw part of his show and his main point was when you kick God out of school and the public square, dont be surprised at the results. Or that hes the first one people ask for when things like this happen.

He's right.
^^^^^This.

As a former minister, Huckabee was clearly referring to Romans 1:18-32, where Paul explains God's reaction to societies that reject him. For those of you unfamiliar with this incredible truth of the New Testament, look it up and read it three or four times. I pray that it will cause the scales to fall from your eyes.

Bruce H
12-16-2012, 05:39
Where was Huckabee's god the day he paroled the inmate in Arkansas that went to Washington state and killed four police officers?

Being a former minister doesn't hold much water either. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are also ministers. How about Fred Phelps?

rj1939
12-16-2012, 05:50
Where was Huckabee's god the day he paroled the inmate in Arkansas that went to Washington state and killed four police officers?

Being a former minister doesn't hold much water either. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are also ministers. How about Fred Phelps?

They are all politicians first and foremost, religion is secondary (if at all)
Billy Graham was drawn into the political arena a long time ago, it didn't take him long to realize his error and correct it.

I am far from a bible thumper, but since we have moved away from the conventional Judeo/Christian values into what.........secularism/statism, things certainly haven't improved. Not much hope or optimism in it.

ditto1958
12-16-2012, 05:52
You may disagree with Huckabee, but he's far from a kook.

Problem here is the young men and house who do these shootings seem to be mentally ill.

rj1939
12-16-2012, 06:10
I've not been sure what to think about Huckabee, but he is head and shoulders above what we've got now.

That can be said of every other candidate............possibly even Shillery.........did I just say that?

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 06:23
Where was Huckabee's god the day he paroled the inmate in Arkansas that went to Washington state and killed four police officers?

Being a former minister doesn't hold much water either. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are also ministers. How about Fred Phelps?

He was everywhere as always. Don't confuse a sinful believer with the perfection of God (that's a capital G by the way).

Cavalry Doc
12-16-2012, 06:25
Azparts brings in another one that should be in GTRI, the intentional misquoting is just par for the course and evidence of bias. Sorta dishonest of him.

Guys,
It's simple. Some use their faith to support their good deeds toward others, some don't.
Some fear final judgement, and avoid being bad, and some don't.
Some use their faith to support being very bad to other people.
The root cause is not religious belief, it's free will and human nature.
Some people are simply ARSEHOLES, and they actually want to inflict pain and suffering onto others.

Atheists? there are plenty that are moral and kind human beings. The average ones around here is just as zealously attached to their own religious belief system as any Jehovah's Witness at your front door, and mostly makes fun of the other religions. At least the ones that wear their atheism on their sleeve and bring it up constantly. There are a few agnostics and atheists that you wouldn't recognize as such unless that was actually the topic.



It's a game played over and over, and easy to see from my perspective. Azparts, how many openly atheist politicians are now serving in elected office?

Maybe we can talk some politics?

Paul7
12-16-2012, 08:20
Thanks for posting, I love this quote:

"People are going to want to pass new laws," Huckabee continued. "This is a heart issue ... laws don't change this kind of thing."

"We don't have a crime problem, or a gun problem, or even a violence problem. What we have is a sin problem," he said after the July shooting on Fox News. "And since we've ordered God out of our schools and communities; the military and public conversations... we really shouldn't act so surprised when all hell breaks loose."


As John Adams said, our form of government is made only for a moral and religious people, and is wholly inadequate for any other. Another one said there aren't enough laws and armies in the world to govern a people who won't govern themselves.

FYI, the CT shooter was an agnostic.

The belief in moral relativism has consequences. I'm not saying all skeptics are bad and all Christians are perfect, but the less belief in God's moral laws and a future accountability for our actions, the more of these crimes we will have. The CT shooter probably never had a Christian education, i.e., love your enemies and turn the other cheek, rather than shoot them.

I would argue on the economic front that the fading of the Protestant work ethic (which has Biblical support) has led to a nation of leeches who will vote for the guy who offers more free stuff.

