Nerd Question... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruggles
12-22-2012, 20:38
Which one rules?

http://i48.tinypic.com/6ixlbr.png

or

http://i45.tinypic.com/1smrux.jpg

I vote Viper, and I mean old school Richard Hatch Viper baby! :supergrin:

Dragoon44
12-22-2012, 20:41
Viper, hands down.

NeverMore1701
12-22-2012, 20:45
Viper's about a million times more maneuverable. Can't really compare speed and such though. Also can't say how a Viper's cannons would fare against the X-Wing's shields.

BEER
12-22-2012, 20:50
vipers don't have to change configuration to go into attack mode, and the x-wings were never piloted by Kara thrace so i have no reason to sniff the seat in any x-wing.

DanaT
12-22-2012, 20:50
Lets not forget that the X-wings torpedoes can take down a death star.

Have you ever seen a viper take out a Base Star with one shot?

NeverMore1701
12-22-2012, 20:51
Lets not forget that the X-wings torpedoes can take down a death star.

Have you ever seen a viper take out a Base Star with one shot?

Have you ever seen a Base Star with a LOS track straight to the reactor?

Dragoon44
12-22-2012, 20:53
Lets not forget that the X-wings torpedoes can take down a death star.

Have you ever seen a viper take out a Base Star with one shot?

But that is only true if you use the force after flying down thru a totally spurious canyon on the death star with a straight shot at the reactor..

waves hand, "this is not the death star you are looking for"

:cool:

Dragoon44
12-22-2012, 20:55
Have you ever seen a Base Star with a LOS track straight to the reactor?

I think the architect got the ol Vader death pinch after that one.

:rofl::rofl:

Dragoon44
12-22-2012, 20:59
Have you ever seen a Base Star with a LOS track straight to the reactor?

well, this was a govt. built project wasn't it?

:rofl::rofl:

el_jewapo
12-22-2012, 21:03
http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/e5fa0b03ed602057bd35986f68bde416.jpg

Ruggles
12-22-2012, 21:08
http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/e5fa0b03ed602057bd35986f68bde416.jpg

Looks like he just paid $90 for a PMag......and got the free included rectum insertion of it.......

NeverMore1701
12-22-2012, 21:13
Looks like he just paid $90 for a PMag......and got the free included rectum insertion of it.......

Shoulda sprung for the lube.

CitizenOfDreams
12-22-2012, 21:26
My favorite ship was Fer-de-Lance.

http://wiki.alioth.net/images/thumb/3/39/Elite-fdl.png/250px-Elite-fdl.png

RWBlue
12-22-2012, 21:37
When you are bringing friends.
http://furiousfanboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/falcon.jpg

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs48/f/2009/210/9/f/Millennium_Falcon_Side_View_by_RedSpider2008.jpg

When you are going it alone.
http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Movies/L/Last_Starfighter/movie_images/The%20Last%20Starfighter%20movie%20image%20%281%29.jpg

Glock20 10mm
12-22-2012, 21:37
Viper, hands down.

This is the correct answer.

Ruggles
12-22-2012, 21:41
Nerd porn:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lwb22c.png

RWBlue
12-22-2012, 21:48
When you want to bring a lot of friends.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-b-sheet-12.jpg

Ruggles
12-22-2012, 21:50
When you want to bring a lot of friends.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-b-sheet-12.jpg

Pretty cool :)

JJohnson
12-23-2012, 00:22
The X-wings have hyperspace capability. The vipers don't. The X-wing uses energy weapons and employs shields. The vipers use bullets and have armor.

X-wing all the way.

BEER
12-23-2012, 00:30
The X-wings have hyperspace capability. The vipers don't. The X-wing uses energy weapons and employs shields. The vipers use bullets and have armor.

X-wing all the way.

isn't their "jump" ability the same as hyperspace travel?

LL6
12-23-2012, 05:01
Lets not forget that the X-wings torpedoes can take down a death star with a single shot.

