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Chonny
12-21-2012, 06:11
The hard drive can be repaired inside a clean room in the manufacturers plant.

Why have the police not sent this to Samsung or Western Digital or whatever.

It's been said he smashed it.

If that's the only damage, whats the damn hold up?

mgs
12-21-2012, 06:13
Because they are idiots!

fireguy129
12-21-2012, 06:18
You mean if I run a screwdriver through the platters they can still read the info? :wow:

Tackle
12-21-2012, 06:24
Repairing hard drives doesn't work 100% of the time. It depends what fails. Physically inflicted damage is near impossible.

F14Scott
12-21-2012, 06:36
Repairing hard drives doesn't work 100% of the time. It depends what fails. Physically inflicted damage is near impossible.

I saw a TV true crime show where a forensic computer guy examined a hard drive that had been smashed apart with a hammer, the platters shattered into many pieces, some the size of a postage stamp.

He painstakingly aligned the puzzle pieces together and then did digital analysis of the positionally reconstructed platters. He was able to reconstruct enough data to convict.

bdhawk
12-21-2012, 06:58
send it to abby on NCIS.

VC-Racing
12-21-2012, 07:00
send it to abby on NCIS.

No..... Abbey is outstanding , but she'll need to get Timmy to help with computer stuff....



posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

mgs
12-21-2012, 07:03
send it to abby on NCIS.

She rocks....I'll just hang with Ziva and her bikini.

DAIadvisor
12-21-2012, 07:05
People are watching too much TV. If plates are damaged, you're SOL.

Chesafreak
12-21-2012, 07:10
Its already being done by the FBI crime lab. They have a good success rate for recovering data off of destroyed drives, and it won't break the chain of custody and other requirements to be admissible in court like it may if given to the manufacturer.

byf43
12-21-2012, 07:16
People are watching too much TV. If plates are damaged, you're SOL.

Not exactly correct.

There is a facility, here in Maryland, that can and DOES this sort of work for "Uncle".

It works. . . . 95+% of the time. (My company has had hdd's data retrieved.)
The job is very well paying, too.

I happen to know a guy that does this sort of work.
"Uncle" sends him all over the world to retrieve data/hdd(s) and testify.

A couple of the "initial" organizations do this work.

kensb2
12-21-2012, 07:21
I happen to know a guy that does this sort of work.
"Uncle" sends him all over the world to retrieve data/hdd(s) and testify.

A couple of the "initial" organizations do this work.

I also happen to know a guy that does this, but for an alphabet agency.

NeverMore1701
12-21-2012, 07:26
Heat.

Squeeze
12-21-2012, 07:27
There is a reason our three letter agencies grind their
hard drives to dust, after completely over writing the
media. Even with a few bullet holes through the drive,
they will get something...Will it tell them anything?
They could get lucky.

Squeeze

Detectorist
12-21-2012, 07:27
The hard drive can be repaired inside a clean room in the manufacturers plant.

Why have the police not sent this to Samsung or Western Digital or whatever.

It's been said he smashed it.

If that's the only damage, whats the damn hold up?

How do you know they have not done that? Do you think they reveal everything they are doing to the media, which is where you are getting your information?

russoj429
12-21-2012, 07:42
i have posted in another hard drive question regarding someone on here needing data recovery.

i am actually a data recovery specialist, if the platters are physically damaged than no data recovery is possible.

i have seen some drives come into my lab that have completely shattered platters. if this is the case no data can ever be recovered from them.

if a drive looks anything like the ones in the pictures than absolutely no way to get data

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/32177_crash_zps9e2efe51.jpg

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/31643_crash_drive_3_zps5840c953.jpg

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/32215_crash_zpsf2c5dc67.jpg

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/31188_shatteredplatters_zps5a8fbe81.jpg



http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/30393_crash_zpsfcb1ad15.jpg

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/29982_crash_drive_2_zps728ef5ac.jpg

byf43
12-21-2012, 07:47
I also happen to know a guy that does this, but for an alphabet agency.

