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Airborne Renegade
12-20-2012, 20:06
I am stationed out of Fort Bragg, NC. The state is an open carry state which is nice but I met a guy who was arrested under a law called "terror to the public". According to him he was open carrying a 44 mag revolver at a Walmart when somebody called the police on him. Apparently he said the person who called was frightened by the fact that he was displaying a pistol. Is he just blowing smoke at me or is this a real thing. If anyone has any insight on this I would appreciate it. I have open carried almost everyday I've been here and I have not had any issues but don't want to risk arrest either.

Deaf Smith
12-20-2012, 20:55
The cops could cite you for 'disturbing the peace' also in many states.

Deaf

Louisville Glocker
12-20-2012, 21:19
You could be arrested (unlikely), but charges wouldn't stick. You're allowed to open carry. Other behavior could be introduced, but as long as you were behaving normally, they've got nothing on you.

Airborne Renegade
12-20-2012, 21:32
Yes I suppose they could but would they with no reason? I mean if it is legal to open carry why would they harass if you are not doing anything to deserve it? I have never had any issues with the police and I am just wondering if this guys story could have really happened in the manner he says it did.

kirgi08
12-20-2012, 22:10
It's a real law GATTTOTP.Open carry isn't prohibited sts,just not expressly allowed.'08.

toshbar
12-20-2012, 22:38
It's a real law GATTTOTP.Open carry isn't prohibited sts,just not expressly allowed.'08.
It is as of Dec. 1, 2011:
14‑415.11
C(3)
"As provided in G.S. 14‑269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State‑owned rest area, at any State‑owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State‑owned hunting and fishing reservation."

I've been open carrying since I was 18 here in NC. Only once have I had the police called on me(that I know of), and that went well. If it is holstered, there is zero chance of you being convicted of GATTOP.

toshbar
12-20-2012, 22:42
Yes I suppose they could but would they with no reason? I mean if it is legal to open carry why would they harass if you are not doing anything to deserve it? I have never had any issues with the police and I am just wondering if this guys story could have really happened in the manner he says it did.
There is a missing piece of the story I guarantee.

Cochese
12-20-2012, 22:53
I think the term you want is "armed to the terror of the public."

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kirgi08
12-20-2012, 23:14
It is as of Dec. 1, 2011:
14‑415.11
C(3)
"As provided in G.S. 14‑269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State‑owned rest area, at any State‑owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State‑owned hunting and fishing reservation."

I've been open carrying since I was 18 here in NC. Only once have I had the police called on me(that I know of), and that went well. If it is holstered, there is zero chance of you being convicted of GATTOP.

What I meant is certain areas follow the letter of the law and certain don't IE GATTTOTP.I've never seen it charged in WNC,whereas it happens more frequently in the eastern side of the state.I'm a OC advocate.'08.

Airborne Renegade
12-20-2012, 23:40
Toshbar, I am also starting to believe there is more to the story than he is telling me. I think if your doing the right thing then all is good. If you don't mind me asking how exactly did it go when you had the police called on you? Also, we're they called by a nosy citizen for no GOOD reason?

HarleyGuy
12-21-2012, 00:51
Even though Michigan is an "open carry" state, I have never carried openly and never intend to.

However, I do support the law as it does make it harder for an overzealous cop, or prosecutor to screw with us if our gun should be accidentally exposed.

We also have a contradiction of laws which allows open carry in some areas, if the the person has a CPL, but the same person cannot carry his/her gun concealed there. :dunno:

As you can imagine this is confusing and carrying in these areas is not worth risk of being arrested, charged and or convicted.

Airborne Renegade
12-21-2012, 07:03
There are a lot of different stipulations on cc and oc. It also changes every ten miles of distance you cover. I am a fan of both styles of carry. I PREFER to cc only to keep nosy bystanders minding their own business and out of mine. I also don't mind oc. Is a matter of fact I love to oc my glock 21, I mean come on would you start something with a dude that you knew for a fact had at least 13 rounds of .45 jhp?? I also saw a man and his wife the other day at SAMs club and their son (who I'm assuming was of age) was open carrying a glock 19 in a drop leg holster. I commended the couple and they commended me back. It's almost like a brotherhood. I love to carry and I personally think of handgun as American Express, I never leave home without it!!

Lior
12-21-2012, 07:26
About open carry and concealed carry, I'd try to work out the mood of the place and respect people's views about firearms before open carrying, even if totally legal.

Some idiots think that guns = crime, and unfortunately they reproduce (the idiots, that is, not the guns).

