Boehner Loses Support- Fiscal Cliff Here We Come [Archive] - Glock Talk

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czsmithGT
12-21-2012, 05:15
Obama screwed us but Boehner gets the blame. He thought he could negotiate with a slug and found out otherwise.

Ohio Rep (R) Steven La Tourette, supporting Boehner, says the same group of 40 or so Republican "chuckle heads" in the House who have messed things up all year are the bad guys. I don't know, they probably aren't any more open to negotiation than Obama. Trouble was, Obama is a narcissistic SOB and he knew he held all the cards- do nothing and he gets everything he wants.

Whoever is to blame for this farce I can see my taxes will be going up real soon now. And no, I'm not a millionaire or billionaire.

snerd
12-21-2012, 10:46
About $2500 per year more in taxes for more than 100 million taxpayers. Why do you think Obama doesn't care if we go over the cliff? That is money he can put to good use.

beforeobamabans
12-21-2012, 10:50
Boehner botched the entire handling of this situation. He needs to be replaced.

snerd
12-21-2012, 10:51
Boehner botched the entire handling of this situation. He needs to be replaced.
Now I can understand what all the crying was about upon his ascension to the top seat.

Ruble Noon
12-21-2012, 10:52
The fiscal cliff, doing what congress has failed to do, cut spending.

Sharkey
12-21-2012, 11:01
The Feds refuse to cut spending so I say we the people do it for them. Yeah Boehner should not be Speaker but the blame rests solely with O and his dem party in congress that couldn't pass a budget since when?
Of course the 51% that voted for O don't see it that way but they are sucking the teat too

sheriff733
12-21-2012, 11:17
The fiscal cliff, doing what congress has failed to do, cut spending.

This.

Jonesee
12-21-2012, 11:27
About $2500 per year more in taxes for more than 100 million taxpayers. Why do you think Obama doesn't care if we go over the cliff? That is money he can put to good use.


It will cost me much, much more than that in taxes. in addition to what i am losing in the market right now.

I've been blessed where income is concerned. I've been very, very lucky. The Repubs making a stand on principal is going to cost me 10-20 times what the proposal would cost me. Bunch of damn idiots. Vote them all out of office (dem and Rep) and start with Boehner.

And now they are home for the holidays. I will be working every day but Christmas because busness never stops. If a business faced the same dilemma the govt faces I can assure you, the key execs would not even take Christmas day off.

Congress is a bunch of Prima Donnas that don't care about the good of the country. They just care about making the other side look bad.

Boehner is an idiot, but he put a workable band aid on the looming cliff crisis. The party left him hanging out to dry. Bad decision for the repubs this time.

I'm irate. The party that has always protected my interests has now left me with a looming tax bill that I am not comfortable mentioning in public.

A bunch of damn morons.
Fire them all and start anew.


I will quit ranting now, thanks for listening.

GAFinch
12-21-2012, 11:29
MSNBC is already bashing the Tea Party for refusing to accept Barry's "reasonable" compromise, ignoring the fact that he keeps demanding they remove the debt ceiling.

Tango 1Zero
12-21-2012, 11:30
Somebody tell me why we pay these *******s????

GAFinch
12-21-2012, 11:32
Things to remember before bashing Republicans:

-Not a single Democrat in the House said they'd vote for Plan B.
-Reid vowed to block a vote in the Senate.
-Barry vowed to veto the bill.

sheriff733
12-21-2012, 11:36
Hi ho, hi ho, and off the cliff we go.

At least this will force spending cuts.

Jonesee
12-21-2012, 11:36
Things to remember before bashing Republicans:

-Not a single Democrat in the House said they'd vote for Plan B.
-Reid vowed to block a vote in the Senate.
-Barry vowed to veto the bill.


Republicans control the house. It should have been a shoe-in. It didn't take a single dem vote to pass.

At least vote it and send it on.
The old adage "Lead, Follow, or Get the hell out of the way comes to mind.

The House Repubs can't even agree among themselves.
Boehner cannot lead. Vote him out and give someone else a shot.


By ALL accounts, the concensus is the cliff will throw the economy into another recession. These idiots (dem and rep) aren't looking at the macro picture. They are too busy trying to score points at the other side's expense. They should ALWAYS act in the best interest of the nation. A recession is NEVER in the best interests of the nation.

