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xtremetj
12-22-2012, 07:58
I'm seeing a lot 300 Blackouts for sale. Thinking about picking one up just because i can but am not famiar with the round. Any benefits to it compared to the 5.56? Enlighten me please.

DustyJacket
12-22-2012, 08:29
Heavier (slower) bullet than the 5.56mm.

Similar ballistics the the Russian 7.62 round in the AK platforms. (when supersonic)
But, the only component you have to replace is the barrel. Not the bolt nor magazines.

Also, functions as a subsonic round.

WoodenPlank
12-22-2012, 09:08
Easily suppressed with 200+ grain subsonic loads, and can be quieter than an MP5SD. Can use reformed .223 brass, too. Until all the idiots started panic buying .223 in the past week, ammo for 300 was more expensive and harder to find in some places. Since so many of the components are the same, though, if the panic buying of .223 ammo continues, it'll start driving up the cost of 300, as well.

number1gun
12-22-2012, 09:32
I see no benefit whatsoever. IMO horrible round. Crap Balistics.
Expensive, not as much availability. Looks like it was designed for use with suppressor and sub sonic ammo. To me the real problem is that it is to specific in nature. Narrow use. The upper end Balistics are even worse. I think 6.8spc has more versatility.
At least with 6.8 you can go from sub sonic to 3000ft/sec with an over the counter round. Upper end of 6.8 is darn close to .243 Balistics. I like the idea of one pretty versital calliber. I hunt more any way. I am also going to change from 6.8 to .223. For all the same reasons above. I happen to like 6.8 but .223 is everywhere. I do not need the hassle and expence of several different callibers. Coyotes will never know the difference. Good luck.

MarkCO
12-22-2012, 13:59
xtremetj, please ignore post #4...

The 5.56/.223 is of course the dominant round, but there are a slew of others. The 6.8 as compared to the .300BO has a little more velocity (about 150 fps for the same wieght slug) but to say it is close to the .243 (the 6.8 is about 300 fps behind the .243) is like saying the .30-30 is close to the .308. At least around here, there is NO 6.5 or 6.8 ammo at the LGS. whereas 3 or 4 flavors of .300BO are always in stock. There are also no available 6.8 sub-sonic rounds currently being produced. The 6.8 is not "bad" by any stretch, just not so great as implied in post #4. The 6.5Grendel and 6mm/.223 offer more advantages over the 6.8SPC.

The appeal of the .300BO is multi-dimensional. First, as said before, it can be had, in factory ammo, in a sub-sonic round. With a suppressor, suppressed is well, supressed. Without a suppressor, think of the .300 BO as a 200 yard .45 ACP. The 225, 240 slugs, with higher BCs are much more accurate than a .45 and with more retained energy at any distance and significnatly better at barrier defeat. The recoil is less than the .45 ACP and the noice level is about the same.

When you go to Supersonic, there is great variety. From 110 to 155 slugs (2450 to 2000 fps) at a variety of power levels. It is capable for deer sized game, varmints etc. out to 300 yards or more depending on the shooters skill.

Is it the be-all, end all? No. However for certain tasks, it is better than other calibers in the AR-15 platform. The beauty is really in the conversion...just a barrel swap. The ..204Ruger, 6mm/.223 and .300BO are the only few that you use all the same parts (including mags) as the parent .223. The others require bolt changes, gas system changes, mag changes in varying degrees. Typically, the price of specialty bolts and mags is about 2x the .223/5.56 versions.

Unless, you want to shoot sub-sonic and or use a larger caliber for deer sized and smaller game, there is not a good reason to drift from the mainline .223/5.56. If you do however, then there are a lot of options, the .300BO being one to consider.

xtremetj
12-22-2012, 15:33
Thanks guys. I appreciate the information. I think I'll stick with the 5.56/223.

