Terrible Road Rage [Archive] - Glock Talk

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slickt0mmy
12-22-2012, 09:45
Unbelievable road rage attack - YouTube

What would you have done?

beatcop
12-22-2012, 10:04
Two dunces...I hate to say it.

Fail to pull over and wonder why guy follows you.
Aggressor was clearly out of line.

Pull over after a "plain" accident and report it to the police...don't look like you're trying to evade. The rest was just so far out of line you aren't coming up with any "plan"...just don't endanger the other members of the public with your driving.

NMG26
12-22-2012, 10:08
Shoot his tire.



.

robhic
12-22-2012, 10:42
Who has their antennae on the "bonnet" of the car? :wow:

CitizenOfDreams
12-22-2012, 11:20
Who has their antennae on the "bonnet" of the car? :wow:

That's not an antenna, that's an aerial.

fuzzy03cls
12-22-2012, 15:09
What would you have done?
Several rounds downrange... oh wait they banned guns...

TBO
12-22-2012, 15:31
You never know what you might start when you brake check someone.

Bill Lumberg
12-22-2012, 15:33
It's an awesome moment. Babes in the woods. Babes in the woods.



I gotta turble rage.



You never know what you might start when you brake check someone.

Dukeboy01
12-22-2012, 16:20
So, Mad Max times have finally come to Australian roads. Surprised it took this long.

Mad Max 2 Opening Chase - YouTube


Australian Cultural heritage explained:

Flight of the Conchords Keitha round 2 - YouTube

Darkangel1846
12-22-2012, 16:26
I would have kicked him in the nuts

Drain You
12-22-2012, 18:29
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3017/yutes2.jpg

Lord
12-22-2012, 19:10
Two dunces...I hate to say it.

Fail to pull over and wonder why guy follows you.
Aggressor was clearly out of line.

Pull over after a "plain" accident and report it to the police...don't look like you're trying to evade. The rest was just so far out of line you aren't coming up with any "plan"...just don't endanger the other members of the public with your driving.

Two dunces is correct. First, the aggressor in the black car. the other is you. This guy (victim) was doing everything he could do to get away from the aggressor who was clearly bent on causing property and possibly bodily harm. I would have attempted to get away from him at first, but as soon as he made it clear that he was not going to stop, I'm afraid that it would be time to stand my ground.

beatcop
12-22-2012, 20:57
Two dunces is correct. First, the aggressor in the black car. the other is you. This guy (victim) was doing everything he could do to get away from the aggressor who was clearly bent on causing property and possibly bodily harm. I would have attempted to get away from him at first, but as soon as he made it clear that he was not going to stop, I'm afraid that it would be time to stand my ground.

hahaha......good stuff. Feel free to let us all know how many incidents like this you've experienced...I can count a few low-speed pursuits in my cruiser. As mentioned by the more astute among us, what happened prior to the footage being showed? Brake check? Maybe, maybe not.

When you're involved in an accident you pull to the right (usa) and wait for the police. As I stated the "aggressor" was totally and utterly out of line, however during the first few moments he pulled along side the victim and pointed...apparently indicating that he should pull over. Based on "only" what was available on the vid, he should have at least pulled over and determined if the guy was a loon. If you have to bluff, yell over and say the police are already on the way...follow me to the commuter lot or whatever.

As far as his driving, the faster you go, the more likely death will result when an accident occurs. You're not outrunning anyone. I've pursued enough cars to realize what technique works and which ends with a collision.

On a side note, in car recorders can be had for around $50 now. Not a bad investment...may clear up some things.

NEOH212
12-22-2012, 21:42
I would have waited until he was between his vehicle and mine.

Then he would be unable to move until the police got there!

:supergrin:

jph02
12-22-2012, 21:44
...On a side note, in car recorders can be had for around $50 now. Not a bad investment...may clear up some things.
I've got an in-car recorder aimed out my windscreen that runs whenever my vehicle is on for this very reason. There are far too many loons on the road these days...

Gunnut 45/454
12-23-2012, 12:58
Yep selfdefense is illegal in Aussy town now a days! You must be a victim. Mr. Road rage would have caught a few rounds here! Funny you only see this type of behavior in the Gunfree zones here as well I wonder why?:whistling:

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 14:00
Shoot his tire.



.

Very good idea!

Lord
12-23-2012, 14:56
hahaha......good stuff. Feel free to let us all know how many incidents like this you've experienced...I can count a few low-speed pursuits in my cruiser. As mentioned by the more astute among us, what happened prior to the footage being showed? Brake check? Maybe, maybe not.