Ruble Noon
12-21-2012, 11:46
Republicans control the house. It should have been a shoe-in. It didn't take a single dem vote to pass.

At least vote it and send it on.
The old adage "Lead, Follow, or Get the hell out of the way comes to mind.

The House Repubs can't even agree among themselves.
Boehner cannot lead. Vote him out and give someone else a shot.


By ALL accounts, the concensus is the cliff will throw the economy into another recession. These idiots (dem and rep) aren't looking at the macro picture. They are too busy trying to score points at the other side's expense. They should ALWAYS act in the best interest of the nation. A recession is NEVER in the best interests of the nation.

Everyone remain calm. They are just giving us our demanded political theater. A deal will be cut, the cliff averted and congress will continue to spend us into oblivion.

GAFinch
12-21-2012, 12:09
By ALL accounts, the concensus is the cliff will throw the economy into another recession. These idiots (dem and rep) aren't looking at the macro picture. They are too busy trying to score points at the other side's expense. They should ALWAYS act in the best interest of the nation. A recession is NEVER in the best interests of the nation.

Yes, a recession is bad, but what do you think will happen when we reach the point that interest on our debt gets so high that we default on our debt? The Plan B bill doesn't meaningfully attack our $1 trillion deficit...all it does is acknowledge the Democrat narrative that tax cuts, not unfunded spending, is the cause of our economic problems. When the debt cliff hits, conservatives and their tax cuts will be blamed...meaning the only solution left is more socialism/progressivism.

certifiedfunds
12-21-2012, 12:14
It will cost me much, much more than that in taxes. in addition to what i am losing in the market right now.

I've been blessed where income is concerned. I've been very, very lucky. The Repubs making a stand on principal is going to cost me 10-20 times what the proposal would cost me. Bunch of damn idiots. Vote them all out of office (dem and Rep) and start with Boehner.

And now they are home for the holidays. I will be working every day but Christmas because busness never stops. If a business faced the same dilemma the govt faces I can assure you, the key execs would not even take Christmas day off.

Congress is a bunch of Prima Donnas that don't care about the good of the country. They just care about making the other side look bad.

Boehner is an idiot, but he put a workable band aid on the looming cliff crisis. The party left him hanging out to dry. Bad decision for the repubs this time.

I'm irate. The party that has always protected my interests has now left me with a looming tax bill that I am not comfortable mentioning in public.

A bunch of damn morons.
Fire them all and start anew.


I will quit ranting now, thanks for listening.

Heya Jonesee. Join the club.

TxGun
12-21-2012, 13:18
Obama realy does NOT want to cut spending...which is why his "spending cuts' are so vague and "downstream". We'll never get to them. He simply wants more tax revenue to spend. And he's proven definitively what an accomplished spender he is...absolutely the best we've ever seen, LOL. Raising taxes on people making $250K and up is the wrong course. If taxes have to be raised, $1 million and up would be better. Too many small business owners will be impacted at the $250K bar and their reaction will, of course, be to freeze hiring at best, but more likely begin layoffs. Obama and his people love to portray capital gains taxes as "income taxes" when talking about "the rich". He wants you to think that paying taxes a 2nd time (capital gains) at a lower rate is unfair, neglecting to mention that somebody paid income taxes the 1st time around on the same money. Not saying there aren't too many loopholes, used by rich Demos and rich Republicans alike, however government spending is clearly the real problem, not tax revenue. The federal government is the most wasteful, least efficient, most extravagant money-eating engine ever devised by the mind and machinations of man.

certifiedfunds
12-21-2012, 13:24
Taxes don't have to be raised. It would even be counter productive

Chronos
12-21-2012, 14:44
By ALL accounts, the concensus is the cliff will throw the economy into another recession. These idiots (dem and rep) aren't looking at the macro picture. They are too busy trying to score points at the other side's expense. They should ALWAYS act in the best interest of the nation. A recession is NEVER in the best interests of the nation.

Think about this for a minute. It's been 4 full years since 2008, enough for a full business cycle and is a predictable time for another recession anyway. People like Jim Rogers have been predicting 2013 as a recession year for a long time now, and that it will be at least as bad as 2008, as the system is now leveraged even more heavily than it was in 2008.

The reason Obama obviously "wants to go over the cliff" is that he can't afford to have the severity of the recession blamed on the "new Obama normal" -- he needs someone/something to blame it on, in order to gain political capital during the crisis rather than be completely discredited for his entire 2nd term.

