1968 was the break-point-David Kopel WSJ [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : 1968 was the break-point-David Kopel WSJ


Skyhook
12-19-2012, 06:54
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323723104578185271857424036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

" Counting only the incidents with at least two casualties, there were 179 such crimes between 1966 and 2010. In the 1980s, there were 18. In the 1990s, there were 54. In the 2000s, there were 87.

If you count only such crimes in which five or more victims were killed, there were six in the 1980s and 19 in the 2000s."

What's changed? :headscratch:

SteveH
12-19-2012, 07:28
First person violent video games in which players are rewarding for the amount of de-humanizing carnage they create. Also the movies and TV shows that we watch.

Skyhook
12-19-2012, 07:36
First person violent video games in which players are rewarding for the amount of de-humanizing carnage they create. Also the movies and TV shows that we watch.

I am convinced you are correct in thinking those bloody, violent, "games" introduce and reinforce ugly behavior and/or thinking.

Children are -by law- forbidden 'porn'.. why is it the glorification of murder and dismemberment is not just allowed, but encouraged?

fgutie35
12-19-2012, 07:40
Cause maybe after the draft was over, they had to resort to movies and eventually video games to incite young adults to enlist in the military?
I don't know, I'm just guessing here.:dunno:

engineer151515
12-19-2012, 07:41
I am convinced you are correct in thinking those bloody, violent, "games" introduce and reinforce ugly behavior and/or thinking.

Children are -by law- forbidden 'porn'.. why is it the glorification of murder and dismemberment is not just allowed, but encouraged?

I never understood that reasoning either.

Show a topless woman's breast and it's OMG and blurred. I've even seen movies on tv that just digitally removed the nipple.

But the next scene with beheadings . . no problem.

aspartz
12-19-2012, 07:44
I never understood that reasoning either.

Show a topless woman's breast and it's OMG and blurred. I've even seen movies on tv that just digitally removed the nipple.

But the next scene with beheadings . . no problem.
Welcome to PG-13. All the violence a kid could want, but very limited sexuality, nudity or language. PG-13 is the bane of the modern movie -- it's what started the pattern that every movie had to be action adventure. No adult themes (or plot) allowed, just a great deal of violence.

ARS

Glock!9
12-19-2012, 07:49
Does porn cause rape?

It isnt the games, its that parents let kids do 2 things.
1. Play games not age appropriate.
2. Get immersed into a fantasy world by allowing them to play countless hours.
If it were the games then we would have a lot more killers, trust me...

Skyhook
12-19-2012, 08:01
Does porn cause rape?

It isnt the games, its that parents let kids do 2 things.
1. Play games not age appropriate.
2. Get immersed into a fantasy world by allowing them to play countless hours.
If it were the games then we would have a lot more killers, trust me...


No one who has raised a son-- through adolescence-- will need much convincing that there are 'age-specific' activities related to child rearing.
Anyone recall that study which proved adolescent males' brains turn to mush during the testosterone storm? No, really- the brain cells were actually detected migrating.. no surprise to parents who often find themselves living with a stranger who was once a sweet kid.

Glock!9
12-19-2012, 08:08
No one who has raised a son-- through adolescence-- will need much convincing that there are 'age-specific' activities related to child rearing.
Anyone recall that study which proved adolescent males' brains turn to mush during the testosterone storm? No, really- the brain cells were actually detected migrating.. no surprise to parents who often find themselves living with a stranger who was once a sweet kid.

Also, as someone who plays online games, i see how bad the online gaming community is for teens. The internet offers a level of anonymity to these kids to say things they would never do in real life. They can be something they are not...and get introduced to things they would not otherwise.
I have three kids and they will NOT be playing online games unless supervised.

Gunhaver
12-19-2012, 08:21
First person violent video games in which players are rewarding for the amount of de-humanizing carnage they create. Also the movies and TV shows that we watch.