Have you ever seen a viper take out a Base Star with one shot?
Completely situational just like your X-Wing scenario. They did use a Raptor once to take out a Base Star in Season 4 or 4.5.


The X-wings have hyperspace capability. The vipers don't. The X-wing uses energy weapons and employs shields. The vipers use bullets and have armor.

X-wing all the way.

While X-wings can jump their ability to successfully engage and win in a furball is questionable due to the better maneuverability of the Viper. Case in point he Cylon Raiders have jump ability, but it doesn't help them dominate in a dogfight.

Maybe someone geekier than I can can answer if the shields from a X-wing would stop the Viper's kinetic rounds? As far as I've seen no one in the SW realm is using them. Would their shields even counter them?

isn't their "jump" ability the same as hyperspace travel?
No faster than light ability with the Viper.

RWBlue
12-23-2012, 19:06
http://www.motifake.com/prediction-weather-usairforce-demotivational-posters-135738.html

JDennis
12-23-2012, 19:10
Klingon bird of prey. Is there any other space craft? Lol

Tx-SIG229
12-23-2012, 19:13
im going with the Viper, too. that sucker can do a back flip and keep shooting

itisbruno
12-23-2012, 19:13
But that is only true if you use the force after flying down thru a totally spurious canyon on the death star with a straight shot at the reactor..

waves hand, "this is not the death star you are looking for"

:cool:

Get out of mom's basement much??


:whistling:

JoeInKS
12-23-2012, 19:36
Let me be the wild one..... A Cylon Raider:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=cylon+raider&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1182&bih=694&tbm=isch&tbnid=Wuh7hTBTuq-qkM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ioffer.com/147912033&docid=YtNnEVfq3YmOoM&imgurl=http://cdn103.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/147/912/033/revell-cylon-raider-battlestar-galactica-model-kit-85b4.jpg&w=350&h=210&ei=Lr_XUN7iAYqg2QW5yoH4Ag&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=398&sig=100531775721962089878&page=3&tbnh=134&tbnw=225&start=46&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:68,s:0,i:366&tx=74&ty=99

Has to be the worst spaceship EVER!! Not only can it not do warp or light speeds, it NEEDS 2 ROBOT PILOTS WITH A SUPERVISOR. Ummmmm, what am I missing? A race of robots that can't make a craft that can fly and think for itself??? Yeah, no wonder that they didn't have a chance against the Vipers.

LL6
12-23-2012, 19:46
Let me be the wild one..... A Cylon Raider:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=cylon+raider&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1182&bih=694&tbm=isch&tbnid=Wuh7hTBTuq-qkM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ioffer.com/147912033&docid=YtNnEVfq3YmOoM&imgurl=http://cdn103.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/147/912/033/revell-cylon-raider-battlestar-galactica-model-kit-85b4.jpg&w=350&h=210&ei=Lr_XUN7iAYqg2QW5yoH4Ag&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=398&sig=100531775721962089878&page=3&tbnh=134&tbnw=225&start=46&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:68,s:0,i:366&tx=74&ty=99

Has to be the worst spaceship EVER!! Not only can it not do warp or light speeds, it NEEDS 2 ROBOT PILOTS WITH A SUPERVISOR. Ummmmm, what am I missing? A race of robots that can't make a craft that can fly and think for itself??? Yeah, no wonder that they didn't have a chance against the Vipers.
Version 1.0

Reimagined (2.0?) Raider was much more effective. It was cybernetic and had FTL capability.

http://bsgonlinegame.com/game/raider.png

tsmo1066
12-23-2012, 20:34
Viper wins on "cool factor", but the X-Wing has shields. Vipers use kinetic, projectile guns that wouldn't have a chance of even damaging an X-Wing in a dogfight.

goldenlight
12-24-2012, 01:08
I love how the Vipers, space based short range fighters, have AIR INTAKES.:faint:

The X-wings would win hands down. They have FTL capability, plus they have shields, rendering them nearly immune to damage from the low powered armaments the Vipers carry.