Also, btw, a recession isn't necessarily bad -- practically any steps toward a long-term healthy economy can cause a recession in which unsustainable/unprofitable businesses are liquidated in order to make resources available for better ideas.

Flying-Dutchman
12-21-2012, 15:08
It will cost me much, much more than that in taxes. in addition to what i am losing in the market right now.

I've been blessed where income is concerned. I've been very, very lucky. The Repubs making a stand on principal is going to cost me 10-20 times what the proposal would cost me. Bunch of damn idiots. Vote them all out of office (dem and Rep) and start with Boehner.

And now they are home for the holidays. I will be working every day but Christmas because busness never stops. If a business faced the same dilemma the govt faces I can assure you, the key execs would not even take Christmas day off.

Congress is a bunch of Prima Donnas that don't care about the good of the country. They just care about making the other side look bad.

Boehner is an idiot, but he put a workable band aid on the looming cliff crisis. The party left him hanging out to dry. Bad decision for the repubs this time.

I'm irate. The party that has always protected my interests has now left me with a looming tax bill that I am not comfortable mentioning in public.

A bunch of damn morons.
Fire them all and start anew.


I will quit ranting now, thanks for listening.
To summarize….you are a rich Democrat.

No worries, they will make a deal after the New Year when the stock market drops just like when they voted down TARP on the first vote, then caved in.

In fact, TARP started the haywire government; until then they were just muddling along with deficits in the low 100’s of $ billions not Trillions.

You can blame the Tea Party House members for this but the Tea Party was a reaction to insane spending and Obama Care.

No Obama, no Tea Party.

This situation really exposes the dishonesty of the system.

Our entire lives they brainwashed us; vote, get involved, it matters.

So the grassroots voted in some people to stop the insane spending and now they are vilified and nothing changes.

Bottom line is after a lot of fuss and a possible debt limit Government shutdown, nothing much will happen.

Taxes will go up for those making $200K, nothing will get cut, economic growth will be weak and we will be looking at a $22 Trillion debt in 4 years.

Jonesee
12-21-2012, 16:43
I'm a dem because I think the house repubs are a mess?

I disagree. I believe both parties are a mess.

They are not acting in the best interest of the nation

Atlas
12-21-2012, 17:00
I'm a dem because I think the house repubs are a mess?

I disagree. I believe both parties are a mess.

They are not acting in the best interest of the nation

And they haven't been acting in the interests of the nation for more than 75 years. If it were otherwise we would not be having this discussion.

czsmithGT
12-21-2012, 19:30
It will cost me much, much more than that in taxes. in addition to what i am losing in the market right now.

I've been blessed where income is concerned. I've been very, very lucky. The Repubs making a stand on principal is going to cost me 10-20 times what the proposal would cost me. Bunch of damn idiots. Vote them all out of office (dem and Rep) and start with Boehner.

And now they are home for the holidays. I will be working every day but Christmas because busness never stops. If a business faced the same dilemma the govt faces I can assure you, the key execs would not even take Christmas day off.

Congress is a bunch of Prima Donnas that don't care about the good of the country. They just care about making the other side look bad.

Boehner is an idiot, but he put a workable band aid on the looming cliff crisis. The party left him hanging out to dry. Bad decision for the repubs this time.

I'm irate. The party that has always protected my interests has now left me with a looming tax bill that I am not comfortable mentioning in public.

A bunch of damn morons.
Fire them all and start anew.


I will quit ranting now, thanks for listening.

Well said.

callihan_44
12-21-2012, 20:08
I dont believe the spending will be curbed, the dems have the repubs in a corner. take us over the cliff or whatever, spending-takers will slam us into the wall and then we can fix what is broken..maybe

Flying-Dutchman
12-22-2012, 17:41
I'm a dem because I think the house repubs are a mess?

I disagree. I believe both parties are a mess.

They are not acting in the best interest of the nation
The House Republicans are not to blame this time although the Wall Streeters think so. They are keeping their promise of fiscal responsibility

I admit, Bush started it with TARP. One day out-of-the-blue late 2008 he announced, “ I need $800 billion and I need it today.” Don’t debate, don’t think about it, just give it to the banks, now.”

Enter Obama, with $1 trillion stimulus, with no budget demanding no debt ceiling.

