Let Teachers Carry Arms, Ban Gun-Free Zones to Halt Mass Shootings [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruble Noon
12-17-2012, 18:38
Banning gun-free zones and allowing teachers to carry concealed weapons could help eliminate mass shootings at schools, John R. Lott, one of the nation's leading gun experts, tells Newsmax in an exclusive interview Saturday.

Lott, an author and college professor, told Newsmax that gun-free zones become “a magnet” for deranged killers who hope to burn their names into the history books by running up a big body count.

Lott’s landmark book "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws" is in its 3rd edition. He told Newsmax there is a “very good chance” the Connecticut school shooting could have been averted, if teachers there were permitted to carry concealed handguns.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Lott-guns-Connecticut-shooting/2012/12/15/id/467903?s=al&promo_code=111C9-1

happyguy
12-17-2012, 18:42
I saw him on CNN this morning. He is a smart guy but like a lot of academics he sometimes has difficulty when debating. Soledad O'Brien proved again that she is a tool during that discussion. She was all emotion and brought no substance to the table and even so, Lott had a hard time.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

Ruble Noon
12-17-2012, 18:44
I saw him on CNN this morning. He is a smart guy but like a lot of academics he sometimes has difficulty when debating. Soledad O'Brien proved again that she is a tool during that discussion. She was all emotion and brought no substance to the table and even so, Lott had a hard time.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

Watching CNN will rot your brain.

beforeobamabans
12-17-2012, 18:46
While this is common sense and gets to the root of the problem (better security at the site), it has already been rejected out of hand by every single person on the left I've seen in three days of discussion. It's a "non-starter". Since they're in the driver's seat on this, it ain't gonna happen. That's why I've already jumped to professional armed security funded by conservatives agreeing to higher property taxes.

Selling this tact dodges the whole gun control issue.

smokin762
12-17-2012, 18:48
I agree with allowing teachers to conceal carry while in school.

callihan_44
12-17-2012, 18:51
amazing today we need armed guards in school.

happyguy
12-17-2012, 18:55
Watching CNN will rot your brain.

Hmmm, I guess that explains a lot. CNN and Bourbon...
Bad genetics is probably in play as well.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

ojabog
12-17-2012, 18:58
Put a donut shop in the lobby of each school and the cops will be there 24/7.

beforeobamabans
12-17-2012, 18:59
amazing today we need armed guards in school.

Not really. When the state forces me to deliver my child to their instruction and care, they assume responsibility for their security. What occurred in Newtown was a total failure (and negligence) of the state's responsibility to protect those children. It was their responsibility to do whatever they thought necessary based on their local conditions. They have been proven negligent and should be sued to high heavens by every surviving relative. That would result in the best lesson of all. After the state coughs up millions for their negligence, you will see armed guards in every school.

countrygun
12-17-2012, 19:06
amazing today we need armed guards in school.

Why?

In our State schools that have "special" students have to have staff members who are certified in physical intervention techniques that include taking the student to the ground and controlling them with minimum chance of injury. They do this to protect the student, the other students and staff and themselves.

To me it is surprising that we take precautions with special training, including physical contact, to keep a kid from getting headbutted, but we don't have anyone trained to prevent a student getting shot

Butcher
12-17-2012, 19:09
Put a *free* donut shop in the lobby of each school and the cops will be there 24/7.

Fixed it for ya


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jeanderson
12-17-2012, 19:11
Fight fire with fire. This is the only effective solution.

Magelk
12-17-2012, 19:21
amazing today we need armed guards in school.

Even more amazing is that we'll put armed guards on a stack of gold, but have a **** fit if someone suggests guarding our children from a psychopath.

Magelk
12-17-2012, 19:23
Fight fire with fire. This is the only effective solution.

Thats what I say. Actually what I say is, "When a killer comes for your kids, would you rather have Sarah Brady there? Or Ted Nugent?"

G19G20
12-17-2012, 19:28
Some crazy guy named Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal Gun Free Zone laws way back in 2011. So glad he didn't become President or anything important like that. /sarcasm

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/9524-ron-paul-introduced-pro-gun-legislation


Texas Congressman and GOP presidential hopeful Ron Paul continues to champion constitutional rights. His latest endeavor is a bill (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/paul-introduces-bill-abolish-gun-free-zo)that would abolish “gun-free zones,” ultimately permitting teachers to carry firearms on school grounds. Predictably, anti-gun groups are calling the legislation “extremist.”
CNS News reports, “H.R. 2613, the Citizens Protection Act of 2011, would repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 and remove all federally created criminal safety zones.”

IvanVic
12-17-2012, 19:28
I agree with allowing teachers to conceal carry while in school.

How many teachers would actually do this if they were allowed? .0000001%

We need armed security in plain clothes.


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countrygun
12-17-2012, 19:29
Some crazy guy named Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal Gun Free Zone laws way back in 2011. So glad he didn't become President or anything important like that. /sarcasm

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/9524-ron-paul-introduced-pro-gun-legislation





Blow it out your *** you drooling sycophant.

G19G20
12-17-2012, 19:32
Blow it out your *** you drooling sycophant.

Wow, you're still here? I guess I give you kudos for sticking around so long even though you're always wrong about everything (sorta like the anti-gun lobby).

countrygun
12-17-2012, 19:58
Wow, you're still here? I guess I give you kudos for sticking around so long even though you're always wrong about everything (sorta like the anti-gun lobby).