First, twice I have encountered something similar, though not quite to the maniacal capacity as the aggressor in this particular video.

Second, the more astute of us would know that it is "footage being shown, not showed, so when you're going to attempt to call someone out and allude to them not being as intelligent as you, make sure you're intelligent enough to make that work for you.

Third, it doesn't matter what parts we have not seen. I know of no incidents that actually make it ok for the aggressor to act as he did. Even if it were an accident that the "victim" was trying to flee from, we've spoken QUITE OFTEN of it here on GT that pursuing is not a good idea in the best of circumstances. If you're involved in a hit and run as the victim, the best course of action would be for you to record everything, license plate etc, and report it to the police... not go on and act like a crazy person and place yourself in the position of being the aggressor where the possible use of deadly force may be authorized against you due to your insane actions.

If you were LEO, and astute, you would know this.

Lord
12-23-2012, 14:58
I've got an in-car recorder aimed out my windscreen that runs whenever my vehicle is on for this very reason. There are far too many loons on the road these days...

Police think an in car recorder is a terrific idea up until you catch them on video breaking the law, giving bogus tickets, and disgracing their position of office. before the flaming starts, head over to youtube and watch the thousands of videos posted of police acting criminally themselves.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 15:07
What would everyone here do if you were the victim in this video and you had a handgun. I would likely shoot out one of the criminal's tires.

Lord
12-23-2012, 15:14
What would everyone here do if you were the victim in this video and you had a handgun. I would likely shoot out one of the criminal's tires.

Shooting out a tire here, I believe is illegal. As I stated in a prev post, after attempting to get away from this guy a number of times, and his making it perfectly obvious that he has no intention of giving up and maybe causing me harm/death, I would have to stop and "stand my ground", first letting him see that I am armed, and if he persists, then stopping the threat.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 15:42
Shooting out a tire here, I believe is illegal. As I stated in a prev post, after attempting to get away from this guy a number of times, and his making it perfectly obvious that he has no intention of giving up and maybe causing me harm/death, I would have to stop and "stand my ground", first letting him see that I am armed, and if he persists, then stopping the threat.

Shooting out his tire is preferable to shooting out his heart.

TBO
12-23-2012, 15:55
In my, and many other states, shooting at an occupied motor vehicle is the same as shooting at the person inside the motor vehicle.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 16:00
In my, and many other states, shooting at an occupied motor vehicle is the same as shooting at the person inside the motor vehicle.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

If so then the result of shooting out a tire would be torn and damaged tire, and not torn and damaged humans.

jph02
12-23-2012, 17:41
If so then the result of shooting out a tire would be torn and damaged tire, and not torn and damaged humans.
Show of hands, how many here are such good shots they can shoot out the tire of a moving vehicle while driving and attempting to avoid a collision with that very same vehicle and others on the road? Never mind how many rounds you might send ricocheting off into who knows where before you actually hit the tire... :dunno:

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 17:51
Show of hands, how many here are such good shots they can shoot out the tire of a moving vehicle while driving and attempting to avoid a collision with that very same vehicle and others on the road? Never mind how many rounds you might send ricocheting off into who knows where before you actually hit the tire... :dunno:

It would be very difficult, but I could do it with my G17 with one or two shots. I would stop my car first.

TBO
12-23-2012, 17:58
:popcorn:

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 18:07
:popcorn:

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2

So what does popcorn have to do with this discussion?

G26AZ
12-23-2012, 18:29
So, what happens when YOU shoot out his tire, his car goes out of control and into on-coming traffic and takes out a van full of nuns carrying infant orphans in their arms?

Glock30Eric
12-23-2012, 18:41
Do like the Russian's style to address the road rage situation by pulling the durgo AK out of the window.

http://vodashare.com/blog/2012/09/ak-47-road-rage-russia/

(He should be thankful that he didn't had to face the russian's style to address the road rage in above and below links.)

And this

http://youtu.be/IMjnQ1dvlJM

NMG26
12-23-2012, 19:06
So, what happens when YOU shoot out his tire, his car goes out of control and into on-coming traffic and takes out a van full of nuns carrying infant orphans in their arms?

I was really joking with the tire shooting but....................


I'm stopped, he's stopped and hopping out of his vehicle. I lean out my window and take up a good aim on a front tire and hit it with one shot.

