What Does A Second Best Arsenal Look Like... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ArrowJ
12-20-2012, 00:14
I am just not in a financial position that allows me to go out and grab up a black gun, or even to buy one on credit. It was actually part of my five year plan to buy one in 2014.

Assuming the government removes that option, what is the next best thing? I still want to keep my family safe, but also I wanted to own one of these weapons for the reasons the second amendment was written. If the United States were to have a civil war what should I own? A milsurp semi auto rifle of some kind without the dangerous pistol grip and rail system?

I plan on buying a Glock 31 within a few months assuming I can still find one by then. I may also pick up a 10/22 TD, but if the 25 round magazines are no longer available I may skip that as well.

It is all so frustrating. It is so hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that there are people that honestly believe an AWB will prevent further mass shootings. I know there are a lot of folks that think this will blow over with little consequence, but I am just not that optimistic. Anyway, what does a "second best" arsenal look like?

Armchair Commando
12-20-2012, 00:34
Buy a AK47

ArrowJ
12-20-2012, 00:54
I am assuming those will be taken too, but it is a possibility.

bigmoney890
12-20-2012, 01:06
Go ahead and buy a lower receiver now, so you'll be covered in the event that a ban is passed.

ArrowJ
12-20-2012, 01:12
What would that cost? I have to spend quite a chunk in the coming months on a pistol, reloading equipment, and components. I just do not know if I can swing it.

cowboy1964
12-20-2012, 01:50
Go ahead and buy a lower receiver now, so you'll be covered in the event that a ban is passed.

That won't help. If it's not 100% complete before the ban then the build must comply with the new requirements. Of course we aren't sure EXACTLY what the new requirements are yet. It's quite possible that things will be far more Draconian than the last AWB.

GunLoverLiberty
12-20-2012, 02:06
That won't help. If it's not 100% complete before the ban then the build must comply with the new requirements. Of course we aren't sure EXACTLY what the new requirements are yet. It's quite possible that things will be far more Draconian than the last AWB.

I fail to see how an AWB would even effect the plain AR platform.

After all. It's a Semi-Auto gun. Not an Automatic.

The last AWB only applied to M16 and other full autos correct?

Whats all this scare about then? Wouldn't it be better to use the term SAWB?

cesaros
12-20-2012, 02:10
I fail to see how an AWB would even effect the plain AR platform.

After all. It's a Semi-Auto gun. Not an Automatic.

The last AWB only applied to M16 and other full autos correct?

Whats all this scare about then? Wouldn't it be better to use the term SAWB?

There isn't a set definition of what qualifies as an AW...Even in the military we don't use Assault Rifles...its just a "selector fired rifle"...semi/burst, no automatic firing.

So whoever writes a new AWB could define an assault weapon as whatever they want.

GunLoverLiberty
12-20-2012, 02:18
There isn't a set definition of what qualifies as an AW...Even in the military we don't use Assault Rifles...its just a "selector fired rifle"...semi/burst, no automatic firing.

So whoever writes a new AWB could define an assault weapon as whatever they want.

In principal tho, an AR "style" is the same type of gun as granpappys old varmint plinker.

I don't see how gubmen't is going to ban a gun simply based on how it looks. & if they do. we can still buy rifles that fire the same cartridge.

I've been reading some scare tactics on this site & I've got to admit that I don't believe it.

The gun industry is far to big for this to have any real effect and since the AR is probably the most popular platform in America, how are they suddenly going to make them disappear?

wvtarheel
12-20-2012, 06:37
I fail to see how an AWB would even effect the plain AR platform.


It did last time (1994) and if the democrats have their way it will this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-banning-assault-weapons-in-one-post/

I don't normally read the washington post but thats a good historical article.

WinterWizard
12-20-2012, 06:49
In principal tho, an AR "style" is the same type of gun as granpappys old varmint plinker.

I don't see how gubmen't is going to ban a gun simply based on how it looks. & if they do. we can still buy rifles that fire the same cartridge.

I've been reading some scare tactics on this site & I've got to admit that I don't believe it.

The gun industry is far to big for this to have any real effect and since the AR is probably the most popular platform in America, how are they suddenly going to make them disappear?

The AWB from 1994-2004 didn't convince you? Nor the speech that Obama just gave in which he gave VP Biden till the end of January to come up with a gun control agenda that he has promised to pursue?