OK, Ill go again



This is a perfect example of why YOU turned more people away from Ron Paul than you ever attracted.

While I thank you for any damage you may have done to the campaign of the of that demented gremlin but you're interjecting him into every thread is surely a sign of an unstable fixation.

This is not the time or place for you to blow the trumpet of some one who got....how many electoral college votes was it?

Now go to your room and stare at the Ron Paul poster above your bed.

Cavalry Doc
12-17-2012, 20:14
Some crazy guy named Ron Paul introduced legislation to repeal Gun Free Zone laws way back in 2011. So glad he didn't become President or anything important like that. /sarcasm

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/9524-ron-paul-introduced-pro-gun-legislation






Yeah he was crazy. Just look at how many bills he got passed in his long and mediocre career while sucking millions out of the treasury and later, the college kid crowd.

He certainly turned proposing somewhat popular but futile causes into a wealth builder for him, his family and friends.



But really. Arming teachers is only one layer among many that would be needed to prevent this sort of tragedy again.

1. Simple steel door bars that would lock classroom doors from the inside.

2. Armed guards, dedicated, trained in hostage rescue, negotiation, CQB and layered physical security.

3. Layered physical security.

DOC44
12-17-2012, 20:31
How many teachers would actually do this if they were allowed? .0000001%

We need armed security in plain clothes.


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Was in education since the late 60's... knew several principals during the 70's and 80's that had a handgun in their desk..... not to mention what was in their truck in the parking lot.:whistling:

Doc44

Ruble Noon
12-17-2012, 20:55
OK, Ill go again



This is a perfect example of why YOU turned more people away from Ron Paul than you ever attracted.

While I thank you for any damage you may have done to the campaign of the of that demented gremlin but you're interjecting him into every thread is surely a sign of an unstable fixation.

This is not the time or place for you to blow the trumpet of some one who got....how many electoral college votes was it?

Now go to your room and stare at the Ron Paul poster above your bed.

Well actually, he mentioned that Paul had proposed legislation to ban gun free zones and then it was you that got all bent out of shape.

countrygun
12-17-2012, 21:08
Well actually, he mentioned that Paul had proposed legislation to ban gun free zones and then it was you that got all bent out of shape.

It goes on the "so what?" pile along with all his other fanboy posts about a gremlin that managed to get exactly one piece of legislation passed, to sell an empty building, in his career on the Hill. He made a career out of accomplishing squat and couldn't even carry his own District in the primary.

Hell, Monika Lewinsky probably had more impact on this Country than Ron Paul.

IvanVic
12-17-2012, 21:14
Was in education since the late 60's... knew several principals during the 70's and 80's that had a handgun in their desk..... not to mention what was in their truck in the parking lot.:whistling:

Doc44

Well, that was 40 years ago. Your average teacher isn't going to carry a gun in the classroom.


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ChuteTheMall
12-17-2012, 21:17
.

Hell, Monika Lewinsky probably had more impact on this Country than Ron Paul.

That's a little harsh.

Ron Paul does deserve some credit for destroying the Libertarian movement forever, leaving it's crumbling remains in the hands of impotent fools.

We need competent, sane politicians to abolish gun free zones; the same non-libtard politicians all of the country who fought for decades to give us increased opportunities for legal concealed carry.

Cavalry Doc
12-17-2012, 21:17
Well, that was 40 years ago. Your average teacher isn't going to carry a gun in the classroom.


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Not the average one. But for the ones that are willing, and capable, I'd let them. But that would be between three and five of the proposals that I believe would stop mass violence at schools.

DOC44
12-17-2012, 21:27
Well, that was 40 years ago. Your average teacher isn't going to carry a gun in the classroom.


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Average teachers today are quite different from the average teacher 40 years ago.

We rang the bells at our schools and sent the paper work to the state department.


Doc44

ModGlock17
12-17-2012, 22:34
I agree with allowing teachers to conceal carry while in school.

I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOL

GRIMLET
12-17-2012, 22:41
Was in education since the late 60's... knew several principals during the 70's and 80's that had a handgun in their desk..... not to mention what was in their truck in the parking lot.:whistling:

Doc44

This guy!!!!




A principal and his gun

by Wayne Laugesen



Vice Principal Joel Myrick held his Colt .45 point blank to the high school boy's head. Last week, he told me what it was like. "I said 'why are you shooting my kids?' He said it was because nobody liked him and everything seemed hopeless," Myrick said. "Then I asked him his name. He said 'you know me, Mr. Myrick. Remember? I gave you a discount on your pizza delivery last week."

The shooter was Luke Woodham. On that day in 1997, Woodham slit his mother's throat then grabbed a .30-30 lever action deer rifle. He packed the pockets of his trench coat with ammo and headed off to Pearl High School, in Pearl, Miss.

The moment Myrick heard shots, he ran to his truck. He unlocked the door, removed his gun from its case, removed a round of bullets from another case, loaded the gun and went looking for the killer. "I've always kept a gun in the truck just in case something like this ever happened," said Myrick, who has since become Principal of Corinth High School, Corinth, Miss.

Woodham knew cops would arrive before too long, so he was all business, no play. No talk of Jesus, just shooting and reloading, shooting and reloading. He shot until he heard sirens, and then ran to his car. His plan, authorities subsequently learned, was to drive to nearby Pearl Junior High School and shoot more kids before police could show up.

