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dbow
12-20-2012, 17:21
AR rifles are selling like wildfire for over $1000 per gun. Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Why would you buy a gun that you might not be able to use for hunting or shooting at all? A gun that would earn you a felony if you were caught shooting so much as a ****ing squirrel? Or buy a gun that will lose it's value the day you buy it.

Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.

vafish
12-20-2012, 17:26
well if your goal is to make money, you buy low and sell high. So now is the time to sell AR15's or any other slightly evil looking semi auto and their magazines.

However you are wrong on the hunting aspect. AR15's are legal for hunting in most states. Pennsylvania is the only one I know of that totally bans semi auto's for hunting.

Here in VA I can hunt squirrels with an AR15 and a 30 round mag if I want. For deer and bear the gun has to be at least .23 caliber. So I built a custom AR15 in .25-223 wildcat.

Here is a picture of my daughter hunting with it.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/vafish/Hunting/200111119.jpg

Electrikkoolaid
12-20-2012, 17:26
Because many people believe that during times of civil unrest or economic collapse, an evil black rile is the best tool to keep the balance of power between the governed. and the government. from shifting too sharply.

The rest remember the days of $100 Glock 17 mags and are speculating.

Pilotdude3407
12-20-2012, 17:29
They aren't retroactively banning ARs! While I don't think it is smart to pay double for guns and mags, I understand what is happening. Everyone is trying to flood the market with as many of these before a ban comes...if it does come. Also, a lot of people are trying to buy what's they can in hopes of turning it for a profit. If you buy it above the price to sell it even higher is a real gamble because if it doesn't go through and the prices settle down, then your investment is a flop. I personally got the 10 pack of PMags from brownells to stock up and really wasn't trying to resale but after seeing 5 PMags on gunbroker go for twice what I payed for 10, it really makes me think about letting 5 go. This is getting way out of hand anyway you look at it.

dkf
12-20-2012, 17:34
The .300blk, 6.5grendel, .458socom, .30ossm, .50 beuwolf, various wssm cartridges and other wildcats have all made the AR platform a more viable hunting weapon. It is not leagal to hunt with in my state as well as several others but I see the appeal.

It is just too bad there are too many people in this country who cannot see that punishing everyone for the actions of a few is highly stupid. That lack of thinking power is even more apparent with many of the fools that draft and pass legislation. This affects the gun industry because the people fear the worst and want to buy before its gone and/or you can't get it anymore.

dbow
12-20-2012, 18:32
Maybe it's just me but i'm also a little pissed about the fact that our gun industry has pushed the envelope as far as AR's are concerned. Last night (while i was cleaning my AR) i was watching gun channel tv and all i saw was these huge muscle bound dudes running and gunning, big **** women shooting as fast as they can, and fancy ammo commercials. To me that is not the profile of the AR. I much like the hunting pic of the little girl shooting her first deer with an AR. Instead we see "zombie" ammo commercials?! What the **** is that?

The gun industry has been selling these guns for a grand for the last 5 years so i don't see how one could make a profit. If you buy a gun for $1100, then it gets banned, who in their right mind would buy it for more? Mags i could see making a profit, but not guns.

nipperwolf
12-20-2012, 19:45
AR rifles are selling like wildfire for over $1000 per gun. Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Why would you buy a gun that you might not be able to use for hunting or shooting at all? A gun that would earn you a felony if you were caught shooting so much as a ****ing squirrel? Or buy a gun that will lose it's value the day you buy it.

Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.

There have a lot of ridiculous posts this week, but this one is near the top of the list. ;)

Ruggles
12-20-2012, 19:48
AR rifles are selling like wildfire for over $1000 per gun. Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Why would you buy a gun that you might not be able to use for hunting or shooting at all? A gun that would earn you a felony if you were caught shooting so much as a ****ing squirrel? Or buy a gun that will lose it's value the day you buy it.

Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.

Not many at all are predicting that ARs already in current ownership are going to be banned. Just like in 1994 the AWB will not be retroactive. Hunting with one is not gonna be a felony.

GSSF17
12-20-2012, 19:59
Everybody has their tinfoil hat on, right? :rofl:.

If you have not/could not see this (panic garbage) coming, then I can recommend a good set of binoculars for next time.

Mayhem like Me
12-20-2012, 20:09
I started buying in November because I knew that the first mass shooting would lead to this...It'snot about protecting people it's about establishing power and getting money so they can be re elected.

