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EdTracker
12-23-2012, 08:11
Since the NRA offered a solution to the perceived Evil Black Rifles (AR-15 style) threat there have been discussions regarding who is going to pay for the NRA recommended increased security of schools. I figured a preemptive discussion might be worthwhile.

IFF (If and only if) there were no new bans or restrictions on EBR's what do you think of a 10% tax on all firearm sales that would go to pay a safety / education fund. This fund would pay for guards in schools and teach firearm safety?

There are currently taxes on many hunting implements (namely a tax on arrows) that are used to pay for wildlife management. (...IRC 4161 imposes an excise tax on the sale of sport fishing equipment, bows, archery equipment and arrow shafts...)

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Field-Directive-Federal-Excise-Tax-on-the-Importation-and-Manufacture-of-Fishing-and-Archery-Products

HerrGlock
12-23-2012, 08:17
No. The power to tax is the power to raise the tax to prohibitive levels.

You are agreeing that punishing all those who did not break the law is the correct way to go.

raven11
12-23-2012, 08:18
no, not a inch of ground given

don't punish lawful gun owners for the actions of the mentally insane , cook country, IL tried to get a tax on ammo passed to fund the gangbangers that get shot up and arrive at the hospital for free treatment and even they figured out it was stupid and dropped the idea

aircarver
12-23-2012, 08:20
No. The power to tax is the power to raise the tax to prohibitive levels.

You are agreeing that punishing all those who did not break the law is the correct way to go.

This ! ... :thumbsup:

.

Glockdude1
12-23-2012, 08:23
No. The power to tax is the power to raise the tax to prohibitive levels.

You are agreeing that punishing all those who did not break the law is the correct way to go.

:agree:

Ed, a 10% tax on firearms would make you the dog in your avatar......

Kingarthurhk
12-23-2012, 08:23
Have violent felons pay a "protection" fine as part of their sentencing and use those funds. After all, a violent felony created the problem, violent felons should be part of the solution.

PaulMason
12-23-2012, 08:25
Have you done the math - cost of security minus (total gun annual gun sales x 10%) = ?

Kingarthurhk
12-23-2012, 08:26
Have you done the math - cost of security minus (total gun annual gun sales x 10%) = ?

Given the ammount of violent felonies committed across the United States, if each one was fined 1k as part of their sentencing, that would shore up the funds nicely.

Cavalry Doc
12-23-2012, 08:27
Here in Texas, I've been against any new school bonds. Why? Have you seen some of the schools they are building? Some of them are like luxury castles. A few in the Dallas Area I have visited remind me of visiting some of opulent castles built by Ludwig II in Bavaria. They don't need to be dingy dungeons, but they are way more expensively built than they need to be.

That being said, I would vote for a bond for physical security at all schools in a heartbeat. My youngest graduates this year, and I'd still vote for it.

It doesn't have to be expensive. Fire a vice principle, and you could easily hire one or two armed guards with what they make. Hinged steel door bars on the inside of the classroom. A simple heavy gauge bar with brackets would be a bullet resistant barrier device.

There are plenty of cheap ways to secure schools.

NDCent
12-23-2012, 08:30
We pay enough taxes.

aircarver
12-23-2012, 08:31
Here in Texas, I've been against any new school bonds. Why? Have you seen some of the schools they are building? Some of them are like luxury castles. A few in the Dallas Area I have visited remind me of visiting some of opulent castles built by Ludwig II in Bavaria. They don't need to be dingy dungeons, but they are way more expensively built than they need to be.


Boy Howdy !

The "I want it all .... & I want it NOW !!" generation ... :upeyes:

.

Kingarthurhk
12-23-2012, 08:35
Here in Texas, I've been against any new school bonds. Why? Have you seen some of the schools they are building? Some of them are like luxury castles. A few in the Dallas Area I have visited remind me of visiting some of opulent castles built by Ludwig II in Bavaria. They don't need to be dingy dungeons, but they are way more expensively built than they need to be.

That being said, I would vote for a bond for physical security at all schools in a heartbeat. My youngest graduates this year, and I'd still vote for it.

It doesn't have to be expensive. Fire a vice principle, and you could easily hire one or two armed guards with what they make. Hinged steel door bars on the inside of the classroom. A simple heavy gauge bar with brackets would be a bullet resistant barrier device.

There are plenty of cheap ways to secure schools.

They do that because of "Bubba Deals". So and so is on the city board of commisioners and a relative contractor of his would like to strike it rich, then you foot the property tax bill to fund his life of luxury and security.

