WTF NRA?? Keep LaPierre away from the media [Archive] - Glock Talk

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brausso
12-23-2012, 09:10
This guy is an idiot. I've heard him speak a few times now and I can't believe this is the guy the NRA chooses to go in front of a camera. He's slow and doesn't have an ounce of wit. Spewing the same crap about violent video games for the last two decades ain't going to cut it.

If he's the guy that's supposed to help ease the mindset of people, then forget it. It's over before it even started.

Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 09:13
I agree they need a more qualified PR person for public appearances.

And when LaPierre does appear before the press they need to get for him a suit that fits.
In fact, the NRA should hire a wardrobe consultant.

This stuff matters.

Fear Night
12-23-2012, 09:17
The NRA needs a much more personable man as the public face of their organization. LaPierre didn't smile one time during the interview on MTP. He just doesn't seem like a likable guy to me.

I have seen him interviewed at different pro-gun events/expos and his demeanor is completely different. I think it's the pressure of these interviews and speeches, where he knows he will be up against anti-gun opposition, that makes him put up a wall and offer no glimpse of a personality.

Diesel McBadass
12-23-2012, 09:20
And he defends one thing i love by attacking another thing i love. And sends tons of junk mail. what a tool.

Bruce M
12-23-2012, 09:21
I met him once perhaps a decade ago and he seemed very friendly and personable; different than he appears on television.

4949shooter
12-23-2012, 09:21
The video game item on the agenda was mentioned for deflection purposes, I think. He was trying to deflect the issue away from guns onto video games. So what's the answer, outlaw video games?

It doesn't make sense.

13 ROMEO
12-23-2012, 09:27
He is too passive imho. He closes his eyes for way too long when he speaks,like he is trying to show compassion and reverance in everything he says. I need someone a little more upright and forceful,and yes he needs a suit that fits!

Gallium
12-23-2012, 09:33
The video game item on the agenda was mentioned for deflection purposes, I think. He was trying to deflect the issue away from guns onto video games. So what's the answer, outlaw video games?

It doesn't make sense.

As a society - and we are different from Japan or France, or Sweden, or Israel or South Africa, Britian, etc etc...

IN ADDITION to looking at means and ways in which we can possibly diminish the ability of the mentally unstable from acquiring guns we also...


As a society we need to invest some pragmatic, scientific study in how violent video games affect our developing minds.



We need to investigate how these games affect those who are already on, or may be on the cusp of mental instability



We need to take that same detached analytical look at how saturating the media with the acts of these deranged or evil killers might spur other mentally deficient (or otherwise warped) to commit similar crimes.

So yes, I think it MUST distill down to a serious 1st Amendment and 2nd Amendment issue.


What do you think the reaction from game makers, Hollywood, the 4th estate and other luminaries of the 1st amendment would be if scientific study does point to some restraint on some of the things I have articulated above?



What if we find that the mere act of reporting these crimes ad naseum does have a measurable, tangible affect on that person going over the edge. In your opinion, would the "media" accept legislation to help the "greater good" of the nation?




How you doing in this season sir? :)

4949shooter
12-23-2012, 09:37
As a society - and we are different from Japan or France, or Sweden, or Israel or South Africa, Britian, etc etc...

IN ADDITION to looking at means and ways in which we can possibly diminish the ability of the mentally unstable from acquiring guns we also...


As a society we need to invest some pragmatic, scientific study in how violent video games affect our developing minds.



We need to investigate how these games affect those who are already on, or may be on the cusp of mental instability



We need to take that same detached analytical look at how saturating the media with the acts of these deranged or evil killers might spur other mentally deficient (or otherwise warped) to commit similar crimes.

So yes, I think it MUST distill down to a serious 1st Amendment and 2nd Amendment issue.


What do you think the reaction from game makers, Hollywood, the 4th estate and other luminaries of the 1st amendment would be if scientific study does point to some restraint on some of the things I have articulated above?



What if we find that the mere act of reporting these crimes ad naseum does have a measurable, tangible affect on that person going over the edge. In your opinion, would the "media" accept legislation to help the "greater good" of the nation?




How you doing in this season sir? :)

I know your questions are rhetorical, my friend. And they make valid points!

I have some herniated discs in my neck as of late. I'm not a happy camper.

Rooster45ACP
12-23-2012, 09:40
You people are ridiculous. Please, after the recent events, what would you say up on that podium knowing you have to be sympathetic and protect our 2nd Amendment at the same time? I'm sure we would all love to see a stronger voice right now, but how can you without seeming insensitive to the matter? Then **** would really hit the fan for us! The voice will get stronger, and you need to give it a bit of time. Things don't just happen over night, it will take some time for anything to happen.. If anything did become of this ( Like a ban ) it has to go through a COURT SYSTEM, I don't care what Feinstein is putting on the table. More than half the **** won't even make it through the court system.. And as far as Obama's "executive order" still has to be voted upon.. So calm down folks, keep supporting our rights, and our 2nd Amendment!!!! It will get better!!!!

paynter2
12-23-2012, 09:42
There's no reason for anyone of a conservative bent to appear on any MSM outlet - except maybe FOX. They simply become targets of opportunity.

If the MSM had to rely on people like me for their profits, they'd all go broke. I might watch a football game of CBS or NBC. But that's the only time any MSM network (sans Fox) is on in my house.

I do agree that the NRA should be able to find a better front man.

Tango 1Zero
12-23-2012, 09:43
It is obvious the NRA should ellect a PR person for this job.

4949shooter
12-23-2012, 09:46
You people are ridiculous. Please, after the recent events, what would you say up on that podium knowing you have to be sympathetic and protect our 2nd Amendment at the same time? I'm sure we would all love to see a stronger voice right now, but how can you without seeming insensitive to the matter? Then **** would really hit the fan for us! The voice will get stronger, and you need to give it a bit of time. Things don't just happen over night, it will take some time for anything to happen.. If anything did become of this ( Like a ban ) it has to go through a COURT SYSTEM, I don't care what Feinstein is putting on the table. More than half the **** won't even make it through the court system.. And as far as Obama's "executive order" still has to be voted upon.. So calm down folks, keep supporting our rights, and our 2nd Amendment!!!! It will get better!!!!

I agree him being sympathetic was a good thing. This is what we need right now.

I don't agree with him deflecting the gun issue onto video games though, and I am not a gamer (but my kids are).

JBnTX
12-23-2012, 10:18
It is obvious the NRA should ellect a PR person for this job.

The NRA just needs another Charlton Heston.
Heston believed in the product he was trying to sell.

To Wayne LaPierre it's just a job, and right now he's probably wishing the whole thing would just go away.

..

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 10:23
I also wish he were more well spoken...not fiery, not defensive, not stronger...just a better speaker with a more cohesive message.