But Myrick foiled that plan. He saw the killer fleeing the campus and positioned himself to point a gun at the windshield. Woodham, seeing the gun pointed at his head, crashed the car. Myrick approached the killer and confronted him. "Here was this monster killing kids in my school, and the minute I put a gun to his head he was a kid again," Myrick said.
True humanitarian

I've been intrigued by Myrick ever since that day. Most have never heard his name, because the mainstream press barely reported how the massacre was stopped. I've become more interested in Myrick's story with every subsequent mass murder. If only someone like Myrick had been at Columbine, I've pondered.

A few months ago, Soldier of Fortune Publisher Bob Brown asked me if I had any suggestions as to whom should receive his magazine's Humanitarian Award of 1999. In the wake of Columbine, the answer seemed clear: Joel Myrick. Brown talked it over with his staff, gave it some thought and went with my choice. Brown and I will present Myrick with his award Friday in Las Vegas, at the annual Soldier of Fortune Convention and Expo.

Myrick and his gun, no matter how one looks at it, saved lives. His actions saved the lives of waiting victims at a nearby junior high. He may have kept Woodham from shooting police, who would have arrived at the scene disoriented, without Myrick's home turf frame of reference. Arguably, Myrick and his gun even saved the life of the killer, who likely would have killed himself or been shot by SWAT cops after spilling more blood.

Although Myrick saved lives, beyond question, some treat him as a leper. After the shootings, and the relatively peaceful ending to something that could have made Columbine pale in comparison, Myrick was in exile. He'd held a gun to a student's head, and his colleagues simply couldn't accept that.

"Nobody wanted to dog me, but nobody wanted to side with me, either," Myrick says. "I felt like I was being betrayed by everybody."

And that was Mississippi. This summer he studied at Harvard, where he'd been awarded a prestigious education fellowship. That's when uppity intolerance and mass stupidity took on new meaning for Myrick. "Once people found out my story, I got a lot of dirty looks and strange stares," Myrick said. "A few people confronted me."

Myrick shouldn't feel bad. Only goofy losers gave Myrick funny looks, and such people never learn. Myrick's gun, and his ability and willingness to use it, saved lives plain and simple. Yet somehow, in the minds of the anti-intellectual gun control crowd, he's a bad man who did an immoral deed.

By any sane, rational view, Myrick is a life-saving humanitarian. Even in my view, however, his heroic act will be marred by an asterisk in the annals of history. Despite the presence of this brave man, two students still died. Therefore, the footnote of far off history books will read something like this:

*The late 20th Century was an era of crude polemics, in which some people believed hardware items, such as handguns, caused mass murders.
Therefore, ineffective laws that reflected this view made it illegal for this legendary hero to have his gun on campus. The gun was in a truck, giving the killer valuable time as Myrick ran to retrieve it. In modern society, of course, responsible adults have better access to hardware than killers do.

Arguing with a moron

Myrick is as much of a hero as the law would allow. He was only seconds away from the shootings, yet the law had him far away from his gun. Federal law precludes anyone but a cop from having a weapon in or near a school. The modern spree of school shootings began sometime shortly after this law was enacted. In most places, state and local laws needlessly duplicate the federal law, serving only to accommodate political grandstanding.

In Pearl, federal, state and local laws helped Luke Woodham shoot nine students. The deer rifle had to be reloaded after every shot. To hit nine students, Woodham needed time. The moments it took Myrick to reach his gun are what allowed Woodham to continue shooting and almost escape. Gun laws, and nothing else, gave Woodham that time.

But talking to gun control advocates is like talking to five year-olds. Tell a five-year-old it's time for bed, and he'll say "No." Ask why not, and he'll say "because." Likewise, I've told a few gun control advocates about Myrick-telling them how he would have saved more kids had it not been for gun laws-and they've said "guns kill." Or, "we have too many guns." Or, "Woodham killed his victims with a gun."

At which point I say, "Woodham violated several gun laws by having his gun on campus. The law did nothing to deter him, but plenty to deter the man who set out to stop the killings." To which a gun controller replied: "But guns kill."

Sucked in and trapped by this bizarre logic, I attempted to address it. I said: "But Joel Myrick's gun didn't kill. Rather, it allowed children, including the deranged killer, to live."

"Yeah, but all of these school shootings are done by guns," he told me.

So I pounded my head against a wall. Politics and sociology are complex. But if any socio-political issue should be a simple, exact science, it's gun control. All honest modern studies show that gun control, in this culture, benefits criminals while leaving law-abiding victims defenseless.

In his book More Guns Less Crime, Yale law professor John Lott ran the numbers every which way possible. He set out to write a book about guns being bad, and found that every gun law ever enacted in this country has resulted in more violent crime. I saw him on TV recently, debating a gun control advocate. Lott cited numbers and anecdotes. His opponent, in essence, said "but guns kill."
Politics of nothing

Right here in Boulder, a city of self-proclaimed enlightenment, city council members are hard at it trying to enact more gun control in the light of Columbine. Weird. Today in Boulder, it is absolutely illegal in every way, shape and form for a student to walk onto, or anywhere near a public school with a gun of any kind. Remove all state and local gun laws, and you still have a federal law that clearly forbids firearms of any kind within 100 yards of public schools.

Anyone who shoots up any school, anywhere, is violating gun laws. So what does the Boulder City Council think up to address the very real concern of school massacres? Hey, let's pass some gun laws. Duh. "If we can save one life," it would be worth it, Councilman Dan Corson told the Daily Camera.