From Wikipedia:

"The term was first coined by Max Weber in his The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, written in 1905. The Protestant work ethic is often credited with helping to define the societies of Northern Europe and other countries where Protestantism was common (for example, the Scandinavian countries, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United States of America). Writer Frank Chodorov argued that the Protestant ethic was long considered indispensable for American political figures:[2]
"There was a time, in these United States, when a candidate for public office could qualify with the electorate only by fixing his birthplace in or near the "log cabin." He may have acquired a competence, or even a fortune, since then, but it was in the tradition that he must have been born of poor parents and made his way up the ladder by sheer ability, self-reliance, and perseverance in the face of hardship. In short, he had to be "self made." The so-called Protestant Ethic then prevalent held that man was a sturdy and responsible individual, responsible to himself, his society, and his God. Anybody who could not measure up to that standard could not qualify for public office or even popular respect...."

There has been a revitalization of Weber's interest, including the work of Lawrence Harrison, Samuel Huntington, and David Landes. In a New York Times article, published in June 8, 2003, where the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development released an article that seems to confirm that "the experience of Western Europe in the past quarter-century offers an unexpected confirmation of the Protestant ethic. To put it bluntly, we are witnessing the decline and fall of the Protestant work ethic in Europe. This represents the stunning triumph of secularization in Western Europe -- the simultaneous decline of both Protestantism and its unique work ethic."[3]

happyguy
12-16-2012, 08:29
It has been established the term "forced" is incorrect. The post is more about the theory that being religious automatically makes you a good person.

I agree. We should just ignore the lies of the OP and let you guys change the subject.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

TheExplorer
12-16-2012, 08:31
I agree. We should just ignore the lies of the OP and let you guys change the subject.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

You are more than welcome to argue the thread title, but the content of the article is what we are debating.

steveksux
12-16-2012, 08:49
Nice intentional misqouting. It doesn't say "forced" anywhere in the story. The only thing that has been "forced" is the secularization of our society.
"And since we've ordered God out of our schools and communities; the military and public conversations... we really shouldn't act so surprised when all hell breaks loose."Sounds like he longs for the return of forced school prayers like the old days to me.

Nobody prevents kids from praying in schools should they wish to do so on their own without disrupting classes right now. As long as there is algebra there will be prayer in the schools.:rofl: What's prevented are things like prayers at graduations, games, at the start of class where everyone is forced to listen/participate.

It's an exceedingly stupid argument he's making anyway.

I was under the impression that they're still allowed to pray in places they call "Churches". If churches staffed with the professionally/ardently religious can't teach kids morality, then we damn sure don't need to waste time in schools having the teachers that can't seem teach the kids to read at grade level playing amateur priests trying to teach religion.

Randy

steveksux
12-16-2012, 08:53
Epic ignorance. I saw part of his show and his main point was when you kick God out of school and the public square, dont be surprised at the results. Or that hes the first one people ask for when things like this happen.

He's right.really???? You gotta be kidding me.

How many of those little kids killed were good Christian kids that went to Sunday school every week? God is a worthless psychopathic prick if he let that happen to them just to prove a point about prayers in public schools.

Huckabee is a shallow thinking moron.

I believe Bren posted a link in another thread where the worst mass killing of kids took place in 1927 in Michigan, 38 kids killed. I believe there was plenty of prayer in the schools back then. Guess Huckabee is just doomed to repeat nonsense because he's blissfully unaware of history.

Randy

steveksux
12-16-2012, 08:55
"The lack of religion in classrooms leads to violence in schools"

Well, religion is still in the Catholic Church but priests continue to rape children.Ziiiing!!!

/end thread

Randy

muscogee
12-16-2012, 09:13
He was everywhere as always. Don't confuse a sinful believer with the perfection of God (that's a capital G by the way).

God always gets a free pass doesn't he.

Gunnut 45/454
12-16-2012, 09:14
Bruce H
So now you are suggesting that Huck had to violate the laws of his state to prevent a parolee from getting out of prison? Huck was the Governor- not a parole board memeber who voted to allow the guy out of prison! By law he had no avenue to stop the guy's release! Sometimes you Libertards are beyond belief!:rofl:

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 09:15
No need to worry about the good Christian kids in that school, they're fine right now. You should worry more about your own fate and concentrate on answering the question that is really man's sole purpose on earth...