Cool. Those are things I care nothing about. Let the bans begin!

pugman
12-19-2012, 13:08
I had a feeling someone would jump on the video game band wagon. I'm 43 and heard the same thing from my uncles when my parents bought us an Atari 2600 or I bought a KISS tape (which of course stood for Kids in Satan's Service... really Uncle Bob?). As someone born in 1969, I have lived through the entire transition period.

I agree there are a lot of games today which show and promote massive amounts of violence; but the real problem goes much deeper and wider than just some kid playing Modern Warfare or Halo. If it didn’t, we would see a CT/CO type of shooting every week.

Kids today are too thin skinned. I hear about fights at my nephew’s grade school between boys and girls because one of them dissed the other on Facebook? One kid beat up another kid because one had an iPhone and the other “only” had a regular cell phone…really?

Parent has become less and less of a verb and we as a society hold them less and less accountable.

My brother is good friends with the husband of the local school nurse. He was told 1 in 20 kids in our local grade school is on some sort of mood altering, antidepressant type of drug. You are 12...what the hell do you have to be depressed about.

It seems like we have “discovered” more types of mental illness in the past 20 years than we had in the previous 200.

Role models in society have changed. Remember when kids/young adults wanted to become astronauts, firefighters or police men. I swear this is true: two weekends ago I asked one of my nephew’s friends what he was looking to do for school or what he wanted to become…he told me a vampire….and he was serious.

You can’t miss the fact our society as a whole (but kids in particular) is becoming less and less physically fit; as the physical part goes so does the mental/self-esteem.

I have read theories on everything from toxins in our food to solar radiation but I think the real problem is simply we are raising a generation of p******.

SteveH
12-19-2012, 13:11
Yeah but there is a big difference between playing "Call of Duty" and the games that used to be on an Atari 2600.

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 13:21
Its pretty simple really. The Progressive movement has gradually torn apart family, church and community.

The baby boomers put it into overdrive.

pugman
12-19-2012, 13:25
Yeah but there is a big difference between playing "Call of Duty" and the games that used to be on an Atari 2600.

I completely agree.

Halo 3 sold 3.3 million copies in its first 12 days of sale in the U.S. If it was games only we would have hundreds of these mass shootings every year.

The fact all these shooters play video games may be a common trait but it can't be the cause but I would agree, depending on the person, it could be a contributing factor.

I would agree I think the fantasy world seems be more and more prevalent every Halloween. I remember when for Trick or Treat I used to see a lot occupation costumes like cowboys, doctors, or what not.

But to your point....I had one group of young boys all dressed in fatigues...I asked "So what Branch you guys in"...their response...we aren't in the Army...we are the Zombie Slayers from MW2..

Stubudd
12-19-2012, 13:44
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323723104578185271857424036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

" Counting only the incidents with at least two casualties, there were 179 such crimes between 1966 and 2010. In the 1980s, there were 18. In the 1990s, there were 54. In the 2000s, there were 87.

If you count only such crimes in which five or more victims were killed, there were six in the 1980s and 19 in the 2000s."

What's changed? :headscratch:

My guess would be the drugs. Psychiatric drugs.

jeanderson
12-19-2012, 14:36
Advances in technologies make video games more realistic with every passing year, right down to the anatomically correct exit wounds. It becomes increasingly difficult, for kids who become immersed in these games, to distinguish between the fantasy and reality. My neighbor had to send their kid to counseling - he became absolutely addicted to a video game and was flunking out in school. Fortunately, the kid turned around and is now in college.

pugman
12-19-2012, 15:35
Advances in technologies make video games more realistic with every passing year, right down to the anatomically correct exit wounds. It becomes increasingly difficult, for kids who become immersed in these games, to distinguish between the fantasy and reality. My neighbor had to send their kid to counseling - he became absolutely addicted to a video game and was flunking out in school. Fortunately, the kid turned around and is now in college.

Studying graphic design?

VR is a science/technology which will only get better and better...yes, I bet the porn industry will be the first to sign on.

Ruble Noon
12-19-2012, 16:59
Its pretty simple really. The Progressive movement has gradually torn apart family, church and community.

The baby boomers put it into overdrive.

My guess would be the drugs. Psychiatric drugs.

I agree with these two posts.