I'M Glockamolie
12-20-2012, 20:13
Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Uh, what? I bet my local gun shop would pay nicely for just about any AR used, as they could have sold it in about 3 seconds since every AR (and that's a LOT) that was in the store on Saturday is gone, save for a $2700 Les Baer. I bet I could get just about MSRP in trade in if I wanted to. Buuuuuuut I don't.

skeeter1959
12-20-2012, 20:28
AR rifles are selling like wildfire for over $1000 per gun. Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Why would you buy a gun that you might not be able to use for hunting or shooting at all? A gun that would earn you a felony if you were caught shooting so much as a ****ing squirrel? Or buy a gun that will lose it's value the day you buy it.

Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.

Poosie :rofl:

fuzzy03cls
12-20-2012, 20:38
Common Sense = Buy Now??
Hell no!

njl
12-20-2012, 20:42
If it's like the last AWB, they'll do their best to ban production or import of any more AR/AK/"scary assault looking" rifles for civilian ownership and magazines >10 rounds. All the stuff we currently have (or that was produced before the new law), remains civilian legal.

OTOH, with republicans still in control of the House, there's a chance a new AWB won't get passed the House...and then it's just business as usual.

Another aspect I haven't seen mentioned is if (as they're talking about) they ban 100 (or was it hundreds?) rifles by name, i.e. "Bushmaster", then I suspect that's going to bad news for employees of all the manufacturers that get banned by name. What do you think happens to a company when their customer base is cut from "everyone" to police and .mil contracts? Some will go out of business. Others will cut back considerably on staff. Worst economy since the Great Depression, but lets put a bunch more people out of work.

bmoore
12-20-2012, 21:32
I wasn't even gonna read this thread but I am so glad I did. That is some of the most goofball stuff I have heard in the last week. "Not even going to be able to use your rifle" Epic, look for the OP to be Keith Olberman and the Ed Show later.

Reswob
12-20-2012, 22:01
Common sense would have been to buy one 5 years ago if you wanted one...

Durden
12-20-2012, 22:14
AR rifles are selling like wildfire for over $1000 per gun. Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Why would you buy a gun that you might not be able to use for hunting or shooting at all? A gun that would earn you a felony if you were caught shooting so much as a ****ing squirrel? Or buy a gun that will lose it's value the day you buy it.

Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.


Really? Wow. Your LGS is screwing you hard. Use lube.

My FFL and I were speaking last night (he's also a friend of mine) and he told me he had buyers for either one of my ARs (a LMT w/SOPMOD or Colt 6920) for a minimum of $2000.

This guy is the go-to FFL in the area for hard to find items and special requests, and sells a metric ton load of firearms annually. He can't keep up with the calls and requests. He can't even get lowers or BCGs right now - he said this is 10x as insane as he's ever seen things.

He knew I almost certainly wouldn't sell, but wanted to relay that he literally can't find ARs right now and that there are a ton of law abiding, upstanding citizens who are clamoring to find an AR right now and willing to pay a lot of money for it since they view the politicians as opportunistic scumbags.

suburbanhillbilly
12-20-2012, 23:40
Common sense would have been to buy one 5 years ago if you wanted one...

Or build some...:whistling:

WinterWizard
12-21-2012, 01:32
I think people are buying like crazy because they want to be grandfathered in. Same reason they are buying mags like crazy. I doubt many are buying with the intention of re-selling and making a huge profit. They just want to have one. The administration is pushing hard on this. It's no secret anymore. We'll know in about a month what is going to go down. And if Obama announces that he will be pursuing a ban of any kind, don't expect to find an AR or hi-cap rifle of any kind – too late at that point. So buying right now, if you don't already have a rifle, is the smartest thing to do, within reason of course. But you're just a fool if you pay $2000 or $3000 for a $800 rifle. JMO.

mgs
12-21-2012, 06:24
Buy Now = Late to the Dance. There is not enough jail space for real bad people. They can't afford to house and feed the evil tax payers. No income = no new jails or registration schemes.

eracer
12-21-2012, 06:28
I am a horrible capitalist.

All the guns I own are ones I want to keep and pass down to my heirs.

I could probably make enough profit selling them during this panic phase to buy a nice sailboat.

I'll keep my guns.

fuzzy03cls
12-21-2012, 08:05
The big forums are some of the worst.....They really should not allow people reselling their items for double to triple the cost. With the sole purpose to make $ & extort people.
I can understand when stores do it as they have to buy inventory & will have to price hike to buy that inventory, but when people sit on 100 of pmags they have owned for a year then try to sucker people to pay $30+/mag.....
It creates a bad feeling among many.