Pretty sure I'd be arrested, but it would deescalate the situation. I think it would take all the fight out of him as I am driving off.......................maybe not?

Note: Don't try this for reel. You will be arrested.

Dukeboy01
12-23-2012, 19:09
It would be very difficult, but I could do it with my G17 with one or two shots. I would stop my car first.

:rofl:

Police Dashcam Pursuit Driver On Flat Tire! - YouTube

The tire in that pursuit was already flat before the police tried to stop him. It was the PC for the stop in the first place. Yet the driver continued on for several miles.

If you truly believe that you can stop a car by A.) Shooting out the tires and B.) shoot out the tire in only one or two shots, you are :pjmn: ed.

Reswob
12-23-2012, 19:46
Shooting out his tire is preferable to shooting out his heart.

Not legally. Most places, if you draw, you better be justified to use deadly force.

Glock30Eric
12-23-2012, 19:51
Not legally. Most places, if you draw, you better be justified to use deadly force.

Yup, if you had to fire then shoot to kill.

packsaddle
12-23-2012, 20:00
Show of hands, how many here are such good shots they can shoot out the tire of a moving vehicle while driving and attempting to avoid a collision with that very same vehicle and others on the road?

don't you know?

everybody on glock talk is a 6'4" 280lb firearms marksman, idpa champion, black belt martial artist, swat member, golden gloves boxer, ex-special forces, legal expert, etc.

i thought it was common knowledge here.

SCmasterblaster
12-23-2012, 20:08
So, what happens when YOU shoot out his tire, his car goes out of control and into on-coming traffic and takes out a van full of nuns carrying infant orphans in their arms?

My Glock may have a overloaded cartridge as well, and my Glock blows up.

beatcop
12-24-2012, 08:12
deleted

beatcop
12-24-2012, 09:57
Two dunces is correct. First, the aggressor in the black car. the other is you.

1-First you call me a dunce.

..when you're going to attempt to call someone out and allude to them not being as intelligent as you, make sure you're intelligent enough to make that work for you.

2-Then you feign the victim. The more astute among us posted this:

You never know what you might start when you brake check someone.

3-Then you proceed to spell-check me.

GO AWAY TROLL

jph02
12-24-2012, 10:05
So, what happens when YOU shoot out his tire, his car goes out of control and into on-coming traffic and takes out a van full of nuns carrying infant orphans in their arms?
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Everyone knows the nuns will go to jail because the orphans should have been in child seats.

willy1094
12-26-2012, 19:06
Yup, if you had to fire then shoot to kill.

You shoot to stop the threat, not to kill. Once the threat has stopped you may find yourself on trial if you go in for the kill. I would imagine you would be able to defend firing your weapon to disable a vehicle and getting away as opposed to taking a life if you were able to prove that the person was a risk to your life. That would most likely require video. However, I agree that shooting a tire out would not prevent the person from pursuing.

Glock30Eric
12-26-2012, 19:08
You shoot to stop the threat, not to kill. Once the threat has stopped you may find yourself on trial if you go in for the kill.

Masad said, shoot to kill to eliminate the threat.

willy1094
12-26-2012, 19:26
Masad said, shoot to kill to eliminate the threat.

I guess Masad also said that all your legal fees will be paid if you find yourself on trial for murder? I am not arguing that you should not be shooting vital areas of you attacker. I'm just saying that once your attacker is down and out of the fight, you have no legal right to assure they are dead. It is an extreme but I recall the thread about the man who executed the two kids that broke into his home. He made sure they were dead and is surely to be convicted of manslaughter. We are not executioners.

Glock30Eric
12-26-2012, 19:32
I guess Masad also said that all your legal fees will be paid if you find yourself on trial for murder? I am not arguing that you should not be shooting vital areas of you attacker. I'm just saying that once your attacker is down and out of the fight, you have no legal right to assure they are dead. It is an extreme but I recall the thread about the man who executed the two kids that broke into his home. He made sure they were dead and is surely to be convicted of manslaughter. We are not executioners.

He said once you fire a bullet out of your gun, you have to expect to lose all your assets over the legal fee, etc. You will have to weight the valuable of your life versus the expenses that you are expecting from a threat.

It depends on everything on the day he shot the kids. It is important to know everything before you shoot and try to convince the juries that your life was in an immediately danger.

NOGIBJJ
12-26-2012, 19:33
He had a dash cam... and plenty recorded by the time he backed up and rammed him.

