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RussP
12-17-2012, 14:25
Preventing Another Sandy Hook (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=4cqllyfab&v=001PxvKDHU1N4qCpZOj2y6C7k8Ai9ToaXZAeGB4-v04vstetm5sJqQvTzn5lyCD9gyTpXxJL4v--8xRVhnSEQ0rOzY-gQ_cDzlAHRCTiYdZl3fCy8cDifDZ4IrjDTo2G7CaTrJjfXVVgpbnJWuAJCOIaTuSRaBUxvlJ8JW3qjzfU6c%3D)

Taken from Mrs. VR's Facebook post...

pipedreams
12-17-2012, 14:41
Preventing Another Sandy Hook (http://"http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=4cqllyfab&v=001PxvKDHU1N4qCpZOj2y6C7k8Ai9ToaXZAeGB4-v04vstetm5sJqQvTzn5lyCD9gyTpXxJL4v--8xRVhnSEQ0rOzY-gQ_cDzlAHRCTiYdZl3fCy8cDifDZ4IrjDTo2G7CaTrJjfXVVgpbnJWuAJCOIaTuSRaBUxvlJ8JW3qjzfU6c%3D)

Taken from Mrs. VR's Facebook post...
Firefox can't find the server at "http.


But while your at it here is a good read.
http://peterwaspacking.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/22-children-attacked/

Fear Night
12-17-2012, 14:41
Link is broken, here you go:
Preventing Another Sandy Hook (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=4cqllyfab&v=001PxvKDHU1N4qCpZOj2y6C7k8Ai9ToaXZAeGB4-v04vstetm5sJqQvTzn5lyCD9gyTpXxJL4v--8xRVhnSEQ0rOzY-gQ_cDzlAHRCTiYdZl3fCy8cDifDZ4IrjDTo2G7CaTrJjfXVVgpbnJWuAJCOIaTuSRaBUxvlJ8JW3qjzfU6c%3D)

RussP
12-17-2012, 16:05
Link is broken, here you go:
Preventing Another Sandy Hook (http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=4cqllyfab&v=001PxvKDHU1N4qCpZOj2y6C7k8Ai9ToaXZAeGB4-v04vstetm5sJqQvTzn5lyCD9gyTpXxJL4v--8xRVhnSEQ0rOzY-gQ_cDzlAHRCTiYdZl3fCy8cDifDZ4IrjDTo2G7CaTrJjfXVVgpbnJWuAJCOIaTuSRaBUxvlJ8JW3qjzfU6c%3D)Thanks...fixe d it.

Cavalry Doc
12-17-2012, 21:06
Layered physical security is the answer.

Cheap but hefty steal bars on classroom doors.

Fire doors rigged to lock with special code for area sequestration.

Controlled entrances to the school building. Entrances overwatched by armed security.

Fences around schools, controlled entrance, also overwatched by armed security able to disable vehicle with engine block strike. Could also act as anti-sniper teams.

There is no cookie cutter response, but there are some obvious capabilities that most will want to have, given the proper advice.

Gunnut 45/454
12-17-2012, 23:26
Naw selective arming of the faculty is a cheaper better option. Have atleast 4 per school! Depending on the size of the school. Since alot of the teachers are now ex military that shouldn't be a problem in finding very well qualified folks to do it! What better way to combat terroist acts then having well armed ex terrorist killers in schools!
Win win! We get rid of a gun free zone and protect the "CHILDREN" like libertards like to do! Cheaper then paying a cop to be in school.:supergrin:

Gunnut 45/454
12-17-2012, 23:32
Naw selective arming of the faculty is a cheaper better option. Have atleast 4 per school! Depending on the size of the school. Since alot of the teachers are now ex military that shouldn't be a problem in finding very well qualified folks to do it! What better way to combat terrorist acts then having well armed ex terrorist killers in schools!
Win win! We get rid of a gun free zone and protect the "CHILDREN" like libertards like to do! Cheaper then paying a cop to be in school.:supergrin:

holesinpaper
12-18-2012, 01:00
Fixing public school is the answer.

It damages some children who arrive at its doors healthy, and sure doesn't help many who arrive at its doors already damaged.

wprebeck
12-18-2012, 03:59
Fixing public school is the answer.

It damages some children who arrive at its doors healthy, and sure doesn't help many who arrive at its doors already damaged.

Holy ****! I agree.


Turning our schools into more secure environments than the jail at which I work is not the answer. A cultural shift back to established and absolute morals, along with better treatment and removal (if necessary) of mentally ill folks front the street would better serve society. You have no idea of how jails have become mental health treatment facilities, holding inmates until they're declared incompetent and released, only for them to reoffend very shortly.