He is quirky under fire and in pressure situations, and he seems to rely on the redirect hoping the attention will shift from gun violence (something the NRA is certainly not in favor of) to video games (another non interest of the NRA). It's a foolish and ineffective point to try and make.

Wayne needs to stick with the facts...the second amendment is still part of the constitution, there are millions of guns already out there so banning some configuration of what is already readily available is foolish and a waste of energy, and NO LAW being proposed would stop another shooting like the one that just happened in Newtown...the only practical course of action that would have a chance of saving lives would be to protect our schools like we protect our banks...with armed guards.

He knows that the first argument to "put a cop in every school" is money...so why doesn't he push that issue and offer some practical solutions to that obstacle. As a gun owner and NRA member I would be open to paying an extra $5 for my hunting/fishing license, or a $.05 per round I buy, I would even donate to the NRA if they created a fund where all the money went to pay for cops in schools. Offer some solutions Wayne, make them tell you why it won't work and then offer solutions to that.

He had a good, practical, actionable solution to elevate safety in schools and has abandoned it in favor of video games. Get with the program Wayne and get the best idea out there back up front. The only arguement they have with it is money...nobody argues that having a cop at every school makes it safer...and the money problem is not a huge issue when you represent a giant powerful organization like the NRA. Be a leader Wayne, solve the problem they are too closed minded to.

Gallium
12-23-2012, 10:24
You people are ridiculous. ...

....I don't care what Feinstein is putting on the table. More than half the **** won't even make it through the court system.. And as far as Obama's "executive order" still has to be voted upon.. So calm down folks...


Yes. This is a great way to engage in meaningful dialogue. Insult the people you want talking to you.

The problem with your view is, there always a danger to our gun rights in attempts at legislation further restricting those rights.



What happens in DC often sets the tone for what happens at the state and local level.
People all over buy into the crap that politicians are shoveling.

It is incumbent on us to always, enthusiastically refute false claims, no matter who make them - for or against us.


Only a foolish person would stand by and watch someone who they say is their advocate speak on their behalf, promulgating BS and do nothing of it.




Respectfully,


The Watcher.

cowboywannabe
12-23-2012, 10:34
his mention of video games glorifiying the killing of children was to point out the hypocracy of the media and its apparent pass they give to tasteless games marketed to our youth.

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 10:35
To push the funding of cops in school further...

How about changing my tax form...instead of donating to a campaign for president why not asking the public to donate to keeping kids safe by having cops in schools? Does anyone actually check that box?

I bet they would if the money went to something that made sense.

ysr_racer
12-23-2012, 10:38
I missed it. Is it online anywhere?

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 10:43
his mention of video games glorifiying the killing of children was to point out the hypocracy of the media and its apparent pass they give to tasteless games marketed to our youth.

Too subtle...I honestly don't think that side of the issue understood what he was going for. He was laying out a thinking man's arguement to a group of rabid dogs.

If he wanted to tie violent video games and their marketing to anything..He should try to tie them to the solution by challenging the makers of those games to help fund his solution.

The left hates private charity, and they hate guns, and they aren't crazy about video games... If the gun crowd and the video game crowd raised they money needed to fund a practical idea put forth by the NRA I think their heads would explode.

How can it be possible that a good idea can be born and implemented without .gov? In the left America it simply can't be done...but i believe it can (and should) happen today.

Glockgeezer
12-23-2012, 10:45
IMHO Wayne was spot-on with violent video games and Hollywood movies. Not everyone knows the difference between the video world and reality these days. If nothing else, it desensitizes impressionable people to the consequences of violent behavior. How else can you explain mass shootings? Mental health is a catchall term for Sociopathic behavior.

G36's Rule
12-23-2012, 10:49
This guy is an idiot. I've heard him speak a few times now and I can't believe this is the guy the NRA chooses to go in front of a camera. He's slow and doesn't have an ounce of wit. Spewing the same crap about violent video games for the last two decades ain't going to cut it.

If he's the guy that's supposed to help ease the mindset of people, then forget it. It's over before it even started.

Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.

You should probably just give up everything now. It is obvious you haven't the stomach to really step up or back those that do.

Detectorist
12-23-2012, 10:56
In this age, it's all about perception. The nicer guy wins the hearts of folks. That's how Obama won.

We need a better spokesperson for the NRA. Maybe one of the Fox news hot chicks.

brausso
12-23-2012, 11:04
You should probably just give up everything now. It is obvious you haven't the stomach to really step up or back those that do.

Really? You know what you're talking about since I joined as a lifetime member two days ago. Tell me about all the backing you do please

FCastle88
12-23-2012, 11:04
IMHO Wayne was spot-on with violent video games and Hollywood movies. Not everyone knows the difference between the video world and reality these days. If nothing else, it desensitizes impressionable people to the consequences of violent behavior. How else can you explain mass shootings? Mental health is a catchall term for Sociopathic behavior.
Because mass killings NEVER happened before movies and videos games existed:upeyes:

Kingarthurhk
12-23-2012, 11:10
He essentially said, "Oh, you want to play the blame game, eh? Lemme show you how its done, boys."

cowboywannabe
12-23-2012, 11:10
In this age, it's all about perception. The nicer guy wins the hearts of folks. That's how Obama won.

We need a better spokesperson for the NRA. Maybe one of the Fox news hot chicks.

they do have the corner on hot chicks.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 11:15
I agree they need a more qualified PR person for public appearances.

And when LaPierre does appear before the press they need to get for him a suit that fits.
In fact, the NRA should hire a wardrobe consultant.

This stuff matters.

And teleprompters.

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 11:16
IMHO Wayne was spot-on with violent video games and Hollywood movies. Not everyone knows the difference between the video world and reality these days. If nothing else, it desensitizes impressionable people to the consequences of violent behavior. How else can you explain mass shootings? Mental health is a catchall term for Sociopathic behavior.

The mental health system (whats left of it) is broken in America. As is the case with most .gov funded and regulated industries, it is not in the position to do anything.

I do not believe violent movies and video games cause more violent attacks by mentally unstable people. I believe that mentally unstable people who do not receive proper mental health care are more likely to have a violent outburst...and there is a movie or video game that will bear a resemblance to their action because movies and video games are reflective of our society.

Even a mentally unstable person on a rampage has a survival instinct, and they tend to gravitate to places where they have the opportunity to inflict the harm they wish to inflict and not be stopped or challenged. Malls, schools, movie theaters, hospitals, etc. You don't see many attacks on police stations or gun stores or pawn shops...because even they understand that it would not turn out they way they want. Violent attacks by mentally unstable people happened before video games and movies.