Raleigh Glocker
12-22-2012, 18:04
I have a playlist of several videos discussing and demonstrating the 300 BLK. It is one of many calibers that I like. It does what it's advertised to do very well, but it is not the only interesting caliber out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiJWyMu73RE&list=PLLL3Kmhuld1WhTki1ivyQZkQGtuzmV8Fs

DustyJacket
12-24-2012, 14:39
300 BLK

http://www.dustyjacket.com/shooting/300blk-r.jpg

onebigelf
12-24-2012, 17:55
I took a good, hard look at the 300 Whisper (same round) and then went with 6x45mm. I just wasn't interested in sub-sonic which is the real meow of the Whisper/Blackout/Fireball/ *300/221*

John

WoodenPlank
12-24-2012, 18:19
300 BLK

http://www.dustyjacket.com/shooting/300blk-r.jpg

What suppressor is that? Looks like a YHM.

ksmedman
12-24-2012, 18:41
Ignore post #4, he doesn't have one or know anything about them, just posting crap he read on the internet I imagine. :upeyes: Perhaps I'm wrong...

I have a 300BLK pistol that I'm waiting on my stamp to SBR.
It's a 10" Noveske barrel, has great accuracy and can reach out as far as most people ever shoot.
The caliber is nice in that it throws more weight than 5.56, and has a lot of versatility in subsonic and supersonic selection. I am getting ~2400 fps out of 125gr supers, plenty of power. Makes a nice, tight CQB HD gun IMHO.

Uses standard 5.56 components, except barrel. Also uses standardized 308/7.62 bullets. AKs use a .311 bullet, so they are caliber specific. You can use the plethora of .308 bullets to reload with the 300BLK.

It's not some magic guru do-all round, but it expands the AR platform, esp for those of us in <.23 caliber hunting states. If you're not a reloader, it limits the

DustyJacket
12-24-2012, 19:31
What suppressor is that? Looks like a YHM.

Gem-Tech Sandstorm titanium 7.62 NATO

AK_Stick
12-24-2012, 19:35
300 blk out is only really advantageous if you use a surpressor. Unsurpressed and supersonic, it lags behind the 6.5 and 6.8.

Pick the route you want to go, and the caliber choice is fairly obvious.

number1gun
12-25-2012, 00:33
Wow. Actually I do have one in 6.8. 85gr Barnes TSX @ 3000ft/sec. Silver State amory. I bought 800rds. Last I checked, just raw numbers..pretty close to .243. Compare with Hornady .243 95gr sst @2960. Can buy 6.8 85gr TSX online almost any time. Yes not in many LGS. It did make a mistake with using the term over the counter. Almost know one has either one in any quantity. Unless you happen to have a LGS that Makes an effort to keep several in stock. again good luck.

DustyJacket
12-25-2012, 02:02
Supersonic - the 300 BLK is about the same as an AK round - which was the intention: An AK round (7.62 x 39) in an AR platform where you only have to swap the barrel and no other parts.


There are certainly more potent rounds out there.

Orkinmna903
12-25-2012, 13:18
229898

This is why! 300 +lbs. through an through with a 150 gr ballistic tip. At least 20 inches or so of pure pig penetration. 20 or 30 rds depending on how you like your mag. I have shot them w/ .223 for years and the 300 outperforms it by leaps and bounds. For people protection probably not much difference, but for recovering game it is better.

offsidewing
12-25-2012, 13:37
The only reason I got into the AR platform was the 300 AAC Blackout. I've been very pleased with it both at the range and hunting. If all youre into is shooting paper and (deleted) the 556 NATO should be all you need. If you want to start using the AR platform to hunt , the 300 AAC Blackout is a caliber to consider at the distances that 99% of us couch comm andos can hit. No special bolts, mags, or parts needed. The 6.8mm Special Purpose Cartridge fanboys seem to be particularly sour to the 300 AAC Blackout, and I don't know why.

MarkCO
12-25-2012, 15:41
The 6.8mm Special Purpose Cartridge fanboys seem to be particularly sour to the 300 AAC Blackout, and I don't know why.

Simple. There are only so many people who want a cartridge other than the .223/5.56 in an AR15 platform. The popularity of the 300BO has taken suiters away from their favorite which makes it more difficult for them to use/promote the cartridge they like.

To some degree, same reason folks argue about .270/.308/.30-06. Why 7mmMag fans and .300WM fans argue about which is better.