It would seem to me that blaming video games for violence is the same as blaming guns for killing.

Skyhook
12-19-2012, 17:33
My guess would be the drugs. Psychiatric drugs.

Yes; that and the disintegration of family, forbidding meaningful, character-building discipline, and dropping the term 'personal responsibility' from our daily thoughts.

Males father millions of children every year in this country they cannot afford nor care to raise... the rest of us pay dearly for that as tax payers and victims of crime.:steamed:

Stubudd
12-19-2012, 19:52
Yes; that and the disintegration of family, forbidding meaningful, character-building discipline, and dropping the term 'personal responsibility' from our daily thoughts.

Males father millions of children every year in this country they cannot afford nor care to raise... the rest of us pay dearly for that as tax payers and victims of crime.:steamed:

I think it's more like- prescribe by the millions these powerful and often not well understood drugs, and you're bound to have a few cases where some really wild psychoses show up.

certifiedfunds
12-19-2012, 20:04
Yes; that and the disintegration of family, forbidding meaningful, character-building discipline, and dropping the term 'personal responsibility' from our daily thoughts.

Males father millions of children every year in this country they cannot afford nor care to raise... the rest of us pay dearly for that as tax payers and victims of crime.:steamed:

Too many cities and suburbs where shame is non-existent.

Then add in, and I mean this sincerely, inflation and oppressive taxation pushing both parents into the workforce.

jeanderson
12-19-2012, 20:10
Studying graphic design?
Believe it or not, he actually had an interest in programming games. I'm a software engineer and tried to get him interested in learning software and game programming. He's a smart kid and was thinking that if he was that interested he might turn into a decent programmer. He eventually lost interest and is now getting a business degree at OSU.

Stubudd
12-19-2012, 20:22
The kid was on a controversial anti-psychotic known to sometimes trigger violent psychosis. Who'd a thunk it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12

KB2MBC
12-19-2012, 20:28
delete

KB2MBC
12-19-2012, 20:30
Does porn cause rape?



No, carpal tunnel.

Stubudd
12-20-2012, 01:59
Perusing the reporting in the MSM, i've yet to see a mention of the drugs he'd been taking. Maybe it just isn't news yet- not official or something.

Sure seems like his taking a drug with this specific combination of most frequently reported side effects might be worth mentioning though:

From Drugs.com, side effects of the drug Fanapt:
Psychiatric
Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.

That's from the same link above.

Skyhook
12-20-2012, 06:07
Too many cities and suburbs where shame is non-existent.

Then add in, and I mean this sincerely, inflation and oppressive taxation pushing both parents into the workforce.


That's racist!:whistling:

Skyhook
12-20-2012, 06:22
Perusing the reporting in the MSM, i've yet to see a mention of the drugs he'd been taking. Maybe it just isn't news yet- not official or something.

Sure seems like his taking a drug with this specific combination of most frequently reported side effects might be worth mentioning though:

From Drugs.com, side effects of the drug Fanapt:
Psychiatric
Psychiatric side effects including restlessness, aggression, and delusion have been reported frequently. Hostility, decreased libido, paranoia, anorgasmia, confusional state, mania, catatonia, mood swings, panic attack, obsessive-compulsive disorder, bulimia nervosa, delirium, polydipsia psychogenic, impulse-control disorder, and major depression have been reported infrequently.

That's from the same link above.\

I think the ignoring of that really important information (drugs) would interfere with two big agenda items in the MSM dope bag: 1) It would take away some of the steam they ginned-up about GUNS, 2) It would also tend to make people with 1/2 a brain or more to wonder about the social engineering the progressives are touting. Drugs & people control go together... ask Hollywood. :whistling:

The Machinist
12-20-2012, 06:27
My guess would be the drugs. Psychiatric drugs.
You stole my answer.

