NC, Paperweight Build Partys? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : NC, Paperweight Build Partys?


GunLoverLiberty
12-22-2012, 04:20
I was reading online that they've had building party's this year in CA where a CNC machine was donated to finish an 80% paperweight for personal use.

Thread here
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/577330_.html

I'm wondering if there is more talk of an AWB and legislation starts to get underway if anyone would be interested in doing this in NC area.

From what I've researched it's very much legal and the user is the one who will be operating the machine and manipulating everything.

The CNC is just there to make the job faster (8 minute build time)

With the price of stripped lowers going over 300$ due to demand, there is very little supply for gun loving Americans.

The paperweights can be bought for very little cost, Around 80$. So this is actually getting to be a viable option.

Of course this is just hypothetical and all laws need to be researched.
I am in no way endorsing that this is legal and this isn't legal advice.

Let me know your opinion on this topic.
Thank you.

Gunnut 45/454
12-22-2012, 07:48
Well I'd say the BATF would probably be very upset if people are building rifles with out S/N's! But what do I know! Plus I'm sure they will be unleashed on us gun owners in the next few years if they go ahead on the a new ban . They've been itching to go kick in doors on gunowners in America for years! And you as a gun owner-not a manufacture cant put S/N's on guns cause then you become a manufacturer! They'd want there money(taxes) and license fee's! Just saying!:whistling:

GunLoverLiberty
12-22-2012, 13:10
Well I'd say the BATF would probably be very upset if people are building rifles with out S/N's! But what do I know! Plus I'm sure they will be unleashed on us gun owners in the next few years if they go ahead on the a new ban . They've been itching to go kick in doors on gunowners in America for years! And you as a gun owner-not a manufacture cant put S/N's on guns cause then you become a manufacturer! They'd want there money(taxes) and license fee's! Just saying!:whistling:

Well I've read they don't need a S/N. those are only for manufacturers to keep track of how many they've made and such.

Also there isn't any record when you buy a gun. Not a national database or anything. The seller just keeps a log in case they need to help investigators.

Thats why Face to Face selling is legal without paperwork.
It's our inalienable rights to have free trade and freedom to own firearms.

If you make it for personal use it doesn't need to have any markings
edit: You would be making for personal use and never intend to trade or sell it afterwards. Because you're not a licensed firearms manufacturer.

bigmoney890
12-22-2012, 13:17
Any firearm made for personal use, not to EVER be sold, doesn't require a S/N.

And I've been wondering the same thing about a build party in NC. So, if you find one, please post it up. We've got quite a few NC'ers in here.

MD357
12-22-2012, 13:29
Well I'd say the BATF would probably be very upset if people are building rifles with out S/N's! But what do I know! Plus I'm sure they will be unleashed on us gun owners in the next few years if they go ahead on the a new ban . They've been itching to go kick in doors on gunowners in America for years! And you as a gun owner-not a manufacture cant put S/N's on guns cause then you become a manufacturer! They'd want there money(taxes) and license fee's! Just saying!:whistling:

Wow. Someone needs a drink..... or a Xanax.... maybe both.

I'd love for something like this to happen locally. From what I understand it's completely legal so long as nobody has the intention of selling it.

crazymoose
12-22-2012, 13:47
I could be wrong, but I believe that, with non-serial-numbered guns, the prohibition goes beyond sales, and bars transfers of any sort. No giving it to a friend for free, no willing it to your kids when you die.

GunLoverLiberty
12-22-2012, 13:57
I could be wrong, but I believe that, with non-serial-numbered guns, the prohibition goes beyond sales, and bars transfers of any sort. No giving it to a friend for free, no willing it to your kids when you die.

Thats fine with me. I don't have any kids and It would only be for learning purposes and do it yourself.

Plus if the prices keep up we could save some money.

If anyone has a milling machine and wants to host a party lets get to work and put in some cash for a group buy.

The more paperweights you order the cheaper they are.

edit:
http://aresarmor.com/store/Item/TACMHL15

Here are some 80% finished and anodized ready to be finished.
Price is 90$ each or 80$ for plain aluminum.

Ships right to your door!

boomhower
12-22-2012, 14:20
I'd be game for it. If it happens definitely keep me in the loop.

GunLoverLiberty
12-22-2012, 15:24
I'd be game for it. If it happens definitely keep me in the loop.

I'll keep you guys posted.

I'm going to cross post this info on the AR15 forums and try to gather up someone who has a CNC connection whos a firearms enthusiast.

It would be a great way to help the community and feel good about it too.

If this legislation materializes, we need to get supply before it runs out. and pumping out a bunch of lowers sounds like a good idea.

bmoore
12-22-2012, 16:09
They have them every week here. I'm not into the 80% lower thing but some of my friends have done them.

GunLoverLiberty
12-22-2012, 16:56
They have them every week here. I'm not into the 80% lower thing but some of my friends have done them.

