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sum-dum-guy
12-17-2012, 17:24
Do you think the United States will ever really be a UNITED states again?

Or is the solution a peaceful separation? The divide seems so deep and the politics are so divisive, it seems insurmountable. It is no longer even logical and rational. The believers on both sides are often true believers, too, unable or unwilling to see the opposing side's argument.

Liberals and conservatives see things so differently, it is like they are from different planets and speak different languages. Finding common ground seems less and less likely. In fact, most people on both sides are digging in their heels more and more.

So what will be the conclusion from all this? Sometimes I think the only way to unite again is for there to be a common enemy, like in the aftermath of 9/11. But God save us from such a thing, I pray.

PaulMason
12-17-2012, 17:47
Ask the question from a different point of view - what is the purpose of the states?

If all the state government's responsibilities were handled by the Federal Government - would anyone notice?

Ruble Noon
12-17-2012, 17:55
Do you think the United States will ever really be a UNITED states again?

Or is the solution a peaceful separation? The divide seems so deep and the politics are so divisive, it seems insurmountable. It is no longer even logical and rational. The believers on both sides are often true believers, too, unable or unwilling to see the opposing side's argument.

Liberals and conservatives see things so differently, it is like they are from different planets and speak different languages. Finding common ground seems less and less likely. In fact, most people on both sides are digging in their heels more and more.

So what will be the conclusion from all this? Sometimes I think the only way to unite again is for there to be a common enemy, like in the aftermath of 9/11. But God save us from such a thing, I pray.

Flip a coin and split it along the Mississippi River, dumb assed liberals, progressives and statists on one side and the rest of us on the other.

philipk
12-17-2012, 18:10
It was tried once and didn't work.

Look at the Liberal enclaves.

States
MA with Boston
CT with Hartford
NY with NYC
RI with Providence
WA with Seattle

Then add the Liberal cities with Conservative states.
DC
Richmond
Atlanta
West Palm Beach
Miami
Tampa
New Orleans
Austin
Santa Fe
Denver
Chicago
Cleveland
Milwaukee
Minneapolis
San Diago
LA
San Francisco
and my others.

What is left? Where are the conservatives going to get their capital? Where is the industry?

Just like from "Gone with the Wind"

CHARLES: What do you mean, sir?

RHETT: I mean, Mr. Hamilton, there's not a cannon factory in the whole South.

MAN: What difference does that make, sir, to a gentleman?

RHETT: I'm afraid it's going to make a great deal of difference to a

great many gentlemen, sir.

CHARLES: Are you hinting, Mr. Butler,

that the Yankees can lick us?

RHETT: No, I'm not hinting. I'm saying very plainly that the Yankees

are better equipped than we. They've got

factories, shipyards, coalmines... and a fleet to bottle up

our harbors and starve us to death. All we've got is cotton,

and slaves and ...arrogance.

jeanderson
12-17-2012, 18:17
No question that this nation is more divided than ever. Doubt we'd ever literally split. The only notable geographical split I see is between the cities (liberal) and rural areas (conservative).

BobbyS
12-17-2012, 18:21
Down the road we may need a new flag. One with a big red star on it.

rj1939
12-17-2012, 18:37
Liberals don't last long once the easy money runs out. They either become conservative or a casualty.

barbedwiresmile
12-17-2012, 19:02
We were once "These United States". "The" United States, post-1860's, leaves no real purpose for state's. We don't really have state's, we have Federal Administrative Districts. And we don't have governors, we have Gauleiters.

sum-dum-guy
12-17-2012, 19:26
I honestly wonder if there are people on both sides that would be happier if there were an amicable split. Until the liberal portion collapses when they run out of people to tax and they realize money does not grow on trees

It would be like a Grand Experiment...which side will prosper?

barbedwiresmile
12-17-2012, 19:29
Side note: f'ing autocorrect for all my apostrophes above...
( ie: "state's" )

janice6
12-17-2012, 19:30
Years ago a popular figure stated how easy it is to change two letters and make this the Untied States. We should be careful.

MoCop
12-17-2012, 19:43
In my opinion, we are a divided nation and it will only get worse with the leadership we have at the helm. That is what our current administration wants. To divide us is to conquer us. And they are dividing us each time something "huge" like this tragedy in Ct happens. They use their media to force their diatribe down our throats and play on the emotions of the ignorant while cloaking their true agendas as being "for the common good" or "for the children" and the sheeple (and yes there are sadly more of them these days then us) will take whatever the big brother government doles out because the sheep sold their souls for free things long ago and while doing so, forgot how to fend for themselves. Sounds like a Glenn Beck conspiracy, I know, but we are being divided and God help this Country.

sum-dum-guy
12-17-2012, 19:45
In my opinion, we are a divided nation and it will only get worse with the leadership we have at the helm. That is what our current administration wants. To divide us is to conquer us. And they are dividing us each time something "huge" like this tragedy in Ct happens. They use their media to force their diatribe down our throats and play on the emotions of the ignorant while cloaking their true agendas as being "for the common good" or "for the children" and the sheeple (and yes there are sadly more of them these days then us) will take whatever the big brother government doles out because the sheep sold their souls for free things long ago and while doing so, forgot how to fend for themselves. Sounds like a Glenn Beck conspiracy, I know, but we are being divided and God help this Country.


This is what I fear.

I think this is what they want. Divided we fall...

Kablam
12-17-2012, 19:48
"Gauleiters" I had to look that one up. Learned something. Thanks BWS. :wavey:

PaulMason
12-17-2012, 20:06
We were once "These United States". "The" United States, post-1860's, leaves no real purpose for state's. We don't really have state's, we have Federal Administrative Districts. And we don't have governors, we have Gauleiters.