I don't believe for a second that video games and movies desensitize people that are mentally stable. Rational, sane people (children included) know and understand the difference between real life and the screen. And regulating industries because of the possibility of it's affect of the mentally unstable is not practical...it would be tough to buy a beer or a car if it were as those objects lead to more deaths than guns ever will.

G29Reload
12-23-2012, 11:20
LaPierre is fine on paper, but he always struck me as looking like a nervous ferret. A little too Snidely Whiplash, beady eyes, chopped delivery. Its about PR and unfortunately a little more than half the country is not the sharpest knife in drawer and will need to either see him place on American Idol or something of a better public performance and delivery before they'll cotton to him.

It doesn't matter that he's right.

It doesn't matter that the idiot President and the Fourth Estate want non-sequitors that have nothing to do with what actually happened. The low information voters, the knee-jerk reaction crowd expect thinking to be done for them and fashion + delivery outweighs logic here. Sad but it is what it is.

collim1
12-23-2012, 11:29
Personally I thought he did pretty good.

Kind of a no win when

Rooster Rugburn
12-23-2012, 11:29
I've always said the NRA needs an articulate and professional spokesperson, who is up on all the facts and can go toe to toe with the likes of Chuck Schumer. Any time LaPierre would go up against Schumer on a debate show, he would let Schumer interrupt, dominate, and keep him off balance. LaPierre often looked like a deer in the headlights, and could only repeat prepared one liners..

But LaPierre seems to enjoy being the face of the NRA, so I don't expect them to get anyone else.

I'm glad others are finally starting to come around to my way of thinking on this.

ateamer
12-23-2012, 11:31
Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.
It's the truth, and he said it straightforward without sugarcoating or usng euphemisms. What more do you want? The American people need a big dose of reality and he gave it to them. If someone is too much of a candyass to handle that news, screw him.

Fredder
12-23-2012, 11:37
The NRA just needs another Charlton Heston.
Heston believed in the product he was trying to sell...
:wow:

AK-47's are inappropriate for private ownership, of course.
:rofl:

Harper
12-23-2012, 11:42
Wayne needs to stick with the facts...the second amendment is still part of the constitution, there are millions of guns already out there so banning some configuration of what is already readily available is foolish and a waste of energy, and NO LAW being proposed would stop another shooting like the one that just happened in Newtown...the only practical course of action that would have a chance of saving lives would be to protect our schools like we protect our banks...with armed guards.


I agree, there are so many facts, reports and general gun knowledge out there that supports our side. We constantly talk about how ignorant the anti's are. The majority of the public does not understand the difference between selective fire assault rifles, guns targeted under the AWB and plain hunting rifles. They think there is a real functional difference between "assault weapons" and other guns. Heck, I saw a video yesterday of Bloomberg telling a reporter with an assault weapon you just hold down the trigger and it fires multiple rounds. The general public knows almost nothing about this subject... but what if they did?
It doesn't have to be a long drawn out explanation. Just briefly cover:
1) The AWB does not target guns that function differently and explain why.
2) We tried an AWB and there is little supporting evidence of its effectiveness and cite sources.
3) There is also little supporting evidence that banning large capacity magazines had a positive effect(the fatality rate of those involved in shootings was slightly higher during the ban). Also explain how they do not change the rate of fire.
4) Maybe very briefly explain the usefulness of semi-automatic rifles, how they work well for sport shooting, hunting and self defense.

The public needs to get the message that "assault weapons" are not a real thing, the assault weapons idea was a realization they could sell a ban to the public because of the general perception of those features; and that an AWB will not prevent crime.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 11:44
It's the truth, and he said it straightforward without sugarcoating or usng euphemisms. What more do you want? The American people need a big dose of reality and he gave it to them. If someone is too much of a candyass to handle that news, screw him.


Is that the goal, to convey reality to a nation that voted B.O. into a second term?

To my thinking, the more important and immediate goal is to prevent Congress from abrogating the 2nd Amendment.
(any more so than they've done already that is..)

Atlas
12-23-2012, 11:50
And teleprompters.

Hell yes.
We're in a battle for "hearts and minds" here.

We must become as media-savy as the left or we will eventually loose.

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 11:55
I agree, there are so many facts, reports and general gun knowledge out there that supports our side. We constantly talk about how ignorant the anti's are. The majority of the public does not understand the difference between selective fire assault rifles, guns targeted under the AWB and plain hunting rifles. They think there is a real functional difference between "assault weapons" and other guns. Heck, I saw a video yesterday of Bloomberg telling a reporter with an assault weapon you just hold down the trigger and it fires multiple rounds. The general public knows almost nothing about this subject... but what if they did?
It doesn't have to be a long drawn out explanation. Just briefly cover:
1) The AWB does not target guns that function differently and explain why.
2) We tried an AWB and there is little supporting evidence of its effectiveness and cite sources.
3) There is also little supporting evidence that banning large capacity magazines had a positive effect(the fatality rate of those involved in shootings was slightly higher during the ban). Also explain how they do not change the rate of fire.
4) Maybe very briefly explain the usefulness of semi-automatic rifles, how they work well for sport shooting, hunting and self defense.

The public needs to get the message that "assault weapons" are not a real thing, the assault weapons idea was a realization they could sell a ban to the public because of the general perception of those features; and that an AWB will not prevent crime.

The NRA should release a "fact sheet" in very basic language...I think any press release they put out would get reported right now.

But keep it simple...very basic.

5-6 basic facts setting people straight regarding the function and reality of what an AR 15 (for example) is and does.
A little info on current laws regarding actual automatic weapons so they understand how restrictive that is.
Maybe debunk some of the mis-information that is being spread.
Remind people how many guns are out there already.
Remind people that columbine/clackamass mall/and sandy hook shooters all stole their guns...as is common with these incidents and that a ban or more restrictive laws would not impact that method of getting guns.

And finally...ask again why it's a good idea to guard money with armed guards, but guarding children with armed police officers is a non starter.

Resist the temptation to point out that the officers hired to protect the schools would not only make them safer...but would also represent Obama's largest addition to the workforce. :supergrin:

countrygun
12-23-2012, 12:12
Because mass killings NEVER happened before movies and videos games existed:upeyes:

By young people, no, not much actually.

Face the obvious fact and learn something from another issue.

The hue and cry over the last 30 years about smoking in movies and TV. It became a "campaign" to all but obliterates it because, according to some 'it influenced young people to smoke."

In case you don't remember what it was like 30 years ago, smoking in movies and on TV was as common, as violence in Tarentino movies.


Want to make a case that smoking hasn't gone down in society?

If what people see on TV doesn't work, why should advertising and campaigning be so successful then?

Imagine that effect in a two-hour movie, or in a video game where they are actually co-participants.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 12:49
Hell yes.
We're in a battle for "hearts and minds" here.

We must become as media-savy as the left or we will eventually loose.