"Initial" vs. "Alphabet" agency = same/same AFAIC

:cheers:

Dennis in MA
12-21-2012, 07:48
She rocks....I'll just hang with Ziva and her bikini.

Holy Hairy Eyebrows, Batman! :rofl:

(That's a MAN, BABY! YEAH!)

byf43
12-21-2012, 07:49
i have posted in another hard drive question regarding someone on here needing data recovery.

i am actually a data recovery specialist, if the platters are physically damaged than no data recovery is possible.

i have seen some drives come into my lab that have completely shattered platters. if this is the case no data can ever be recovered from them.

if a drive looks anything like the ones in the pictures than absolutely no way to get data


http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn469/rlxurmnd/hard%20drive/31188_shatteredplatters_zps5a8fbe81.jpg





Disagree on your pic #4.
We paid a HUGE sum, and got data retrieved. (Took over 1 year.)

Dennis in MA
12-21-2012, 07:49
Not exactly correct.

There is a facility, here in Maryland, that can and DOES this sort of work for "Uncle".

It works. . . . 95+% of the time. (My company has had hdd's data retrieved.)
The job is very well paying, too.

I happen to know a guy that does this sort of work.
"Uncle" sends him all over the world to retrieve data/hdd(s) and testify.

A couple of the "initial" organizations do this work.

I also happen to know a guy that does this, but for an alphabet agency.

I once met Mr. Hooper from Sesame Street. He worked with initials and alphabets, too. Unfortunately, his primary helper was an 8' bird with a 52 IQ.

russoj429
12-21-2012, 07:52
Disagree on your pic #4.
We paid a HUGE sum, and got data retrieved. (Took over 1 year.)

maybe the platters in your drive weren't shattered like the picture.

how is any data recovery company going to glue the shattered pieces back together?

i would like to know what data recovery company you sent your drive to that can possibly recovery data from shattered platters

byf43
12-21-2012, 07:55
maybe the platters in your drive weren't shattered like the picture.

how is any data recovery company going to glue the shattered pieces back together?

i would like to know what data recovery company you sent your drive to that can possibly recovery data from shattered platters

Can't give you the name of the company. I don't have it.
I do know that they are located somewhere between Laurel, MD and Baltimore, MD and "Uncle" was involved.

ETA: Our security/IT security department handled the equipment.

airmotive
12-21-2012, 08:04
maybe the platters in your drive weren't shattered like the picture.

how is any data recovery company going to glue the shattered pieces back together?

i would like to know what data recovery company you sent your drive to that can possibly recovery data from shattered platters

Don't repair the drives, your pick the individual charges (+/-)off the platters with microprobes. You can do the same thing with EEPROMs.
Very labor-intensive and takes a very long time. The data would have to be very valuable and irreplaceable.
We've spent 6 months picking the brains of a shattered 64K memory chip.
You now have a table of 0's and 1's. Now the software and hardware engineers decode the table, just like the computer's CPU and operating software would do.

Did I mention it's labor-intensive?

pipedreams
12-21-2012, 08:07
Huge sums of money will be spent on trying to recover data possibly from the hard drive and may produce nothing. They already discovered from his cell phone nothing worth while. Is all this costly effort worth it? It's not like he was a terrorist and we're looking to track down members of a terrorist cell. Even if they discover he played a few games, visited a few public know web sites and emailed a few people will that fix anything?

russoj429
12-21-2012, 08:08
Can't give you the name of the company. I don't have it.
I do know that they are located somewhere between Laurel, MD and Baltimore, MD and "Uncle" was involved.

ETA: Our security/IT security department handled the equipment.


i can almost guarantee that the platters were not shattered.

meathead19
12-21-2012, 08:08
Why would he destroy the HD?

If he's going to kill himself (which we would have to presume he's not planning on returning), why would he care if someone looks at the HD?