"Who am I."

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 09:16
God always gets a free pass doesn't he.

So you are going to hold Him accountable? The arrogance of the unbeliever is amazing.

Paul7
12-16-2012, 09:18
By religion in the the classroom, he must mean teacher led prayer after attendance has been taken,

Yes, like Congress does.

In either case, the religiosity is being forced on the students who are required to be there and "experience" the celebrations of one select group.

Big deal, let them plug their ears. Lots of students hear things they don't agree with.

Gunnut 45/454
12-16-2012, 09:21
beforeobamabans
Oh but to see there faces when they are in His presences to explain there lives to Him!!:rofl::supergrin::rofl: Now that would be a ticket I'd love to have a front row seat for!:supergrin:

Cavalry Doc
12-16-2012, 09:23
"The lack of religion in classrooms leads to violence in schools"

Well, religion is still in the Catholic Church but priests continue to rape children.

If you'll look around, you can probably find some pedophiles that are not catholic, or even christian.

So, your cause and effect chip is as broken as Huckabees, if not more. Pedophiles happen within and independent of religion. So does murder. So does rape and all other crimes against others.

If you were to think about it for a second or two, free will is to blame. Some people simply decide to do bad things. People are the problem, not all people are the problem, just some of them. Of course you cannot stop free will, no matter how hard you try.

There is really no need to know how this monster came to be, as there is no realistic way to prevent monsters from happening. They happen in many different ways. There is a way to stop them though, without using the children killed in this tragedy as a political football to continue your dislike of religious beliefs other than your own.

muscogee
12-16-2012, 09:26
So you are going to hold Him accountable? The arrogance of the unbeliever is amazing.

How is that arrogant?

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 09:28
How is that arrogant?

:wow::wow::wow:

AlexHassin
12-16-2012, 09:39
well considering overall violence in schools has gone down, maybe its a good thing you are not forced to toe the god line in school anymore.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage
(http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage)

Cavalry Doc
12-16-2012, 09:39
How is that arrogant?

Well, it does sort of make it sound like you can do something you can't.

If you are angry at him, and he doesn't exist, then what are you angry for in the first place.

If he does exist, and you are angry at him, what can you realistically do about it?


An interesting quandary.

steveksux
12-16-2012, 09:41
If you'll look around, you can probably find some pedophiles that are not catholic, or even christian.

So, your cause and effect chip is as broken as Huckabees, if not more. Pedophiles happen within and independent of religion. So does murder. So does rape and all other crimes against others.Your reading comprehension chip is broken. He's using the analogy to demonstrate the folly of Huckabees argument. Not to try to prove religion results in pedophilia. :upeyes:

Randy

steveksux
12-16-2012, 09:43
well considering overall violence in schools has gone down, maybe its a good thing you are not forced to toe the god line in school anymore.

http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage
(http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy/singlepage)Don't attempt to cloud the issue with facts!!!! :steamed::steamed::steamed::rofl::rofl::tongueout:

Randy

pipedreams
12-16-2012, 09:46
"We ask why there's violence in our school but we've systematically removed God from our schools," Huckabee said on Fox News. "Should we be so surprised that schools have become such a place of carnage? Because we've made it a place where we don't want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability."

Huckabee's whole point was there is no responsibility or accountability taught in schools anymore. Thou shall not kill or steal was a good rule to follow but since it is a religious based though it is not allowed.

muscogee
12-16-2012, 09:46
:wow::wow::wow:

No answer? Didn't think so.

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 10:00
No answer? Didn't think so.

Your question proves the answer. You do what most non-believers do, you have made yourself god.

RC-RAMIE
12-16-2012, 10:06
Yes, like Congress does.



Big deal, let them plug their ears. Lots of students hear things they don't agree with.

How about instead, they say their prayers in private.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

muscogee
12-16-2012, 10:11
Your question proves the answer. You do what most non-believers do, you have made yourself god.

Still no answer, but keep dodging.