Now, back to my point, fine the violent felons as part of sentencing and use those funds. Problem solved.

FullClip
12-23-2012, 08:43
Even if a 10% tax on firearms was passed, that money would most likely just end up going into the general slush fund to buy more "Bama-Fones" and pay the rent, utility and cable bills for the Section-8 Queens.:upeyes:

Therefore....no way will I support a tax, user fee, registration fee or whatever name they try to use.

K.Kiser
12-23-2012, 08:47
I do applaude your willingness to pay for an improvement to this problem, I think that's honorable... I also agree it would show we are willing to give toward something of which we are not the problem, and further making us the scapegoat and the whip-beating provider which is what the gun control advocates want...

What we have to remember is that once the gov't is allowed to have the slightest small part of their toe in the door they NEVER STOP THERE, EVER... They are like the drug headed friend or family member that you loan $5 bucks too, it turns us into the enabler... It never stops there until a line is drawn in the sand, which should happen from the get-go..

The very fabric of a politician and his orgination is a creature that want's it all, and they expect it for nothing... Shut the door in there face and let them hear the loud sounds of multiple locks and turn lugs cranking into place...

I'm not against paying something toward what you've proposed, but I'd rather do it on a private and local scale instead of letting a gov't official touch a single cent... I dont have the details of the logistics that it would take, but I'd be willing to talk about privately owned and locally funded security teams that could specialize in such tasks...

I'd be willing to complete whatever necessary training would be needed to take part in it, but I'd also like it to be very non-mall cop type stuff or we'd see a media backplash... At this point in my life (36 years old yesterday) I would jump at the opportunity to make a real difference, and I can certainly say I feel very strongly toward this cause...

VC-Racing
12-23-2012, 08:50
The only way i would support a tax, the Only way ......... it would have to be specific about the use. No variance. Specific use only. However the government won't do that, because the surplus it would create for that specific use would be tempting to quietly move to some form if pork..... so it would never happen ....

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

waawaaweenie
12-23-2012, 08:51
here in Kalifornia, the schools already cost more to build, per square foot than the lavish hotels and casinos in Vegas.

the stupid citizens here voted for a proposition about 10 years ago that required 51% of the state budget to go to the schools and all the school people still whine that they do not get enough money

like was posted above, they could trim back on the upper management of the schools and have way more money than needed for great armed security and reinforcing the classrooms.

Kingarthurhk
12-23-2012, 08:58
I do applaude your willingness to pay for an improvement to this problem, I think that's honorable... I also agree it would show we are willing to give toward something of which we are not the problem, and further making us the scapegoat and the whip-beating provider which is what the gun control advocates want...

What we have to remember is that once the gov't is allowed to have the slightest small part of their toe in the door they NEVER STOP THERE, EVER... They are like the drug headed friend or family member that you loan $5 bucks too, it turns us into the enabler... It never stops there until a line is drawn in the sand, which should happen from the get-go..

The very fabric of a politician and his orgination is a creature that want's it all, and they expect it for nothing... Shut the door in there face and let them hear the loud sounds of multiple locks and turn lugs cranking into place...

I'm not against paying something toward what you've proposed, but I'd rather do it on a private and local scale instead of letting a gov't official touch a single cent... I dont have the details of the logistics that it would take, but I'd be willing to talk about privately owned and locally funded security teams that could specialize in such tasks...

I'd be willing to complete whatever necessary training would be needed to take part in it, but I'd also like it to be very non-mall cop type stuff or we'd see a media backplash... At this point in my life (36 years old yesterday) I would jump at the opportunity to make a real difference, and I can certainly say I feel very strongly toward this cause...

Whether it is Federal, State, or local, a govenment official would be touching all the cents.

As to mall cops, look at what TSA was before they were TSA. They were the airport equivalent.

Anywho, why are we taxing the good people and not fining the bad people to solve this problem.

My social math is simple. Good people didn't cause the problem. A violent bad person did.

Therefore take the funds from the violent bad people.

I can't make it more simple than that.

stillbill
12-23-2012, 09:02
Why now add a new tax on children.

The parents already get tax breaks for having children.

Everyone pays to provide education, even if you do not have children.

Why not have the parents pay to protect their children.

Z71bill
12-23-2012, 09:14
Taxes & firearms. :whistling:

Make guns, magazine & ammo purchases tax deductible.

ARs, AKs and any gun/mag that holds more than 10 rounds also gets a refundable tax credit = to 25% of the cost.