If the city council manages to craft a gun law that isn't redundant to the Nth degree, it will serve only to make victims of future massacres more defenseless-guaranteed. Some politicians know this, but they don't care. What matters is how the public perceives the headlines their words garner. Guns kill. Duhhh. "Let's outlaw guns."

Gun control was essential to Hitler and slave owners in the Old South. Proven fact: Gun control oppresses and kills. Proven fact #2: Responsible adults, such as Joel Myrick, save lives. When unencumbered by bizarre gun laws, they can save even more lives.

So let's appeal to the Boulder City Council and the Boulder Valley School Board to explore ways of empowering law abiding adults. Perhaps it's time for the school district, with the full support of city hall, to establish a voluntary defensive weapons training course for teachers and administrators. Politicians who find a way to balance the firepower between forces of good and evil, by arming some teachers and administrators, might not get re-elected. But they might preclude a future disaster like Columbine, where SWAT teams sat helplessly in a parking lot while a teacher in the building prepared to fire at the shooters with a fire extinguisher.

Have a good laugh at this idea, on me. Then ask yourself whether it's more important to be re-elected, or to cut short a future school massacre.

We will never rid society of guns unless we eliminate the natural phenomenon of internal combustion. A gun is a crude instrument and nothing more than a controlled explosion. America is home to about 250 million of them, and they're with us to stay regardless of law.

If you want to save lives, the answer is simple. Stop keeping guns from the hands of would-be heroes-the only people who obey gun laws. Joel Myrick had a gun, legally in his truck. Myrick and his gun saved lives, but they could have saved more. The lesson: Some guns save lives.


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smokin762
12-17-2012, 22:41
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOL

Fail!

Let me guess? Blood will run in the halls if you arm teachers. :upeyes:

countrygun
12-17-2012, 22:44
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOL

Yah, boy those people who have been background checked, trained, and carry a weapon sure are dangerous. :whistling:

Wouldn't want to upset one.

smokin762
12-17-2012, 22:46
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOL

I work in manufacturing. Not one time, have I ever thought about using a firearm on my Supervisor during my closed door performance reviews. Or any other time. Your point is moot at best. :upeyes:

czsmithGT
12-17-2012, 22:47
amazing today we need armed guards in school.

Armed guards in schools are nothing new. Nor metal detectors.

czsmithGT
12-17-2012, 22:51
I agree with allowing teachers to conceal carry while in school.

I agree but permitting concealed carry is not equivalent to being able to protect children in a situation where armed response to a threat is necessary. it is not a panacea to say "tomorrow all teachers will be allowed to be armed in school".

Gundude
12-17-2012, 23:01
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOLI'm not sure where you get the idea that somebody who would use a gun over a workplace dispute wouldn't have a gun at work, regardless of any policy or sign out front.

smokin762
12-17-2012, 23:02
I agree but permitting concealed carry is not equivalent to being able to protect children in a situation where armed response to a threat is necessary. it is not a panacea to say "tomorrow all teachers will be allowed to be armed in school".

Nothing is instant. I understand that. However, most of the time it’s a band aid fix at best until those in charge can get where they need to go. I’m sticking with arming the teachers. The teachers need to consider their own safety as well.

ChuteTheMall
12-17-2012, 23:36
There should be a way for teachers and other school employees to discretely obtain training and CCW permits which would enable them to legally carry on the job.

Other teachers and employees, even principals, should not have to know one way or the other.

Concealed means concealed, and peer pressure among these mostly liberal pro-Obama women would "shame" many away from carrying guns unless they could keep it secret.

ModGlock17
12-18-2012, 00:03
I work in manufacturing. Not one time, have I ever thought about using a firearm on my Supervisor during my closed door performance reviews. Or any other time. Your point is moot at best. :upeyes:

The world would be a hunky dory place if everyone is as good as you.

Guess what?

smokin762
12-18-2012, 00:11
The world would be a hunky dory place if everyone is as good as you.

Guess what?

It really would be. But, I would want to be the King of it. :supergrin:

I'll bite, let's see are you talking about how some people are screwed up. Yes, I know those people walk among us. I'm sure I even work with a few of them.

wprebeck
12-18-2012, 00:15
Yah, boy those people who have been background checked, trained, and carry a weapon sure are dangerous. :whistling:

Wouldn't want to upset one.

Off topic, but I'll veer back on in a moment. I've got a permit holder in my jail for murder right now. And, its a legit charge, not politically driven. I don't know how much is in the media at the moment, and what I have been told was shop talk between me and a guy that works for the arresting agency. So, I don't want to put anything out that could be an issue for the case. But, its a good arrest and a very bad shoot. And, he's had all the BS you blathered on about. For that matter, pretty much every cop in the country has had an in depth background done, pysch testing, and a slew of other testing to weed out undesirables, and we STILL get morons wearing a badge. Don't begin to act that a permit holder is an automatic good guy - especially since one in OH killed a cop a couple of years ago.

Back on topic -

I'm glad we homeschool, rather than send my kid to a jail. Because that's what a number of you advocate. Matter of fact, my jail is less secure than some of your ideas for a school. Could we maybe address the root causes of these shootings, rather than send our kids to jail for the day?

ModGlock17
12-18-2012, 00:15
I'm not sure where you get the idea that somebody who would use a gun over a workplace dispute wouldn't have a gun at work, regardless of any policy or sign out front.

True. Adam Lanza proved your point.

But that wasn't my point. My point was about how others react to a CCW who doesn't win their confidence based on his behavior. Like a matured Adam Lanza carrying a gun to his Technology Club meeting.