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 10:29
Still no answer, but keep dodging.
I've answered you but you don't understand my answer because you do not believe God is what He is. But I'll take the bait...

If you understood who God is, you would be incapable of questioning his accountability. You would have a very humble picture of yourself as the lowly sinner you are in comparison to the perfect person of God. Your statement that "God always gets a pass" betrays your disbelief. You have answered the most important question of your earthly existence, "Who am I" incorrectly. By doing so, you have put yourself above God, deciding He doesn't exist or isn't who He is thereby substituting your earthly "wisdom" for His. There can be no greater or more disastrous arrogance. Please think through this in prayer.

hogfish
12-16-2012, 10:31
beforeobamabans
Oh but to see there faces when they are in His presences to explain there lives to Him!!:rofl::supergrin::rofl: Now that would be a ticket I'd love to have a front row seat for!:supergrin:

You'd have to be their. ;)

muscogee
12-16-2012, 11:02
I've answered you but you don't understand my answer because you do not believe God is what He is. But I'll take the bait...

If you understood who God is, you would be incapable of questioning his accountability. You would have a very humble picture of yourself as the lowly sinner you are in comparison to the perfect person of God. Your statement that "God always gets a pass" betrays your disbelief. You have answered the most important question of your earthly existence, "Who am I" incorrectly. By doing so, you have put yourself above God, deciding He doesn't exist or isn't who He is thereby substituting your earthly "wisdom" for His. There can be no greater or more disastrous arrogance. Please think through this in prayer. I understand your argument. I just don't buy it. God gets all the credit for everything good and none of the blame for anything bad. If I only understood as well as you I would agree. Rather convenient dodge isn't it?

aspartz
12-16-2012, 11:20
Azparts brings in another one that should be in GTRI,
I did not bring this in for a theological debate. The point was that yet again a prominent GOP member is spount religion rather than addressing the problem (which BTW is NOT gun control).
the intentional misquoting is just par for the course and evidence of bias. Sorta dishonest of him.You will note there are no quotation marks in the title. This is not a quote, it is an assessment of what he said.


Atheists? there are plenty that are moral and kind human beings. The average ones around here is just as zealously attached to their own religious belief system as any Jehovah's Witness at your front door, and mostly makes fun of the other religions. At least the ones that wear their atheism on their sleeve and bring it up constantly. There are a few agnostics and atheists that you wouldn't recognize as such unless that was actually the topic.I didn't bring up religion, Huckabee did. Why is it OK to wear your religiosity on your sleeve, in fact to base your political voting on it, but it is bad to question those that do so?
It's a game played over and over, and easy to see from my perspective. Azparts, how many openly atheist politicians are now serving in elected office?

Maybe we can talk some politics?I was (locally):whistling: Other than that There are very few openly serving. This does not change the fact that the founders intended for there to be a wall of separation.

Sounds like he longs for the return of forced school prayers like the old days to me.

Nobody prevents kids from praying in schools should they wish to do so on their own without disrupting classes right now. As long as there is algebra there will be prayer in the schools.:rofl: What's prevented are things like prayers at graduations, games, at the start of class where everyone is forced to listen/participate.

It's an exceedingly stupid argument he's making anyway.

I was under the impression that they're still allowed to pray in places they call "Churches". If churches staffed with the professionally/ardently religious can't teach kids morality, then we damn sure don't need to waste time in schools having the teachers that can't seem teach the kids to read at grade level playing amateur priests trying to teach religion.

Randy
+1
This was my exact point.
Yes, like Congress does.
Are the congressmen punished for coming in AFTER the fundies have their little show? Kids in school are.
Big deal, let them plug their ears. Lots of students hear things they don't agree with.The Constitution and the supreme court think otherwise.


ARS

beforeobamabans
12-16-2012, 11:24
I understand your argument. I just don't buy it. God gets all the credit for everything good and none of the blame for anything bad. If I only understood as well as you I would agree. Rather convenient dodge isn't it?

If you have a New Testament, please pray for understanding and take a look at the passage in Romans I referenced in post 29. Hopefully, it will make you curious enough to read the rest of Romans.