:cool:

ERASER
12-23-2012, 09:30
Funny you should mention that. Here's a PA state representative with the same idea:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/video/#!/news/local/Pa--Rep--Wants-Gun-Buyers-to-Pay-for-School-Security/184493161

Glockdude1
12-23-2012, 09:33
We pay enough taxes.

:agree:

We pay enough taxes to GIVE AWAY BILLIONS to countries that hate us........

:faint:

JFrame
12-23-2012, 09:34
I know this doesn't address the issue of a new tax in this country -- but I would rather see us divert some of the Federal largesse that goes to other countries to get them to "love" us (a few Islamic countries come to mind right off the bat).

As Wayne LaPierre said, how can we ship billions overseas to help other people, and not use those billions to protect the kids in our own country?


.

JFrame
12-23-2012, 09:35
:agree:

We pay enough taxes to GIVE AWAY BILLIONS to countries that hate us........

:faint:


Glockdude1 -- ya beat me by one post... :supergrin:


.

Glockdude1
12-23-2012, 09:50
Glockdude1 -- ya beat me by one post... :supergrin:


.

Got my track shoes on!!

:tongueout:

OhioGlock90
12-23-2012, 09:53
I say no! Why do law abiding citizens have to make sacrifices every time a criminal uses a gun? When someone drives drunk and kills someone do car collectors have to pay a new tax to prevent drunk driving?

muscogee
12-23-2012, 09:56
Another sin tax?

ICARRY2
12-23-2012, 10:07
The school district I live in has a $260 million+/- annual budget with 33 elementary and 7 high schools with 40,000+/- students.

Adding one leo to every school and 6-7 Sgt's, Lt's, Chief. should only increase the budget by roughly 1-1.5%.

That is a bond I would vote for in a heartbeat.

The way I see it we have a choice, either pony up for armed police at every school or pony up to the gun right organizations every time there is a school massacre and fight like hell to keep the 2A alive.

If we don't put leos at schools, we will eventually lose our guns and ccws due to a massive and a majority of people (sheeple) in this country calling for major restrictions on the 2A.

One GT member is a fully sworn and trained leo for a Texas school district. If each school district could have their own police force, it would keep the power at the local level (aka. school board) and away from the feds.

Schools are going to continue to be magnets for crazy people. I will guarantee you one thing, the next school shooting will be worse than anything any of us can imagine.

Hopefully, we can repell any efforts this time, but the next time will be the death of the 2A.

Too many people in this country who will gladly and foolishly trade liberty for security.

K.Kiser
12-23-2012, 10:16
Whether it is Federal, State, or local, a govenment official would be touching all the cents.

As to mall cops, look at what TSA was before they were TSA. They were the airport equivalent.

Anywho, why are we taxing the good people and not fining the bad people to solve this problem.

My social math is simple. Good people didn't cause the problem. A violent bad person did.

Therefore take the funds from the violent bad people.

I can't make it more simple than that.

As said, I think there is an answer to a security system that I don't have the details for... There's gonna be a tall hill to climb trying to add armed security in schools while the existing money comes from a gov't that already want's us drawn and quartered..

I'd love for the bad people to pay for a solution, but unless these offenders come from wealth I don't see the possibility unless they can create revenue as an inmate but that's not gonna be near enough... I'd like to see the leniant judges get fines, but that's not gonna happen...

If we as citizens agree there should be armed sceurity, we have to come up with something that will bring the $$... It ain't gonna be free, and I highly doubt it will come from taxes currently going to other things..

arnold ziffle
12-23-2012, 10:36
a 10% tax hmmm. that would be 1% less than we are paying now.

Angry Fist
12-23-2012, 10:40
Quick execution of violent criminals would be a better option.

Kingarthurhk
12-23-2012, 10:44
As said, I think there is an answer to a security system that I don't have the details for... There's gonna be a tall hill to climb trying to add armed security in schools while the existing money comes from a gov't that already want's us drawn and quartered..

I'd love for the bad people to pay for a solution, but unless these offenders come from wealth I don't see the possibility unless they can create revenue as an inmate but that's not gonna be near enough... I'd like to see the leniant judges get fines, but that's not gonna happen...

If we as citizens agree there should be armed sceurity, we have to come up with something that will bring the $$... It ain't gonna be free, and I highly doubt it will come from taxes currently going to other things..

Most states already have a fine for the Victim's Advocacy fund. This would be no different.

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 11:00
Making it a part of the public education system is a guarantee of failure.