Here in NC we are having a gun panic. I went down to Hyatts yesterday and the only thing left was a 6,000 dollar AR-10.

People are buying like crazy here & if we are going to see an AWB bill come into effect, we need to have some more lowers made for personal use.

This is just insane that a common part like a lower would be selling for hundreds of dollars.

I guess time will tell what happens. I am wishing for the best.

nursetim
12-22-2012, 17:21
Well I've read they don't need a S/N. those are only for manufacturers to keep track of how many they've made and such.

Also there isn't any record when you buy a gun. Not a national database or anything. The seller just keeps a log in case they need to help investigators.

Thats why Face to Face selling is legal without paperwork.
It's our inalienable rights to have free trade and freedom to own firearms.

If you make it for personal use it doesn't need to have any markings
edit: You would be making for personal use and never intend to trade or sell it afterwards. Because you're not a licensed firearms manufacturer.

This is about North Carolina right? If so then the above bold script is illegal in that most gun friendly of states. Maybe the new governor will help the good gun owners of NC.

GunLoverLiberty
12-22-2012, 17:34
This is about North Carolina right? If so then the above bold script is illegal in that most gun friendly of states. Maybe the new governor will help the good gun owners of NC.

I said the laws needed to be researched but I've seen people on armslist who sell FTF all the time and only show Id's

I don't know the legality of it, but they're doing it here.

Raleigh Glocker
12-22-2012, 18:01
In NC, the seller of a handgun must either collect a pistol permit or copy the buyer's CHL. This is not required for long gun private party sales.

Still, I get the feeling that many more NC private handgun transactions happen without a pistol permit than with.

ETA: I'd love to machine my own lower just to have one that I made myself.

bmoore
12-22-2012, 18:02
Here in NC we are having a gun panic. I went down to Hyatts yesterday and the only thing left was a 6,000 dollar AR-10.

People are buying like crazy here & if we are going to see an AWB bill come into effect, we need to have some more lowers made for personal use.

This is just insane that a common part like a lower would be selling for hundreds of dollars.

I guess time will tell what happens. I am wishing for the best.

Its the same out here.

mrvtwin80
12-23-2012, 08:29
With the lower receivers being unattainable lately I've been studying the procedure on converting the 80% percent receivers. They can be done with a set of jigs and a drill press also, there are lots of how to videos on YouTube that cover this.

GunLoverLiberty
12-23-2012, 08:33
With the lower receivers being unattainable lately I've been studying the procedure on converting the 80% percent receivers. They can be done with a set of jigs and a drill press also, there are lots of how to videos on YouTube that cover this.

Yes except the jigs are 100's of dollars and wear out because you're essentially using them as a guide while you reem the drill across it.

The whole point of using a CNC is that the specs can be uploaded from a file and it's easier than a milling machine or drill press.

I guess if stuff gets really bad then it would be the only option left (using a drill press)

Leper
12-23-2012, 08:38
In NC, the seller of a handgun must either collect a pistol permit or copy the buyer's CHL. This is not required for long gun private party sales.

Still, I get the feeling that many more NC private handgun transactions happen without a pistol permit than with.

ETA: I'd love to machine my own lower just to have one that I made myself.
Their is an exception for law enforcement. They still run the check but are only required to obtain a copy of the officer's credential and driver's license.

GunLoverLiberty
12-23-2012, 09:00
I found a build of a guy who used only hand tools to finish one.

Didn't even use a drill press.

I'm not advocating that anyone do this because it's probably not reliable but it is still a rifle & In an emergency you could have something rather than nothing.

http://mujahadeenar15a2.tripod.com/

Edit: Also want to add that the lower he completed was more like 50%

The newer ones for sale have all the holes pre-drilled and tapped, minus the fire control group and associated pins.

mac66
12-23-2012, 09:37
I could be wrong, but I believe that, with non-serial-numbered guns, the prohibition goes beyond sales, and bars transfers of any sort. No giving it to a friend for free, no willing it to your kids when you die.

Not true. It is not illegal to have or transfer a gun without a serial number on it. Many guns prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 did not have serial numbers on them and are fully transferable.

In regard to making guns you just can't make them as a business venture without the proper licenses. Besides, without a number how would anyone know who made it or where it came from? Which is of course the point of making one. No trace of you having it, right?

For those who weren't around during the last AWB. guns, parts, uppers, and lowers did not disappear. In fact after the first couple months of hysteria and panic buying and after production caught up with demand, prices fell to about what they were just before this latest panic.

The problem during the last ban wasn't guns, ARs, AKs etc were plentiful and fairly cheap. They just couldn't be made with flash hiders and bayonet lugs. The problem was hi-cap mags.

Oh, and build parties were fairly common. In fact even now many cities have shops that rent out their facilities/machines just for people to finish off lowers. They are all set up and ready to go. You walk in, pay your $30. The guy there simply walks you through the setup and what buttons to push. They know what they are doing and so does the ATF. Completely legal and above board.