God chooses to allow evil in the world because there could be no free will without it. He wants you to love Him but He won't force you to do so. I won't pretend to be able to tell you what He is thinking but I'm quite confident He is heartbroken over the events in Newtown just as He is over every human action that rejects Him and His teachings. It is called sin and we all participate. Believers try really hard to avoid it, but it remains in our nature even after believing. That's why one should never hold a human believer (like Huckabee) up as an example. Look to the perfect example God gave us, Jesus Christ.

Cavalry Doc
12-16-2012, 11:32
I did not bring this in for a theological debate. The point was that yet again a prominent GOP member is spount religion rather than addressing the problem (which BTW is NOT gun control).
You will note there are no quotation marks in the title. This is not a quote, it is an assessment of what he said.


I didn't bring up religion, Huckabee did. Why is it OK to wear your religiosity on your sleeve, in fact to base your political voting on it, but it is bad to question those that do so?
I was (locally):whistling: Other than that There are very few openly serving. This does not change the fact that the founders intended for there to be a wall of separation.


+1
This was my exact point.

Are the congressmen punished for coming in AFTER the fundies have their little show? Kids in school are.
The Constitution and the supreme court think otherwise.


ARS

The founders disagreed among themselves a lot. They disagreed with themselves as individuals a lot, and like most humans had changing views on different subjects.

Some felt that the country would not survive without religious morality. Some thought there should be some separation, some thought there should be a lot of separation, some didn't speak much on that aspect at all. They were a group of very different people. Some of them were even despicable creatures, and some were honorable men.

Religion is what it is, a belief system. The religious beliefs of some people motivate them to do good, others to do bad.

I don't agree that a lack of forced religion was even discussed in the article you linked too. You added that to increase the post count in yet another troll thread.

Own it. It was a good play for a troll. Don't be shy about it.

aspartz
12-16-2012, 11:49
I don't agree that a lack of forced religion was even discussed in the article you linked too.
Huckabee was complaining about his God being removed from the classroom. The only thing that has been banned is coercive prayer during class time. Therefore he was looking for a return to the good old days when you could force the other kids to pray.

You added that to increase the post count in yet another troll thread.
I have no idea what my post count is, nor do I care. I have been here for a decade. I am hardly a troll. I appreciate the personal attacks however...

Own it. It was a good play for a troll. Don't be shy about it.
I stand by my original post. Pointing out the factors that are hurting the GOP in elections outside of the bible belt is fair game.

ARS

AlexHassin
12-16-2012, 12:00
Don't attempt to cloud the issue with facts!!!!

Randy
lol
Bring it :tongueout::tongueout::tongueout::tongueout::tongueout:

Cavalry Doc
12-16-2012, 12:12
Huckabee was complaining about his God being removed from the classroom. The only thing that has been banned is coercive prayer during class time. Therefore he was looking for a return to the good old days when you could force the other kids to pray.

You could force a kid to pray? Really? Maybe to be quiet, but prayer is in your own head.

Nah, I'm thinking you imagined that due to your own bias and irrational fear of christianity.




I have no idea what my post count is, nor do I care. I have been here for a decade. I am hardly a troll. I appreciate the personal attacks however...


I stand by my original post. Pointing out the factors that are hurting the GOP in elections outside of the bible belt is fair game.

ARS

You bring your dislike for the christian religion into almost every discussion you have, regardless of topic. I'm a confirmed agnostic and it's easy for even me to see you have some deep conscious or subconscious issues with that particular religion. Every chance you get...... :dunno:

muscogee
12-16-2012, 13:33
I've answered you but you don't understand my answer because you do not believe God is what He is. But I'll take the bait...

If you understood who God is, you would be incapable of questioning his accountability. You would have a very humble picture of yourself as the lowly sinner you are in comparison to the perfect person of God. Your statement that "God always gets a pass" betrays your disbelief. You have answered the most important question of your earthly existence, "Who am I" incorrectly. By doing so, you have put yourself above God, deciding He doesn't exist or isn't who He is thereby substituting your earthly "wisdom" for His. There can be no greater or more disastrous arrogance. Please think through this in prayer.