Big Bird
12-25-2012, 18:27
Simple. There are only so many people who want a cartridge other than the .223/5.56 in an AR15 platform. The popularity of the 300BO has taken suiters away from their favorite which makes it more difficult for them to use/promote the cartridge they like.

To some degree, same reason folks argue about .270/.308/.30-06. Why 7mmMag fans and .300WM fans argue about which is better.

Naw...I ciuld care less if you want a .300BO. I went with the 6.8 for the very simple reason that I wanted superior deer killing ballistics over the 5.56.

A 6.8 will have 40% more energy than a 5.56 at all ranges and 70% of of the energy of a .308 at all ranges. Its a real 300 yard deer bullet in an AR. You cannot make those claims with the .300BO at any range in any loading.

JD Jones built a cartridge almost identical to the .300 BO back in the 1980s for use in Single Shot Pistols in metallic silhouette competition. It was called the .30 TCU. It was nothing more than a fire formed .223 case. It was underwhelming back then too... and never gained much popularity.

The reason the 6.8 wins is pure and simple. Case capacity. The 6.8 SPC will hold 50% more powder than a .300BO and there's nothing you can do to change that geometry.

The. .300 BO has one thing going in its favor and that's as a suppressed round using subsonic ammo. Basically its a little better than a pistol cartridge when used in that role. So if you want to shoot a 10-12" SBR Suppressed then its probably a top choice. But very few people actually do that.

Again, you want a .300 BO then by all means--scratch that itch. But if you REALLY want top shelf performance in a AR15 platform the only real non-wildcat option is the 6.8 SPC with a close second coming in with the 6.5 Grendal.

The .300 BO is very close to the energy you get with the 5.56 with the supersonic loads. Nobody with any sense is going to argue the .300 BO is any better than a 7.62X39 and nobody that hunts with a 7.62x39 will make the case that its a 300 yard deer gun. It isn't. But a 6.8 SPC has the velocity and energy to pull off a .300 yard humane kill on deer size game.

Orkinmna903
12-26-2012, 12:13
229909This picture begs to differ. 257 yds with a rangefinder. See the little box above the bumper? That's where I took the shot w/ my 16" blackout. If you're competent it can be done.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

03Cobra
12-26-2012, 12:33
I got my .300 blk for deer hunting as well. I know the 6.8 is better but being able to use my standard mags was a huge plus for me.

mgs
12-26-2012, 16:42
300 Black Out runs full auto nice with 18% more power than 5.56 with same bolt and mags. Recoil pulse less than 6.8 so it handles more like 5.56.

RetailNinjitsu
12-26-2012, 19:53
check out the hailey strategic youtube video on 300 blk. very informative.

MarkCO
12-26-2012, 20:26
I think Big Bird proved my point nicely. :)

cowboy1964
12-26-2012, 21:49
It's amazing how many people miss the point. Yes, the 6.8 may be better ballistically. But the 300 BLK's niche is magazine and bolt compatibility, as others have said. It just all depends on what you want to do. Ammo is a problem for both, IMO.

Big Bird
12-29-2012, 17:38
It's amazing how many people miss the point. Yes, the 6.8 may be better ballistically. But the 300 BLK's niche is magazine and bolt compatibility, as others have said. It just all depends on what you want to do. Ammo is a problem for both, IMO.


In a $2,000+ hunting rifle a $60 bolt is a moot point. In Kentucky you can only hunt with 10 round magazines so you end up buying hunting magazines anyhow. Overall, we are talking $100 or so difference in price for a bolt and mag.

03Cobra
12-29-2012, 20:08
this is turning into a .45 vs .40 thing; guess I'm on the .40 side once again. Bottom line is that both are great rounds, I chose the 300 blk and maybe if there is no ban, I'll chose 6.8 next time

mark68
12-29-2012, 22:54
i like my black out but it gets hard to find ammo sometimes.

DustyJacket
12-30-2012, 05:40
I had to get back into reloading because of the 300BLK

I gave that up 21 years ago.

Good news is, the current ammo buying spree does not impact me. Now the primer shortage.......

93GT
12-30-2012, 05:54
JD Jones built a cartridge almost identical to the .300 BO back in the 1980s for use in Single Shot Pistols in metallic silhouette competition. It was called the .30 TCU. It was nothing more than a fire formed .223 case. It was underwhelming back then too... and never gained much popularity.