Don't be so naive, bro.

Big Bird
12-20-2012, 06:54
Has to pass the House. Probably not going to happen with the Republican majorities we have now. Maybe it will. But I'm saying probably not.

The other side of this debate hasn't even been considered nor have pro-gun folks voiced their opinion on the national stage. The last time the Dims did this they lost their majorities in both houses in landslide elections. There are still quite a few of them that vividly remember the political price they paid for such foolishness. Clearly they have us on our heels now and have some momentum. But that doesn't mean our side is done.

The Dims will get some religion soon--when the polls begin to reflect the unpopularity of what they are trying to do and the gun lobby kicks in. Maybe its different this time. Maybe not. The Stockton School yard massacre in 1989 gave impetus to the original AWB. But the Dims controlled the both houses of Congress back then and it just BARELY passed AND it took them 4 years to get it done!

As I said--they still remember their loss of both houses in the elections that followed. Pro-gun forces are credited with those victories. Anyone willing to bet the Democrats from Red states are going to imperil their seats and current majorities over this?

This things not over yet by a long shot. But instead of stupid panic buying we need to get out and get busy. Writing letters to Congressmen etc.

BobbyT
12-20-2012, 06:59
Don't think smaller, think bigger.

AR-10
FN-FAL
M14 (M1A)
G3 (PTR-91)

boomhower
12-20-2012, 07:56
Don't think smaller, think bigger.

AR-10
FN-FAL
M14 (M1A)
G3 (PTR-91)

Those will also likely face a ban if passed. I like the idea from a slightly different angle. If they can't get a ban passed but do get a mag limit ban passed them a smaller number of larger bullets would be a way to go.

DeLo
12-20-2012, 08:16
Don't think smaller, think bigger.

AR-10
FN-FAL
M14 (M1A)
G3 (PTR-91)

Marlin 1895 Guide Gun. The earth will shake and your enemies brains will vaporize.

TedG
12-20-2012, 08:22
A good defensive shotgun. Semi or pump is fine. Winchester, Mossberg, or Remington. Inexpensive and good out to 100 yards with slugs. This is a very inexpensive, and efficient alternative.

K. Foster
12-20-2012, 08:50
Assuming the government removes that option, what is the next best thing? I still want to keep my family safe, but also I wanted to own one of these weapons for the reasons the second amendment was written. If the United States were to have a civil war what should I own? A milsurp semi auto rifle of some kind without the dangerous pistol grip and rail system?

You are way over thinking this. There’s not going to be a civil war. If you want a semi-auto rifle, buy a Ruger 10/22 and a bunch of ammo.

Jfduece
12-20-2012, 08:58
In principal tho, an AR "style" is the same type of gun as granpappys old varmint plinker.

I don't see how gubmen't is going to ban a gun simply based on how it looks. & if they do. we can still buy rifles that fire the same cartridge.

I've been reading some scare tactics on this site & I've got to admit that I don't believe it.

The gun industry is far to big for this to have any real effect and since the AR is probably the most popular platform in America, how are they suddenly going to make them disappear?

You are confusing "assault rifle" with "assault weapon". An assault weapon is politically defined as whatever the gov't deisres. An assault rifle is as you described.

Gunnut 45/454
12-20-2012, 10:41
Well if you have no funds sounds like you SOL! Cause the prices will be going stupid high! So your never going to have enough. Get a good Rem 870 and call it good atleast you have something to protect yourself!:whistling:

Bren
12-20-2012, 10:45
What would that cost? I have to spend quite a chunk in the coming months on a pistol, reloading equipment, and components. I just do not know if I can swing it.

I'd put the AR lower ahead of reloading compnents. They did cost under $150 for plenty of good ones, but they may have just gone way up.

mc1911
12-20-2012, 11:10
My pre-Ar defense long gun was a Marlin 1894c in .357.

A compact lever gun might be an answer. An older used 30-30 might work.

WoodenPlank
12-20-2012, 11:25
There isn't a set definition of what qualifies as an AW...Even in the military we don't use Assault Rifles...its just a "selector fired rifle"...semi/burst, no automatic firing.

So whoever writes a new AWB could define an assault weapon as whatever they want.

Actually, burst still means assault rifle. Burst or automatic, intermediate cartridge, and detachable magazine = assault rifle. An "assault weapon" is a BS term made up by the gun grabbers to demonize semi-auto rifles that LOOK like assault rifles.