My advice is just wait a couple months until the hysteria and anti-gun rhetoric dies down. Even if another ban is passed it is going to be long and hard fought battle.

MAXG
12-23-2012, 09:45
I'd definitely be interested in a build party.


MG in NC

Gunnut 45/454
12-23-2012, 10:52
GunLoverLiberty
Then theres the senerio of when /if you come in contact with LEO's and said unserial # firearm. How do you prove you didn't file it off? That will catch you a felony charge if I'm not mistaken. Yes certain Curio weapons were made without serial #'s but they are obviously Curio weapons and AR is known to be of recent post Serial# requirements. I could careless about your build parties I say go for it, I'm just playing devils advicate!
Instead of finding a work around I'd rather stop the Government Infringemnts on our right to own, carry and posess.:supergrin:

GunLoverLiberty
12-23-2012, 10:56
GunLoverLiberty
Then theres the senerio of when /if you come in contact with LEO's and said unserial # firearm. How do you prove you didn't file it off? That will catch you a felony charge if I'm not mistaken. Yes certain Curio weapons were made without serial #'s but they are obviously Curio weapons and AR is known to be of recent post Serial# requirements. I could careless about your build parties I say go for it, I'm just playing devils advicate!
Instead of finding a work around I'd rather stop the Government Infringemnets on our right to own, carry and posess.:supergrin:

The lowers don't have any marking at all, no stamps or anything on any of it.

I'm sure any typical LEO has handled an AR and if so, they would be farmilar with it having a manufacturer marking.

As soon as you let them know the law & it was made by your own hand. then they should uphold it and not give you anymore trouble.


& It's not as much a workaround as a money saver.
Why would I want to buy an overpriced commercially made lower?

If they're selling for 80$ then I should be able to buy a finished one for slightly more.

The milling machine only has to work for an additional 2 minutes but yet they're reselling these parts for 325$ on arms list right now.

If the price doesn't stay reasonable (Around 100$) I will be making lowers for myself.

bigmoney890
12-23-2012, 17:39
GunLoverLiberty
Then theres the senerio of when /if you come in contact with LEO's and said unserial # firearm. How do you prove you didn't file it off? That will catch you a felony charge if I'm not mistaken. Yes certain Curio weapons were made without serial #'s but they are obviously Curio weapons and AR is known to be of recent post Serial# requirements. I could careless about your build parties I say go for it, I'm just playing devils advicate!
Instead of finding a work around I'd rather stop the Government Infringemnts on our right to own, carry and posess.:supergrin:


You are mistaken, and you keep spouting off stuff that you make up. It's already been established that it's perfectly legal to make a firearm without a serial number. Anyone that's is not mentally handicapped can tell if a serial number has been filed off an AR.

dkf
12-23-2012, 18:02
Already own a CNC mill. I may go the 80% lower route, don't know yet.

The legislators and people who want an all out ban with confiscation are pretty stupid. If you could manage to round up and destroy every gun on the planet by the end of this year, there will already be guys with the lathes and mills running making more on the 31st.(whether illegal or not) The know how and skills are out there, good luck trying get rid of that.

GunLoverLiberty
12-23-2012, 18:09
Already own a CNC mill. I may go the 80% lower route, don't know yet.

The legislators and people who want an all out ban with confiscation are pretty stupid. If you could manage to round up and destroy every gun on the planet by the end of this year, there will already be guys with the lathes and mills running making more on the 31st.(whether illegal or not) The know how and skills are out there, good luck trying get rid of that.

Wow CNC Mill huh, I bet you're not located in NC tho?

I know they can't ban all the guns and they surely wouldn't ban home made ones, that law would never pass.

I have the CAD models and 3d models for a completed lower on my computer here. So you could essentially run these into a CNC machine for your own personal use.

I found them on CNC gunsmiths here
http://www.cncguns.com/downloads.html

I hope to find someone here in NC who'd be willing to rent out the CNC for a finishing party.

I'm not having any luck in finding lowers for sale.
The word on AR15.com, Hyatt gun is selling Bushmaster flat tops for 4500$ now.

They're also saying .223 is 1$ a round. I don't know if this has any validity. but this is just crazy.

I'm also looking into this company I found in NC

http://usatfnc.com/

They have an EDM machine and it could be used to finish 80%'s but I don't know if they would allow the public to rent it.

I tried contacting them and they're putting a message out saying that the company has been overwhelmed with demand right now.

I wouldn't expect that because they're located out in the middle of Statesville.
I'll post more information when I find out what they say.

dkf
12-23-2012, 18:38
Wow CNC Mill huh, I bet you're not located in NC tho?No, not in NC

A lot of companies broach the mag area, cheaper. EDM is expensive and slow. You can buy the jig and fixture to finish lowers on a drill press if that is all you have to use. A mill is best though.