DanaT
12-24-2012, 08:09
I love how the Vipers, space based short range fighters, have AIR INTAKES.:faint:


They fly in the atmosphere too...

Dennis in MA
12-24-2012, 08:47
vipers don't have to change configuration to go into attack mode, and the x-wings were never piloted by Kara thrace so i have no reason to sniff the seat in any x-wing.

Um. . . this thread went left fast. :rofl:


Have you ever seen a Base Star with a LOS track straight to the reactor?

I think the architect got the ol Vader death pinch after that one.

:rofl::rofl:

LOL I wouldn't mind, but they did hte same thing FOR THE REPLACEMENT DEATH STAR! Except instead of a small little exhaust port, they made a hole big enough for a Corellian Class Cargo Ship to fit into.

When you want to bring a lot of friends.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/uss-enterprise-ncc-1701-b-sheet-12.jpg

As long as you don't separate that freakin Battle Bridge on the D-class, we are good to go. Those were always the worst episodes.

knotquiteawake
12-24-2012, 08:55
The X-wings would win hands down. They have FTL capability, plus they have shields, rendering them nearly immune to damage from the low powered armaments the Vipers carry.

:agree:

This right here. QUAD laser cannons and Proton Torpedo launchers AND Shields AND Hyperdrive.
The Tie Fighters had superior maneuverability but no shields and X-Wings still chewed through them like nothing.
The only way the Vipers would be able to win would be with overwhelming odds, maybe 2:1. But if it were a 12 on 12 squadron fight the X-Wings would come out on top.

DanaT
12-24-2012, 09:06
I think the architect got the ol Vader death pinch after that one.

:rofl::rofl:

Actually, I doubt that. It is likely that Darth Vader didn't know who designed it. Count Dooku relieced them from the Geonosians at the beginning of the Clone War.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc/GWdisk4.jpg

DanaT
12-24-2012, 09:09
Completely situational just like your X-Wing scenario. They did use a Raptor once to take out a Base Star in Season 4 or 4.5.

It was a commando team that destroyed it. The Raptor simply carried the team into the base star and if I remember correctly, it only worked because Sharon was a Cylon who was able to get into the base star because she was a Cylon...

DanaT
12-24-2012, 09:12
ULOL I wouldn't mind, but they did hte same thing FOR THE REPLACEMENT DEATH STAR! Except instead of a small little exhaust port, they made a hole big enough for a Corellian Class Cargo Ship to fit into.

It was under construction. There wasnt a design for that, it was that the superstructure was still being finished. It was also protected by a shield that spacecraft couldnt fly through.

LL6
12-24-2012, 09:16
Viper wins on "cool factor", but the X-Wing has shields. Vipers use kinetic, projectile guns that wouldn't have a chance of even damaging an X-Wing in a dogfight.
Would they? I imagine in their military industrial complex if everyone is using energy-based weaponry would shields be 'tuned' to resist kinetic rounds?

Without going and re-watching SW for some clue I Googled the question.

Kinetic Weapons Are Just Better (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KineticWeaponsAreJustBetter).

Several instances where my idea is supported by their quasi-theory.

"The do give a hand wave of sorts for this, in that the shields are not really based on gravity so much as inertia. Anything with less inertia than the shield can generate is deflected away, including lasers, since they're effectively massless, while anything with more inertia, like bullets traveling at a significant fraction of c. plows right on through."

knotquiteawake
12-24-2012, 09:16
Actually, I doubt that. It is likely that Darth Vader didn't know who designed it. Count Dooku relieced them from the Geonosians at the beginning of the Clone War.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc/GWdisk4.jpg

Actually if you read the expanded Universe books you get to learn a lot, I consider the books greater cannon than the fodder that Lucas put into those crappy 3 movies he recently made.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bevel_Lemelisk