JackMac
12-21-2012, 08:09
"going armed to the terror of the public" in NC is not statutory law, but common law. Plus the weapon has to be "unusual".....like a LAW rocket launcher, RPG, etc. Standard rifles, shotguns, handguns, do not count. A good lawyer should be able to make that charge go away by dismissal or not guilty.

toshbar
12-21-2012, 08:13
Toshbar, I am also starting to believe there is more to the story than he is telling me. I think if your doing the right thing then all is good. If you don't mind me asking how exactly did it go when you had the police called on you? Also, we're they called by a nosy citizen for no GOOD reason?
It was the day the tornado went through downtown Raleigh and Sanford about 1.5 years ago. I was eating at Sonic in Siler City with a friend and Siler City PD rolls up. One officer at first, then another came. Everything went fine. We talked about everything except guns.

He explained that someone had called complaining that I had a gun and it 'was showing'....whatever that means. Let alone, a few cars down there was a truck with a tasmanian pit bull terrier that i was 99.7% sure was going to jump out of the bed. Nah, lets worry about the guy eating dinner just like everyone else........:faint:

toshbar
12-21-2012, 08:16
Town of Cary does prohibit open carry on streets, sidewalks, and other public property, but private property and businesses are okay as long as they aren't posted.

Durham has some dumb minimum overall length requirement for OC. I think it's 6" or so.


I am part of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus at NC State and one of our members actually was arrested 'for carrying a concealed weapon' while he was clearly open carrying. He paid $3k to a lawyer and got the charges dropped, but I don't understand how it would NOT have been dropped as soon as the DA heard the account of the officers. Probably would have went something like "We showed up on scene and saw a man with a pistol on his hip......" DUHHHH

Citroen
12-21-2012, 09:51
Ranger, thank you for your service! I was born at Fort Bragg and have lots of good memories there.

I believe that "going armed to the terror of the public" is statutory law. Been on the books for many years but the elements required for arrest are rather narrowly defined. If you do some research I think you will find that, while you might be bothered by a police officer, in order for a conviction, case law requires an "intent" to terrorize and, strictly read, the law states "on the highways" - but I am speaking from memory as it has been a long time since that class.
John
Charlotte, NC

Bruce M
12-21-2012, 10:01
...
As you can imagine this is confusing and carrying in these areas is not worth risk of being arrested, charged and or convicted.

As has been said in this forum before "open carry when and where appropriate." That probably means, in at least some cases, not just where we think it is appropriate but also where the community at large thinks it is appropriate or at least not unusual.


About open carry and concealed carry, I'd try to work out the mood of the place and respect people's views about firearms before open carrying, even if totally legal.

.... A better way to say what I was trying to say :wavey:

"going armed to the terror of the public" in NC is not statutory law, but common law. Plus the weapon has to be "unusual".....like a LAW rocket launcher, RPG, etc. Standard rifles, shotguns, handguns, do not count. A good lawyer should be able to make that charge go away by dismissal or not guilty.

I would have guessed that when an actual arrest has been made that there needs to be an actual statute as opposed to common law. Also wonder if the "unusual" part deals with the total circumstances and not just the type of weapon. Presuming that rocket launchers may not have been around when common law addressed this issue.

A good lawyer probably can make the charge be dropped. Question that comes to mind is how much does a good lawyer cost.

...I am part of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus at NC State and one of our members actually was arrested 'for carrying a concealed weapon' while he was clearly open carrying. He paid $3k to a lawyer and got the charges dropped, but I don't understand how it would NOT have been dropped as soon as the DA heard the account of the officers. ......"

3000 sounds like a bargain for a criminal defense. But it still sounds like alot of money. I would want to avoid the expense and the stress.

kirgi08
12-21-2012, 14:40
Town of Cary does prohibit open carry on streets, sidewalks, and other public property, but private property and businesses are okay as long as they aren't posted.

Durham has some dumb minimum overall length requirement for OC. I think it's 6" or so.


I am part of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus at NC State and one of our members actually was arrested 'for carrying a concealed weapon' while he was clearly open carrying. He paid $3k to a lawyer and got the charges dropped, but I don't understand how it would NOT have been dropped as soon as the DA heard the account of the officers. Probably would have went something like "We showed up on scene and saw a man with a pistol on his hip......" DUHHHH

BTDT,got charged CCW while the pistol was in the car and I was helping a handi-capped customer.$800 later it gets dropped and I get my pistol back.'08. :rant:

NEOH212
12-22-2012, 00:26
The cops could cite you for 'disturbing the peace' also in many states.

Deaf

Which is a load of crap. That shouldn't even be permitted. If OC is a legal activity in that state, he person doing the OC shouldn't be hassled.

And yet another reason I CC! :supergrin:

ashecht
12-22-2012, 06:46
Which is a load of crap. That shouldn't even be permitted. If OC is a legal activity in that state, he person doing the OC shouldn't be hassled.