Usually the mass murder psychopath enjoys leaving a testimony to his pain and rationale.

Adjuster
12-21-2012, 08:11
A hard drive platter is just like a record album. You can shatter the album into pieces and still run the needle over the pieces and hear the music. Digitally record the music and then reassemble it into a complete song. Same with the hard drive platter. You can read the data off of each broken piece and then reassemble it with software and lots of time. All of those broken drives in the pictures have recoverable information. Any of the forensic data recovery companies can do this kind of work. If they can't then they are not a true data recovery company. Theres a difference between forensic data recovery and a company that simply tries to repair a broken hard drive to try and get it to play.


/

kensb2
12-21-2012, 08:12
"Initial" vs. "Alphabet" agency = same/same AFAIC

:cheers:

Yeah, I think I misread the intent of your post. I thought you meant your buddy worked for someone contracted out by an initial/alphabet agency vs. actually working for them.

It is Friday, and it has been a very long week. :faint:

Dennis in MA
12-21-2012, 08:18
Huge sums of money will be spent on trying to recover data possibly from the hard drive and may produce nothing. They already discovered from his cell phone nothing worth while. Is all this costly effort worth it? It's not like he was a terrorist and we're looking to track down members of a terrorist cell. Even if they discover he played a few games, visited a few public know web sites and emailed a few people will that fix anything?

This.

People are looking for reason where there is none. Logic in a place devoid of logic. This is so horrific, there MUST be a pattern. There is none.

The liberals are looking for laws to pass. Conservatives, to change the world. You can't stop this. People like this exist and to near-eliminate them, you'd have to get rid of 10% of the population. You can't PREDICT this.

Alfred still says it best:

Dark Knight- Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn - YouTube

russoj429
12-21-2012, 08:20
A hard drive platter is just like a record album. You can shatter the album into pieces and still run the needle over the pieces and hear the music. Digitally record the music and then reassemble it into a complete song. Same with the hard drive platter. You can read the data off of each broken piece and then reassemble it with software and lots of time. All of those broken drives in the pictures have recoverable information. Any of the forensic data recovery companies can do this kind of work. If they can't then they are not a true data recovery company. Theres a difference between forensic data recovery and a company that simply tries to repair a broken hard drive to try and get it to play.


/

send any of these pictures that i posted to other companies, ontrack, drive savers, gillware and they will all tell you the same thing.

F14Scott
12-21-2012, 09:04
Just did a chat session with Kroll Ontrack
http://www.krollontrack.com/data-recovery

MollyF: Hello. How may I help you?
Scott: I have a question regarding recovery services. Is it possible to recover data from a smashed hard drive, one where the platters themselves are broken into pieces?
MollyF: If there are multiple platters on the drive, yes, there are cases where we can recover the data.
Scott: Are the methods (generally) to do a magnetic analysis of the pieces, themselves, manually discovering and recording the stream of 1s and 0s? I assume it is time consuming and expensive.
MollyF: Yes, it can get expensive.
Scott: Thanks for your help. Doing research, for now. Have a Merry Christmas.

byf43
12-21-2012, 09:08
i can almost guarantee that the platters were not shattered.

All I know, is what our IT Security 'people' told us, after the data was recovered - 'to the point' where the employee was found to be in violation of several policies, including destruction of 'company' property.

(And a BUNCH of $$$ and time was spent, all because of one employee's desire to hide the fact that he was looking @ porn, on company time/equipment!)

russoj429
12-21-2012, 09:21
i am on a chat session with ontrack now, i will post the entire chat log when finished. i even sent them the picture

NeverMore1701
12-21-2012, 09:24
Again, heat.

badge315
12-21-2012, 09:27
The hard drive can be repaired inside a clean room in the manufacturers plant.

Why have the police not sent this to Samsung or Western Digital or whatever.

It's been said he smashed it.