Bevel Lemelisk was an engineer and architect who designed, among other things, six superweapons with the power to destroy a planet: the Death Star prototype, the Death Star, the second Death Star, the Eclipse, the Tarkin, and the Darksaber. Starting his career by working for the Galactic Republic during the Clone Wars, Lemelisk studied under Nasdra Magrody, and worked alongside such illustrious designers as Doctor Walex Blissex. He aided Blissex in designing the Victory I-class Star Destroyer, which would remain a staple in military flotillas decades after its initial creation. When the Galactic Empire rose to power in 19 BBY, Lemelisk was tasked by Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin with the development of the Death Star battlestation, which would have the power to destroy entire worlds.
The Death Star's development and subsequent construction ensued for years, with Lemelisk working at the Maw Installation alongside designers including Frap Radicon and Umak Leth. When the station was finally completed, it was destroyed by the Alliance to Restore the Republic at the Battle of Yavin. Furious at the fact that the Alliance had been able to locate and exploit a fatal flaw in the design, Emperor Palpatine had Lemelisk executed, and subsequently resurrected in a clone body. Palpatine ordered Lemelisk to design a new Death Star, one that did not possess the same fatal flaw as the original. During development, the Emperor executed and resurrected Lemelisk a further six times.

Yeah, thats right, i just quoted the Wookiepedia. Nerd right here!

DanaT
12-24-2012, 09:21
Actually if you read the expanded Universe books you get to learn a lot, I consider the books greater cannon than the fodder that Lucas put into those crappy 3 movies he recently made.

Except that what happened in the movies was the TRUE story. All the books are not the actual story.

knotquiteawake
12-24-2012, 09:23
Except that what happened in the movies was the TRUE story. All the books are not the actual story.

Oh sure right... so I guess just because Lucas says it that makes it true? :tongueout: I bet you think Greedo shot first too! :supergrin:


Han. Shot. First. Period. Don't care what changes that madman Lucas makes.

Dennis in MA
12-24-2012, 09:24
It was under construction. There wasnt a design for that, it was that the superstructure was still being finished. It was also protected by a shield that spacecraft couldnt fly through.

That was effective. A shield defeated by a bunch of teddy bears.

LL6
12-24-2012, 09:28
It was a commando team that destroyed it. The Raptor simply carried the team into the base star and if I remember correctly, it only worked because Sharon was a Cylon who was able to get into the base star because she was a Cylon...
You're right, but it didn't require Sharon. They used a Cylon IFF to pretend they were a friendly. The Cylon spies (skin jobs) were spread throughout the Colonies so a Raptor with a Cylon IFF wasn't considered unusual. However having Sharon on board was a two-edged sword. On one hand her knowledge of the Basestar made it easier for them to just fly in when the nuke failed to launch, but it almost cost them the mission because she was discovered by the other Sharons when she disembarked to release the nuke.

Anywho the original point I was trying to make was destroying a Basestar was an unusual situational circumstance much like a lone X-wing being able to destroy a Death Star.

DanaT
12-24-2012, 09:29
That was effective. A shield defeated by a bunch of teddy bears.

Human eating teddy bears..

kirgi08
12-24-2012, 09:30
The X-wing,it has in flight repair included.'08. :whistling:

Dennis in MA
12-24-2012, 09:32
You're right, but it didn't require Sharon. They used a Cylon IFF to pretend they were a friendly. The Cylon spies (skin jobs) were spread throughout the Colonies so a Raptor with a Cylon IFF wasn't considered unusual. However having Sharon on board was a two-edged sword. On one hand her knowledge of the Basestar made it easier for them to just fly in when the nuke failed to launch, but it almost cost them the mission because she was discovered by the other Sharons when she disembarked to release the nuke.

Anywho the original point I was trying to make was destroying a Basestar was an unusual situational circumstance much like a lone X-wing being able to destroy a Death Star.


Shoulda brought this guy with them:

http://images.contactmusic.com/newsimages/ozzy_osbourne_1118050.jpg
SHARON!!!! SHARON!!!!!