In KY, the BG had already committed assault or attempted murder multiple times when tried to run him off the road. The GG was trying to get away from the BG.

The BG iced his own cake well when he backed up and rammed him again, climbed on the hood and caved in the window.

...it was time my friend. It was time.

%

willy1094
12-26-2012, 19:45
He said once you fire a bullet out of your gun, you have to expect to lose all your assets over the legal fee, etc. You will have to weight the valuable of your life versus the expenses that you are expecting from a threat.

It depends on everything on the day he shot the kids. It is important to know everything before you shoot and try to convince the juries that your life was in an immediately danger.

I may not be getting my point out clearly. All I am saying is you have no legal or moral right to kill someone that may still be alive after you have stopped the threat against your life. The thread I was talking about the guy shot the first kid as he came down some steps into his basement. The kid was still alive and the guy walked up to him (laying on the ground) and shot him in the head. He then waited for the second kid to come down the steps. He shot her and then walked up to her (again, laying on the ground and no threat) and put a gun under her chin and pulled the trigger. Once there is no threat, you have NO legal right to pull the trigger. Anyone that thinks they do should not be carrying. While shooting someone will likely kill them, the ultimate goal it simply to stop the threat to your life, nothing more. The guy in this video would have every right to fire (in the U.S.) until the threat was over.

Glock30Eric
12-26-2012, 19:48
I may not be getting my point out clearly. All I am saying is you have no legal or moral right to kill someone that may still be alive after you have stopped the threat against your life. The thread I was talking about the guy shot the first kid as he came down some steps into his basement. The kid was still alive and the guy walked up to him (laying on the ground) and shot him in the head. He then waited for the second kid to come down the steps. He shot her and then walked up to her (again, laying on the ground and no threat) and put a gun under her chin and pulled the trigger. Once there is no threat, you have NO legal right to pull the trigger. Anyone that thinks they do should not be carrying. While shooting someone will likely kill them, the ultimate goal it simply to stop the threat to your life, nothing more. The guy in this video would have every right to fire (in the U.S.) until the threat was over.

Yeah I agree with you. It only take less than 1 sec to kill a man with 3 or 4 holes in his body.

willy1094
12-26-2012, 20:05
Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like I disagreed with you because that is not the case. I just don't really care for the "shoot to kill" phrase because some people take that literally. I understand telling someone new to the idea of deadly force to shoot with the aim of killing. You don't want to put out the idea of trying to wing someone and you want to stress the impact a shoot will most likely have, DEATH. After you have been carrying for a while and hopefully reading up you it is safe enough to start saying that you shoot to stop the threat. Stay safe, stay alive!

jdavionic
12-26-2012, 20:07
What would I do? Well, I'd avoid a confrontation from the onset. I suspect something triggered the events on the tape that may have involved the 'victim' acting inappropriately. Obviously that's not always the case and certainly doesn't justify the actions of the aggressors.

With all that said, most road rage incidents (IMHO) involve two participants. Like you've heard before...don't write checks your body can't cash. In road rage incidents, think about the incident and the possible outcome before responding...do you think it's worth your life, a life of your passenger(s), his life, jail time, lawyer fees, etc...to express your displeasure with some jerk's driving? Whether you want it to end that way or not, once an incident has been triggered, the outcome can go well beyond your desired outcome.

beatcop
12-26-2012, 20:27
Shoot to stop behavior...bottom line is the lawyer/prosecutor will apply a weasel words standard to establish intent if things go bad.

Your mantra should be "I shot to stop......".

The technique is to draw you down the trail of defining what constitutes deadly force...so, you used force which was likely to cause death?
Yes.
So your intent was to kill?
Uh....

You choose to to stop an unlawfull attack with that force which was reasonable and necessary. Any death caused by such force is an unfortunate byproduct....the aggressor can choose to stop at any time, so it appears that the crook has continued in the face of a lethal defense...goes to the heart of the crooks intent, which is to kill.

willy1094
12-26-2012, 20:33
Shoot to stop behavior...bottom line is the lawyer/prosecutor will apply a weasel words standard to establish intent if things go bad.

Your mantra should be "I shot to stop......".

The technique is to draw you down the trail of defining what constitutes deadly force...so, you used force which was likely to cause death?
Yes.
So your intent was to kill?
Uh....

You choose to to stop an unlawfull attack with that force which was reasonable and necessary. Any death caused by such force is an unfortunate byproduct....the aggressor can choose to stop at any time, so it appears that the crook has continued in the face of a lethal defense...goes to the heart of the crooks intent, which is to kill.