The reason the 6.8 wins is pure and simple. Case capacity. The 6.8 SPC will hold 50% more powder than a .300BO and there's nothing you can do to change that geometry.

The. .300 BO has one thing going in its favor and that's as a suppressed round using subsonic ammo. Basically its a little better than a pistol cartridge when used in that role. So if you want to shoot a 10-12" SBR Suppressed then its probably a top choice. But very few people actually do that.

Again, you want a .300 BO then by all means--scratch that itch. But if you REALLY want top shelf performance in a AR15 platform the only real non-wildcat option is the 6.8 SPC with a close second coming in with the 6.5 Grendal.

The .300 BO is very close to the energy you get with the 5.56 with the supersonic loads. Nobody with any sense is going to argue the .300 BO is any better than a 7.62X39 and nobody that hunts with a 7.62x39 will make the case that its a 300 yard deer gun. It isn't. But a 6.8 SPC has the velocity and energy to pull off a .300 yard humane kill on deer size game.

In a $2,000+ hunting rifle a $60 bolt is a moot point. In Kentucky you can only hunt with 10 round magazines so you end up buying hunting magazines anyhow. Overall, we are talking $100 or so difference in price for a bolt and mag.

I wouldn't disagree with your assessment of the 6.8 being a better hunting cartridge at intermediate ranges. I do tend to disagree with you that the only thing a 300 has to offer is the ability to shine in a subsonic form out of a suppressed SBR. If 175+ plus shots are likely, then 6.8 SPC really shines.

Just to provide an example of where I enjoy my 300 over my 6.8. I already own .308 caliber rifles that I reload for, have plenty of 223 cases to last me a lifetime and I may or may not own a few AR-15's. Moving into a 300 BLK was simply buying an upper, dies, and some new powder.

Moving to the 6.8, same plus I use a dedicated BCG instead swapping the bolt each time. No ability to fire heavier slower bullets due to rate of twist. Needed new magazines and no ability to use existing cases. The positive is more hunting bullets already exist within that velocity range/caliber, and it is better at longer ranges.

JD Jones did develop the 300 whisper, it was a cut/fireformed 221 case from what I recall. It didn't catch on because it was trademarked and never commercially loaded. I was arguably one of the most popular wildcat rounds for an AR-15 in recent memory. I sat around for 15 years as a casual shooter nearly pulling the trigger on an upper in 300 whisper, but I wasn't a reloader at the time. It wasn't the concept of the round that kept me from investing, it was the fact that I shot commercial ammo and only went through a few hundred round a year due to income. Once I made a little more green and someone made a SAAMI approved commercial version, it took me less than a year to pick one up. Now I pretty well reload for it exclusively, so the initial reason I hadn't picked one up turned out to be moot. It still kept me from pulling the trigger for a decade and a half. The fact that I can take a 110 grain Barnes TSX or VMAX, a 150 grain Nosler BT, or a 240 grain Sierra MK and get the round to cycle through and AR-15 without further adjustments, just a mag change is amazing to me. The fact that factory ammunition is made that covers 110 to 220 is just an additional advantage.

I will admit, if I were to have only one AR-15 for hunting medium size game, I think it would be 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, then the 300 BLK followed closely by a 6mm/223.

Gunnut 45/454
12-30-2012, 10:51
Big Bird
6.8

110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H322 .277" 2.260" 27.0 2571 47,600 PSI 29.0C 2697 53,600 PSI
115 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H322 .277" 2.260" 26.0 2421 43,500 PSI 28.2C 2608 53,300 PSI
300 Blk
110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.040" 18.9 2248 31.000 CUP 20.0 2388 37,600 CUP
115 GR. BER TGT FB Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.050" 18.9 2235 32,600 CUP 20.5 2393 39,900 CUP

When comparing apples to apples the 6.8 doesn't have very much over the 300 Blk
If one was to use the loadings above for deer/pig hunting do you think either would know the difference. Still want to claim your 6.8 is a 300 yard deer killer? And what is your barrel length? Is it 20" or 24" cause the 6.8 data is shown is from a 22" barrel! Now run a 16" or shorter like the 300 Blk. Now where is your 6.8? At or below the 300 Blk.:rofl:

Big Bird
12-30-2012, 16:31
Big Bird
6.8

110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H322 .277" 2.260" 27.0 2571 47,600 PSI 29.0C 2697 53,600 PSI
115 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H322 .277" 2.260" 26.0 2421 43,500 PSI 28.2C 2608 53,300 PSI
300 Blk
110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.040" 18.9 2248 31.000 CUP 20.0 2388 37,600 CUP
115 GR. BER TGT FB Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.050" 18.9 2235 32,600 CUP 20.5 2393 39,900 CUP

When comparing apples to apples the 6.8 doesn't have very much over the 300 Blk
If one was to use the loadings above for deer/pig hunting do you think either would know the difference. Still want to claim your 6.8 is a 300 yard deer killer? And what is your barrel length? Is it 20" or 24" cause the 6.8 data is shown is from a 22" barrel! Now run a 16" or shorter like the 300 Blk. Now where is your 6.8? At or below the 300 Blk.:rofl:

Run those numbers for the 6.8 with a 85 grain TSX at 3,000 fps or a 95 grain Accubond at 2900 fps and get back to me. Compare max point blank range for both cartridges. Its not close. Those are very conservative numbers too. I'm using AA 2200 in my loads and haven't even started to see pressure signs.

AK_Stick
12-30-2012, 16:50
Big Bird
6.8

110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H322 .277" 2.260" 27.0 2571 47,600 PSI 29.0C 2697 53,600 PSI
115 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H322 .277" 2.260" 26.0 2421 43,500 PSI 28.2C 2608 53,300 PSI
300 Blk
110 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.040" 18.9 2248 31.000 CUP 20.0 2388 37,600 CUP
115 GR. BER TGT FB Hodgdon Lil'Gun .308" 2.050" 18.9 2235 32,600 CUP 20.5 2393 39,900 CUP

When comparing apples to apples the 6.8 doesn't have very much over the 300 Blk
If one was to use the loadings above for deer/pig hunting do you think either would know the difference. Still want to claim your 6.8 is a 300 yard deer killer? And what is your barrel length? Is it 20" or 24" cause the 6.8 data is shown is from a 22" barrel! Now run a 16" or shorter like the 300 Blk. Now where is your 6.8? At or below the 300 Blk.:rofl:


I see nearly 3,000 fps from a 85 grain TSX in my 18 inch tube. Only lose about 190 fps going to a 16 inch.

Dropped a caribou at a touch under 250 this year with a high spine/shoulder hit. So yes, id say 300 capable on deer.

DustyJacket
12-30-2012, 17:43
Still working the bugs out, but here is one of my better groups today with the 300 BLK.

It was 43 degrees and very very windy, with some 5mhp lulls in between 25+ mph gusts I would guess.

6 shot group at 50 yards. Not as good as my .308 bolt gun which made large 1-hole groups at 100 yards, but acceptable.

208gr HPBT bullets about 1,050 fps.

http://www.dustyjacket.com/images/300BLK-50yd.jpg

gunslinger g21
01-04-2013, 19:56
300 Blackout:
I can cast hard lead alloy bullets that shoot very well
have 30+ 30rd mags 10 or so 20rd
More brass + can use the 223/5.56 brass that SWAT and FBI litter my range with
No special parts (can pull bolt and carrier from any millspec M4 if necessary)
Loads of high performance hunting bullets out there
Steel core bullets can be had if needed
BBL life is longer (lead)

Gunnut 45/454
01-05-2013, 10:22
AK_Stick
And I wouldn't think twice about wacking that same caribou at that range with a 150 gr SP or a 130 gr SP out of my 300 Blk. Something the 6.8 can't shoot!:supergrin:

gunslinger g21
01-05-2013, 13:08
They run suppressed like an MP5 with 1000lb of energy, and give a High velocity type wound. There is a little tuneing to switch from suppressed 950 fps 225 gr lead to a 130gr @2400fps. A piston is the way to go, but an adjustable gas system can be fitted. With the piston you don't have the gas in the face, which impairs vision and breathing when not using a gasmask. This is the only non 5.56 caliber I would use in the millspec. The 300AAC pretty much eliminates the need for pistol calliber in my kit room. 6.8 is OK, but not enough gain over the 77OTM for me to need the calliber specific parts and gear that has to go with it. Maybee a .50 BW being the only other. A 7.62x51 such as the SR25 being a whole differant platform with no interchangeability for long range rapid fire engagements.

