Torn between a WC or a NHC, 4" vs 5" [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ajgranda
12-16-2012, 07:34
Hi,

OK, as my search continues, I found a NIB, (3/2011 build), WC Professional 4" with wide notch rear, tritium FS, carry cuts, round butt, flat wire recoil spring in SS for $2650 shipped. I also found a NHC Falcon fullsize (Nov 2012) build, standard with all billet forged parts for $2740 shipped. I know the NHC is the better deal, as it retails for $3300. The WC retailed at time of the build for $2915. I'm going to use the gun to carry in cooler weather. I think the WC would make a slightly better carry gun, but the NHC is the better deal. At this point I don't know which to jump on. What do you guys think?
THX

Dsully
12-16-2012, 08:09
I own a bill Wilson carry and NH falcon. Both are very nice pistols but my falcon is one of my favorites. Full size 1911s are much more fun to shoot as well. Congrats on whatever choose

bac1023
12-16-2012, 08:42
I prefer full size.

That said, as much as like NH, I give Wilson the edge overall.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 09:18
I prefer full size.

That said, as much as like NH, I give Wilson the edge overall.

Brian, even with the NH being the better deal? Cheapest price you can find elsewhere on a recently built NHC with the higher grip, Black Nitride (which is supposed to be even stronger than Melonite) and all forged parts is 3K.

MD357
12-16-2012, 10:31
IF you keep this gun, who cares what kind of "deal" you got? WC is a better company and builds better guns IMO, and the 4" will carry a bit better.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 10:54
IF you keep this gun, who cares what kind of "deal" you got? WC is a better company and builds better guns IMO, and the 4" will carry a bit better.

If you asked me a year ago I would concur that WC builds better guns and had better CS than NHC. Lately though, it looks like NHC has improved with updating all their guns to all Bar Stock parts, a higher grip cut along with a single gunsmith builds (in my case Travis Gregory, a master builder) all their guns now. I agree that the WC will carry a little better, but not by much.:dunno::dunno: I'm still really torn. I think the fact that the WC is 21 months old, although NIB, has me leaning toward the NHC Falcon. How concerned do you all think I should be of this? Thanks

mleroux21
12-16-2012, 11:07
I would personally go with the Wilson. But it is up to you. I think you can't go wrong either way.

Marc

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 11:19
Here are pics of both guns. I wish I could buy them both.:crying:

MD357
12-16-2012, 12:24
In terms of carry alone, you're looking at a 5" gun with a magwell vs a 4" gun with a slight bob. Brand opinions aside, which do you think will carry better for YOU? I know it would be a no brainer for me.

As far as your worry about the age of a gun, look at it logically. Do you for whatever reason believe that the age of the gun compromises it's ability to perform? Granted NH may be on the right track NOW.... Wilson has been on the right track for years.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 12:39
In terms of carry alone, you're looking at a 5" gun with a magwell vs a 4" gun with a slight bob. Brand opinions aside, which do you think will carry better for YOU? I know it would be a no brainer for me.

As far as your worry about the age of a gun, look at it logically. Do you for whatever reason believe that the age of the gun compromises it's ability to perform? Granted NH may be on the right track NOW.... Wilson has been on the right track for years.

The Falcon has a rounded one piece magwell, so that should help with printing/comfort. The Falcon also has all billet parts which the Professional does not. Not sure how much of a practical difference that makes. I am just so torn........

bac1023
12-16-2012, 13:58
Brian, even with the NH being the better deal? Cheapest price you can find elsewhere on a recently built NHC with the higher grip, Black Nitride (which is supposed to be even stronger than Melonite) and all forged parts is 3K.

I'm just saying I feel Wilson is the better company overall. NH is great and getting better, but I still don't feel they're up to Wilson's quality level. Its close these days though.

Is it definitely going to be a carry gun? If not, I'd go for the NH just because I so much prefer a 5" 1911. However, a mag well coupled with a 5" barrel will make it tougher the carry concelaed than the Wilson.

glock2740
12-16-2012, 15:11
I own Wilson's and NH's. 2 of the Wilson's are the size you are looking at (ULCc and Stealth) and 1 of the NH's is the same one you are looking (Falcon). While I'm loving my Falcon, I'd say that Wilson is the better company and still makes the better gun too. And for CC, I say Wilson all day long.

Wilson ULCc and Stealth
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/Wilsonfamily4.jpg

NH Falcon
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/1911%20pics/NH1.jpg

:)

MD357
12-16-2012, 15:46
The Falcon had a rounded one piece magwell, so that should help with printing/comfort.

Not really, my Wilson CQB has a rounded magwell and there's a significant difference between it and my commander. I will say that I don't mind carrying a 5" in cold weather. It all depends on your carry rig and body type.


The Falcon also all billet parts which the Professional does not. Not sure how much of a practical difference that makes. I am just so torn........

From my experiences... none. It's nice and all but I've seen a Wilson go 80K+ rounds with no replacements including the barrel.

glock2740
12-16-2012, 15:50
Here are pics of both guns. I wish I could buy them both.:crying:
I definately say Wilson after looking at those pics, but DAMN!!!:wow: I gotta get a set of those grips for my Falcon. Those are very cool and very unique. :cool:

bac1023
12-16-2012, 16:02
I definately say Wilson after looking at those pics, but DAMN!!!:wow: I gotta get a set of those grips for my Falcon. Those are very cool and very unique. :cool:

Those grips are cool for sure. I wonder who makes them for Nighthawk?

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 16:03
I definately say Wilson after looking at those pics, but DAMN!!!:wow: I gotta get a set of those grips for my Falcon. Those are very cool and very unique. :cool:

For sure, that just complete's the Falcon. They seems so nice I might even put them on the Pro if I go that route.

glock2740
12-16-2012, 16:08
Those grips are cool for sure. I wonder who makes them for Nighthawk?
Don't know, but I know NH well enough to know that they're ONLY available through NH. I'm gonna pick up a set for my Falcon. Perfect wooden grips for that gun. :cool:
For sure, that just complete's the Falcon. They seems so nice I might even put them on the Pro if I go that route.
Blasphemy! :steamed:

:rofl:

SpringerTGO
12-16-2012, 16:25
I made the mistake of buying a Nighthawk, and have never been treated worse by any company. Their customer service sucks. The gun (T3) needed to be sent back, and they grudgingly paid shipping one way.
The service was so bad I called Wilson to see if they would work on a Nighthawk. Wilson would.

I would RUN from Nighthawk, and buy the Wilson. You might save a few $'s on the Nighthawk, but there is a reason why Wilson's reputation is stellar, but with a little digging you will see that my experience with Nighthawk is not unique.
Neither 1911 is cheap, and in the long run the Wilson will most likely turn out to be a bargain compared to Nighthawk.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 16:56
but with a little digging you will see that my experience with Nighthawk is not unique.


Actually, you have probably complained more about NHC than any other poster. :whistling: At least in this forum. I do feel that your experience was one of the exceptions. I also feel that NHC has improved quite a bit in the past year. I will say and agree with you and others that Wilson is the better company of the two and there have been more complaints regarding customer service with NHC than WC, but less than EB or LB. Based on reading several thousand posts in the last few years on several forums.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 17:02
Not really, my Wilson CQB has a rounded magwell and there's a significant difference between it and my commander. I will say that I don't mind carrying a 5" in cold weather. It all depends on your carry rig and body type.




From my experiences... none. It's nice and all but I've seen a Wilson go 80K+ rounds with no replacements including the barrel.

Does WC magwell look like NHC? Thanks

glock2740
12-16-2012, 17:02
I made the mistake of buying a Nighthawk, and have never been treated worse by any company. Their customer service sucks. The gun (T3) needed to be sent back, and they grudgingly paid shipping one way.
The service was so bad I called Wilson to see if they would work on a Nighthawk. Wilson would.

I would RUN from Nighthawk, and buy the Wilson. You might save a few $'s on the Nighthawk, but there is a reason why Wilson's reputation is stellar, but with a little digging you will see that my experience with Nighthawk is not unique.
Neither 1911 is cheap, and in the long run the Wilson will most likely turn out to be a bargain compared to Nighthawk.
IMO, the T3 should have been discontinued as soon as they started coming back in. They have been the sole gun that has given NH it's recent black eye. I don't think I've heard of one that hasn't had to go back for some reason yet. For some reason, they just flat out missed the bus on that model. You couldn't give me a T3 and I actually liked them when they first came out. Love the look, but they SUCK. No thanks.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 17:05
Don't know, but I know NH well enough to know that they're ONLY available through NH. I'm gonna pick up a set for my Falcon. Perfect wooden grips for that gun. :cool:

Blasphemy! :steamed:

:rofl:

As long as it doesn't have the NHC emblem, I think I can get away with it.:supergrin:

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 17:07
IMO, the T3 should have been discontinued as soon as they started coming back in. They have been the sole gun that has given NH it's recent black eye. I don't think I've heard of one that hasn't had to go back for some reason yet. For some reason, they just flat out missed the bus on that model. You couldn't give me a T3 and I actually liked them when they first came out. Love the look, but they SUCK. No thanks.

OK, I'll agree that the T3 has been NHC most problematic model by far.

glock2740
12-16-2012, 17:13
OK, I'll agree that the T3 has been NHC most problematic model by far.
I can't count on one hand hearing about anyother model NH having issues, other than the T3. Other than the T3 and the way NH has handled, per what I have read about on forums, their customer service, I've had no issues with my 2 NH's. Granted, my newest one, the Falcon, only has a couple hundred rounds through it, but, nonetheless. :cool:

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 17:14
I own Wilson's and NH's. 2 of the Wilson's are the size you are looking at (ULCc and Stealth) and 1 of the NH's is the same one you are looking (Falcon). While I'm loving my Falcon, I'd say that Wilson is the better company and still makes the better gun too. And for CC, I say Wilson all day long.



Thanks, I'm still not sure how much I'll be carrying the gun. My XD45 Compact is my workhorse almost all year round. I'm going to be trading in the XD40sc, since it doesn't conceal much better in my Tucker Answer than the 45C. I really thought though that the Falcon's magwell would help with printing and comfort as a CCW. :dunno: Also, I'm looking to pick up either a Kahr PM9, or as crazy as I may sound, a .32acp Seecamp for those really hot days when I need deep concealment.

MD357
12-16-2012, 17:31
Aj, again..... a 5" gun carries a differently than a 4" gun. If you are getting in and out of a car, sitting down, etc it makes a difference depending on your rig, body type and method of carry.

I'd forgo the seecamp and highly recommend the Kahr.

glock2740
12-16-2012, 17:42
Thanks, I'm still not sure how much I'll be carrying the gun. My XD45 Compact is my workhorse almost all year round. I'm going to be trading in the XD40sc, since it doesn't conceal much better in my Tucker Answer than the 45C. I really thought though that the Falcon's magwell would help with printing and comfort as a CCW. :dunno: Also, I'm looking to pick up either a Kahr PM9, or as crazy as I may sound, a .32acp Seecamp for those really hot days when I need deep concealment.
I have CC'd my Falcon daily, since buying it in a Brommeland Max Con V. And the weather has been shorts weather, and I've been wearing shorts and a T-shirt while wearing that rig. Yeah, there's ALOT better rigs that conceal ALOT better, but it CAN be done just fine, with the right rig. The Wilson WILL conceal better. Period. As for the Kahr and Seecamp, I'm not a fan of either. And .32ACP? WTF are you thinking man?!?:dunno: When I want to go "deep cover", I carry a G26 or G27 in a CBST. I also pocket carry a LCP in a Nemesis, but VERY RARELY has that been my main carry gun. That's more of a "I think I'll just run down to the local Qwik-e-mart" type gun.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 18:20
I have CC'd my Falcon daily, since buying it in a Brommeland Max Con V. And the weather has been shorts weather, and I've been wearing shorts and a T-shirt while wearing that rig. Yeah, there's ALOT better rigs that conceal ALOT better, but it CAN be done just fine, with the right rig. The Wilson WILL conceal better. Period. As for the Kahr and Seecamp, I'm not a fan of either. And .32ACP? WTF are you thinking man?!?:dunno: When I want to go "deep cover", I carry a G26 or G27 in a CBST. I also pocket carry a LCP in a Nemesis, but VERY RARELY has that been my main carry gun. That's more of a "I think I'll just run down to the local Qwik-e-mart" type gun.

Thanks, I've actually shot a PM9 and liked it. Although, I remember the early models being plagued with issues. All the bugs seem to finally have been worked out. Only took 7-8 years or so. :-) I never shot a Seecamp and you are right. I would be crazy to ever carry that as my primary gun. Temporary brain lapse.:rofl: I handled one at my local GD and thought it was a piece of art. No question that the PM9 would make a much better hot weather CCW. Maybe I might buy a Seecamp as a pocket back up one day though. I've handled an LCP and I didn't really care for it much. Different strokes for different folks I guess.:supergrin:

Anyway, I think I'm leaning more toward the Professional since I know I will carry it more than a fullsize. It will also present itself faster than a 5". I still think the Falcon is the better looking gun though and I'm sure it has more man time into building it. I would jump on buying both if I had the cash.

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 18:26
Aj, again..... a 5" gun carries a differently than a 4" gun. If you are getting in and out of a car, sitting down, etc it makes a difference depending on your rig, body type and method of carry.

I'd forgo the seecamp and highly recommend the Kahr.

I think you are making complete sense! Thanks

ajgranda
12-16-2012, 22:41
Well, you snooze you lose. Professional was sold today. Think I'm still going to try for the Falcon though. Let's see if I get this one. Also looking into the PM9. Thanks guys.

SpringerTGO
12-16-2012, 23:01
Actually, you have probably complained more about NHC than any other poster. :whistling: At least in this forum. I do feel that your experience was one of the exceptions. I also feel that NHC has improved quite a bit in the past year. I will say and agree with you and others that Wilson is the better company of the two and there have been more complaints regarding customer service with NHC than WC, but less than EB or LB. Based on reading several thousand posts in the last few years on several forums.

What's your point about my issues with Nighthawk? They sold me a gun that didn't perform properly and had to be repaired. They also called me a liar. They provided the worst customer service experience I have ever suffered.

Is it wrong for me to want to let others know not to make the same mistake I did, with their $3000???
And can anyone even argue about Wilson's customer service reputation compared to Nighthawk???

Dsully
12-17-2012, 03:52
Does WC magwell look like NHC? Thanks

The new one piece mag well on my CQB Elite looks like this

http://walkingheavy.com/cqb/4.jpg

Looks just as nice, if not better

http://walkingheavy.com/cqb/1.jpg
http://walkingheavy.com/cqb/2.jpg
http://walkingheavy.com/cqb/3.jpg
http://walkingheavy.com/cqb/5.jpg
http://walkingheavy.com/cqb/6.jpg

glock2740
12-17-2012, 07:21
Does WC magwell look like NHC?
No. Not at all. Wilson is making a new rounded butt magwell though.

Nighthawk's version
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/falcon-15.jpg


Wilson's version
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/WCroundbuttMW.jpg

bac1023
12-17-2012, 08:14
Well, you snooze you lose. Professional was sold today. Think I'm still going to try for the Falcon though. Let's see if I get this one. Also looking into the PM9. Thanks guys.

Good luck with the Falcon. :)

I think you'll love it.

Steel Head
12-17-2012, 09:33
No. Not at all. Wilson is making a new rounded butt magwell though.

Nighthawk's version
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/falcon-15.jpg


Wilson's version
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/WCroundbuttMW.jpg

The Wilson version is stunning:wow:

glock2740
12-17-2012, 09:57
I think they both look pretty good myself. It's about time we started seeing rounded butt magwell's. Makes alot of sense IMO.

ajgranda
12-17-2012, 10:01
delete

ajgranda
12-17-2012, 10:06
Disregard, I saw the pic posted by Steelhead, thanks. WC's may be fitted a little better than NH. Very nice indeed!

Oops, that was glock2740 that posted, thanks.

ajgranda
12-17-2012, 10:09
I think they both look pretty good myself. It's about time we started seeing rounded butt magwell's. Makes alot of sense IMO. Amen brother, now it's EB's turn.

38 Super Fan
12-17-2012, 10:33
Well, you snooze you lose. Professional was sold today. Think I'm still going to try for the Falcon though. Let's see if I get this one. Also looking into the PM9. Thanks guys.
That's a sharp Hawk, grab that sucker and report back to us. :cool:

ajgranda
12-17-2012, 18:59
What's your point about my issues with Nighthawk? They sold me a gun that didn't perform properly and had to be repaired. They also called me a liar. They provided the worst customer service experience I have ever suffered.

Is it wrong for me to want to let others know not to make the same mistake I did, with their $3000???
And can anyone even argue about Wilson's customer service reputation compared to Nighthawk???

I do believe that you had issues with your NHC and their CS, but that doesn't mean that most of their customers do. It just gets a little tiring to read your redundant comments every time a poster asks about Nighthawk, that's all. Hell, there is currently a 14 month wait for one if you order now. I'd say they are doing better now than ever. They also have more gunsmiths then ever before. So, they must be doing something right.:whistling:

ajgranda
12-17-2012, 19:04
That's a sharp Hawk, grab that sucker and report back to us. :cool:

Still in the process. I think I really would have preferred the Professional now. I may be able to talk the seller down some more, so it won't be as painful.:supergrin:

SpringerTGO
12-18-2012, 23:36
I do believe that you had issues with your NHC and their CS, but that doesn't mean that most of their customers do. It just gets a little tiring to read your redundant comments every time a poster asks about Nighthawk, that's all. Hell, there is currently a 14 month wait for one if you order now. I'd say they are doing better now than ever. They also have more gunsmiths then ever before. So, they must be doing something right.:whistling:

I'm really sorry. I guess when someone asks about Nighthawk I shouldn't respond. My experience is redundant. They sell a lot of 1911's, so the fact they treat their customers like dirt is redundant.
I got a lot of email from Nighthawk owners supporting me who were afraid to post because they made their "investment" but were afraid to post on other forums for fear of getting on the bad side of Nighthawk.

Out of respect for you, the next time someone asks about Nighthawk I won't post my actual experience with them, because you don't approve of my answer.

Is that better?

Would you like to help me out with any other freedom of speech problems I might be having?
How many times am I allowed to answer questions about Nighthawk before you deem it redundant?

I'll check in with you before I give an honest answer to an honest question, in case you don't approve.

deguelo
12-19-2012, 18:00
my nhc tII has been an exceptionally fine performer.... did i mention it's listed in the classifieds? :whistling: regards-- deguelo