ModGlock17
12-18-2012, 00:17
Yah, boy those people who have been background checked, trained, and carry a weapon sure are dangerous. :whistling:

Wouldn't want to upset one.

Yes. I know.

Your background checks sure worked wonder with one Mrs. Nancy Lanza !!

Checkmate.

smokin762
12-18-2012, 00:40
Yes. I know.

Your background checks sure worked wonder with one Mrs. Nancy Lanza !!

Checkmate.

No you fail once again. Looks like, your team is going to have to trade you off. Or at least bench you.

The son committed the horrible crime. The mother was another victim. I have not watched on the News one time, where there was a reported case of any domestic violence in her home with her son. Why would you think, the mother would suspect the son was going to do something like this?

Do you have a magic crystal ball knowing what your family members are going to do? I know I don’t.

countrygun
12-18-2012, 00:42
Yes. I know.

Your background checks sure worked wonder with one Mrs. Nancy Lanza !!

Checkmate.

Hey, Tweedledum, it would have seemed obvious to an intelligent people that I was referring to those who worked at the school. You obviously don't know anything about those background checks, nor about what I meant.

of course, what you have just done was make it obvious to everyone that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Nobody has yet proven a connection to her and the school or of any extra check for such a job, and no sign that she even went through a check for a CCW. Just the standard one where she purchased the guns. Assuming that you don't feel that is enough for gun owners, what would you suggest?


So how long have you been an anti gunner with a gun screen name and quasi-partriotic avatar?

G19G20
12-18-2012, 02:23
OK, Ill go again



This is a perfect example of why YOU turned more people away from Ron Paul than you ever attracted.

While I thank you for any damage you may have done to the campaign of the of that demented gremlin but you're interjecting him into every thread is surely a sign of an unstable fixation.

This is not the time or place for you to blow the trumpet of some one who got....how many electoral college votes was it?

Now go to your room and stare at the Ron Paul poster above your bed.

I posted sarcasm. You posted venom, including cursing. Who looks petulent here? How about giving some respect to the only politician to actually SEE this sort of thing coming and offer legislation that attempted to head it off? I wasn't posting about his merits for entertainment reasons.

Naaa....it's easier to attack me than to address your own lack of foresight, mostly due to a lack of research, which is your own fault. No one likes to accept fault.

G19G20
12-18-2012, 02:29
Yeah he was crazy. Just look at how many bills he got passed in his long and mediocre career while sucking millions out of the treasury and later, the college kid crowd.

Are you defending Congress for not taking up bills like the one I posted about? SERIOUSLY?


He certainly turned proposing somewhat popular but futile causes into a wealth builder for him, his family and friends.


Gun Free Zone repeal act is a futile cause and a wealth builder for Ron Paul? If his law had passed, the principal of Sandy Hook may have been carrying and stopped the death of innocent kids at the door. You call this a wealth builder? When that bill was introduced it was completely ignored by the CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, which Im sure you were paying complete attention to in aug 2011. The same channel owned by a liberal Rupert Murdoch that was busy talking about how Romney was the only electable candidate.


But really. Arming teachers is only one layer among many that would be needed to prevent this sort of tragedy again.

1. Simple steel door bars that would lock classroom doors from the inside.

2. Armed guards, dedicated, trained in hostage rescue, negotiation, CQB and layered physical security.

3. Layered physical security.


So basically turn public schools into prisons. No thanks. :faint: :faint:When do you propose the drone flights start?

kirgi08
12-18-2012, 02:39
You got 2 choices,Fort or the CT incident.That's the public side of the equation.We home school and I wouldn't want ta try entry uninvited.

My verdict in the public sector is the model Israel has installed.If you can't protect the kids,youse can't teach them.We have way too many bleeding heart liberals in the current anti-gun indoctrination centers.If "teachers" are as dedicated as they prose ta be it should not be a problem,If not;I reckon the Union and tenure is their collective goal.Show me the money.Teaching requires dedication ta folk,not privilege.'08.

beforeobamabans
12-18-2012, 03:04
My company had a security incident several years ago where one of the gals' exs stormed into the building in a rage, threatened her and generally made a scene. Fortunately, he wasn't armed or several people could have been killed. The response? It wasn't to go to the government and petition for some new law banning something. We increased security at the site. It isn't perfect security but now, the doors are locked, you get in with a key card at the outer door, the elevator and the lobby doors. There are security cameras everywhere with live monitoring. We realized we had a security problem and did something about it at the site. Same prescription will work at schools. After all, its only our children.

kirgi08
12-18-2012, 03:17
That's what folk miss,shuffle yer kids off ta school and go ta work.Gotta love the technology.'08.

happyguy
12-18-2012, 05:05
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOL

When I read a post such as this I come away with the impression the poster is either consumed by unreasoning fear or he is projecting his feelings about himself on others.

Either way it would make me cautious of arming him.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

jeanderson
12-18-2012, 06:20
My company had a security incident several years ago where one of the gals' exs stormed into the building in a rage, threatened her and generally made a scene. Fortunately, he wasn't armed or several people could have been killed. The response? It wasn't to go to the government and petition for some new law banning something. We increased security at the site. It isn't perfect security but now, the doors are locked, you get in with a key card at the outer door, the elevator and the lobby doors. There are security cameras everywhere with live monitoring. We realized we had a security problem and did something about it at the site. Same prescription will work at schools. After all, its only our children.
Good story and I agree with some solution at the site of the potential crime, but I don't know if this applies to the situation at the CT school. I believe the gunman forced his way into the school by shooting through a locked glass security door and that was it. Crazies could care less about security cameras and may actually appeal to the ones who want to go down in infamy.