For a collector or enthusiast, get every and all the differant callibers for the AR platform. This is for fun. For an operator / security specialist, 5.56 and 300AAC for the millspec and 7.62x51 will be all that I will ever need. I like to keep my kit interchangeable with other operators in units and have more of the same parts in the armory. For changing mission details one complete system such as supp 30AAC to complete stealth op and a 20" upper in 5.56 77OTM for overwatch during extraction or ... same bolt, same mags, 30AAC in one type mag and some 20rd for the SPR.
Less gun weight = more ammo or other kit.

AK_Stick
01-05-2013, 14:29
AK_Stick
And I wouldn't think twice about wacking that same caribou at that range with a 150 gr SP or a 130 gr SP out of my 300 Blk. Something the 6.8 can't shoot!:supergrin:

Oh the horror, you've got like a whole 10 grains over my VLDs.


I fail to see the point your attempting to get at, other than proving you are emotionally invested in attempting to defend your choice of the poorer performing alternate supersonic rounds.


The 300 is great surpressed, but it lacks the supersonic use of the 6.8. Really depends on what you want.

gunslinger g21
01-05-2013, 19:17
The 6.8 has more TOP END, but the millitary abandoned it for the 77grOTM probably due to logistics and cost. The CCAG boys have their choice of any system on teh planet and either use the KA SR25 or the SOPMOD in 5.56 with the 77OTM for longer range and the M855 for MOUW I have not run tests on the 6.8. I would like to see the wound potential on 2leg varmints at both long and short range. I would like to see also how the target falls after being hit in differant spots (pelvis, COM, brain stem) Gel has its place, but no test like the real thing. I do believe that some operators have used this round and there was something about it they didnt like. For the record I am sure some ops or PMC op is using a platform in 6.8. I wonder if FN has made a SCAR in 6.8 for real world use. It just seems to me that there is no magic bullet effect in 6.8, and if you look past the numbers the 7.62x39 has killed more 2 leg animals than any other round. Does that make the mighty AK round the best war fighting round? NO, It is used by US forces probably more than is realized by the sport shooter, or LEO.

This search for an edge in ballistics, accurcy, and all out stopping power is what makes some of us tick. There is no end. What worked today on #1 @ PT5b will not work under the same exact enviornment the same any 2 times. I will shoot what METTC, experiance, aviability is teh best choice for me. What works for me may not work for you. Modern combat arms are all good to a degree and have faults to a degree that makes it an educated decision that we all hope gives us that last little nanobit of an edge up on our target.

Lots of resources and time have gone into finding the golden gun, to only find there is no golden gun.

Big Bird
01-05-2013, 20:24
The 6.8 has more TOP END, but the millitary abandoned it for the 77grOTM probably due to logistics and cost. The CCAG boys have their choice of any system on teh planet and either use the KA SR25 or the SOPMOD in 5.56 with the 77OTM for longer range and the M855 for MOUW I have not run tests on the 6.8. I would like to see the wound potential on 2leg varmints at both long and short range. I would like to see also how the target falls after being hit in differant spots (pelvis, COM, brain stem) Gel has its place, but no test like the real thing. I do believe that some operators have used this round and there was something about it they didnt like. For the record I am sure some ops or PMC op is using a platform in 6.8. I wonder if FN has made a SCAR in 6.8 for real world use. It just seems to me that there is no magic bullet effect in 6.8, and if you look past the numbers the 7.62x39 has killed more 2 leg animals than any other round. Does that make the mighty AK round the best war fighting round? NO, It is used by US forces probably more than is realized by the sport shooter, or LEO.