Boot Stomper
12-21-2012, 08:25
I paid $799 for a Windham Weaponry SRC at Walmart on December 18th. Last one in the store. I seen a used Colt selling for $1,699.00 at a pawn shop. I'll pass at that price.

TangoFoxtrot
12-21-2012, 10:42
I got mine last year and have no intention of selling it or letting the government confiscate it....They can kiss my ...you know what!

Durden
12-21-2012, 11:22
I got mine last year and have no intention of selling it or letting the government confiscate it....They can kiss my ...you know what!

I've never purchased anything with the intent to resell it.

The current situation won't change this, no matter how high and irrational prices soar.

arushus
12-21-2012, 14:57
The big forums are some of the worst.....They really should not allow people reselling their items for double to triple the cost. With the sole purpose to make $ & extort people.
I can understand when stores do it as they have to buy inventory & will have to price hike to buy that inventory, but when people sit on 100 of pmags they have owned for a year then try to sucker people to pay $30+/mag.....
It creates a bad feeling among many.

REALLY? That is capitalism at its finest!!! Why sell something for twenty bucks, when I can sell it for forty and sell just as many??? One would have to be dumb not to take advantage of an opportunity to make more money. Let the market determine the price.
Look at it this way, with the prices being high, people that would normally buy ten or twelve, can only afford to buy three now. Thus, there is more to go around for the next guy. So instead of fewer people having lots of mags, everyone can have a couple...

JimIsland
12-21-2012, 15:01
There have a lot of ridiculous posts this week, but this one is near the top of the list. ;)

I was thinking the same thing:dunno:

WinterWizard
12-21-2012, 15:13
REALLY? That is capitalism at its finest!!! Why sell something for twenty bucks, when I can sell it for forty and sell just as many??? One would have to be dumb not to take advantage of an opportunity to make more money. Let the market determine the price.
Look at it this way, with the prices being high, people that would normally buy ten or twelve, can only afford to buy three now. Thus, there is more to go around for the next guy. So instead of fewer people having lots of mags, everyone can have a couple...

The prices are high because they are not available. Your logic is way off. Why do you think websites are "out of stock" on all the popular items?

The process is the opposite of what you are thinking. People bought everything up, supply went into the toilet, now demand is high and there is price raping going on. What you described is demand is high and supply is high, but prices are high anyway and this allows everyone to buy a few because they can only afford to buy a few flawed on every level.

Imagine a gas crisis, gas stations out of fuel or a line around the block or a gas purchase limit, say 1 gallon per customer. Then your neighbor offers to sell you 5 gallons of gas for $200. It's taking advantage of an unfortunate/stupid situation. It's never beneficial to society as a whole.

fuzzy03cls
12-21-2012, 15:22
ook at it this way, with the prices being high, people that would normally buy ten or twelve, can only afford to buy three now
For some of us we don't have much $ & can only get 2 or 3 over a few months & now I can't get anything.

arushus
12-21-2012, 17:08
The prices are high because they are not available. Your logic is way off. Why do you think websites are "out of stock" on all the popular items?

The process is the opposite of what you are thinking. People bought everything up, supply went into the toilet, now demand is high and there is price raping going on. What you described is demand is high and supply is high, but prices are high anyway and this allows everyone to buy a few because they can only afford to buy a few – flawed on every level.

Imagine a gas crisis, gas stations out of fuel or a line around the block or a gas purchase limit, say 1 gallon per customer. Then your neighbor offers to sell you 5 gallons of gas for $200. It's taking advantage of an unfortunate/stupid situation. It's never beneficial to society as a whole.

Every person doing what is best for them will lead to the best result for the market as a whole. - Economics 101

If supply and demand are both high, then they are in equilibrium, and the market produces a stable price. Which is not at all what I was describing. Prices went up, because the demand went up, obviously, and people are willing to pay that price, obviously, because there are none left. Nobody puts a gun to their head.

By the way, your gasoline analogy is WAY off base, apples and oranges. Everybody needs gas, it is a necessary commodity that helps drive our economic engine. Guns, ammo, and magazines, not so much, so they are far from being a similar comparison...very bad logic.

Im sorry sir, but your argument is the fallacy, however, I am perfectly content, as I hope you are as well, to agree to disagree. I have neither the inclination, energy, nor the time to give a discourse on college-level economics. (Notice I did not impugn your intelligence by calling it high school level economics, because it isn't, slightly more advanced than that).

In the interest of fairness, by all means, type out your retort, if you feel it necessary. I will not respond, as it will do neither of us any good. I doubt I can change your way of thinking, and I know you cannot change mine. As I said before, Im content to agree to disagree.

suburbanhillbilly
12-21-2012, 19:46
If I was a seller, good luck trying to dictate what my selling price will be. You are free to buy it or pass on it looking for a better deal down the road. That is free market capitalism.
To express a desire to control what price another person should be able to buy or sell at is anathema to the American way of life.


Having said that, why the hell didn't I buy more stuff sooner?:rofl:

MannyA
12-21-2012, 20:23
I am a horrible capitalist.

All the guns I own are ones I want to keep and pass down to my heirs.

I could probably make enough profit selling them during this panic phase to buy a nice sailboat.

I'll keep my guns.

Maybe their most important inheritance!

arushus
12-21-2012, 20:23
If I was a seller, good luck trying to dictate what my selling price will be. You are free to buy it or pass on it looking for a better deal down the road. That is free market capitalism.
To express a desire to control what price another person should be able to buy or sell at is anathema to the American way of life.


Having said that, why the hell didn't I buy more stuff sooner?:rofl:

Very good post, well said.

slick slidestop
12-21-2012, 20:35
AR rifles are selling like wildfire for over $1000 per gun. Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Why would you buy a gun that you might not be able to use for hunting or shooting at all? A gun that would earn you a felony if you were caught shooting so much as a ****ing squirrel? Or buy a gun that will lose it's value the day you buy it.

Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.


This is exactly what they are hoping for.:upeyes:

HauntedAlabama
12-21-2012, 21:35
A couple of years back I bought a Bushmaster to tinker with, liked it, but decided early this year I wanted a high quality AR so I traded the Bushmaster and researched, asked questions here, and bought a Daniel Defense. I ran into Academy Friday night to grab some Pmags not because of panic but because I had put off getting any extra ones and thought now is the time. There were 3 left on the hook and a ton of people buying ammo and guns. Saturday morning I walked into my main lgs and they had a full inventory but all the guys that know me said the run is coming. I agreed, looked over what they had, argued against buying a Rock River(they are in love with that thing), talked myself out of the Sig, and remembered what everyone on every forum says and went with a Colt. It was their normal price, $1,199.99, so I did the form, paid, and left. After looking at Gunbroker and watching the folks at the stores close to the house I am kicking myself for not buying three. I have wanted the SCAR 17 but it is just way out of my comfort zone in price, had I been thinking investment and not I just want to have two ARs in case one ever breaks I could have sold one and bought the SCAR. I was tempted to part ways with the new Colt to get the SCAR but the shop sold it last night. I am content for now, did not overpay, and planned on buying or building another AR soon any ways so whatever happens happens and I am sitting pretty.

dbow
12-21-2012, 21:55
This is exactly what they are hoping for.:upeyes:

I'm sure there are 10 guys right behind me taking up my spot.

Nothing against AR's, love the platform but it's not practical for my hunting needs. I don't care about the government or the sale or resale of guns. I need a functional weapon that is easy to carry, easy to feed, and easy repair and maintain. There is not an AR made that will beat out a bolt action in those areas.

After spending the last 3 years in the AR world I believe it's a lot of money to spend for a gun that really isn't that great. The money i've spent on my one AR gun and accessories could have purchased me 3 bolt action walnut stock guns. Is 1 AR worth 3 Bolt actions? Not in my mind, not anymore.

Call me what you want. I don't need an AR to get my "Man" card renewed. I make my decisions based on functionality, cost effectiveness. People buying AR's today are making their decisions based on FEAR followed by wrongfully placed Pride. This is what they want you to do if you ask me.

If the world ends, or the government tries to kill your family and you feel that a 223 Ar15 will save you, well, i guess I'm missing something. You guys enjoy shooting your zombies, I'm going hunting.

CanMan
12-21-2012, 21:59
I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts.

I like AR-15s. I have a few. My philosophy on ARs is if a few is good, more is better. Let me know what you're asking for yours.

SIGlock
12-21-2012, 22:12
Sounds like a big ole pissing match to me. I'm selling my AR, and buying bolts. It ain't worth it.

Yeah, sure. :yawn:

And the sun rises on the west, too.

Gunny Lingus
12-21-2012, 22:15
Resale of AR guns now is about HALF of what they are selling for because the gun stores know that AWB is a possibility.

Go to Buds and watch their auctions or another auction site and see what they are going for. You might be surprised.

WoodenPlank
12-21-2012, 22:47
I'm sure there are 10 guys right behind me taking up my spot.

Nothing against AR's, love the platform but it's not practical for my hunting needs. I don't care about the government or the sale or resale of guns. I need a functional weapon that is easy to carry, easy to feed, and easy repair and maintain. There is not an AR made that will beat out a bolt action in those areas.

After spending the last 3 years in the AR world I believe it's a lot of money to spend for a gun that really isn't that great. The money i've spent on my one AR gun and accessories could have purchased me 3 bolt action walnut stock guns. Is 1 AR worth 3 Bolt actions? Not in my mind, not anymore.

Call me what you want. I don't need an AR to get my "Man" card renewed. I make my decisions based on functionality, cost effectiveness. People buying AR's today are making their decisions based on FEAR followed by wrongfully placed Pride. This is what they want you to do if you ask me.

If the world ends, or the government tries to kill your family and you feel that a 223 Ar15 will save you, well, i guess I'm missing something. You guys enjoy shooting your zombies, I'm going hunting.

That may fit your priorities, but not mine. My SBR is my primary home defense weapon - something a bolt action is quite unsuitable for. My 16" is a general purpose carbine - it can be used to defend my home, kill some of the local pig population (especially in groups), punch paper at 300 yards, and be used for carbine or 3-gun matches.

Your bolt action may work well for you in place of an AR, but my ARs do things for me that a bolt action will not.

WinterWizard
12-22-2012, 08:58
Every person doing what is best for them will lead to the best result for the market as a whole. - Economics 101

That is precisely my point. People are not doing what is "best for them." They are making foolish buying decisions and spending more than is fair but in return getting something that may not be available later. It's a question of ethics and politics, not economics. The economic mantra of this country is make as much profit as possible and screw the customer. The well-being of the common man doesn't factor in, as is evidenced by the falling quality of life amongst our middle class.

But of course, we will have to agree to disagree. I am cool with that.

glock_19guy1983
12-22-2012, 09:03
People, please stop feeding the TROLL!!!!

engineer151515
12-22-2012, 09:07
Don't believe for one minute that this is gonna be your Daddy's AWB.


Liberals are going to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.

That includes a total ban on (what they term) "assault weapons", a total ban on "high capacity" magazines, taxes on ammunition, registration, training requirements, recorded gun and ammunition sales, etc. Absolutely no grandfathering.

And with the overwhelming sales of AR's in progress, the Federal govt has a very current list of owners and may well inquire as to the whereabouts of that brand new rifle (or stripped lower) you just purchased. I wouldn't surprise me if a box appeared on your tax forms where you have to state (under penalty of prosecution) that you have turned in your evil black rifle - cross referenced with the SSN you provided on form 4473

Glockdude1
12-22-2012, 09:11
Poosie :rofl:

:rofl:

engineer151515
12-22-2012, 09:18
Nothing against AR's, love the platform but it's not practical for my hunting needs. I don't care about the government or the sale or resale of guns. I need a functional weapon that is easy to carry, easy to feed, and easy repair and maintain. ....

Maybe you should care. The government is in the process of formulating legislation dictating if you should own a rifle that is functional, easy to carry, easy to feed, easy to repair and maintain. And the results may not be as predictable as you desire.

Leigh
12-22-2012, 09:19
...cross referenced with the SSN you provided on form 4473

Incorrect. Your SSN is is not a requirement on a 4473.
In fact, I have never filled out that section, EVER.

As to the Federal Government/ATF having a 'list' of what you purchased, they do not. They have NOTHING in terms of paperwork (excluding documentation of simultaneous multiple handgun purchses).

Can ATF obtain 4473's directly from a FFL dealer?
Sure.

Would it be extremely costly and time-consuming?
You better believe it.

engineer151515
12-22-2012, 09:33
Incorrect. Your SSN is is not a requirement on a 4473.
In fact, I have never filled out that section, EVER.

As to the Federal Government/ATF having a 'list' of what you purchased, they do not. They have NOTHING in terms of paperwork (excluding documentation of simultaneous multiple handgun purchses).

Can ATF obtain 4473's directly from a FFL dealer?
Sure.

Would it be extremely costly and time-consuming?
You better believe it.

1. I know what is "required". How many have complied? I would predict majority.

2. I remember 2004. ATF was suppose to dispose of background check records in 90 days. Mysteriously, they had records on file longer than that. Got in trouble. Now, suppose to dispose of the records in 24 hours. Of course, these are the "gun walkers" with that little problem of shipping guns illegally to Mexico. So, I personally think they have a bit of a credibility problem. But I'm probably just grown into an old conspiracy nut. But I do admire your faith.

3. I guess you've never heard of these guys. Costly? Do they look like they need the money?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center