No matter how hardened you make doors, someone will find a way in. Seriously, I think the only effective way to thwart a situation like this is to arm the principal, teachers or both.

Cavalry Doc
12-18-2012, 07:36
Are you defending Congress for not taking up bills like the one I posted about? SERIOUSLY?



Gun Free Zone repeal act is a futile cause and a wealth builder for Ron Paul? If his law had passed, the principal of Sandy Hook may have been carrying and stopped the death of innocent kids at the door. You call this a wealth builder? When that bill was introduced it was completely ignored by the CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, which Im sure you were paying complete attention to in aug 2011. The same channel owned by a liberal Rupert Murdoch that was busy talking about how Romney was the only electable candidate.




So basically turn public schools into prisons. No thanks. :faint: :faint:When do you propose the drone flights start?


You've been exercising your freedom again, haven't you? Moved to Washington yet?

Prisons keep bad guys in. It would be easy to take some simple measures to keep bad guys out. Wire enforced glass on external doors. Alarms on doors. Steel bars on classroom doors, armed response capability. It doesn't have to look like a prison to be a hardened target.

Drone flights? You're stoned if you think that's part of the plan.

ModGlock17
12-18-2012, 07:43
Hey, Tweedledum, it would have seemed obvious to an intelligent people that I was referring to those who worked at the school. You obviously don't know anything about those background checks, nor about what I meant.

of course, what you have just done was make it obvious to everyone that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Nobody has yet proven a connection to her and the school or of any extra check for such a job, and no sign that she even went through a check for a CCW. Just the standard one where she purchased the guns. Assuming that you don't feel that is enough for gun owners, what would you suggest?


So how long have you been an anti gunner with a gun screen name and quasi-partriotic avatar?

I'm trying to stay on topic rather than getting personal. We always say it's the liberal who gets personal.

You're feeling the pain like the rest of us, but let's be civil gun owners or we make each others look bad.

ModGlock17
12-18-2012, 07:55
...
Do you have a magic crystal ball knowing what your family members are going to do? I know I don’t.

I don't either.

But here's the other aspect of it: how would you like the gov't to deny you a mean to protect yourself because your brother seems like a cookoo, staring down people on sidewalks ?

Assume there's 300million guns in American households. We can say thay 299,999,998 guns were well kept last week. Why am I bringing this out?

To assume that background checks and all the hoola-hoops people "will" have to go through, no system can guarantee any better than 99.999999% success. That's what I wanted to point out.

It just takes a BG .0000001% to be "right" and we all go bananas to implement impulse responses. Responses that will digress (rather than progress) the 99.999999% success.

smokin762
12-18-2012, 13:21
I don't either.

But here's the other aspect of it: how would you like the gov't to deny you a mean to protect yourself because your brother seems like a cookoo, staring down people on sidewalks ?

Assume there's 300million guns in American households. We can say thay 299,999,998 guns were well kept last week. Why am I bringing this out?

To assume that background checks and all the hoola-hoops people "will" have to go through, no system can guarantee any better than 99.999999% success. That's what I wanted to point out.

It just takes a BG .0000001% to be "right" and we all go bananas to implement impulse responses. Responses that will digress (rather than progress) the 99.999999% success.


Nothing is perfect. No matter what you do to try and fix it. Making more laws is absurd.

Since this discussion is about arming the teachers, I still agree with it. Allow those teachers that want to CCW in school do so. A small Texas town is giving it a try. We’ll see how that works out. Somebody needs to be a test model.

countrygun
12-18-2012, 14:03
I'm trying to stay on topic rather than getting personal. We always say it's the liberal who gets personal.

You're feeling the pain like the rest of us, but let's be civil gun owners or we make each others look bad.

I'd just appreciate if you would stick to the known facts.

Sooo

Did she work at the school and did she have any checks on HER that anyone else buying a gun didn't have?

Was there anything about HER that was overlooked in her criminal history check before she bought those guns?

Did she, in fact, work at the school?

aircarver
12-18-2012, 14:57
Queried teacher daughter about her district's plans on this. Lotta inertia. They are stepping up lock-down drills.

Asked how many armed guards they got: Answer: Zero.

How many teachers disposed to carry: Zero. (Elementary school, all female teachers)

Like elsewhere, looking for a feelgood, if useless solution ... :frown:

.

ballr4lyf
12-18-2012, 16:03
Queried teacher daughter about her district's plans on this. Lotta inertia. They are stepping up lock-down drills.

Asked how many armed guards they got: Answer: Zero.

How many teachers disposed to carry: Zero. (Elementary school, all female teachers)

Like elsewhere, looking for a feelgood, if useless solution ... :frown:

.

Yup. You cannot address a live, dynamic threat with static security measures.

madbaumer
12-18-2012, 17:27
Even more amazing is that we'll put armed guards on a stack of gold, but have a **** fit if someone suggests guarding our children from a psychopath.

Sad to say this but todays society loves its money more than its children.

Ruble Noon
12-18-2012, 18:39
Even more amazing is that we'll put armed guards on a stack of gold, but have a **** fit if someone suggests guarding our children from a psychopath.

Yeah, I remember when our banks had armed guards. They had them because robbers went there because that's where the money's at just as crazed killers target schools because that's where all the easy victims are.

stevelyn
12-19-2012, 07:07
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.