Stubudd
12-20-2012, 13:33
\

I think the ignoring of that really important information (drugs) would interfere with two big agenda items in the MSM dope bag: 1) It would take away some of the steam they ginned-up about GUNS, 2) It would also tend to make people with 1/2 a brain or more to wonder about the social engineering the progressives are touting. Drugs & people control go together... ask Hollywood. :whistling:

Yep and yep, plus don't forget all that advertising $$$$$

DonGlock26
12-21-2012, 07:47
Its pretty simple really. The Progressive movement has gradually torn apart family, church and community.

The baby boomers put it into overdrive.

Yep!



Since 1960, there has been a 560% increase in violent crime, a 419% increase in illegitimate births; a quadrupling in divorce rates; a tripling of the percentage of children living in single-parent homes; more than a 200% increase in the teenage suicide rate; and a drop of almost 80 points in SAT scores.
William J. Bennett (1993)





And, that was 1993!! :wow:

I was a police officer from 1989 to 2012. I watched parenting tank over my career. When I started, parents were still generally upset and ashamed with their teenagers for getting in trouble. When, I left, parents were upset with us for arresting their criminal sons. The sense of shame disappeared.

So, I lay the bulk of the blame at the feet of the Left's social revolution. They destroyed the brick and mortar of our society- the family, and everyone but them is wondering why society is dysfunction. The progressives? They are happy as clams. But, they are emotional reasoners and have given scant attention to what a post-Western civilization world will be like. I think it will make the current flash mob beat downs look like a day at the park.

The sexual revolution also has had a huge effect. Women were 'liberated' from being attentive wives and mothers, but now they seem to be raising children by themselves quite a bit. That doesn't seem very liberating to me. And, even if a couple marries, it seems that both have to work outside of the home to maintain a middle class living. So, the labor of two now equals the labor of one. Doesn't seem very liberating again. It seem like two people have to work to help pay for a bloated state that funds illegitimacy.

Then, there is the global economy. Well, we sent out manufacturing base to China and no one in the establishment really wants to talk about the obvious economic fallout. Frankly, we have been maintaining our standard of living from this massive sell-out by using credit: credit cards, home equity loans, dipping into retirement savings, retiring early, going on social security at 62 from the unemployment rolls, sub-prime mortgages so that people with no chance of middle class success(see global economy above) could realize the dream of home ownership until the house is foreclosed on in a few years.

The next few decades will suck- IMHO.

Skyhook
12-21-2012, 17:04
"
Since 1960, there has been a 560% increase in violent crime, a 419% increase in illegitimate births; a quadrupling in divorce rates; a tripling of the percentage of children living in single-parent homes; more than a 200% increase in the teenage suicide rate; and a drop of almost 80 points in SAT scores."
William J. Bennett (1993)


And, I'll bet something like a 5000% increase in homosexuals and transsexuals.. makes one wonder.. WTF are we doing?!?:faint:

TDC20
12-21-2012, 22:19
My guess would be the drugs. Psychiatric drugs.
I have to agree. There's no question about three of biggest incidents, VA Tech, Aurora, and now Newtown. All 3 shooters under psychiatric care. The one thing that never gets reported are what drugs. They hide behind their patient-doctor confidentiality. The drug companies have a huge stake in it financially, too. The media loves blaming the guns. The politicians want the guns banned so they can have the ultimate regressive, centrally planned, statist society that they lust after.

The brain is a chemical computer, and extremely complex. Only fools think they can tinker with the chemical makeup and be 100% right on 100% of patients. What can be a miracle drug for one person can turn the next person into a killing machine. So treating mental illness is in most cases an experiment, and sometimes those experiments go horribly wrong. Thank God it only happens in rare instances.

The psychiatric community and the drug companies are apparently (?) not held accountable. People should not be suing Bushmaster, they should be suing the shrink for malpractice, and the drug companies for putting drugs with known dangerous side-effects on the market.

The FDA has a responsibility in all of this, too. I thought it was telling in the article: "...Fanapt was dropped by its first producer, picked up by another, initially rejected by the FDA, then later picked up and mass produced." Hmm...dropped by the original drug company, picked up by another, rejected by the FDA, then accepted by the FDA? Why would something once rejected by the FDA be then found somehow acceptable? There's a lot more to this story than any of us will probably ever know.

One thing I do know, though. I won't hold my breath waiting for 60 Minutes to expose the link between these shootings and the psychotropic drugs and the psychiatrists who prescribe them. Instead, we'll just get more sleight of hand from the government media complex. And more cries for banning the evil guns.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FkqKRQc6

Skyhook
12-22-2012, 02:12
I have to agree. There's no question about three of biggest incidents, VA Tech, Aurora, and now Newtown. All 3 shooters under psychiatric care. The one thing that never gets reported are what drugs. They hide behind their patient-doctor confidentiality. The drug companies have a huge stake in it financially, too. The media loves blaming the guns. The politicians want the guns banned so they can have the ultimate regressive, centrally planned, statist society that they lust after.

The brain is a chemical computer, and extremely complex. Only fools think they can tinker with the chemical makeup and be 100% right on 100% of patients. What can be a miracle drug for one person can turn the next person into a killing machine. So treating mental illness is in most cases an experiment, and sometimes those experiments go horribly wrong. Thank God it only happens in rare instances.

The psychiatric community and the drug companies are apparently (?) not held accountable. People should not be suing Bushmaster, they should be suing the shrink for malpractice, and the drug companies for putting drugs with known dangerous side-effects on the market.

The FDA has a responsibility in all of this, too. I thought it was telling in the article: "...Fanapt was dropped by its first producer, picked up by another, initially rejected by the FDA, then later picked up and mass produced." Hmm...dropped by the original drug company, picked up by another, rejected by the FDA, then accepted by the FDA? Why would something once rejected by the FDA be then found somehow acceptable? There's a lot more to this story than any of us will probably ever know.

One thing I do know, though. I won't hold my breath waiting for 60 Minutes to expose the link between these shootings and the psychotropic drugs and the psychiatrists who prescribe them. Instead, we'll just get more sleight of hand from the government media complex. And more cries for banning the evil guns.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12#ixzz2FkqKRQc6


:goodpost:

There are lots and lots of momma's little helpers out there for the harried mom.

Drug problems in this country used to resemble a patch-work quilt... it is more like a many-layered swamp at present.

Skyhook
12-22-2012, 02:16
Yep!




And, that was 1993!! :wow:

I was a police officer from 1989 to 2012. I watched parenting tank over my career. When I started, parents were still generally upset and ashamed with their teenagers for getting in trouble. When, I left, parents were upset with us for arresting their criminal sons. The sense of shame disappeared.

So, I lay the bulk of the blame at the feet of the Left's social revolution. They destroyed the brick and mortar of our society- the family, and everyone but them is wondering why society is dysfunction. The progressives? They are happy as clams. But, they are emotional reasoners and have given scant attention to what a post-Western civilization world will be like. I think it will make the current flash mob beat downs look like a day at the park.

The sexual revolution also has had a huge effect. Women were 'liberated' from being attentive wives and mothers, but now they seem to be raising children by themselves quite a bit. That doesn't seem very liberating to me. And, even if a couple marries, it seems that both have to work outside of the home to maintain a middle class living. So, the labor of two now equals the labor of one. Doesn't seem very liberating again. It seem like two people have to work to help pay for a bloated state that funds illegitimacy.

Then, there is the global economy. Well, we sent out manufacturing base to China and no one in the establishment really wants to talk about the obvious economic fallout. Frankly, we have been maintaining our standard of living from this massive sell-out by using credit: credit cards, home equity loans, dipping into retirement savings, retiring early, going on social security at 62 from the unemployment rolls, sub-prime mortgages so that people with no chance of middle class success(see global economy above) could realize the dream of home ownership until the house is foreclosed on in a few years.

The next few decades will suck- IMHO.

Could this- "I was a police officer from 1989 to 2012. I watched parenting tank over my career. When I started, parents were still generally upset and ashamed with their teenagers for getting in trouble. When, I left, parents were upset with us for arresting their criminal sons. The sense of shame disappeared." be titled, 'The '60s in Fill Bloom'?


As for - "The next few decades will suck-" I just hope and pray for that 'pendulum to swing'.