It killed me to watch him have to break cadence and look down at his paper every 25 words.

Seriously? Can't put a couple prompters up there?

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 12:50
LaPierre is fine on paper, but he always struck me as looking like a nervous ferret. A little too Snidely Whiplash, beady eyes, chopped delivery. Its about PR and unfortunately a little more than half the country is not the sharpest knife in drawer and will need to either see him place on American Idol or something of a better public performance and delivery before they'll cotton to him.

It doesn't matter that he's right.

It doesn't matter that the idiot President and the Fourth Estate want non-sequitors that have nothing to do with what actually happened. The low information voters, the knee-jerk reaction crowd expect thinking to be done for them and fashion + delivery outweighs logic here. Sad but it is what it is.

We need Tom Hanks

Atlas
12-23-2012, 12:55
The entire event was just painful.
I'm sure LaPierre is a great guy, and with all due respect to his considerable contribution to preserving our 2A rights, I gotta agree 100% with the OP...

LaPierre is just not a PR guy. He doesn't have the "stage presence", experience, or training to do what needs to be done.
In 2012 that matters, it matters a great deal.


I believe we can all contribute by working to make this clear to the NRA in a constructive manner. There's far too much at stake here to fail to take media relations seriously. We still have the 2nd Amendment at this time. That means we are not helpless. We can do what needs to be done. And becoming 100% media-competent needs to happen, and happen damned quickly.

Billua
12-23-2012, 12:59
they do have the corner on hot chicks.

Not necessarily! :supergrin:

NRA-ILA Grassroots News Minute 06/24/11 - YouTube

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 14:08
The entire event was just painful.
I'm sure LaPierre is a great guy, and with all due respect to his considerable contribution to preserving our 2A rights, I gotta agree 100% with the OP...

LaPierre is just not a PR guy. He doesn't have the "stage presence", experience, or training to do what needs to be done.
In 2012 that matters, it matters a great deal.


I believe we can all contribute by working to make this clear to the NRA in a constructive manner. There's far too much at stake here to fail to take media relations seriously. We still have the 2nd Amendment at this time. That means we are not helpless. We can do what needs to be done. And becoming 100% media-competent needs to happen, and happen damned quickly.

A female spokesperson would be interesting.

Dan_ntx
12-23-2012, 14:20
By young people, no, not much actually.

Face the obvious fact and learn something from another issue.

The hue and cry over the last 30 years about smoking in movies and TV. It became a "campaign" to all but obliterates it because, according to some 'it influenced young people to smoke."

In case you don't remember what it was like 30 years ago, smoking in movies and on TV was as common, as violence in Tarentino movies.


Want to make a case that smoking hasn't gone down in society?

If what people see on TV doesn't work, why should advertising and campaigning be so successful then?

Imagine that effect in a two-hour movie, or in a video game where they are actually co-participants.

I respectfully disagree.

Smoking 30 years ago was cheap, popular, socially acceptable, well advertised, and supposedly without health consequences.

That bubble was popped. It has been taxed, where you can do it regulated, no more advertising, socially discouraged, and not only has it been proven it will kill you...they now put pictures on packs and have ads showing you how.

I agree it is not in movies anymore...but that is probably the least effective measure in the anti smoking campaign. Honestly I think it has been priced out of reach of many in the former smokers demographic.

Also, to just say that young people didn't commit mass killings before video games certainly doesn't make it true. Charles Whitman ring a bell? I think there were fewer known incidents, but that is likely due to population density and instant media coverage.

dieknow
12-23-2012, 14:27
The mental health system (whats left of it) is broken in America. As is the case with most .gov funded and regulated industries, it is not in the position to do anything.

I do not believe violent movies and video games cause more violent attacks by mentally unstable people. I believe that mentally unstable people who do not receive proper mental health care are more likely to have a violent outburst...and there is a movie or video game that will bear a resemblance to their action because movies and video games are reflective of our society.

Even a mentally unstable person on a rampage has a survival instinct, and they tend to gravitate to places where they have the opportunity to inflict the harm they wish to inflict and not be stopped or challenged. Malls, schools, movie theaters, hospitals, etc. You don't see many attacks on police stations or gun stores or pawn shops...because even they understand that it would not turn out they way they want. Violent attacks by mentally unstable people happened before video games and movies.

I don't believe for a second that video games and movies desensitize people that are mentally stable. Rational, sane people (children included) know and understand the difference between real life and the screen. And regulating industries because of the possibility of it's affect of the mentally unstable is not practical...it would be tough to buy a beer or a car if it were as those objects lead to more deaths than guns ever will.

I agree with much of this. :wavey:

rauldduke1979
12-23-2012, 14:38
Wayne Lapierre is damn near genius.

Please allow me to explain: Saying that the mainstream media in our society has the intelligence of a golden retriever is an insult golden retrievers. The NRA understands that engaging them in a debate, trying to talk statistic, etc. is pointless. So, the NRA decided t treat the media like the dogs that they are and wave a squeaky toy in front of their face and say "hear boy, you want this toy, do you, go fetch".

And it worked.

The media-dogs dropped the bone they has been chewing for about a week (gun control) and now they're chewing on the NRA's proposal. Is it a serious idea? I don't knw, but it doesn't matter. All the NRA had to do was change the story and get the media to look the other way while they (the NRA) develops a strategy for delaying and killing whatever legslation Obama dreams up.

countrygun
12-23-2012, 14:39
I respectfully disagree.

Smoking 30 years ago was cheap, popular, socially acceptable, well advertised, and supposedly without health consequences.

That bubble was popped. It has been taxed, where you can do it regulated, no more advertising, socially discouraged, and not only has it been proven it will kill you...they now put pictures on packs and have ads showing you how.

I agree it is not in movies anymore...but that is probably the least effective measure in the anti smoking campaign. Honestly I think it has been priced out of reach of many in the former smokers demographic.

Also, to just say that young people didn't commit mass killings before video games certainly doesn't make it true. Charles Whitman ring a bell? I think there were fewer known incidents, but that is likely due to population density and instant media coverage.

I know more about the Whitman case than you could ever possibly know. A former employee of mine was in the middle of it from the Law Enforcement end, even got interviewed, by a major network, from my office on the anniversary a few years ago.

Charles Whitman was not a kid by a long shot. He also had a biological and identifiable brain issue.

Of course the US military must be all wrong about the value of videos to train people to shoot other people, right?

Flying-Dutchman
12-23-2012, 14:57
This guy is an idiot. I've heard him speak a few times now and I can't believe this is the guy the NRA chooses to go in front of a camera. He's slow and doesn't have an ounce of wit. Spewing the same crap about violent video games for the last two decades ain't going to cut it.

If he's the guy that's supposed to help ease the mindset of people, then forget it. It's over before it even started.

Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.
You could have the most popular celebrity in the Country pitch for the NRA and the new media would crucify him or her.

The MSM is the leftist propaganda machine no different than Pravda. The news media is disconnected from the will of the people.

Notice most of the comments are pro-gun on internet news articles.

Notice guns sales are skyrocketing.

LaPierre is a dinosaur mainstream America circa 1960; completely out-of-step with today’s knee jerk non-thinking pure emotion driven Obama voter.

What should LaPierre have said?

I half expected him to say, “Let’s ban all semi-auto guns. I am sorry for what the NRA has done.”

Flying-Dutchman
12-23-2012, 15:08
The video game item on the agenda was mentioned for deflection purposes, I think. He was trying to deflect the issue away from guns onto video games. So what's the answer, outlaw video games?

It doesn't make sense.
Exactly.

The NRA has no power to outlaw video games or imprison the insane.

LaPierre was deflecting the issue away from an inanimate object.

LaPierre was trying to explain the unexplainable; why a 20 year old man would murder his mother in order to steal guns and a car, in order to drive 5 miles in order to shoot point blank 20 6 year olds he never met.

The Government can disarm us, but the next psycho will use gasoline or a truck and we will be less free and more vulnerable.

JohnBT
12-23-2012, 15:14
"This guy is an idiot."

Like hell he is.

Flying-Dutchman
12-23-2012, 15:30
The NRA did not cave in at a time when there has been a lot of caving in by our side.

LaPierre came across as a decent old school common sense American.

He had a tough job; you could sense the hate from the crowd of journalists and they were slow to stop the Code Pink protestors.

I am an NRA member and will give a little extra now.

When I watched the news conference I thought of my elderly neighbor who in utter disgust regarding America today said, “I do not belong in this world anymore.”

truetopath
12-23-2012, 15:33
Wayne Lapierre is damn near genius.

Please allow me to explain: Saying that the mainstream media in our society has the intelligence of a golden retriever is an insult golden retrievers. The NRA understands that engaging them in a debate, trying to talk statistic, etc. is pointless. So, the NRA decided t treat the media like the dogs that they are and wave a squeaky toy in front of their face and say "hear boy, you want this toy, do you, go fetch".

And it worked.

The media-dogs dropped the bone they has been chewing for about a week (gun control) and now they're chewing on the NRA's proposal. Is it a serious idea? I don't knw, but it doesn't matter. All the NRA had to do was change the story and get the media to look the other way while they (the NRA) develops a strategy for delaying and killing whatever legslation Obama dreams up.

This is the most logical post I've seen in this thread yet.

G36's Rule
12-23-2012, 15:34
Really? You know what you're talking about since I joined as a lifetime member two days ago. Tell me about all the backing you do please

Been a life member for years. Give to the -ILA regularly. More importantly I've been on the phone with the offices of my reps and senators repeatedly since this insanity started.

What I refuse to do is throw the guys on our side over board when they are trying to defend our rights.

You on the other hand...

Kentucky Shooter
12-23-2012, 15:38
Wayne did a solid job this morning--- under relentless pressure, he stuck to his guns and failed to concede his position. Few of us could have done better. Lets be pissed off at NBC's David Gregory for implying Wayne and the NRA is as guilty as the nuts who have been pulling the trigger in these shootings.

Wayne is the last guy we need to be upset with.

.45Super-Man
12-23-2012, 16:10
This is a slippery slope and the state owned 'mainstream media' is once again being used as the tip of the spear that's aimed at the very heart of liberty. And now the very ones that were caught red handed trying to destroy the 2nd amendment from within(fast & furious)are going to try this again???

G29Reload
12-23-2012, 16:19
We need Tom Hanks

Well, he's an anti.


We need someone telegenic, well spoken, quick on the their feet on top of being sound with all the laws, rules and regs.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 16:22
Well, he's an anti.


We need someone telegenic, well spoken, quick on the their feet on top of being sound with all the laws, rules and regs.

Wilford Diabeetus Brimley

frank4570
12-23-2012, 16:23
Lapierre's terrible in front of the camera. He comes across as insincere. They should hire a professional.
Asa Hutchison seemed confident, capable and honest.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 16:24
Actually Bobby Jindal would be an excellent choice

CanMan
12-23-2012, 16:49
As a society - and we are different from Japan or France, or Sweden, or Israel or South Africa, Britian, etc etc...

What do you think the reaction from game makers, Hollywood, the 4th estate and other luminaries of the 1st amendment would be if scientific study does point to some restraint on some of the things I have articulated above?



That right there would get the ACLU moving overtime!
It's okay to promote and profit from violence.... just so long as it's someone else's liberties being forfeited in the process.

nmstew
12-23-2012, 17:07
Actually Bobby Jindal would be an excellent choice

An interesting idea. I remember hearing something about him helping Katrina victims get guns back, or at least pass legislation stating that guns cannot be confiscated in such moments.

Is this true?

I like Jindal, but Indians tend to be very liberal, especially on gun control. This is coming from a 1/2 Indian, myself. Jindal is something of an enigma in that regard. I think this position would be a great steppingstone to 2016.

ateamer
12-23-2012, 17:56
Bobby Jindal is American, not Indian. He's born and raised in Louisiana. Listen to him talk.

certifiedfunds
12-23-2012, 18:46
Bobby Jindal is American, not Indian. He's born and raised in Louisiana. Listen to him talk.

You want someone sharp, articulate and in command of the facts who can chew his opponents up in an ad hoc debate? That's bobby.

G36's Rule
12-23-2012, 18:51
Jindal is a good man.

Drain You
12-23-2012, 18:57
Gun violence is not the fault of video games, it is 2 Live Crew's fault.

Gunny Lingus
12-23-2012, 18:59
Wayne Lapierre is damn near genius.

Please allow me to explain: Saying that the mainstream media in our society has the intelligence of a golden retriever is an insult golden retrievers. The NRA understands that engaging them in a debate, trying to talk statistic, etc. is pointless. So, the NRA decided t treat the media like the dogs that they are and wave a squeaky toy in front of their face and say "hear boy, you want this toy, do you, go fetch".

And it worked.

The media-dogs dropped the bone they has been chewing for about a week (gun control) and now they're chewing on the NRA's proposal. Is it a serious idea? I don't knw, but it doesn't matter. All the NRA had to do was change the story and get the media to look the other way while they (the NRA) develops a strategy for delaying and killing whatever legslation Obama dreams up.


Yeah, and I remember when I was in school, and had a C on my report card. My father would get mad, so I would wear his belt out with my butt, and make his arm tired. I really showed him.