LOL

Pfffffffffffft.......... As long as teachers unions, NEA and Dept. of Indoc....err Education exists, there's no such thing as a failing teacher. :whistling:

happyguy
12-19-2012, 08:40
The world would be a hunky dory place if everyone is as good as you.

Guess what?

I gave performance reviews to armed men and women for years with no problems.

And if teachers are so unstable, what are we doing letting them spend all day with our kids?

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

happyguy
12-19-2012, 08:43
Sad to say this but todays society loves its money more than its children.

I would add a similar sentence that reads: Todays society loves its comfort more than its children.

Most female teachers would be uncomfortable carrying guns. We wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable would we? It is far more noble to sacrifice a few teachers and childrens lives than to require public servants to submit to emotional discomfort.

In case you hadn't noticed, this whole media storm supporting gun control is really pissing me off.


Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

Skyhook
12-19-2012, 08:53
Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
I'd like to see you as a school HeadCheese giving a Performance Review to a failing Teacher who happens to carry a .45 to your meeting.



Well, I guess that like the kiddies, our teachers have to learn how to cope with failure and rejection without lusting for bloodshed. :whistling:

smokin762
12-19-2012, 11:44
It looks like a small town in Texas wants to try arming teachers and now Tennessee wants to arm the teachers. Personally, I think they are going in the right direction. Pun intended. :supergrin:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/12/tennessee-armed-teachers.php

Snowman92D
12-19-2012, 14:07
When do you propose the drone flights start?


Drone flights? You're stoned if you think that's part of the plan.

Shhhhhh...don't remind him, Doc. We're trying to get him to quit using drugs. That, and stop cheating on his wife. :supergrin:

Snowman92D
12-19-2012, 14:15
It looks like a small town in Texas wants to try arming teachers and now Tennessee wants to arm the teachers. Personally, I think they are going in the right direction.

I hope that the all-powerful teachers' union will not get in the way of this. Got my fingers crossed anyway.

It's been my experience that their union will fight you tooth and nail on teachers being involved in any security issues, beyond supervising kids as they shuffle out the door on a fire drill. The unions, especially the teachers' union, have a lot of clout in a lot of statehouses across the country and they all but own the White House.

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 14:25
How many teachers would actually do this if they were allowed? .0000001%

We need armed security in plain clothes.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Well I guess that number would just be a wild guess for you and the potential shooter.

Not to be too cheesy but "Are ya feelin lucky punk?"

Captain Caveman
12-19-2012, 14:59
Yeah he was crazy. Just look at how many bills he got passed in his long and mediocre career while sucking millions out of the treasury and later, the college kid crowd.

He certainly turned proposing somewhat popular but futile causes into a wealth builder for him, his family and friends.



But really. Arming teachers is only one layer among many that would be needed to prevent this sort of tragedy again.

1. Simple steel door bars that would lock classroom doors from the inside.

2. Armed guards, dedicated, trained in hostage rescue, negotiation, CQB and layered physical security.

3. Layered physical security.

I would number it more like this:

3
1
2

The armed response should be the last and final resort. Harden the target so it can delay the bad guy long enough to get a proper law enforcement response. If that fails, then the armed personnel inside the school will engage.

How many teachers would actually do this if they were allowed? .0000001%

We need armed security in plain clothes.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

I disagree. They should be uniformed and readily identifiable. They are a deterrent first.

madbaumer
12-19-2012, 18:43
I would add a similar sentence that reads: Todays society loves its comfort more than its children.

Most female teachers would be uncomfortable carrying guns. We wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable would we? It is far more noble to sacrifice a few teachers and childrens lives than to require public servants to submit to emotional discomfort.

In case you hadn't noticed, this whole media storm supporting gun control is really pissing me off.


Regards,
Comrade Happyguy :)

:rock:

Check your messages, I'm sending you the full copy of that since I posted it elsewhere.

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 19:46
Queried teacher daughter about her district's plans on this. Lotta inertia. They are stepping up lock-down drills.

Asked how many armed guards they got: Answer: Zero.

How many teachers disposed to carry: Zero. (Elementary school, all female teachers)

Like elsewhere, looking for a feelgood, if useless solution ... :frown:

.

I posted something about letting teachers cc on my facebook wall. The teachers who responded acted as though I was a moron.....like it was completely a non-starter how dare I think of it. As though you can't possibly teach school with a pistol concealed on your body.

I said, "well, I hope you don't die waiting for the swat team"


I don't understand the logic of some folks. They are so conditioned.

Cavalry Doc
12-19-2012, 20:57
Shhhhhh...don't remind him, Doc. We're trying to get him to quit using drugs. That, and stop cheating on his wife. :supergrin:

I'm sure his wife has meth mouth, so who could blame him. He's probably looking for a chick with at least three white teeth.

kirgi08
12-19-2012, 23:46
I posted something about letting teachers cc on my facebook wall. The teachers who responded acted as though I was a moron.....like it was completely a non-starter how dare I think of it. As though you can't possibly teach school with a pistol concealed on your body.

I said, "well, I hope you don't die waiting for the swat team"


I don't understand the logic of some folks. They are so conditioned.