If that's the only damage, whats the damn hold up?

Because it's locked up in the vault at Cyberdyne Systems.

airmotive
12-21-2012, 09:30
A hard drive platter is just like a record album. You can shatter the album into pieces and still run the needle over the pieces and hear the music. Digitally record the music and then reassemble it into a complete song. Same with the hard drive platter. You can read the data off of each broken piece and then reassemble it with software and lots of time. All of those broken drives in the pictures have recoverable information. Any of the forensic data recovery companies can do this kind of work. If they can't then they are not a true data recovery company. Theres a difference between forensic data recovery and a company that simply tries to repair a broken hard drive to try and get it to play.


/

Ahem....the "difference" is huge.:supergrin:

russoj429
12-21-2012, 09:32
here is my chat log, have not heard a response since i gave him the model of the drive



https://sales.liveperson.net/hcp/chatinfo/chatinfo.gifPlease wait for a site operator to respond.
You are not currently in a chat session.
You are not currently in a chat session.
https://sales.liveperson.net/hcp/chatinfo/chatinfo.gifYou are now chatting with 'Mike'
Mike: Thank you for contacting Ontrack technical support. How can I assist you?
visitor: hello, i have a hard drive that was sent to another data recovery lab. they told me that the platters have been shattered and they also supplied me with a picture of the daamge. they told me that data is not recoverable do to the shatterd platters. can you tell me if this is the case if i send you the picture
Mike: If they have actually been shattered, I would assume the same. But I can take a look. It is possible that we may be able to get some data off the drive, but we would need the actual drive sent here
Mike: My email is mhamilton@krollontrack.com
visitor: ok, i am sending it to you know. it will be coming from russoj429@gmail.com
Mike: Sounds perfect! Give me just a minute, I haven't received it yet
visitor: sent
Mike: Did the drive make a lot of clattering/noise before you sent it? What happened to it in the first place?
visitor: it was dropped, part of an external enclosure
Mike: Hmm. Let me go ask one of our engineers if we would be able to do anything by the looks of the picture. Hold on one moment
visitor: thank you
Mike: Sorry this is taking a minute! I am getting a response now
visitor: not a problem
Mike: Ok. What model was that drive do you happen to know?
Mike: It's possible we may be able to recover data off the platters that aren't shattered. If you'd like, I can transfer you to the services department and they can discuss the evaluation process?
visitor: i am looking for the model of drive it is
Mike: Ok, that would help me get a better answer
visitor: it is a toshiba
Mike: Ok, one moment
visitor: thank you

russoj429
12-21-2012, 09:33
so the way i take it is they will not tell me anything until they get the drive

byf43
12-21-2012, 10:39
so the way i take it is they will not tell me anything until they get the drive

Of course.

FWIW, the hdd went bad on my daughter's (then) 2 year old Gateway pc.
(Western Digital hdd, btw!!)

A company in Georgia said that they could retrieve the data "They believe" (actual words), BUT, the need to have physical custody of the hdd.

Price: $350 - $5,000!!

A friend of mine was able to swap the platters with a new hdd of the same type/kind (in a 'clean room'), and got my daughter's "once in a lifetime" photos from a trip to Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland.
(She didn't listen to me. She MOVED the files from the SD card(s), to her hdd.)
It cost me $500.00 to have this retrieval done.
The 'control board' (I think that's what he called it) went bad. The platters weren't damaged.



Now, for clarification - the people that retrieved the data from the hdd that I referenced to, earlier, specializes in this retrieval, and they're considered 'forensic specialists' in the field.

Again, "Uncle" is part of the corporation.

Glock20 10mm
12-21-2012, 10:51
You mean if I run a screwdriver through the platters they can still read the info? :wow:

Yes, but there will still be data loss. To effectively destroy data on a hard drive you need to do one of the following:

1. Melt it down into slag.
2. Hit it with a really, really powerful magnet.

The bits, 1's and 0's are basically mini magnetic deformities on the drive (at least that's how I understand it to work) so the ability to read them still exists even if you smash the platters. BUT as noted it's not 100% and there will ALWAYS be data loss.