ScumPunisher
12-24-2012, 09:55
As asteroids and debris are deflected by XWing shield it stands to reason that material rounds would have the same effectiveness.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

knotquiteawake
12-24-2012, 10:01
As asteroids and debris are deflected by XWing shield it stands to reason that material rounds would have the same effectiveness.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Yes and I believe the terminology they use sometimes for the "shields" is "Deflector Shields". This implies to me that energy and matter are both absorbed and deflected away.

In one of the Corellian Crises trilogy books I believe it is mentioned that all craft are required to at least have low powered navigational deflector shields to protect the craft from space debris. It would make sense that high powered military grade shields would be able to both absorb and deflect kinetic energy from the Viper guns.

Now, regarding the Vipers armament, do the bullets have any kind of explosive component to them? They could possibly overwhelm the X-Wing shields by exploding on impact with the deflector shield.

ScumPunisher
12-24-2012, 10:13
Yes and I believe the terminology they use sometimes for the "shields" is "Deflector Shields". This implies to me that energy and matter are both absorbed and deflected away.

In one of the Corellian Crises trilogy books I believe it is mentioned that all craft are required to at least have low powered navigational deflector shields to protect the craft from space debris. It would make sense that high powered military grade shields would be able to both absorb and deflect kinetic energy from the Viper guns.

Now, regarding the Vipers armament, do the bullets have any kind of explosive component to them? They could possibly overwhelm the X-Wing shields by exploding on impact with the deflector shield.

Exactly. And the question you pose is an interesting point, however I doubt the rounds from the viper are explosive, as concussive force in the vacuum of space is a moot point. With no air to carry a shockwave, the effects would be minimal at best and not worth the expense. A simple kinetic energy transfer from a ferrous slug fired through a rail-type gun would be more damaging and cost effective in space. Of course even this l, over the course of multiple, rapid hits on the xwing would deplete the shield's energy reserves to tje failure point. However it would require sustained on-target fire to damage the xwing, since those shields can recharge fairly fast in between bursts. The pilot can also divert energy from the thrusters or even immidiately dump laser energy into shields in a pinch.
One good hit from the xwing however would make quick work of the viper however, just as it does to standard unshielded TIE fighters.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

knotquiteawake
12-24-2012, 10:17
lol, this thread is awesome. I have not had a nerdy discussion like this in ages. The friends I have don't share my love of Science Fiction. If I'm going to be stuck working today I might as well be able to have a little bit of fun too.

DanaT
12-24-2012, 10:27
If maneuverability is key, why not use an A-wing? It still has shields.

Of course a Jedi Starfighter would take out any of them...

RWBlue
12-24-2012, 10:45
Klingon bird of prey. Is there any other space craft? Lol

I will give you a +1 on cloaking, but overall ...

They never win in a fight and they smell like Klingons.

knotquiteawake
12-24-2012, 10:54
I will give you a +1 on cloaking, but overall ...

They never win in a fight and they smell like Klingons.

In the Dominion war Martok in command of the IKS Rotarran (a bird of prey) was able to have several decisive victories against dominion battleships before he was elevated to supreme commander of the KDF.

Also the bird of prey in Star Trek VI that could fire torpedos while cloaked was amazing, only got destroyed because of their exhaust fumes.

edcrosbys
12-24-2012, 13:17
I know it's already been mentioned once, but it's worth it again...
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/EVENTS/imagine/gunstar.JPG

The Death Blossom would slaughter the squads of x-wings and vipers with some power to spare! :tongueout:

BEER
12-24-2012, 13:59
you know the more i think about it the more i realize how bad the empire is at design. there's the whole deathstar thing, then the imperial at-at design with the long gangly legs and their bipedal cousins seen on endor, then the tie fighters. the tie fighters and bombers are supposedly some of the most agile ships in the know galaxy but i guess they'd have to be with those giant easy to hit wings on their flanks.

the empire needs a whole new design and engineering department.