I don't want to pursue this here, but if you care to take it to Religious Issues, I'll be glad to give you a good drubbing.

muscogee
12-16-2012, 13:34
You'd have to be their. ;)

Their what?

TxGun
12-16-2012, 13:37
If you're going to quote someone, get it right. Your credibility goes out the window when you twist someone else's words so obviously.

steveksux
12-16-2012, 15:31
Huckabee's whole point was there is no responsibility or accountability taught in schools anymore. Thou shall not kill or steal was a good rule to follow but since it is a religious based though it is not allowed.That's perhaps the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. Rules against killing or stealing are not allowed in schools? Really?

Odd that while organized prayer in school is no longer allowed, schools still manage to have plenty of zero tolerance policies for any sort of violent acts.

Amazing also how plenty of cultures had rules against killing prior to Christianity too.

Randy

wingryder
12-16-2012, 15:49
Aren't there religious schools where kids can pray?

I think it is a fantastic idea to reinstate prayer in public schools! We should send our children to school with their prayer rug and a Q'uran.

Kentak
12-16-2012, 15:50
It's sickening how many, not all, persons of all political stripes and faiths have made unwarranted assumptions and claims to verify their own viewpoints or agendas.

This shooter, the previous shooter, the shooter before that, and on and on, all have one thing in common. They are "not right." The specifics may be different, but something is very screwy about their mental and emotional being. Deep psychosis, sociopathy, depression, rejection, desperation, alienation, god-knows-what, but something is not right. Then, something, almost always unpredictable, sets them off and they lash out. I don't understand it, you don't understand it, but anyone who thinks the answer is simplistic is having some sort of a problem recognizing reality.

PBR Sailor
12-16-2012, 15:53
Misquoting and mischaracterization of a high profile person seems to be the order of the day for journalists and GT posters who disagree with someone's beliefs.

hogfish
12-16-2012, 16:00
Their what?

Find the post I quoted, and look THERE. :supergrin:

wingryder
12-16-2012, 16:05
It's sickening how many, not all, persons of all political stripes and faiths have made unwarranted assumptions and claims to verify their own viewpoints or agendas.

This guy, the previous guy, the guy before that, and on and on, all have one thing in common. They are "not right." The specifics may be different, but something is very screwy about their mental and emotional being. Deep psychosis, sociopathy, depression, rejection, desperation, alienation, god-knows-what, but something is not right. Then, something, almost always unpredictable, sets them off and they lash out. I don't understand it, you don't understand it, but anyone who thinks the answer is simplistic is having some sort of a problem recognizing reality.

So, you seem to be the only one that is "right"? And the rest of the people in this thread are depressed sociopatic nutjobs? I guess that is the main problem with this thread. There are a lot of unsupported claims and name-calling being thrown around. Tell me who doesn't take offense to being insulted?

Kentak
12-16-2012, 16:26
So, you seem to be the only one that is "right"? And the rest of the people in this thread are depressed sociopatic nutjobs? I guess that is the main problem with this thread. There are a lot of unsupported claims and name-calling being thrown around. Tell me who doesn't take offense to being insulted?

Okay, I should have made it more clear. The "this guy, etc." I was referring to ARE THE NUTJOB SHOOTERS. Not the people in this thread. I guess I have to go back and edit it for ya.

Bruce H
12-16-2012, 16:39
Bruce H
So now you are suggesting that Huck had to violate the laws of his state to prevent a parolee from getting out of prison? Huck was the Governor- not a parole board memeber who voted to allow the guy out of prison! By law he had no avenue to stop the guy's release! Sometimes you Libertards are beyond belief!:rofl:

If you had one brain cell that worked you would be very dangerous. Huckabee pardoned the individual. The parole board thought it was a good idea. The whole thing rests on Huckabees ass because he was ultimately responsible.

steveksux
12-16-2012, 16:44
So, you seem to be the only one that is "right"? And the rest of the people in this thread are depressed sociopatic nutjobs? I guess that is the main problem with this thread. There are a lot of unsupported claims and name-calling being thrown around. Tell me who doesn't take offense to being insulted?I could be wrong, i assumed Kentak was referring to this shooter, and prior shooters involved in mass shootings, as the ones being "not right" as in not right in the head, not the people on the board... :wavey::supergrin:

It's sickening how many, not all, persons of all political stripes and faiths have made unwarranted assumptions and claims to verify their own viewpoints or agendas.