It's not unlike how Rocky Balboa would wear out Apollo Creeds fist with headbutts.

rauldduke1979
12-23-2012, 20:58
Yeah, and I remember when I was in school, and had a C on my report card. My father would get mad, so I would wear his belt out with my butt, and make his arm tired. I really showed him.

It's not unlike how Rocky Balboa would wear out Apollo Creeds fist with headbutts.


I disagree with your analogy. It would be more like if you brought home a C and your dad was lecturing you about how you would be punished and you said "but the school has asbestos!"

And 5 minutes later he was on the phone to the school board asking about asbestos in the schools, while you remained safely unwhipped.

Fox
12-23-2012, 21:11
Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.

It needs to be said because it's the truth. The "gun free zones" make it so that only the bad guys have guns. Faculty and staff should be allowed to carry a concealed handgun if they a CCW.

BEER
12-23-2012, 23:06
first of all, i'm not crazy about WLP either, but at least he's not that loudmouth blowhard nugent. that dumb sob was an absolute pr nightmare for the nra and anybody else in the U.S.

secondly, i've said it before and i'll say it again, yall really don't want to go too far down the "mentally ill" road. i'm shocked and appalled that i'm the only one seeing the dangerous curve that crap is going to lead to. think that one through for a few seconds before you sign off on it.

lastly, i'm tired of defending videogames. yall wanna demonize them then go ahead but realize that blaming videogames for this sort of madness is no freaking different than blaming guns. the violence in videogames is no more responsible than the proliferation of guns in this country. just like the antis yall are looking for a scapegoat instead of facing the real problem. no gun ever jumped up and shot anybody on it's own, and no videogame ever started itself and forced anybody to play it.

stevelyn
12-23-2012, 23:19
Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.

Personally, I would rather have seen Ted Nugent up there beating the **** out of David Gregory, LaPierre spoke the cold hard truth. It needed to be said. It needs to be repeated often.

Explain what is so unbelieveable.

Jake Starr
12-24-2012, 05:23
Of course the US military must be all wrong about the value of videos to train people to shoot other people, right?


Those who see no link have not been exposed to serious training or the study thereof...:upeyes:

In life there is most always someone better or less equipped to do a job. But often the job falls to the person who happens to be there at the time. WLP, for now, is what we have. The guy is on our side. Why is it that other gun people want to shoot the messenger?

Chonny
12-24-2012, 06:34
Most of you guys missed the NRAs strategy.

Mr. LaPierre proposed an agenda and wants it to be put in place before the first day of congress, which happens to be the day that old whats her name was going to introduce her new AWB.

The NRA has a realistic solution to the problem and they asked for immediate action and not trying to politicize the event by introducing legislation in one of the more divided congresses we have ever had.

He has been on various talk shows while the issue is current letting the American people know that the NRA is against gun violence.

It's not LaPierre's job to explain to the media whats wrong with the country he is supposed to stand up for gun rights and I thought he actually did that.

The actually impressed me with this strategy and I thought that they outperformed my expectations.

Gallium
12-24-2012, 06:50
first of all, i'm not crazy about WLP either, but at least he's not that loudmouth blowhard nugent. that dumb sob was an absolute pr nightmare for the nra and anybody else in the U.S.

secondly, i've said it before and i'll say it again, yall really don't want to go too far down the "mentally ill" road. i'm shocked and appalled that i'm the only one seeing the dangerous curve that crap is going to lead to. think that one through for a few seconds before you sign off on it.

lastly, i'm tired of defending videogames. yall wanna demonize them then go ahead but realize that blaming videogames for this sort of madness is no freaking different than blaming guns. the violence in videogames is no more responsible than the proliferation of guns in this country. just like the antis yall are looking for a scapegoat instead of facing the real problem. no gun ever jumped up and shot anybody on it's own, and no videogame ever started itself and forced anybody to play it.

A 20 year old stole his mother guns, killed her, then drove some distance to kill 20 kids he did not know, and six other adults at that school.

To what would you attribute his deviation from the norm? Something he ate for breakfast? A bee-sting? Breakup with an elder boyfriend?

Here is the truth: Access to guns + mental instability + shooter games = really bad mix for those already close to or at the tipping point. It would be irresponsible for us to simply "oh well, sick bastards are always gonna exist and kill us" mentality.

For the record I don't believe in, or agree with gun-free zones. I call them sanity-free kill-ready zones, because it is insane that a society which knows better, let a bunch of wishy washy FEMALES who emphasize how they "feel" talk us into creating these kill-ready zones.

RC-RAMIE
12-24-2012, 07:02
So we should regulate video games?

Harper
12-24-2012, 09:26
So we should regulate video games?

Maybe we should have an assault games ban to ban games that people unfamiliar with the subject find scary...you know, for the children.

Seriously, I haven't seen the anti-video game crowd post any studies.

Gallium
12-24-2012, 11:15
So we should regulate video games?


The answer is: Video games are already "regulated". Do you mean if we should pass legislation that dictates how they may be disseminated?

The answer is maybe. The right questions are not being asked.

For example:



How well can we expect a collective of people to self-regulate themselves in activities where the propensity for injury to others or damage to property is great? (the answer is, we generally cannot depend on "the majority" of people in a non-homogenous society to toe the line without some sort of legal or moral sanction). A clear example is the mother of the deceased nut-bag. Clearly, her firearms were not stored in a manner in which someone else of dubious mental state could get to them. We know SHE KNEW her son was nuts, based on reports of her attempts to having him committed.
What effect does reporting these types of mass killings have on attempts by other killers? The answer is, we don't know, but we should certainly investigate.
If wall to wall reporting of these killings is an impetus for other wannabe killers, and given we know any given group of folks do not self-regulate without some sort of "threat", what legislative action should be taken to ensure the media does not directly or inadvertently make these deviants larger than life? The answer is, I don't know, but I do know if the 1st was gutted to to 5% of the extent the 2nd has been gutted, the media would be howling until the next Mayan calendar ends.
Are gun free zones effective? The answer is, no, not in the USA. They are mostly effective in gun-free societies, and even then, not so effective.

Big Dog Dad
12-24-2012, 11:39
I must say that I think Wayne LaPierre did a great job deflecting the insults and barbs about disarming American citizens. If you think the anti-crowd will be satisfied with stopping at restrictions on certain firearms and accessories then you are living in a dream world. Feinstein, Schummer, Bloomberg, et al will not be satisfied until there are no, I repeat no firearms in the hands of private citizens. Without the NRA and Wayne LaPierre, you would be waking up each morning singing the anthem and praise for our lifetime socialist czar of the socialist states of this country. We're not far from that outcome now. Let's hope we never go that way so support, don't ridicule, the NRA and its leaders.

-=BDD=-

RC-RAMIE
12-24-2012, 13:05
The answer is: Video games are already "regulated". Do you mean if we should pass legislation that dictates how they may be disseminated?