WarCry
12-21-2012, 10:52
There's one thing I've not seen mention of here is that they may not HAVE the hard drive.

Granted, all reports are subject to change as things are learned, but one of the last things I'd heard was that the PC was shot up and the hard drive was removed and missing.

Now, I'm not expert on scratched, formatted, overwritten, or shattered HD platters. But I'm pretty certain if they're not present at all, it's going to be REALLY hard to get any data off of them.

ETA: A lot of the talk is about a "smashed hard drive", but I take this with a grain of salt. Often times, much like "assault weapons", hard drive is a term used for a PC tower/box/computer, not the actual hard disc drive itself. So, if he shot up the PC, that could easily make it to the media as a "smashed hard drive". Just saying that the terms being used may not mean what you think they mean.

byf43
12-21-2012, 10:58
^^^ The local ABC affiliate (WJLA-TV7) reported that, (paraphrasing, here) "The harddrive was damaged, by what looked like a hammer."

:dunno:


Honestly, I don't know WHAT (if anything) to believe!

russoj429
12-21-2012, 11:04
ETA: A lot of the talk is about a "smashed hard drive", but I take this with a grain of salt. Often times, much like "assault weapons", hard drive is a term used for a PC tower/box/computer, not the actual hard disc drive itself. So, if he shot up the PC, that could easily make it to the media as a "smashed hard drive". Just saying that the terms being used may not mean what you think they mean.

this is very true, i hear it all the time from customers. "my hard drive is not working" but they are talking about the entire computer tower.

Gunny Lingus
12-21-2012, 11:06
If that's the only damage, whats the damn hold up?

Why bother? Is there any doubt that he did it? Are you looking for subliminal trigger messages from the democrat party?

meathead19
12-21-2012, 11:23
Why bother? Is there any doubt that he did it? Are you looking for subliminal trigger messages from the democrat party?

There is for some.

Tackle
12-21-2012, 11:55
Of course.

FWIW, the hdd went bad on my daughter's (then) 2 year old Gateway pc.
(Western Digital hdd, btw!!)

A company in Georgia said that they could retrieve the data "They believe" (actual words), BUT, the need to have physical custody of the hdd.

Price: $350 - $5,000!!

A friend of mine was able to swap the platters with a new hdd of the same type/kind (in a 'clean room'), and got my daughter's "once in a lifetime" photos from a trip to Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland.
(She didn't listen to me. She MOVED the files from the SD card(s), to her hdd.)
It cost me $500.00 to have this retrieval done.
The 'control board' (I think that's what he called it) went bad. The platters weren't damaged.



Now, for clarification - the people that retrieved the data from the hdd that I referenced to, earlier, specializes in this retrieval, and they're considered 'forensic specialists' in the field.

Again, "Uncle" is part of the corporation.

Typical hard drive failures have a much better chance of being read. Especially if not from physical damage in the platters. If the needle goes bad they can be put in another functioning hard drive of the same/make/model and revision. Hence the high cost per gb of retrevial.

As far as shattered platters...I would guess the cost is 100's or even thousands times more than a typical failure and even then there is no guarantee of successful retrieval.

WarCry
12-21-2012, 12:58
^^^ The local ABC affiliate (WJLA-TV7) reported that, (paraphrasing, here) "The harddrive was damaged, by what looked like a hammer."

:dunno:


Honestly, I don't know WHAT (if anything) to believe!

Mike Brooks (CNN's former cop/expert when things like this happen - and a pretty smart guy) originally reported that he was hearing the "computer was smashed and the hard drive was missing", but he's not on the air now, because they bring him in when things are "active".

Even though it was "heat of the moment" stuff, I trust his report on it more than the anchors/producers interpretation now, a week later.