It is as if organized crime has taken over the Government in a classic bust-out where they run a business into the ground using its credit to steal.

certifiedfunds
12-22-2012, 17:51
The House Republicans are not to blame this time although the Wall Streeters think so. They are keeping their promise of fiscal responsibility

I admit, Bush started it with TARP. One day out-of-the-blue late 2008 he announced, “ I need $800 billion and I need it today.” Don’t debate, don’t think about it, just give it to the banks, now.”

Enter Obama, with $1 trillion stimulus, with no budget demanding no debt ceiling.

It is as if organized crime has taken over the Government in a classic bust-out where they run a business into the ground using its credit to steal.

Didn't the republicans negotiate this cliff during the debt ceiling negotiations (that they didn't even need to entertain)?

Flying-Dutchman
12-22-2012, 18:08
Didn't the republicans negotiate this cliff during the debt ceiling negotiations (that they didn't even need to entertain)?
True. The Republicans assumed Obama would lose and they didn’t have a “Plan B” in case he won.

This cliff can be quickly undone and it will be if the stock market takes a dive.

The House Republicans are keeping their promise and Obama is keeping his in a game of chicken.

barbedwiresmile
12-22-2012, 18:13
Republicans: models of fiscal restraint.

certifiedfunds
12-22-2012, 19:14
True. The Republicans assumed Obama would lose and they didn’t have a “Plan B” in case he won.

This cliff can be quickly undone and it will be if the stock market takes a dive.

The House Republicans are keeping their promise and Obama is keeping his in a game of chicken.

But isn't Boehner offering new taxes?

What promise are they keeping, exactly?

Flying-Dutchman
12-23-2012, 05:58
But isn't Boehner offering new taxes?

What promise are they keeping, exactly?
Boehner did offer new taxes but Boehner is not the Tea Party and could not get enough votes to pass a tax increase.

The Republicans are keeping their promise of no tax increases and they have not voted for a tax rate increase since Bush 41 when Clinton used the tax increase to defeat him.

Boehner is under enormous pressure from Wall Street to raise taxes or whatever it takes to reach a deal with Obama.

The problem is Obama is not dealing.

Boehner the deal maker is going up against Obama the Dictator.

IvanVic
12-23-2012, 06:03
500k will be the number, I assume.

Jonesee
12-23-2012, 11:41
Boehner did offer new taxes but Boehner is not the Tea Party and could not get enough votes to pass a tax increase.

The Republicans are keeping their promise of no tax increases and they have not voted for a tax rate increase since Bush 41 when Clinton used the tax increase to defeat him.

Boehner is under enormous pressure from Wall Street to raise taxes or whatever it takes to reach a deal with Obama.

The problem is Obama is not dealing.

Boehner the deal maker is going up against Obama the Dictator.


Obama isn't in the House. Boehner can't even get his own party in the House on the same page.

aircarver
12-23-2012, 11:52
Boehner the deal maker is going up against Obama the Dictator.

Both sides appear to be under the misapprehension that Republicans are to be given no power, but it is their duty to supply the commie-crats with all the money they ask for, so commie-crats can be the life of the party ..... :steamed:

.

aircarver
12-23-2012, 11:53
Obama isn't in the House. Boehner can't even get his own party in the House on the same page.

They are now effectively two parties: RINOs and Tea Party.

.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 12:07
Boehner did offer new taxes but Boehner is not the Tea Party and could not get enough votes to pass a tax increase.

The Republicans are keeping their promise of no tax increases and they have not voted for a tax rate increase since Bush 41 when Clinton used the tax increase to defeat him.

Boehner is under enormous pressure from Wall Street to raise taxes or whatever it takes to reach a deal with Obama.

The problem is Obama is not dealing.

Boehner the deal maker is going up against Obama the Dictator.

Offering new taxes isn't keep the promise.

jrd22
12-23-2012, 12:21
Nether side is serious about spending cuts. Boehner's plan would bring in about $20 billion, Obama's (at $400k) about $35 billion in revenue. Meanwhile, back at the budget ranch, the deficit is $1.3 trillion. Can you say pocket change?
Taxes on all taxpayers will be going up (not even counting the big increases associated with Obamacare that will hit everyone), even with the printing presses running full time there is no other way to pay off the debt.