The answer is maybe. The right questions are not being asked.

For example:



How well can we expect a collective of people to self-regulate themselves in activities where the propensity for injury to others or damage to property is great? (the answer is, we generally cannot depend on "the majority" of people in a non-homogenous society to toe the line without some sort of legal or moral sanction). A clear example is the mother of the deceased nut-bag. Clearly, her firearms were not stored in a manner in which someone else of dubious mental state could get to them. We know SHE KNEW her son was nuts, based on reports of her attempts to having him committed.
What effect does reporting these types of mass killings have on attempts by other killers? The answer is, we don't know, but we should certainly investigate.
If wall to wall reporting of these killings is an impetus for other wannabe killers, and given we know any given group of folks do not self-regulate without some sort of "threat", what legislative action should be taken to ensure the media does not directly or inadvertently make these deviants larger than life? The answer is, I don't know, but I do know if the 1st was gutted to to 5% of the extent the 2nd has been gutted, the media would be howling until the next Mayan calendar ends.
Are gun free zones effective? The answer is, no, not in the USA. They are mostly effective in gun-free societies, and even then, not so effective.


What federal regulations are on video games?

ETA what does all that have to do with video games?
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Narkcop
12-24-2012, 13:37
I think Wayne LaPierre did a pretty good job in light of the fact that he was facing a pack of anti-gun media hyenas.If they had quizzed the Kenyan this hard he never would be in the oval office.

Kentucky Shooter
12-24-2012, 21:31
I must say that I think Wayne LaPierre did a great job deflecting the insults and barbs about disarming American citizens. If you think the anti-crowd will be satisfied with stopping at restrictions on certain firearms and accessories then you are living in a dream world. Feinstein, Schummer, Bloomberg, et al will not be satisfied until there are no, I repeat no firearms in the hands of private citizens. Without the NRA and Wayne LaPierre, you would be waking up each morning singing the anthem and praise for our lifetime socialist czar of the socialist states of this country. We're not far from that outcome now. Let's hope we never go that way so support, don't ridicule, the NRA and its leaders.

-=BDD=-



Good post-- very true!

Billua
12-24-2012, 21:47
http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian

4949shooter
12-25-2012, 05:01
The bottom line?

We could have had better and we could have had worse.

Where is Tom Selleck?

certifiedfunds
12-25-2012, 06:10
Where is Tom Selleck?

Rosie ODonnell ate him

Gallium
12-25-2012, 06:20
What federal regulations are on video games?

ETA what does all that have to do with video games?
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)




You did not say "federal" regulations in your post that I quoted. There are lots of guns laws that are not at the federal level, and this massacre in CT is absolutely going to be the fuel that get a few more on the books irrespective of what is done at the federal level.



Have you ever heard of the ESRB? Do you know how it came into being?



What does all of this have to do with video games? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_controversies



What does all of this have to do with video games? The USSC struck down a CA law banning the sale of violent video games to children. This demonstrates just how sacrosanct the 1st is, while the 2nd is readily available for instant carving and pruning.

Kasinefect
12-25-2012, 06:51
I did like how Wayne explained how CCW are often issued in New York City-to the rich and famous and freinds of the Mayor. It was a shame that he did not bring up,(perhaps he did not know-I did'nt), where David Gregory sends his kids to school-with armed guards but does not want the same for the rest of us. Yes he could have been better but he could also have been far worse.

LL6
12-25-2012, 07:23
http://www.xblafans.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/04/esrb.png

Trying to draw video games into this is a very slippery slope because ultimately it will go much further than games.

So like previously mentioned all video games are rated. If we are going to blame them how many parents are contributing to the problem? Who knows an 8 year old nephew or maybe their 10 year old who plays COD (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=32552&Title=Call%20of%20Duty%3A%20Black%20Ops%20II&searchkeyword=call%20of%20duty)? They range from a T to M rating.

Then if video games contribute how about movies and TV shows? The very popular The Walking Dead (http://www.eonline.com/news/371249/the-walking-dead-s-tv-14-rating-under-fire-due-to-amc-series-brutally-intense-violence-and-gore) carries a TV-14 rating and it is under attack about being too lenient of a rating. How many parents let their "underage" kids watch it?

So are you "it's-the-video-games" suggesting our entire system needs a revamp? :dunno:

*edit* bad link

Gallium
12-25-2012, 07:31
Trying to draw video games into this is a very slippery slope because ultimately it will go much further than games.

So like previously mentioned all video games are rated. If we are going to blame them how many parents are contributing to the problem? Who knows an 8 year old nephew or maybe their 10 year old who plays COD (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp)? They range from a T to M rating.

Then if video games contribute how about movies and TV shows? The very popular The Walking Dead (http://www.eonline.com/news/371249/the-walking-dead-s-tv-14-rating-under-fire-due-to-amc-series-brutally-intense-violence-and-gore) carries a TV-14 rating and it is under attack about being too lenient of a rating. How many parents let their "underage" kids watch it?

So are you "it's-the-video-games" suggesting our entire system needs a revamp? :dunno:

I have suggested that as a society, we need to look at everything. It is plausible that violent games have an effect on those who are mentally unbalanced. We already know that some types of video effects can trigger seizures in kids who have a history, or are prone to seizures.

I have seen 1st hand that guns in the hands of people not prepared to deal with having a gun simply don't know how to handle a gun. I'm not proposing any legislation to ban those people from possessing guns - what I advocate is that we know who the idiots around us are. I also recognize that as a society , THIS SOCIETY, we are very disinclined to self-policing, and I also know that as a society, legislation alone has never addressed one social ill. There has always been a need for education, social pressure, legislation and awareness to cause change.

Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays.

LL6
12-25-2012, 07:42
I have suggested that as a society, we need to look at everything. It is plausible that violent games have an effect on those who are mentally unbalanced. We already know that some types of video effects can trigger seizures in kids who have a history, or are prone to seizures.

I have seen 1st hand that guns in the hands of people not prepared to deal with having a gun simply don't know how to handle a gun. I'm not proposing any legislation to ban those people from possessing guns - what I advocate is that we know who the idiots around us are. I also recognize that as a society , THIS SOCIETY, we are very disinclined to self-policing, and I also know that as a society, legislation alone has never addressed one social ill. There has always been a need for education, social pressure, legislation and awareness to cause change.

Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays.

I'm actually on the fence with the subject. All my kids are grown, but I raised them with age limits in mind. I'm just curious if everyone realizes where involving video games could lead.

The other part which puts me on the fence is I'm also a quasi-gamer and I have spent some time in MMOs. In these games I have frequently encountered under-aged kids. In some of these cases I know the kids are disturbed, but was it the fault of the game or the parents, etc?