Perfectly stated! I do admit that I have a hard time explaining what is going on in my head at times.

jdavionic, I did a search on your road rage and couldn't find it. Do you have the link so I can read it?

jdavionic
12-26-2012, 21:22
Perfectly stated! I do admit that I have a hard time explaining what is going on in my head at times.

jdavionic, I did a search on your road rage and couldn't find it. Do you have the link so I can read it?

Sorry, no. I didn't want to distract from the OP (i.e., hijack the thread), so I deleted the reference. However I can PM you some details if you like.

willy1094
12-26-2012, 21:33
Sorry, no. I didn't want to distract from the OP (i.e., hijack the thread), so I deleted the reference. However I can PM you some details if you like.

please do, thanks

SCC
12-27-2012, 14:09
Following a dramatic road rage attack that was captured on camera, a driver who went berserk handed himself in to police but says that he's actually the ...

Road rager hands himself in - YouTube

steveksux
12-27-2012, 14:22
So, what happens when YOU shoot out his tire, his car goes out of control and into on-coming traffic and takes out a van full of nuns carrying infant orphans in their arms?

Ticket the nuns for not having the orphans in carseats?

Randy


posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

FlCracker70
12-27-2012, 14:33
I realized that this is a concealed carry site but my opinion is that too many responses are to respond with your sidearm. It seems pretty silly to me to pull my gun / roll down the window to a madman, all while sitting in my car.

What I would do is try to avoid / escape the first time he gets out of the car. The next time he tries it, I run his ass over. Seems far less likely to go bad.

Pretty scary stuff.

beatcop
12-27-2012, 16:29
I realized that this is a concealed carry site but my opinion is that too many responses are to respond with your sidearm. It seems pretty silly to me to pull my gun / roll down the window to a madman, all while sitting in my car.

What I would do is try to avoid / escape the first time he gets out of the car. The next time he tries it, I run his ass over. Seems far less likely to go bad.

Pretty scary stuff.

We should sticky the "best practices" sometime. No one wants their property dinged, dented and smashed by a loon, that's for sure, but you can't shoot anyone over thumping your bumper at less than 10mph. Well, you can do anything you want, but I'd guess the prosecutor will say that the likelihood of serious injury is pretty slim. If you are being rammed at higher speeds, I'd have to re-evaluate that position.

Your goal should be to contact 911, stay moving at a slow speed...enough to draw attention from all future witnesses, and just maintain a steady course toward the nearest PD/ safe area. I'd be tempted to do a little dodging myself, but if your car is damaged, a low "performer", or you lack the skill-set to handle it you could put yourself and others in danger...I really don't want to get PIT'd by a guy who's seen it on cops.

The training I have received advised to avoid shooting cars in motion...they become unguided missiles that keep going. Yeah, you could probably render it inoperable, but you don't want some loon to be the first to call 911 and report you are actually ramming him and brandishing.

Save the shooting for when your life is in danger from an immediate threat...if the guy is walking to your car and you can drive away, it's not a deadly force encounter.

Plenty of folks have dropped their pistols when they were involved in an accident. The classic Miami shootout is a pretty good example...guns flying into the footwell, glasses flying off, etc. Leave the gun in the holster when you are driving & don't hang a pistol out the window, you'll have a hard time picking it up when you get rammed.

robhic
12-27-2012, 17:20
Save the shooting for when your life is in danger from an immediate threat...if the guy is walking to your car and you can drive away, it's not a deadly force encounter.

Very sage advice. A gun is a bit much, even in the face of this madman! He wasn't armed and you're inside a 2000 lb weapon of sorts, yourself.

NOGIBJJ
12-27-2012, 18:01
I realized that this is a concealed carry site but my opinion is that too many responses are to respond with your sidearm. It seems pretty silly to me to pull my gun / roll down the window to a madman, all while sitting in my car.

What I would do is try to avoid / escape the first time he gets out of the car. The next time he tries it, I run his ass over. Seems far less likely to go bad.

Pretty scary stuff.


The scary stuff is being chased or tailgated or run off the road or into another car. Or pulling over, stopping, and taking off again in some dangerous cat and mouse game on a public highway.

I will politely pull over one time, turn on my VCR, and call 911. If instead of going on about his business - he chooses to stop, get out and menacingly approach my car - he may receive a hot shower from a family size OC canister.

From that point forward, his videoed life story and well being will appropriately remain his call.


^