This shooter, the previous shooter, the shooter before that, and on and on, all have one thing in common. They are "not right." The specifics may be different, but something is very screwy about their mental and emotional being. Deep psychosis, sociopathy, depression, rejection, desperation, alienation, god-knows-what, but something is not right. Then, something, almost always unpredictable, sets them off and they lash out. I don't understand it, you don't understand it, but anyone who thinks the answer is simplistic is having some sort of a problem recognizing reality.

Randy

Kentak
12-16-2012, 17:03
I could be wrong, i assumed Kentak was referring to this shooter, and prior shooters involved in mass shootings, as the ones being "not right" as in not right in the head, not the people on the board... :wavey::supergrin:



Randy

You're right, of course. I did go back and edit my post to make it clear I was referring to the deranged shooters.

Honestly, I don't see how the context of my post could cause that confusion, but...well, you know.

steveksux
12-16-2012, 17:32
You're right, of course. I did go back and edit my post to make it clear I was referring to the deranged shooters.

Honestly, I don't see how the context of my post could cause that confusion, but...well, you know.

Sometimes you read something too fast.... I know it's happened to me before. And maybe I read it after you had gone back and corrected it.

ETA: I just saw the original post quoted, I had seen the original...

Randy

MoCop
12-16-2012, 21:08
What's been forced out is God. God is being forced out of our Country. Because of this,we as a nation have become corrupt and are losing our way. It certainly doesn't help any that we (mankind) are all ready fallen by nature, so when God is removed forcefully, and His laws (which are holy) are replaced with man's laws (in which we deem are better replacements than God's), this is what you get. We are reaping what we sow and if we keep down this path, it will get worse.

RyanBDawg
12-16-2012, 21:14
Someone should kill a bunch of people just to make sure everyone knows how important their god is.

Why any sensible human being continues to watch corporate media and believe anything that they say is beyond me.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Cavalry Doc
12-17-2012, 06:37
Someone should kill a bunch of people just to make sure everyone knows how important their god is.

Why any sensible human being continues to watch corporate media and believe anything that they say is beyond me.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


Did you come up with that yourself? That's the first time I'm seeing this suggestion, and it's way over the top. Poor form.

ModGlock17
12-17-2012, 06:52
"LACK of RELIGION"

I don't think that's what Huck said.

I think what he said and meant, was the lack of God or denial of God in the society.

series1811
12-17-2012, 07:23
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/huckabee-lack-of-religion-in-classroom-leads-to-violence-in-schools/

At one point this moonbat was a serious candidate for the GOP nomination for POTUS. Is there any wonder the GOP lost...

ARS

Well, despite your misquoting (to make your point better, I guess), I agree one hundred percent with what Huckabee said.

That's based on my life experience, and a 27 year career of dealing with criminals. Obviously, your life experience has taught you something different.

Paul7
12-17-2012, 10:12
Are the congressmen punished for coming in AFTER the fundies have their little show? Kids in school are.

Cite?

The Constitution and the supreme court think otherwise.

No, a gross misinterpretation of the Constitution says so. Do you think judges can be wrong?

countrygun
12-17-2012, 12:13
Not too many years ago kids went to church and learned a value system that was, all in all, pretty consistent from denomination to denomination. whether or not they BELIEVED in God, Creationism etcetera was actually up to the child, yes folks, it was in their own head whether they accepted the religious aspect, but they learned a set of values and principles through the parables in the bible. society reinforced these through behaviors and the laws and even the principles of many of the rules in the schools, yes the PRINCIPLES NOT the "RELIGION".

Today there is no consistent value system, religion is disparaged and the kids spend Sundays playing 3-d video games depicting killing and violence, Movies glorify violence, where are the moral values being taught now? With so many broken homes who is taking the responsibility of teaching values to children?