What state does she teach in?,you should send her that pic of the Israeli school teacher with her M-1 carbine.Well with where she's at it maybe a M-2.'08. :drool:

G19G20
12-20-2012, 04:00
Shhhhhh...don't remind him, Doc. We're trying to get him to quit using drugs. That, and stop cheating on his wife. :supergrin:

Katt Williams: HATERS - YouTube

Snowman92D
12-20-2012, 04:18
I'm sure his wife has meth mouth, so who could blame him. He's probably looking for a chick with at least three white teeth.

Eeeeeeew, Doc.

But you're probably right, though. With his sense of humor and political worldview, he no doubt has to take potluck. :supergrin:

G19G20
12-20-2012, 04:24
Eeeeeeew, Doc.

But you're probably right, though. With his sense of humor and political worldview, he no doubt has to take potluck. :supergrin:

Says the guy that's firmly committed my sex life to his memory since august. Enjoy your sloppy potluck seconds.

Snowman92D
12-20-2012, 04:56
Says the guy that's firmly committed my sex life to his memory since august. Enjoy your sloppy potluck seconds.

Don't flatter yourself. Besides, sticky hands aren't something I find appealing. :shame:

Cavalry Doc
12-20-2012, 07:13
Says the guy that's firmly committed my sex life to his memory since august. Enjoy your sloppy potluck seconds.

When you out yourself as a man without ethics, don't be surprised when people remember. Your play to make yourself seem like a desirable fellow backfired. You put it out there.

Bren
12-20-2012, 07:17
Watching CNN will rot your brain.

I think he's been watching it for a long, long time.

HexHead
12-20-2012, 07:19
amazing today we need armed guards in school.

Why? They are the softest target possible. With the exception of maybe a "school resource officer", you are guaranteed their wont be any armed adults on the premises. Take him out first and it's a free fire zone.

The CT shooter was the truest coward. Six year olds aren't going to rush you while you reload.

eracer
12-20-2012, 07:26
That's a little harsh.

Ron Paul does deserve some credit for destroying the Libertarian movement forever, leaving it's crumbling remains in the hands of impotent fools.

We need competent, sane politicians to abolish gun free zones; the same non-libtard politicians all of the country who fought for decades to give us increased opportunities for legal concealed carry.Like Sarah Palin?:rofl:

Skyhook
12-20-2012, 07:52
Like Sarah Palin?:rofl:

Speaking of drug-induced behavior.. why would anyone be so fixated upon a Republican/Conservative/Patriotic woman enough to see her virtually 'everywhere'?! :shocked:

countrygun
12-20-2012, 07:55
Like Sarah Palin?:rofl:

says the guy that helped the ticket with Biden on it?

:rofl::rofl:

sorry fella most of us don't take political advice from a feminine hygiene device like you.

G19G20
12-20-2012, 17:10
When you out yourself as a man without ethics, don't be surprised when people remember. Your play to make yourself seem like a desirable fellow backfired. You put it out there.

Quit trolling and stay on topic. This is a serious thread about serious issues.

countrygun
12-20-2012, 17:15
Quit trolling and stay on topic. This is a serious thread about serious issues.

You have a point, your ethics may be a lot of things, but "serious" isn't one of them.

Cavalry Doc
12-20-2012, 17:23
Quit trolling and stay on topic. This is a serious thread about serious issues.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

:tongueout:

You outed yourself by admitting to a serious ethical lapse, posted it here for all to see to make yourself seem manly, and while that was probably posted while "exercising your freedom", it is now part of the permanent record.

A man that will cheat on his wife will likely cheat on someone that's not sleeping with him. Sorry, but I don't trust guys like that at all. You will never be welcome in my foxhole. I don't want you on my team if things get rough.

I advised you long ago to discard this screen name and start over, because you had irreparably destroyed your reputation with odd behavior and opinions based on your own misunderstandings about world history. You've admitted that you've not traveled much, and that is very evident in your understanding of the world.


Some of us remember. You're gonna have to GTFOI.

G19G20
12-20-2012, 17:33
Still trolling?

You old guys should take some memory supplements. Im not married. Never said I was. Memory FAIL.

Second, apparently you old guys have never heard of open relationships. I can only think that if my sex life is that important to you that it is indeed YOU three stooges that isn't getting any. Im pretty sure your wive's wrinkled and inoperable post-menopausal junk isn't very appealing so I don't blame you for living vicariously through my exploits. Just try not to be so obvious about it in the future.

Can we get back on topic now please?

countrygun
12-20-2012, 17:53
Off topic, but I'll veer back on in a moment. I've got a permit holder in my jail for murder right now. And, its a legit charge, not politically driven. I don't know how much is in the media at the moment, and what I have been told was shop talk between me and a guy that works for the arresting agency. So, I don't want to put anything out that could be an issue for the case. But, its a good arrest and a very bad shoot. And, he's had all the BS you blathered on about. For that matter, pretty much every cop in the country has had an in depth background done, pysch testing, and a slew of other testing to weed out undesirables, and we STILL get morons wearing a badge. Don't begin to act that a permit holder is an automatic good guy - especially since one in OH killed a cop a couple of years ago.

Back on topic -

I'm glad we homeschool, rather than send my kid to a jail. Because that's what a number of you advocate. Matter of fact, my jail is less secure than some of your ideas for a school. Could we maybe address the root causes of these shootings, rather than send our kids to jail for the day?

what is the number of cops arrested for murder each year? One guy is questionable on three wives as I recall. what's the number of permit holders? Really most everyone in the vetting process for either do their best. I was responding to a posters claim about being afraid to give a bad review to someone because they carry.

If gun owners have gotten to that level of cannibalism, we have more problems than just WaDC and the politicians.