Cavalry Doc
12-23-2012, 17:08
I'm at the point that I think we should go over it. But it is important to lay blame where it belongs, at Barry's feet. That would take a blogosphere assault the likes that have not been seen, to get it on every facebook page, that the republicans offered compromise at every turn, and Barry didn't. It should also get out about how he wanted the republicans on the back of the bus after the last election.

If the republicans can't get this one public awareness message out there, that it's Barry's Fault, we need to clean house, or scrap it and start over.

Jonesee
12-23-2012, 19:12
I'm at the point that I think we should go over it. But it is important to lay blame where it belongs, at Barry's feet. That would take a blogosphere assault the likes that have not been seen, to get it on every facebook page, that the republicans offered compromise at every turn, and Barry didn't. It should also get out about how he wanted the republicans on the back of the bus after the last election.

If the republicans can't get this one public awareness message out there, that it's Barry's Fault, we need to clean house, or scrap it and start over.


The House Republicans are like the Keystone Cops. They can't get enough right to be able to blame Obama.

You have to have "The Mantle of Innocence" in order to pass blame to someone. The Repubs can't understand that and can't achieve it. Bunch of damned idiots.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 20:22
The House Republicans are like the Keystone Cops. They can't get enough right to be able to blame Obama.

You have to have "The Mantle of Innocence" in order to pass blame to someone. The Repubs can't understand that and can't achieve it. Bunch of damned idiots.

It always cracks me up when folks here call you a liberal.

Jonesee
12-23-2012, 20:39
It's only sticks and stones.

Flying-Dutchman
12-24-2012, 05:50
It always cracks me up when folks here call you a liberal.
He calls Republicans idiots but not our Dear Leader.

It is a status symbol to be so rich you can afford to be Liberal.

Flying-Dutchman
12-24-2012, 06:05
Offering new taxes isn't keep the promise.
And this is why Boehner will lose his job as Speaker of the House.

Boehner does not speak for the majority of the House Republicans who will not cave in.

Let Obama cave in; it is Obama’s legacy on the line.

People remember FDR during the Great Depression. No one remembers who the Speaker of the House was at that time.

Jonesee
12-24-2012, 09:48
He calls Republicans idiots but not our Dear Leader.

It is a status symbol to be so rich you can afford to be Liberal.


Read my previous posts. I said throw them all out and start fresh.

I also said I have always supported the Republicans, but they are letting us down. They are so disorganized in the House right they can't accomplish anything.

I just call em as I see em. Supporting the party doesn't mean blindly agreeing with what they do. (at least to me)

Heck, the dems don't need to do anything, they can just stand quietly and let the Repubs do it to themselves.

If you think the the Repubs are acting cohesively, intelligently, and with a single vision right now, you and I will just have to disagree on that one.

And, BTW, I am sitting in my office right now working (on a holiday) because I have responsibilities and obligations to those who pay me, and those who work for me.

WHERE IS OUR CONGRESS RIGHT NOW??? Clearly their responsibilities are greater than mine. Shouldn't they be working today?

Ruble Noon
12-24-2012, 10:20
Read my previous posts. I said throw them all out and start fresh.

I also said I have always supported the Republicans, but they are letting us down. They are so disorganized in the House right they can't accomplish anything.

I just call em as I see em. Supporting the party doesn't mean blindly agreeing with what they do. (at least to me)

Heck, the dems don't need to do anything, they can just stand quietly and let the Repubs do it to themselves.

If you think the the Repubs are acting cohesively, intelligently, and with a single vision right now, you and I will just have to disagree on that one.

And, BTW, I am sitting in my office right now working (on a holiday) because I have responsibilities and obligations to those who pay me, and those who work for me.

WHERE IS OUR CONGRESS RIGHT NOW??? Clearly their responsibilities are greater than mine. Shouldn't they be working today?

What are you doing screwing around on the internet? Get back to work. 47% of Americans are dependent upon you, no time for slacking.

Anyhow, I agree with you Jonesee.

EOS
12-24-2012, 10:30
Come on guys, you know as well as I do that they wont let us go over the "cliff" Because it makes them look bad, its a step toward fixing the problem and they want the coming crash to be as big as possible. I predict they'll heroically come to an agreement on Dec. 31 and hail themselves as Mericas saviors, while they continue to rape us, the economy and plunder the masses.

Cavalry Doc
12-24-2012, 10:37
Come on guys, you know as well as I do that they wont let us go over the "cliff" Because it makes them look bad, its a step toward fixing the problem and they want the coming crash to be as big as possible. I predict they'll heroically come to an agreement on Dec. 31 and hail themselves as Mericas saviors, while they continue to rape us, the economy and plunder the masses.