In principal tho, an AR "style" is the same type of gun as granpappys old varmint plinker.

I don't see how gubmen't is going to ban a gun simply based on how it looks. & if they do. we can still buy rifles that fire the same cartridge.

I've been reading some scare tactics on this site & I've got to admit that I don't believe it.

The gun industry is far to big for this to have any real effect and since the AR is probably the most popular platform in America, how are they suddenly going to make them disappear?

I'm guessing you weren't old enough when the '94 ban was passed or still in full effect. Someone else posted the links already.

Has to pass the House. Probably not going to happen with the Republican majorities we have now. Maybe it will. But I'm saying probably not.

The other side of this debate hasn't even been considered nor have pro-gun folks voiced their opinion on the national stage. The last time the Dims did this they lost their majorities in both houses in landslide elections. There are still quite a few of them that vividly remember the political price they paid for such foolishness. Clearly they have us on our heels now and have some momentum. But that doesn't mean our side is done.

The Dims will get some religion soon--when the polls begin to reflect the unpopularity of what they are trying to do and the gun lobby kicks in. Maybe its different this time. Maybe not. The Stockton School yard massacre in 1989 gave impetus to the original AWB. But the Dims controlled the both houses of Congress back then and it just BARELY passed AND it took them 4 years to get it done!

As I said--they still remember their loss of both houses in the elections that followed. Pro-gun forces are credited with those victories. Anyone willing to bet the Democrats from Red states are going to imperil their seats and current majorities over this?

This things not over yet by a long shot. But instead of stupid panic buying we need to get out and get busy. Writing letters to Congressmen etc.

Nice to see something you and I agree on for once. As a kicker, most of these bills have to start in the House Judiciary Committee, where the Republicans have a LARGE majority, and it is likely to stay that way. If that committee decides they don't like a bill before them, it's basically dead in the water.

Either way, people need to be writing and calling their senators and representatives, and make it VERY clear that we will not support anyone that votes for any new gun control legislation.

dkf
12-20-2012, 11:26
I was watching some lowers on Gunbroker. Spikes tactical lower that Spikes sells for $115 (which on an 8-12 month backorder) was at $362 the last time I checked.

This whole thing is stupid and the gooberment just keeps wanting to make the same stupid mistakes over and over. Not like I did not see Barry and the libtards trying something like this though. I just thought it would take more than a couple months after Barry got his second term.

Expect to see some republicans turn and sell out. Sorry I see a some type of loss for us coming down the road. Whether that means bans, registries or taxes.

There was a large opposition to Obamacare and look how that panned out.

I don't have a AR and kept pushing off the $1400 price tag for what I wanted. Wish I didn't because I will probably be screwed. Now is surely not the time to buy one because they have vanished and prices went through the roof for what you can find. If you can't get mags, ammo, reloading components and etc the rifle is practically worthless.


A 10/22 with some BX-25 mags and a lot of ammo sounds like the best bet for the OP and much more affordable than the same for an AR. Midway still has some BX-25 mags but they are limited to two mags per order.

MrMurphy
12-20-2012, 14:04
Gunlover probably wasn't born in '94.

Read those links.

While a detachable magazine fed rifle in a good caliber, preferably of military heritage is better than most options.... my recommendations:

First, get a Glock 17, not a 31. .357 Sig doesn't do anything 9mm +P won't except penetrate car bodies better. The 9mm is cheaper to shoot and more importantly, train with. ALL pistol rounds are fairly weak.

Second: Snag an AR if you can. If you can't, an AK, SKS, CETME, FAL would all do well (they're all very well tested in many wars) however, in the event of a ban, odds are, they're all affected.

Third: If that is the case, a used pump-action shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg 500) can generally be had for $200-300 or even less. An 18" shotgun is a serious mind changer at close range. It doesn't have the capacity of a rifle or the range, but at house distances, it's still a highly respectable instrument for stopping someone in their tracks. As long as the ammo lasts, you're good. And while birdshot is definitely not the best load for it, if a guy's not wearing heavy clothing a turkey load will seriously cause him to want to be elsewhere.

Add a used .30-30 or .357 Magnum lever action to that (anywhere from $250-450) and 200 rounds of ammo. Used together you have anything under 200 yards covered. They don't look as cool-guy as the modern stuff, but lever actions were the Civil War (and the Old West's) fighting rifles for a reason. They handle quickly, reload reasonably fast, and have good power and range for their size.

A WW2 surplus rifle (used Mauser, etc) would also "do" but recoil tends to be a bit harsh for new shooters, and ammo will never be cheap again, except for the Mosin-Nagants, since the Russian Army still uses that round in machine guns. You can pick up a Mosin for $150-200 and a spam can of 400 rounds and be about as prepared as most will ever be. Just be advised it kicks like a mule.

Even a used .22 rifle and a couple bricks of .22 will get it done if the shooter is intelligent and smart. Realistically, a .22 is never what I want in hand in the event of a riot, but it's better than a sharp stick, and a .22 LR through the lungs is how the Israelis persuade riot leaders they want to lead somewhere else, right now. It'll still kill someone, just might take several hits.

Obviously, an AR and a few thousand rounds is the better of most options (or the semiauto rifle of your choice) but they're not the ONLY option.

A trained user with a WW2 Mauser or Lee-Enfield is a serious threat to anyone, but so is a trained user with a sling and stone in the right circumstances (read your Bible). Get the best tools you can afford and find, commonality of parts and ammo being a good thing. In the end, training will be the best thing.

collim1
12-20-2012, 18:39
People defended themselves with 12g doubles and lever action rifles for a long time.

Justin1911
12-20-2012, 19:01
Second time I've heard preban striped lowers had to adhere to post ban regulations during the awb. Anyone have the exact text of the old law on this or a reputable source of info? Reason being I have several and it sure would help the op to just be able to buy a lower if he can find one. If this was in fact part of the old awb it would likely be in the new one (yes I'm of the belief a new stricter awb is coming). We made it just fine last time just paid more for mags and had rifles missing a few "evil" cosmetic features.

coooltom
12-21-2012, 01:34
Gunlover probably wasn't born in '94.

Read those links.

While a detachable magazine fed rifle in a good caliber, preferably of military heritage is better than most options.... my recommendations:

First, get a Glock 17, not a 31. .357 Sig doesn't do anything 9mm +P won't except penetrate car bodies better. The 9mm is cheaper to shoot and more importantly, train with. ALL pistol rounds are fairly weak.

Second: Snag an AR if you can. If you can't, an AK, SKS, CETME, FAL would all do well (they're all very well tested in many wars) however, in the event of a ban, odds are, they're all affected.

Third: If that is the case, a used pump-action shotgun (Remington 870 or Mossberg 500) can generally be had for $200-300 or even less. An 18" shotgun is a serious mind changer at close range. It doesn't have the capacity of a rifle or the range, but at house distances, it's still a highly respectable instrument for stopping someone in their tracks. As long as the ammo lasts, you're good. And while birdshot is definitely not the best load for it, if a guy's not wearing heavy clothing a turkey load will seriously cause him to want to be elsewhere.

Add a used .30-30 or .357 Magnum lever action to that (anywhere from $250-450) and 200 rounds of ammo. Used together you have anything under 200 yards covered. They don't look as cool-guy as the modern stuff, but lever actions were the Civil War (and the Old West's) fighting rifles for a reason. They handle quickly, reload reasonably fast, and have good power and range for their size.

A WW2 surplus rifle (used Mauser, etc) would also "do" but recoil tends to be a bit harsh for new shooters, and ammo will never be cheap again, except for the Mosin-Nagants, since the Russian Army still uses that round in machine guns. You can pick up a Mosin for $150-200 and a spam can of 400 rounds and be about as prepared as most will ever be. Just be advised it kicks like a mule.

Even a used .22 rifle and a couple bricks of .22 will get it done if the shooter is intelligent and smart. Realistically, a .22 is never what I want in hand in the event of a riot, but it's better than a sharp stick, and a .22 LR through the lungs is how the Israelis persuade riot leaders they want to lead somewhere else, right now. It'll still kill someone, just might take several hits.

Obviously, an AR and a few thousand rounds is the better of most options (or the semiauto rifle of your choice) but they're not the ONLY option.

A trained user with a WW2 Mauser or Lee-Enfield is a serious threat to anyone, but so is a trained user with a sling and stone in the right circumstances (read your Bible). Get the best tools you can afford and find, commonality of parts and ammo being a good thing. In the end, training will be the best thing.
Nice breakdown of alternate weapons, Murf! "Defensor Fortis"