Addressing family values and the mentally ill will work wonders. Ever wonder why the frequently of events like this was much less in the 50's and prior?

Of course, I'm all for allowing teachers to carry, if they wish, and for maintaining an SRO spot - but a fortress does not make a good school.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 07:21
There will always be an exception. No amount of effort will make every kid a good adult. You have to take steps to slow down or stop the mayhem once a person has taken action.

It's just simply time to realize that there will always be the occasional bad guy out there.

Skyhook
12-18-2012, 08:09
Layered physical security is the answer.

Cheap but hefty steal bars on classroom doors.

Fire doors rigged to lock with special code for area sequestration.

Controlled entrances to the school building. Entrances overwatched by armed security.

Fences around schools, controlled entrance, also overwatched by armed security able to disable vehicle with engine block strike. Could also act as anti-sniper teams.

There is no cookie cutter response, but there are some obvious capabilities that most will want to have, given the proper advice.

Not only would that render the schools less attractive to wackos, but one would think Obama & Co. would LEAP at the idea of putting so many more folks into a government job category. :eyebrow:

ALSO: What about safe-guarding the transit? The buses? How's that going to work?:dunno:

jeanderson
12-18-2012, 08:24
Naw selective arming of the faculty is a cheaper better option. Have atleast 4 per school! Depending on the size of the school. Since alot of the teachers are now ex military that shouldn't be a problem in finding very well qualified folks to do it! What better way to combat terrorist acts then having well armed ex terrorist killers in schools!
Win win! We get rid of a gun free zone and protect the "CHILDREN" like libertards like to do! Cheaper then paying a cop to be in school.:supergrin:
I agree! Not every teacher needs to carry but at least a few would be the best defense. You can't turn schools into fortresses with armed guards at every entrance.

holesinpaper
12-18-2012, 11:26
Screw allowing teachers to carry.

Allow PARENTS to carry.

Screw adding additional 'special' rights for gov employees. Instead give us back our Rights.

walt cowan
12-18-2012, 11:45
google ssir's. every mass shooter from stockman ca. to sandy hook was on ssir's. one in ten folks take ssir's. ban ssir's.

wingryder
12-18-2012, 12:44
google ssir's. every mass shooter from stockman ca. to sandy hook was on ssir's. one in ten folks take ssir's. ban ssir's.

Stanford Social Innovation Review? :dunno:

Perhaps you could just spell it out for us :whistling:

holesinpaper
12-18-2012, 12:53
Stanford Social Innovation Review? :dunno:

Perhaps you could just spell it out for us :whistling:

Selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors or serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitor

Mood altering drugs.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 13:15
google ssir's. every mass shooter from stockman ca. to sandy hook was on ssir's. one in ten folks take ssir's. ban ssir's.

There has been a lot if conflicting stuff out there, but the latest I've read said they cannot find that he was under any psych care, no meds, and they did not know if he had ever been formally diagnosed with any form of autism.

Skyhook
12-18-2012, 13:33
There has been a lot if conflicting stuff out there, but the latest I've read said they cannot find that he was under any psych care, no meds, and they did not know if he had ever been formally diagnosed with any form of autism.

So, what are we left with?

The guy had a ****ty family life? His condition was genetic? BTW, I haven't heard a blasted thing about his role-model-daddy..
:eyebrow:

RussP
12-18-2012, 13:45
Fixing public school is the answer.

It damages some children who arrive at its doors healthy, and sure doesn't help many who arrive at its doors already damaged.I agree completely.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 16:50
Not only would that render the schools less attractive to wackos, but one would think Obama & Co. would LEAP at the idea of putting so many more folks into a government job category. :eyebrow:

ALSO: What about safe-guarding the transit? The buses? How's that going to work?:dunno:

Something to think about. http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs12/i/2006/267/1/0/_thinking__by_Smidy.gif

Maybe an aggressive "neighborhood watch" at the bus stops, and hardened buses. Probably don't need MRAP school buses, but bullet resistant glass and kevlar spall inserts would help. Runflat tires. Maybe even look at armed bus drivers, after a thorough psych eval and some training. Anything is possible.

Spall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spall) is the pieces of metal knocked off the interior of armor from an external ballistic strike. They become secondary missiles even when a projectile does not penetrate armor.


My youngest is a senior in HS this year.
I'd still gladly vote yes on a bond to increase physical security at our schools. You cannot cover everywhere, but after this, we should do our best. If we don't, we are to blame for not trying to prevent the next massacre of innocent children. Humans are hard wired to rabidly protect our young, even to unreasonable and irrational levels. Personally, I'm for giving parents the ability to do that.