Break down the cost to put an officer at every school, every day, and come up with a number. Then you can look at a law enforcement based solution. The NRA can donate as much of my membership dollars as it wants, and it can even try to solicit more money from me. Maybe they can hit up some other big industries for donations...maybe they can change the wording on my tax form to allow me to donate $3 for school officers rather than the presidential election... Maybe every firearms maker will offer a $xx donation to that fund for every one of their firearms purchased...We don't need to levy a tax or even have that discussion if that money can be raised through donations. I would be more than happy to send some of the money I donate to the charities I believe in to this private fund, and I don't think I'm alone. So much that is taken from me is wasted on programs I don't support and divided among people I wish it were not...at least with charity I feel like I have some control.

Whatever... Just propose a solution and push the issue. Make some rabid ultra left progressive "news" spewer explain why it can't work because it's too expensive...that is an easy arguement to win.

Z71bill
12-23-2012, 11:02
Economics is straight forward in this case.

You want to reduce something you tax it

You want to encourage something you subsidize it

Z71bill
12-23-2012, 11:08
You could force people that have been on unemployment & welfare for more than 26 weeks to get up every day and stand guard at the schools as a condition of getting a check.

No need to arm them - just have them be "look outs".

The money you save on unemployment & welfare would more than pay for the cost to provide qualified security at the school.

When people are forced to do more than sit on their fat ass to keep getting a check some of them will give up the check.

Glockgeezer
12-23-2012, 11:09
Owning a gun is not a sin and we should not feel guilty for it. Schools, like governments are top-heavy and could easily trim some of the fat. I was a teacher for 35 yrs. so I know a little something about waste. They can start with guidance councilors and work their way up.

ERASER
12-23-2012, 11:17
You could force people that have been on unemployment & welfare for more than 26 weeks to get up every day and stand guard at the schools as a condition of getting a check.

No need to arm them - just have them be "look outs".

The money you save on unemployment & welfare would more than pay for the cost to provide qualified security at the school.

When people are forced to do more than sit on their fat ass to keep getting a check some of them will give up the check.

They already have Obamaphones to call 911.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 11:18
No. The power to tax is the power to raise the tax to prohibitive levels.

You are agreeing that punishing all those who did not break the law is the correct way to go.


HerrGlock said all that needs to be said.

gommer
12-23-2012, 20:46
There is already an excise tax on every firearm, no?

I would imagine they would just increase the existing taxes.

I don't expect that to happen, though. For anything to happen, it'll probably have to be Obama testing his executive powers. I'd wager he might be able to push to change a large number of firearms into Class III. But that's just speculation.

I sincerely don't believe the House and Senate can both pass something - not even an AWB, let alone a tax to go with it.

hpracing007
12-23-2012, 20:49
Taxes & firearms. :whistling:

Make guns, magazine & ammo purchases tax deductible.

ARs, AKs and any gun/mag that holds more than 10 rounds also gets a refundable tax credit = to 25% of the cost.

:cool:

That is actually a really good idea. People who go to work and pay taxes are usually good people. This idea would put more guns in the hands of contributing members of society.

The criminal and gangbangers are going to have their guns no matter what, this would even the odds.

NEOH212
12-23-2012, 20:50
No. The power to tax is the power to raise the tax to prohibitive levels.

You are agreeing that punishing all those who did not break the law is the correct way to go.

This!

My thoughts exactly!

(Besides, we pay enough damn taxes the way it is!):steamed:

NEOH212
12-23-2012, 20:51
It's just pure evil to think we should have to be taxed in order to exercise one of our Constitutional Rights..

:faint:

Atlas
12-23-2012, 20:52
It's just pure evil to think we should have to be taxed in order to exercise one of our Constitutional Rights..

:faint:

If it's taxed then it's no longer a right.
To submit to a tax would be tacit legal agreement that owning a firearm is now a privilege.

NEOH212
12-23-2012, 21:02
If it's taxed then it's no longer a right.
To submit to a tax would be tacit legal agreement that owning a firearm is now a privilege.

Damn straight!


That's why we can't roll over and let it happen!

:wavey:

G29Reload
12-23-2012, 21:18
Since the NRA offered a solution to the perceived Evil Black Rifles (AR-15 style) threat there have been discussions regarding who is going to pay for the NRA recommended increased security of schools. I figured a preemptive discussion might be worthwhile.

IFF (If and only if) there were no new bans or restrictions on EBR's what do you think of a 10% tax on all firearm sales that would go to pay a safety / education fund. This fund would pay for guards in schools and teach firearm safety?