We wonder why we have problems with adolescents and young, supposed 'adults" committing these acts. Really? is it that surprising? are you not paying attention because you are too busy?

aspartz
12-17-2012, 17:30
You could force a kid to pray? Really? Maybe to be quiet, but prayer is in your own head.
You apparently have no concept of peer pressure. You also don't seem to realize how badly organized prayer marginalizes the non-believers. Yes, you are FORCING the kids to pray, or be subjected to unneeded pressure. There is no gain and a great deal of loss. Pray on your own time.

Nah, I'm thinking you imagined that due to your own bias and irrational fear of christianity....or the actual memories I have from my childhood. I have no FEAR of xians. I do however take issue when they think their belief system is the only valid option and as such needs to be codified in our laws.

Schools may not be allowed to teach "right and wrong" but they can still teach legal/illegal. Thou shalt not rob or kill are good examples of the latter. Keep holy the lords day and have no other idols are examples of the former.

You bring your dislike for the christian religion into almost every discussion you have, regardless of topic. I'm a confirmed agnostic and it's easy for even me to see you have some deep conscious or subconscious issues with that particular religion. Every chance you get...... :dunno:Actually I only bring religion into an argument when it gets brought into the political sphere. You are free to worship as you wish, just don't require other people to participate against their will and don't ask the government to pay for it.


ARS

aspartz
12-17-2012, 17:34
"LACK of RELIGION"

I don't think that's what Huck said.

I think what he said and meant, was the lack of God or denial of God in the society.
So, in other words, he won't be happy until HIS version of a supreme being is the only one being forced into society by the government.

As I have said many times. The only religion or God that has been forced out of schools by the government are the coercive school led prayer and use of tax payer equipment.

ARS

Cavalry Doc
12-17-2012, 19:04
You apparently have no concept of peer pressure. You also don't seem to realize how badly organized prayer marginalizes the non-believers. Yes, you are FORCING the kids to pray, or be subjected to unneeded pressure. There is no gain and a great deal of loss. Pray on your own time.

...or the actual memories I have from my childhood. I have no FEAR of xians. I do however take issue when they think their belief system is the only valid option and as such needs to be codified in our laws.

Schools may not be allowed to teach "right and wrong" but they can still teach legal/illegal. Thou shalt not rob or kill are good examples of the latter. Keep holy the lords day and have no other idols are examples of the former.
Actually I only bring religion into an argument when it gets brought into the political sphere. You are free to worship as you wish, just don't require other people to participate against their will and don't ask the government to pay for it.


ARS

You, apparently, are weak of mind and spirit. You had the chance to choose your own way, as did I. I spent the last couple of years that I attended church with my parents doubting god, listening to the prayers, and thinking that no one was listening. I was almost a committed atheist at the time. The act of going to church in my adolescence and listening to others pray did not force anything on me at all.

Yeah, I saw the good intentions, and at the time, considered it totally useless and futile. Not all the believers were bad, but I had seen enough hypocrites to question all of it. Pastors cheating on their wives. Youth Pastors having sex with young girls on the back of the bus. The facade was pure, but the reality was ugly. Now, granted, that may have just been an isolated incident, but it was what it was.

Maybe I was brought up tougher than you, and able to resist peer pressure, and make my own way in life. That could also be the reason I have a job, and you draw a check too.

Even though I am a committed agnostic, I have a moral code. There are no rules engraved on stone tablets that I follow, but I know what feels right, and what feels wrong. You don't go out of your way to cause trouble for others. You should go out of your way to NOT cause trouble for others. Give when you can, and always avoid taking when you can. Work Hard. Get up early, and stay up late when needed. Answer calls for help from friends immediately.

Risk all that you are, and all that you will ever be for your children. Even if it means that you may die to serve as a good example for them. There are heroes and zero's everywhere. Heroes risk themselves for the benefit of others, and realize that one thing is certain. We all die at least once. If necessary, I am prepared to die well.

How about you? Any chance you have a problem with epistaxis every 28 days?