Correct answer!

rj1939
12-17-2012, 20:14
It has been said that the Civil War settled the states rights issue...............it only forcibly ended the debate...........the issue has still not been settled for anybody that can read.

Chronos
12-17-2012, 22:31
It would obviously be in the best interest for various peoples to "opt out" of the slow-motion train wreck that is 21st century US politics. However, politicians crave greater and greater power (people to rule and dollars to spend), and this is the only real glue keeping the union together at present. At some point that glue will become insufficient, but we're not there yet.

WT
12-18-2012, 15:24
Did anyone stop to think that maybe 'top management' is deliberately trying to break up the country into small, weak duchies?

I think many states would not be able to survive without their federal government handouts taken from other, wealthier states.

sum-dum-guy
12-18-2012, 16:36
you mean like this? These states have more people on unemployment than working.

WT
12-18-2012, 20:29
No.

I mean states that pay less federal taxes than they get in federal money.

The worst off states are Montana, North Dakota, Maine, West Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama, and New Mexico.

I think Virginia might go down if they shut the massive military structure around Norfolk and lost all that federal money needed to keep it going. (Is the State of New York going to order an aircraft carrier from VA?) S.C. is probably in the same 'boat'.

Tennessee and Kentucky will probably revert back to dirt 'interstate highways'.

Heck, the Mexican Army will occupy half of Texas within 2 weeks of a breakup.

Well, you get my drift.

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 00:22
We were once "These United States". "The" United States, post-1860's, leaves no real purpose for state's. We don't really have state's, we have Federal Administrative Districts. And we don't have governors, we have Gauleiters.

Bravo!

Repeal the 17th Amendment.

stevelyn
12-19-2012, 05:47
I'll be more than happy at this point to live in the Alaska Autonomous region.

Glock30Eric
12-19-2012, 06:51
Bravo!

Repeal the 17th Amendment.

Yeah!

WT
12-19-2012, 10:34
Well, Alaska is another one of those states that sucks on the government teat. It pays less in taxes than it gets from D.C.

It's not able to stand on its own two feet.

If Alaska does go off on its own it might be wise to learn Chinese. When the People's Liberation Army shows up to take over the oil fields that China desperately needs, it might be useful to learn the words "I surrender!"

Of course, the PLA could line up all the white people and just shoot them.

ditto1958
12-19-2012, 10:46
Ask the question from a different point of view - what is the purpose of the states?

If all the state government's responsibilities were handled by the Federal Government - would anyone notice?

Depends on where you live. Back in the Midwest, where I used to live? Not so much. Here in Louisiana, and most of the South for that matter, yes, definitely. States rights are alive and well here.

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 10:51
Well, Alaska is another one of those states that sucks on the government teat. It pays less in taxes than it gets from D.C.

It's not able to stand on its own two feet.

If Alaska does go off on its own it might be wise to learn Chinese. When the People's Liberation Army shows up to take over the oil fields that China desperately needs, it might be useful to learn the words "I surrender!"

Of course, the PLA could line up all the white people and just shoot them.

Get the fed's hands off of ANWR and check again.

JohnH
12-19-2012, 11:09
Well, Alaska is another one of those states that sucks on the government teat. It pays less in taxes than it gets from D.C.

It's not able to stand on its own two feet.

Alaska sucks on a government teat because the federal government owns and administers most of the land. We all know how efficient the government is when it comes to administration.:wavey:

series1811
12-19-2012, 12:11
Alaska sucks on a government teat because the federal government owns and administers most of the land. We all know how efficient the government is when it comes to administration.:wavey:

Well, you would think liberals would be really excited about getting rid of all of these states, with people who don't want to be part of the union any longer.

But, they are not, are they?

We know why.

pugman
12-19-2012, 12:24
Ironically, as long as there is a federal government no.

Edit: I should say federal government in its current form

dbcooper
12-19-2012, 12:33
It was tried once and didn't work.

Look at the Liberal enclaves.

States
MA with Boston
CT with Hartford
NY with NYC
RI with Providence
WA with Seattle

Then add the Liberal cities with Conservative states.
DC
Richmond
Atlanta
West Palm Beach
Miami
Tampa
New Orleans
Austin
Santa Fe
Denver
Chicago
Cleveland
Milwaukee
Minneapolis
San Diago
LA
San Francisco
and my others.

What is left? Where are the conservatives going to get their capital? Where is the industry?

Just like from "Gone with the Wind"

Where would the left get their food? It's grown in the fly over states, and they sure as hell can't go out and kill thier own. No beef for their BigMac's, the left has no use for cattle country

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 12:51
Where would the left get their food? It's grown in the fly over states, and they sure as hell can't go out and kill thier own. No beef for their BigMac's, the left has no use for cattle country

Or oil?

WT
12-19-2012, 14:31
Our local refineries get their crude oil from Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.

Our beef comes from Argentina.

My pistol came from Austria.

And so on ...

Have you guys not heard of international trade?

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 14:37
Our local refineries get their crude oil from Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.

Our beef comes from Argentina.

And so on ...

Have you guys not heard of international trade?

Yes, because relying on 3rd world nutpies for fuel has worked out so well.

fx77
12-19-2012, 14:38
Finally I understand the concept of secession

pugman
12-19-2012, 15:33
Finally I understand the concept of secession

If you understand this...then you understand the next step is a civil war. No state will pull this...if they grew the balls to do it...I guarantee O won't let it happen.

I've given this a lot of thought-my home state of Wisconsin we are screwed being basically landlocked; but places like California or Texas..well given the right set of circumstances leaving uncle sam might not be such a bad idea