Id say you were a submissive surrender monkey. We havent done anything wrong and dont owe anyone anything. I refuse to offer pre emptive ransom to exercise a God-given right.

NEOH212
12-23-2012, 21:27
Id say you were a submissive surrender monkey. We haven't done anything wrong and don't owe anyone anything. I refuse to offer preemptive ransom to exercise a God-given right.

Amen to that!

:thumbsup:

spork
12-23-2012, 21:28
I say no to any tax that is specifically designed to target a constitutional right.

Mushinto
12-23-2012, 23:11
a 10% tax hmmm. that would be 1% less than we are paying now.

Since no one else caught it, so I will spell it out.

There is already an 11% federal excise tax on firearms.

NecoDude
12-23-2012, 23:33
Not only no but HE double hockey sticks NO... Taxation without representation comes to mind and since Obama came along my taxes have risen too much and I'm no where in the top brackets. The 2nd Amendment states "shall not be infringed"

(Verb
Actively break the terms of (a law, agreement, etc.)
Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach )

Now I'm no scholar but I'm Pretty sure that includes taxes.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 23:35
.....

DWARREN123
12-24-2012, 00:35
No! I did nothing wrong so why should I pay more as a punishment. :steamed:

dwhite53
12-24-2012, 16:23
Yep. And they'll put that money right into a locked box
to be absolutely sure it goes.........................







right into the general fund. :wavey:










Just like you're social security. :rofl:







Then they won't have enough money.



All the Best,
D. White

G29Reload
12-25-2012, 03:09
Since no one else caught it, so I will spell it out.

There is already an 11% federal excise tax on firearms.

I believe that's Pittman-robertson funds that are shunted to maintaining wildlife habitat re: hunters.

beforeobamabans
12-25-2012, 03:21
No. I liked Wayne's idea of using some of the money we currently spend on foreign aid. I'd suggest we start with the $2billion per year we give to Egypt.

Lior
12-25-2012, 03:41
What about taxing "gun free zone" signs?
Other things that should be taxed: criminal convictions, failed legislation, prison time.

Patchman
12-25-2012, 06:09
When the NRA came out and said the solution was to employ more armed security, the first thought was, "OK, financing for the idea will be referred to as the NRA Tax."

But a tax like that just doesn't make sense.

Bren
12-25-2012, 07:56
Part of what you pay for a gun is already taxes designed to keep guns out of the hands of the poor (and to finance the ATF). How about we just redirect that tax to whatever purpose we need?

On the other hand, we already have plenty of safety education available from the NRA. Liberals are as opposed to gun safety education as they are to guns.

Mushinto
12-25-2012, 10:23
I believe that's Pittman-robertson funds that are shunted to maintaining wildlife habitat re: hunters.

Ed Zachery.

G17Jake
12-25-2012, 10:24
no. The power to tax is the power to raise the tax to prohibitive levels.

You are agreeing that punishing all those who did not break the law is the correct way to go.

amen!

Comrade Bork
12-25-2012, 10:37
The only viable, long term solution is to simply allow educational staffers to arm themselves.

Teachers, Principals, assistant principals, assistants to assistant principals, otherwise useless Federally-mandated administrators, janitors, and all.

Notice I did NOT say "Arm them"

I said "Let them arm themselves". Those REQUIRED to be armed are mediocre gun fighters at best.

Or NOT arm themselves, if THAT is their choice.

Long term, what is needed is multiple armed staffers running to the sounds of a bad guy's gun to defend their young charges.

Like white corpuscles swarming to destroy a bacterial invader.

:dunno:

RMTactical
12-25-2012, 11:48
Any additional taxes or infringement will piss me off.

Patchman
12-25-2012, 12:32
The only viable, long term solution is to simply allow educational staffers to arm themselves.

Long term, what is needed is multiple armed staffers running to the sounds of a bad guy's gun to defend their young charges.



And let's also get parents (even grandparents) involved. Parents have a vested interest in the own child(ren)'s safety. Volunteer at school to be safety officers. 2, 3 or 4 hours one day a week, or if enough parents volunteer, maybe even once every 2 weeks or once a month.

shotgunred
12-25-2012, 12:42
1/10 of one percent sales tax would pay for it and keep it local. Everyone would be funding their own community's and the money would stay local, Without the need of big government interference and bureaucracy.

10rounds
12-25-2012, 12:48
I can see many of the financially strapped states using any kind of excuses to raise new taxes because they will not stop their out of controlled spending. By blaming guns, they have an excuse to raise new taxes!