That may be upstream for the mainstream, but I have stuff that will only be used to defend my children, not harm the children of others.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 16:59
So, what are we left with?

The guy had a ****ty family life? His condition was genetic? BTW, I haven't heard a blasted thing about his role-model-daddy..
:eyebrow:

What do you do? Prepare for the effed up miscreant that was not seen on the radar to arrive at your child's school with an AR 15. Better yet, prepare for the committed jihadist with the same weapon to show up at your child's school.


The sad fact is that we are in an all out battle with the mentally deranged and the jihadists (same thing in my book).

Gun control is not about guns. It's about control. It cannot work, as evidenced by Australia, Great Britain, Ottoman turkey, Soviet Union, etc etc etc etc.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

Check out history. It's scary.

Skyhook
12-18-2012, 17:02
What do you do? Prepare for the effed up miscreant that was not seen on the radar to arrive at your child's school with an AR 15. Better yet, prepare for the committed jihadist with the same weapon to show up at your child's school.


The sad fact is that we are in an all out battle with the mentally deranged and the jihadists (same thing in my book).

Gun control is not about guns. It's about control. It cannot work, as evidenced by Australia, Great Britain, Ottoman turkey, Soviet Union, etc etc etc etc.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

Check out history. It's scary.

We're speaking of two aspects of the same problem.. both of which need serious attention.
We are not in disagreement....

Skyhook
12-18-2012, 17:07
Something to think about. http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs12/i/2006/267/1/0/_thinking__by_Smidy.gif

Maybe an aggressive "neighborhood watch" at the bus stops, and hardened buses. Probably don't need MRAP school buses, but bullet resistant glass and kevlar spall inserts would help. Runflat tires. Maybe even look at armed bus drivers, after a thorough psych eval and some training. Anything is possible.

Spall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spall) is the pieces of metal knocked off the interior of armor from an external ballistic strike. They become secondary missiles even when a projectile does not penetrate armor.


My youngest is a senior in HS this year.
I'd still gladly vote yes on a bond to increase physical security at our schools. You cannot cover everywhere, but after this, we should do our best. If we don't, we are to blame for not trying to prevent the next massacre of innocent children. Humans are hard wired to rabidly protect our young, even to unreasonable and irrational levels. Personally, I'm for giving parents the ability to do that.

That may be upstream for the mainstream, but I have stuff that will only be used to defend my children, not harm the children of others.

C.Doc has the on-site security fairly in hand, but as to buses-- OMG, it takes a special public hearing and vote to buy a couple of those expensive things now, what on earth would a 'hardened' version run? Who could afford it?

My freaking property taxes are astronomical at present--:ack:

...and my kids do not even go to this school!

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 17:10
We're speaking of two aspects of the same problem.. both of which need serious attention.
We are not in disagreement....

Color me as an anti-freedom statist if you want......


But if three trained and credentialed professionals declare someone a danger to innocents at large, they should be sequestered in some way, until cleared.

I'm sure that any parent of a child killed in Sandy Hook would agree with me.

Common sense should be common. It's a shame that it is not.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 17:15
C.Doc has the on-site security fairly in hand, but as to buses-- OMG, it takes a special public hearing and vote to buy a couple of those expensive things now, what on earth would a 'hardened' version run? Who could afford it?

My freaking property taxes are astronomical at present--:ack:

...and my kids do not even go to this school!

Spall guards, basically bomb blankets, or Kevlar blankets are not all that expensive.


It's la carte, pick and choose what you want on the local, level.

Skyhook
12-18-2012, 17:19
Color me as an anti-freedom statist if you want......


But if three trained and credentialed professionals declare someone a danger to innocents at large, they should be sequestered in some way, until cleared.

I'm sure that any parent of a child killed in Sandy Hook would agree with me.

Common sense should be common. It's a shame that it is not.


I am almost- almost- in total agreement.
Yes, what you mention is sorely needed if we are to contain our most dangerous and feral subjects, but think on the historical abuse of 'insane asylums' and 're-education camps'.
Anything of those sorts of things has to be very carefully administered, monitored, etc., so as to prohibit an evil government from abusing the citizenry.

This government (DC) I'd not trust with my nastiest cat.

madbaumer
12-18-2012, 17:24
Its time to take the safety and security of each of us and our children away from the politicians and along with the schools.

Their failed policies of the last 40-50 years have done nothing more but place each of us in danger with their "Free Zone" this and "Ban" that for the "Good of the Children" drivel they spew.