This search for an edge in ballistics, accurcy, and all out stopping power is what makes some of us tick. There is no end. What worked today on #1 @ PT5b will not work under the same exact enviornment the same any 2 times. I will shoot what METTC, experiance, aviability is teh best choice for me. What works for me may not work for you. Modern combat arms are all good to a degree and have faults to a degree that makes it an educated decision that we all hope gives us that last little nanobit of an edge up on our target.

Lots of resources and time have gone into finding the golden gun, to only find there is no golden gun.


If you go back and do some reading into the optimum infantry cartridge its no secret that lots and lots of tests etc have all come to the same conclusion. The optimum infantry round fires a .275 caliber bullet weighing around 115 grains running around 2500-2600 fps. The old infantry board determined this as far back as the 1930's and the original M1 Garand was designed around the .276 Pederson cartridge with a 10 shot en-bloc clip. Several other nations have come to a similar conclusion but very few countries have ever got around to actually fielding a round that met those specs for various reason. For example, the M1 Garand was redesigned to use the 30/06 8 shot clip because COS of the Army MacArthur thought it unwise to adopt a new cartridge when the country was on the verge of war.

When some folks were trying to reinvent the wheel about ten years ago they came up with the 6.8 SPC and guess what...its a .277 bullet weighing 115 grains at 2500 fps. It was never adopted for a host of reasons but field performance had nothing to do with it.

dkf
01-05-2013, 21:02
I would rather have a 6.5 Grendel over either for hunting. I can surely see the appeal of both the 6.8 and blk however.

gunslinger g21
01-05-2013, 22:47
I remember something about that. .270 is 6.8. In the 30s jacket and suppressor technology was not near as is today. I thought org chamber was .270 for M1? It is fun to debate these issues. I like the small high velocity rounds for intermediate range (75-300yds) the frag effect of the 5.56 is so devistating. This is what I would like to see what the 6.8 does. I am sure a bullet can be made to frag in 6.8. The 55gr does so much damage to soft watery tissue @ CQC ranges and penetrates less sheet rock than 115 9mm. (Hostage rescue, arrest/Prisoner snatch) The 30AAC 220lrn penetrates sheet rock more than a 55gr 5.56, but still less than a 9mm. Not sure of how a .30 225grLRN acts in actual living tissue (frag/ prob not; over penetration/ prob does well @900fps or so) The 5.56 is weak on hard cover, the 30AAC prev mentioned is little worse at all but PBR.

How many layers of sheetrock does a 110gr @ max velocity penetrate at CQC ranges. I dont have my energy and physics calculator handy so just a guess, more than 9mm. What about ability to penetrate soft armor (the profile and size of teh 5.56 helps here)

If the logistics and maintance issue (parts, not reliability issues) were null do you think there would be a following in the SOF units. Maybee, iI am sure there is a place for it where it would shine. If someone could get a reliable mag that feeds both 5.56 and 6.8 this would help its demand.

There is a following for every gun, and every caliber. Many think the 7.92 is best man killer. For long range trench to trench work it may be. Whoever comes up with the golden bullet will be a very sought after man or woman, as every nation will want this, the bullet that stops agressor every time 1 shot.

Gunnut 45/454
01-06-2013, 10:36
AK_Stick
The point is it is pointless to compare the 300 Blk with the 6.8! The point is one can have the 300 Blk with a simple upper/barrel change vs upper /barrel plus bolt plus mag change of the 6.8. The point is the 300 Blk will do almost every thing the 6.8 will do. So there is really no point to aurgue over it! Now if one wants to match or exceed the 6.8 one could also go to the 7.62X40 or 30 Rem which is more then equal to the 6.8! I choose the 300 blk cause it fits the way I hunt and use the AR platform. Enjoy your 6.8 cause I surely love shooting my 300 Blk.:supergrin:

gunslinger g21
01-06-2013, 11:01
We all have our favorites. The differant calibers and balistics complement each others when several calliber arms are combined is one unit. It is not really pratical because of logistics. What a nightmare to supply 50 troopers with 30 differant systems and callibers twist rate bullet WT nad length. bBut you have every ballistic situation covered.

Washington combined musketers with riflemen for the first time in the history of warfare. First combined arms units and tatics.