And yet another reason I CC! :supergrin:

I have oc'd on occasion here in the Charlotte city limits over the last 2-3 years and never a problem. I do it on quick runs to supermarket, etc. the only time I was ever approached, was on line in Walmart when the uniformed Leo behind me began asking what I carried, ammo, where I shot,etc. end result was him giving me his card so We could go shoot together some time. Otherwise, I don't make a deal out of it and nobody else does. A few glances maybe, but nothing else. But I don't make a habit of it cause I know these of averages will catch up with me!

toshbar
12-23-2012, 09:12
case law requires an "intent" to terrorize and, strictly read, the law states "on the highways" - but I am speaking from memory as it has been a long time since that class.
John
Charlotte, NC
This is correct. I recall my New Bern PD buddy showing me his quick statute reference book a few years back and remember reading this exact thing regarding intent.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 13:33
Just because OC is legal doesn't mean that one will not terrorize a person who only sees guns on TV being used criminally. CCW would solve this little problem.

kirgi08
12-23-2012, 13:42
Folk need ta deal with the fact that folk that OC are not planning on killing them.'08.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 13:45
Folk need ta deal with the fact that folk that OC are not planning on killing them.'08.

So true. I mean, do they freak out when a uniformed cop walks by?

jbailey8
12-23-2012, 13:48
I prefer cc, but I frequently oc. Since returning to Virginia in March, after living out if the state for six years, I've noticed a lot of people open carrying. Its inspiring. I like to think that I live in a gun friendly city in a gun friendly state.

On a side note... On Wednesday I went with my BIL to a barber shop to get his hair cut. I was sitting there minding my own business when one of the barbers says, "Hey man, I just noticed you had a pistol. If you want to put it in you're car, that's fine, but I'm a convicted felon and I can't be around that."

I went and sat in the car to not worry him.

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SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 13:53
Convicted felons can be around firearms, just as long as they don't touch them.

jbailey8
12-23-2012, 14:14
Convicted felons can be around firearms, just as long as they don't touch them.Yeah, I know that, but he asked me to leave. Anything short of that would be trespassing.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 14:44
Yeah, I know that, but he asked me to leave. Anything short of that would be trespassing.


Sorry, I forgot about trespassing. :upeyes:

kirgi08
12-23-2012, 14:51
Perception.'08.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 14:53
Perception.'08.

My crippling bicycle accident happened in 2008.

dukeblue91
12-26-2012, 08:50
I OC frequently here in Raleigh and never had gotten stopped or questioned by a Leo.
Other then maybe as a BTW what gun do you carry or where do you go shooting.
I do sometimes get strange looks from people in stores or Starbucks but that's about it.

Bill Lumberg
12-29-2012, 06:32
I'm all about folks carrying openly where appropriate or where it's the only legal way they can carry. But gratuitous open carry will always leave a carrier more vulnerable to a simple or serious interruption in their day. As previous posters have noted, more to the story, if there's even an actual story rather than just a tall tale.

SCmasterblaster
12-29-2012, 09:01
You could be arrested (unlikely), but charges wouldn't stick. You're allowed to open carry. Other behavior could be introduced, but as long as you were behaving normally, they've got nothing on you.

I suppose that the WalMart has to have a sign at the entrance that prohibits guns.

toshbar
12-29-2012, 22:18
I suppose that the WalMart has to have a sign at the entrance that prohibits guns.
Even if they do have a sign, you will not be charged of GATTOP. It will be trespassing.

cesaros
12-29-2012, 23:10
Does this also apply to little white women who are scared of large black men?

blackjack
12-30-2012, 05:42
I prefer cc, but I frequently oc. Since returning to Virginia in March, after living out if the state for six years, I've noticed a lot of people open carrying. Its inspiring. I like to think that I live in a gun friendly city in a gun friendly state.

On a side note... On Wednesday I went with my BIL to a barber shop to get his hair cut. I was sitting there minding my own business when one of the barbers says, "Hey man, I just noticed you had a pistol. If you want to put it in you're car, that's fine, but I'm a convicted felon and I can't be around that."

I went and sat in the car to not worry him.



I'd ask him if he disclosed that felony when he applied for his state barber license as there are states that do not allow such licensure with a felony conviction.

As regards trespassing, if he's the manager or owner then that applies. You refer to him as "one of the barbers" so it could be he's just renting the chair. Since you weren't getting a haircut, I can see that going to the car was a good choice.

No worries when I go to the barber since he's an FFL and I've noticed the holster under his smock.

SCmasterblaster
12-30-2012, 13:20
Even if they do have a sign, you will not be charged of GATTOP. It will be trespassing.

What again is GATTOP? Some leftist term?

kirgi08
12-30-2012, 13:30
East of Charlotte.'08.

SCmasterblaster
12-30-2012, 13:43
What again is GATTOP? Some leftist term?