Honestly? I think that if Barry thinks he can blame the Republicans, and he probably will be able to with the help of the MSM lapdogs, he will let it happen.

Barry will hold out until the Republicans bend over backwards and stick their heads into their 4th point of contact. If they don't bend to the breaking point, and grovel at his feet while abandoning every pledge they ever made on the campaign trail, he will let it happen.

It won't be that bad for those of us that have been ready for it. Stashed away stuff and some extra cash to pay the higher taxes. Downsized certain things, and lowered my standard of living a bit.

kirgi08
12-24-2012, 10:54
We bought our tickets,let's enjoy the ride.'08.

aspartz
12-24-2012, 11:30
Raising taxes on people making $250K and up is the wrong course. If taxes have to be raised, $1 million and up would be better.
Wrong on both counts. If taxes need to be raised, they nedd to be raised on EVERYBODY. Reduce that 47% back to 20% that it was historically.

ARS

Sharkey
12-24-2012, 13:21
We bought our tickets,let's enjoy the ride.'08.

Well I and 49% didn't buy the ticket. A lot of the 51% don't pay taxes. I just read in our paper (again) that those who make 50-75k a year will pay and additional $2400 in taxes in 2013. Enjoy your pay cut. None of that will go to the debt but it will help pay for increased spending by the largest corporation in the country, the fed. Govt.

EOS
12-24-2012, 14:48
Honestly? I think that if Barry thinks he can blame the Republicans, and he probably will be able to with the help of the MSM lapdogs, he will let it happen.

Barry will hold out until the Republicans bend over backwards and stick their heads into their 4th point of contact. If they don't bend to the breaking point, and grovel at his feet while abandoning every pledge they ever made on the campaign trail, he will let it happen.

It won't be that bad for those of us that have been ready for it. Stashed away stuff and some extra cash to pay the higher taxes. Downsized certain things, and lowered my standard of living a bit.. You obviously havent come to the realization that both parties are nothing but a side show controlled by the same people. The political bickering is just WWF on a bigger scale, they put on a show and when they go backstage, they have a drink and plot the next grand scheme. Trust me, they will reach a deal, and nothing will happen for now, Until our creditors realize we cant pay off our debt and stop funding our reckless foriegn policy and Obama phones. We either default through Bernanke's Hyperinflation, or default the old fashioned way. But yes, those of us who have stocked back food and ammo it probably wont be bad. Assuming our wonderful government doesnt implement martial law when the leeches riot because their checks stop coming. You get the government you deserve. What we allow the gov't to do overseas, we invite them to do to us here at home, you reap what you sew.

kirgi08
12-24-2012, 15:51
Good luck with that theory.'08. :upeyes:

Cavalry Doc
12-24-2012, 16:30
. You obviously havent come to the realization that both parties are nothing but a side show controlled by the same people. The political bickering is just WWF on a bigger scale, they put on a show and when they go backstage, they have a drink and plot the next grand scheme. Trust me, they will reach a deal, and nothing will happen for now, Until our creditors realize we cant pay off our debt and stop funding our reckless foriegn policy and Obama phones. We either default through Bernanke's Hyperinflation, or default the old fashioned way. But yes, those of us who have stocked back food and ammo it probably wont be bad. Assuming our wonderful government doesnt implement martial law when the leeches riot because their checks stop coming. You get the government you deserve. What we allow the gov't to do overseas, we invite them to do to us here at home, you reap what you sew.

You obviously haven't been in a meeting with more than 12 people that are trying to climb up the same ladder.

The scariest thing to realize, is that there is no "Master Plan". Everyone is crooked, they are all out for themselves, there are schemes within schemes, and a multitude of competing interests.

There is much more chaos than control in the system. If it were controlled, we would all be happy and prosperous. That is the single best way to control a population. Happy and prosperous people don't storm the gates with pitchforks and torches. But greed rules, and people cheat in every system.

Noles26
12-24-2012, 16:57
term limits and no retirement solves the above

Cavalry Doc
12-24-2012, 17:20
term limits and no retirement solves the above

Term limits, and prohibitions for profiting from their position. It would be difficult, have to include things like book deals and better jobs than they deserve.........

But it would be worth it.