Time for all of us to expose any and all of this and TAKE IT ALL BACK!

Skyhook
12-18-2012, 18:01
Its time to take the safety and security of each of us and our children away from the politicians and along with the schools.

Their failed policies of the last 40-50 years have done nothing more but place each of us in danger with their "Free Zone" this and "Ban" that for the "Good of the Children" drivel they spew.

Time for all of us to expose any and all of this and TAKE IT ALL BACK!

Preach it brother!

I am with you 100% on that 'take back'.
Maybe parents will be able to discipline their children when necessary without fearing of court appearances and forced locked-step relativism.

Ruble Noon
12-18-2012, 18:08
Layered physical security is the answer.

Cheap but hefty steal bars on classroom doors.

Fire doors rigged to lock with special code for area sequestration.

Controlled entrances to the school building. Entrances overwatched by armed security.

Fences around schools, controlled entrance, also overwatched by armed security able to disable vehicle with engine block strike. Could also act as anti-sniper teams.

There is no cookie cutter response, but there are some obvious capabilities that most will want to have, given the proper advice.

Yeah, I don't think we need sniper teams. Controlled entrances would be a great start though. I drove through 4 school zones today as children were making their way to school and at each one there was a cop running radar to catch speeders. Maybe instead of worrying so much about speeders in school zones where no kids walk to school, we position these cops at the ONE entrance that allows admittance to the school.

TBO
12-18-2012, 18:10
Do kids travel by vehicle through that area?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

Ruble Noon
12-18-2012, 18:16
Do kids travel by vehicle through that area?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

I assume you are addressing me? If so, no. Elementary and middle schools our high schools already have SRO's.

marchboom
12-18-2012, 18:27
Arm the people who are already at the school. If some teachers don't like it, that's their choice...they will be victims. But the teachers have an obligation to protect their students. If any teacher wants to carry they should not be denied that right (providing they can pass the CCW background check).

Bad guys will find ways to get into certain areas. It then becomes our job to stop them in a very final way. And it won't be possible to stop the bad guys with guns if the public is not armed.

There is just no other way.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 19:25
Yeah, I don't think we need sniper teams. Controlled entrances would be a great start though. I drove through 4 school zones today as children were making their way to school and at each one there was a cop running radar to catch speeders. Maybe instead of worrying so much about speeders in school zones where no kids walk to school, we position these cops at the ONE entrance that allows admittance to the school.

No one plan fits for every location. Look at all the options, then pick and choose those that fit for the location.

http://wetserver.net/ams/images/accessories/SECURITY_DOR_BAR.jpg



Some are cheap.

NMPOPS
12-18-2012, 20:40
Gotta agree with most of what's been said. There are other options than gun control. We need to enforce the laws we already have have better reporting of the mentally ill and get rid of Gun Free (Kill) Zones! I think we all should read up on the Bath, Michigan killing in May 1927 also. Gun control freaks ignore this one because no guns were involved yet 45 people (38 children) were murdered.

TBO
12-19-2012, 15:15
I assume you are addressing me? If so, no. Elementary and middle schools our high schools already have SRO's.

In the area you see squads working traffic during the time kids are on the way to school:

Are school kids traveling through the same area in motor vehicles?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

Ruble Noon
12-19-2012, 16:57
In the area you see squads working traffic during the time kids are on the way to school:

Are school kids traveling through the same area in motor vehicles?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

School buses, but they aren't driving them.

TBO
12-20-2012, 15:14
By enforcing traffic laws and having enhanced presence in the school areas they are no doubt contributing to accident/injury prevention.

Is a child more likely to be shot at school or involved in a motor vehicle accident?

Electrikkoolaid
12-20-2012, 16:42
Locking steel doors in classrooms with a special buzzer (or alert tone) that puts the school on lock down would be one way to lower the body count in these incidents.

There is no way to stop them.

You can just as easily stage a mass shooting while the kids are getting on school buses after school or during a sporting event if you harden the inside of the school.

Most schools are barely able to afford toilet paper these days, and parents are having to fundraise constantly for even basic operating supplies.

The idea of armed guards and enhanced perimeter security times 98,817 (http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/number-us-public-schools.html) public schools just seems financially impossible to me.

The CYA mentality of most public school officials, fueled by lawyers on the prowl, makes it unlikely "CCW teachers" will ever come to play either.

Considering a teacher can be excoriated for friending a kid on Facebook, I doubt the administrative weenie-waxers will allow lethal force as an option for staff they often hold in suspicion (if not outright contempt.)

My father's 1966 senior yearbook has a picture of him holding a trophy he won on the school shooting team. Times have surely changed.