I found the answer earlier in this thread:

"going armed to the terror of the public"

Bren
12-30-2012, 13:49
I am stationed out of Fort Bragg, NC. The state is an open carry state which is nice but I met a guy who was arrested under a law called "terror to the public". According to him he was open carrying a 44 mag revolver at a Walmart when somebody called the police on him. Apparently he said the person who called was frightened by the fact that he was displaying a pistol. Is he just blowing smoke at me or is this a real thing. If anyone has any insight on this I would appreciate it. I have open carried almost everyday I've been here and I have not had any issues but don't want to risk arrest either.

Yes, Going Armed to the Terror of the People is a North Carolina law, of sorts.

Let's consult what Ft. Bragg has to say about it:

http://www.bragg.army.mil/directorates/DES/pmo/Documents/NCFireArmsLaws.pdf
6. GOING ARMED TO THE TERROR OF THE PEOPLE
By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court has said that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

That seems to say NC is not an open carry state after all.

Here in KY, you can't be charged with a crime based on common law - all offinses are spelled out in a statute or they don't exist. Many northeatern states, and apparently a few southeastern states, follow a more old-fashioned approach.

SCmasterblaster
12-30-2012, 13:55
Yes, Going Armed to the Terror of the People is a North Carolina law, of sorts.

Let's consult what Ft. Bragg has to say about it:



That seems to say NC is not an open carry state after all.

Here in KY, you can't be charged with a crime based on common law - all offinses are spelled out in a statute or they don't exist. Many northeatern states, and apparently a few southeastern states, follow a more old-fashioned approach.

To quote the NC law - "for the purpose of terrifying others"

Now I OC daily here in VT, but I don't go out daily to "terrifying others," I am just picking up my delivered newspaper.

Bren
12-30-2012, 14:07
To quote the NC law - "for the purpose of terrifying others"

Now I OC daily here in VT, but I don't go out daily to "terrifying others," I am just picking up my delivered newspaper.

The police don't have to read your mind to determine your purpose, they can assume it, at the very low level of probable cause, based on your conduct...such as wearing a gun in public.

SCmasterblaster
12-30-2012, 14:11
The police don't have to read your mind to determine your purpose, they can assume it, at the very low level of probable cause, based on your conduct...such as wearing a gun in public.

Then the Police have too much authority . . . . .

Bren
12-30-2012, 17:47
Then the Police have too much authority . . . . .

So you're saying mind-reading should be required before they can make any arrest, since anything bigger than a traffic violation requires a mental state?

Or are you saying all crimes should be strict liability and they should be able to arrest AND convict you, regardless of your mental state.

Those look like the only alternatives, to me.

How about you, through your elected officals, don't make stupid laws and then hire policemen to enforce them? That way, you won't have to complain about them doing it.

SCmasterblaster
12-31-2012, 11:57
The police don't have to read your mind to determine your purpose, they can assume it, at the very low level of probable cause, based on your conduct...such as wearing a gun in public.

I go out to my doorstep every morning to get my newspaper. I am confident that I do not scare anyone.

toshbar
12-31-2012, 17:02
Whether or not you scare anyone is not the question. The statute specifically requires intent to be convicted.

wprebeck
12-31-2012, 19:09
Convicted felons can be around firearms, just as long as they don't touch them.

Why is it that you make such blanket statements, when you have no idea of what you speak?

KY law on the subject -
(1) A person is guilty of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon when he possesses, manufactures, or transports a firearm when he has been convicted of a felony, as defined by the laws of the jurisdiction in which he was convicted, in any state or federal court and has not:
(a) Been granted a full pardon by the Governor or by the President of the United States;
(b) Been granted relief by the United States Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended.


http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/527-00/040.PDF


Simply being the driver of a vehicle in which the firearm is located would violate my state's law. I'll let you know how the trial goes, since I hooked a felon on probation for robbery last year on this charge, and he's going to try and argue it wasn't his gun. That's not until March, though, and with any luck, may establish a bit of case law.

SCmasterblaster
01-01-2013, 09:46
Why is it that you make such blanket statements, when you have no idea of what you speak?

KY law on the subject -
(1) A person is guilty of possession of a firearm by a convicted felon when he possesses, manufactures, or transports a firearm when he has been convicted of a felony, as defined by the laws of the jurisdiction in which he was convicted, in any state or federal court and has not:
(a) Been granted a full pardon by the Governor or by the President of the United States;
(b) Been granted relief by the United States Secretary of the Treasury pursuant to the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended.


http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/527-00/040.PDF


Simply being the driver of a vehicle in which the firearm is located would violate my state's law. I'll let you know how the trial goes, since I hooked a felon on probation for robbery last year on this charge, and he's going to try and argue it wasn't his gun. That's not until March, though, and with any luck, may establish a bit of case law.

Sorry, my mistake. :cool: