AR15 Ammo question [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Teej
12-21-2012, 08:59
I am a newbie to AR's. Just picked up my first which is a Bushmaster.

My friend told me to stay away from the Russian .223 ammo. He said it would foul it up and I'd be doing a lot of cleaning. However as you all know, ammo is currently dried up out there.

I have located some Silver Bear 55 grn FMJ and HP. What are your thoughts on this please?

Leigh
12-21-2012, 09:02
I prefer brass but steel case ammo works just fine.
I consider all ammo "dirty" so cleaning is just a part of gun ownership to me.
If the ammo is not corrosive to begin with, your rifle won't be any more "fouled" than using brass-cased stuff.

Teej
12-21-2012, 09:03
Well they just sold last case out while I was posting. lol

Oh well. I'd still appreciate your opinions. In the mean time I have a nice looking club...... :whistling:

GAFinch
12-21-2012, 09:12
I've still seen some .223 hunting ammo available. More expensive but still very effective and better than having nothing.

P99er
12-21-2012, 09:55
It was originally thought that the older Russian ammo which had a lacquer coating, would cause it to gum up the works: if you ran brass case behind it, the lacquer build up could gum up the brass case and cause it to jam. Somebody did a test to test the theory and found that the lacquer was indeed sticking to the brass cases and fouling the action, causing jams. You could see specs of lacquer on the brass cases. Folks decided if you were going to use Wolf, stay with it until you cleaned your rifle.

Then, it evolved into combloc ammo for combloc guns.

Now, I think most Russian ammo is polymer coated. I don't know if they are having the same problems with the polymer coating, but I haven't read much about it. You can try arfcom or M4C.net to find out for sure.

Some people think steel cases hurt the extractor, and some advocated a third party extractor and spring.

It you can, it might not be a bad idea to have a separate bolt or extractor that you use soley for combloc ammo.

Teej
12-21-2012, 10:05
Ya, hunting ammo corelok at $34 a box I was just quoted!!! With the promise that when the bulk target ammo does start to back order back in, it will be at higher prices!!!!

I should have bought another AK! :steamed:

mvician
12-21-2012, 13:13
The lacquer DOES NOT MELT AND CAUSE STUCK CASES


carbon builds up because the steel case does not expand as well as brass.

I wish this myth would die already

MajorD
12-21-2012, 13:20
Steel case ammo is a crapshoot some guns run fine with it while others choke. It even varies between identical models of the same brand. My advice is buy some if it runs in your rifle great but don't bet on it. The best advice aside from always buying brass case ( difficult to say the least in the current market) is to get set up for reloading

boomhower
12-21-2012, 14:27
It's is certainly going to result in more cleaning but not going to hurt anything.

WinterWizard
12-21-2012, 14:34
The lacquer DOES NOT MELT AND CAUSE STUCK CASES


carbon builds up because the steel case does not expand as well as brass.

I wish this myth would die already

This.

Some say if you run 1 brass round for every 9 steel rounds in your mags (1:9 ratio), that the brass case will sort of clean out the chamber enough to keep your gun from jamming. Have no idea if it has any validity or not. I don't shoot that crap so I will never know... :whistling:

M&P15T
12-21-2012, 14:38
You wanna buy 5.56/7.62x39 ammo right now?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

TheExplorer
12-21-2012, 14:41
Well they just sold last case out while I was posting. lol

Oh well. I'd still appreciate your opinions. In the mean time I have a nice looking club...... :whistling:

:rofl:I think that will be the case for quite a few for a while.

Teej
12-21-2012, 16:44
You wanna buy 5.56/7.62x39 ammo right now?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You do mean 5.56/".223"??

7.62x39 is readily available

WoodenPlank
12-21-2012, 19:02
The lacquer DOES NOT MELT AND CAUSE STUCK CASES


carbon builds up because the steel case does not expand as well as brass.

I wish this myth would die already

Thanks for beating me to it.

Lube the BCG. When the gun starts to run sluggish of have FTF/FTE issues, scrub the chamber with a chamber brush, lube the BCG some more, and keep shooting. At this point, I have been shooting steel case almost exclusively for a while now.

Steve in PA
12-21-2012, 19:36
I've shot plenty of steel cased ammo through my AR. First, it was lacquer coated but then they changed it to polymer coated. I've shot many thousands of rounds of steel cased ammo. I can only think of two FTE's (failure to extract) when firing the ammo. Pulled the BCG, hit the chamber with a chamber brush, then went back to shooting.

If I had the choice, I would take brass cased ammo. However, if due to cost and availability factors, steel was my only option, I'd be okay with it.

mjkeat
12-22-2012, 18:44
The lacquer DOES NOT MELT AND CAUSE STUCK CASES


carbon builds up because the steel case does not expand as well as brass.

I wish this myth would die already

^This


I do love the guy who recommended to keep separate internals for use w/ brass and steel cased ammunition.

jay-bird
12-22-2012, 18:48
My Walmart has thirty boxes left of 50 grain varmint tip federal for 10 bucks a box. My town is Liberal.

WoodenPlank
12-22-2012, 18:59
^This


I do love the guy who recommended to keep seseparatenternals for use w/ brass and steel cased ammunition.

...huh? :dunno:

AZson
12-22-2012, 19:06
My AR is full of DRT ammo right now.

SHWAT™ DRT Ammo .223 79 grain gel test - See more on DRT Ammo at www.SHWAT.com - YouTube

collim1
12-22-2012, 19:27
I shoot alot of steel through my RRA with no problems as of yet. I shot 400 rds of Hornady Steel this week, and then switched to brass with no problems.

I wont freak out if I get a jam or two running cheap steel. Instead I'll run a boresnake and some Shooters Choice down the bore and add a few drop of CLP to the BCG and keep firing.

ithaca_deerslayer
12-22-2012, 19:30
I shoot alot of steel through my RRA with no problems as of yet. I shot 400 rds of Hornady Steel this week, and then switched to brass with no problems.

I wont freak out if I get a jam or two running cheap steel. Instead I'll run a boresnake and some Shooters Choice down the bore and add a few drop of CLP to the BCG and keep firing.
I'm only running brass through my RRA baby. But I'll put steel through my Saiga 7.62.

collim1
12-22-2012, 19:49
I'm only running brass through my RRA baby. But I'll put steel through my Saiga 7.62.

I used to refuse to consider steel ammo as I bought into the "myths" that it causes damage to your gun. I dont believe it will damage your gun, but is does have some drawbacks.

I did my own research and tested steel in some cheaper guns. I shoot it now with no worries about damaging my guns and accept the fact that I may have more ammo related malfunctions.

I've shot a ton of Tula in my Sig P220 with no ill effects except for some stovepipes after several hundred rounds without cleaning. A quick brush with some solvent and a patch or two gets it back up and running. Gone as far as 1K rounds with brass and never had a malfunction in the same gun.

My Sig P220 is my baby, and I shoot steel with it. I have no problem with people refusing to shoot steel as I used to strongly refuse to shoot it. Price is the biggest concern for me, and I am willing to accept the drawbacks to get my cost per round down.

larson1122
12-23-2012, 00:48
You wanna buy 5.56/7.62x39 ammo right now?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Sure, why not? It's out there if you look around, and not everybody is charging ridiculous prices. I picked up 500 rounds of .223 today for $130. Not the best deal in the world but certainly fair given the circumstances.

mc1911
12-23-2012, 23:05
I picked up some Federal American Eagle .223 at a WalMart in a liberal college town

They are great places to shop for ammo.

WarEagle32
12-23-2012, 23:47
I know some of you guys run tons of Russian ammo without any problems, but I will never put a single round through any of my AR's unless its absolutely necessary JMO. It all I run in my AK's though!

mjkeat
12-24-2012, 00:50
I know some of you guys run tons of Russian ammo without any problems, but I will never put a single round through any of my AR's unless its absolutely necessary JMO. It all I run in my AK's though!

Why is that?

cptslick
12-24-2012, 10:34
Believe it or not I actually follow my manual I received with my AR which says:
Due to a number of calls and comments concerning AR-type rifles, we have incurred

feeding problems with the following:

A) 1. Israeli ammunition

2. Korean ammunition

We have heard and reviewed several reports of problems with many manufacturers’ rifles

using this ammunition. The problem appears to be the bullet contour and the overall

length of the cartridge, which is contacting the rifling before firing. This is creating a gas

port pressure and chamber pressure higher than recommended, therefore causing

feeding and extraction problems due to the increased bolt carrier velocity. In addition,

there is accelerated fatigue on internal parts. There are also indications that brass may be

oversized, which could create an unsafe condition.

B) 1. PMP

2. South African produced surplus

We have used this ammunition in the past for testing purposes and found that the brass

is extremely soft and can “flow” into microscopic pores and grooves in the chamber,

creating “sticky” extraction. This had been reported in many types of rifles, but is more

prevalent in semi-automatic weapons.

C) Lacquer Coated Ammunition or Steel-cased, lacquer coated ammunition

The problem with this ammunition is the lacquer coating on the case. As the barrel heats

up, the lacquer turns to a soft, varnish substance and upon cool down, becomes very solid

and difficult to remove. This effectively creates an undersized chamber and creates

understandable problems.

DPMS recommends the use of high quality, domestically produced ammunition for best

results and highest accuracy. For plinking and practice, we recommend only domestic,

commercially manufactured ammunition or high quality surplus NATO specification

ammunition.


Please note that the use of re-loaded ammunition voids the factory

warranty as well as the use of the above-mentioned types of ammunition.

Your rifle is an investment and it only makes sense to choose quality ammunition for a

quality rifle!

rootbrain
12-24-2012, 20:18
Well they just sold last case out while I was posting. lol

Oh well. I'd still appreciate your opinions. In the mean time I have a nice looking club...... :whistling:

They sold it to me. Sorry, 149.95 for 500 round case, couldn't pass it up.


Rootbrain

rootbrain
12-24-2012, 20:34
This.

Some say if you run 1 brass round for every 9 steel rounds in your mags (1:9 ratio), that the brass case will sort of clean out the chamber enough to keep your gun from jamming. Have no idea if it has any validity or not. I don't shoot that crap so I will never know... :whistling:

You go ahead and stick with brass. Silver Bear zinc plated steel is just as good, IMO. Last 500 round case was $149.95 (before the panic). Never an ftf or FTE, just as accurate from my experience. Match shooters are a different breed so this would not be for them. But for range, target, varmit or plinking steel isn't a problem. Yes I trust it enough for HD also.

I don't clean after every trip to the range either. We'd go through 500-1000 rounds easy in 'Nam before we had a CHANCE to clean with no problems. My Colt 6920 is the same.

Uncle Sugar paid for brass so no prob. then.

Rootbrain

mvician
12-24-2012, 20:42
C) Lacquer Coated Ammunition or Steel-cased, lacquer coated ammunition

The problem with this ammunition is the lacquer coating on the case. As the barrel heats

up, the lacquer turns to a soft, varnish substance and upon cool down, becomes very solid

and difficult to remove. This effectively creates an undersized chamber and creates

understandable problems.



BS





DPMS recommends the use of high quality, domestically produced ammunition for best

results and highest accuracy. For plinking and practice, we recommend only domestic,

commercially manufactured ammunition or high quality surplus NATO specification

ammunition.






mmmmmm, OK

cowboy1964
12-24-2012, 21:22
Israeli (I assume IMI) ammo invalidates DPMS's warranty?

Wow.

GAFinch
12-24-2012, 22:09
Israeli (I assume IMI) ammo invalidates DPMS's warranty?

Wow.

It's probably re-branded Chinese crap like their gun accessories.

Benton
12-25-2012, 00:16
Your friend gave you some good advice. Take it!

pnutcar
12-25-2012, 03:23
I have a budget build with a nice BCM bcg and ONLY shoot Tula stuff (paper targets aren't picky) and haven't had a single problem. When I'm done shooting, I clean and lube just like I do my other guns. Not much to add, but its my .02. Somethings better than nothing..