M&P Shooter
12-25-2012, 07:44
This guy is an idiot. I've heard him speak a few times now and I can't believe this is the guy the NRA chooses to go in front of a camera. He's slow and doesn't have an ounce of wit. Spewing the same crap about violent video games for the last two decades ain't going to cut it.

If he's the guy that's supposed to help ease the mindset of people, then forget it. It's over before it even started.

Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.I 100% agree, this guy is killing us:crying: He sounds like a robot with a sleeping disorder!

LL6
12-25-2012, 07:48
...and btw I vote this guy for NRA spokesperson. He always seemed so happy. ;)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BYX14125JUQ/R7-c16enrWI/AAAAAAAAEsU/NMAsZgFQrP0/s400/Smiling_Bob.jpg

Merry Christmas!

Gallium
12-25-2012, 08:10
I'm actually on the fence with the subject. All my kids are grown, but I raised them with age limits in mind. I'm just curious if everyone realizes where involving video games could lead.

The other part which puts me on the fence is I'm also a quasi-gamer and I have spent some time in MMOs. In these games I have frequently encountered under-aged kids. In some of these cases I know the kids are disturbed, but was it the fault of the game or the parents, etc?


I am not debating this from a position of emotion or anecdotal stories. I have very clearly stated we need to look at if there is an effect on the mentally unstable with everything. We already know (scientifically proven) that certain types of screen transitions can trigger seizures in some kids. I am not advocating banning anything, and frankly, I don't care where something leads, if it leads to the truth, and a higher level of knowledge.

certifiedfunds
12-25-2012, 09:31
It's a parenting issue, the games work as designed b

Gallium
12-25-2012, 09:54
It's a parenting issue, the games work as designed b


No, it is far more than that. It is primarily a "knowledge" issue. Years ago we used asbestos and lead in some household products.

We cannot take steps to function within normal parameters if we don't know that externalities are affecting us (for better or worse).

I don' know what, if any effect games, violent movies or lack of **** have on the mindset of an emerging adult male with a documented mental issue. I am not averse to keeping an open mind that something might be going on in their heads.

You know as well as I do that the human brain (mind) is one of the last frontiers of medical science.

:cool:

RC-RAMIE
12-25-2012, 10:47
You did not say "federal" regulations in your post that I quoted. There are lots of guns laws that are not at the federal level, and this massacre in CT is absolutely going to be the fuel that get a few more on the books irrespective of what is done at the federal level.



Have you ever heard of the ESRB? Do you know how it came into being?



What does all of this have to do with video games? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_controversies



What does all of this have to do with video games? The USSC struck down a CA law banning the sale of violent video games to children. This demonstrates just how sacrosanct the 1st is, while the 2nd is readily available for instant carving and pruning.


Yes the ESRB is a standard set forth by the companies themselves. The USSC struck down a law banning sale of violent games demonstrates there is no government regulations. Do we need some?

alexanderg23
12-25-2012, 12:20
I like him!

Gallium
12-25-2012, 13:33
Yes the ESRB is a standard set forth by the companies themselves. The USSC struck down a law banning sale of violent games demonstrates there is no government regulations. Do we need some?


I don't know. What I care more about is to determine (affirm or rule out) if there is a relationship between violent games and the mentally unstable.

Just like I want to determine if there is a relationship between killer worship (in quotes) by the media and acts of madness (like the Sandy Hook killings).

Because I know for certain that banning guns and more gun laws won't stop em.

sum-dum-guy
12-25-2012, 13:44
I think Wayne LaPierre did a pretty good job in light of the fact that he was facing a pack of anti-gun media hyenas.If they had quizzed the Kenyan this hard he never would be in the oval office.

Agreed

sum-dum-guy
12-25-2012, 13:50
Lt Col Dave Grossman: I train military and law enforcement nation-wide, on the road almost 300 days a year for 15 years. I was an Army Ranger and a West Point Psych Professor. An author of many very successful books on this subject. This is the perspective that I come from...

vs some bombastic blowhard like Piers Morgan or some other dumbass celebrity/producer/director



Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill

Dave Grossman, Lt. Col. USA (ret.)
Author of On Killing, On Combat, Warrior Mindset, and Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill
www.GetBulletProofMind.com

****

So, the brutal, merciless, savage mass murderer of first-graders in Connecticut was another in a long line of avid video game players who turned their sick fantasy into our tragic reality. Surprised?

I train military and law enforcement nation-wide, on the road almost 300 days a year for 15 years. I was an Army Ranger and a West Point Psych Professor. An author of many very successful books on this subject. This is the perspective that I come from...

Bottom line: From a military and law enforcement perspective, violent video games are "murder simulators" that train kids to kill. They act just like police and military simulators, providing conditioned responses, killing skills, and desensitization, except they are inflicted on children without the discipline of military and police training.

Research on the background of our juvenile mass murderers show they have one thing in common: they ALL dropped out of life and filled their lives with nothing but violent movies and violent video games. The sickest video games and the sickest movies are very very sick indeed. And the sick sick kids who immerse themselves in this "entertainment" are very sick indeed.

Jonesboro in the middle school, Columbine in the high school, Virginia Tech in the college, and now this generation gives us Sandy Hook as adults…

The Sandy Hook massacre has been building for years. And there is much, much worse yet to come. (They are NOT "shootings" they are massacres ... five died in the "Boston Massacre" which touched off the American Revolution … six murdered in the "St. Valentines Day Massacre" … many times more were murdered in Sandy Hook and we hide the reality from ourselves by calling it a "shooting" … "shooting" is what happens on the range … a "shooter" is the guy who got lucky during deer season! These are brutal mass murderers, committing savage massacres unlike anything seen in human history.)

This has all been building up for years. Consider the stats on officers murdered in the line of duty in the US:

'08: 42
'09: 48
'10: 56
'11: 72

Anyone see a pattern here? Medical technology is holding DOWN the murder rate. The number of murdered cops should be going down every year.

These are criminals who practiced killing cops since they were six years old, every day of their lives, playing Grand Theft Auto, and now they are primed to kill cops as adults.

If we intentionally tried to raise a generation cocked and primed to kill, we could not have done a better job.

The answer? Parents MUST enforce the rating system. They MUST understand the danger. To do that, they must be informed by our media! And the schools must begin to educate their kids! Go to www.TakeTheChallengeNow.net to learn about a school TV-turnoff curriculum pioneered by Stanford Med School and demonstrated to cut school violence and bullying in half!

An "M" (mature, 17 and above ONLY) rated game is the same as an "X" rated movie! The people who manufacture the game say so. Their own industry says so! A "T" (teen) rating means no child under 13 should play the game. Period. It is a very tragic, horrendous situation when adults let their children immerse themselves in M rated games! Just like, sex, gambling, porn, alcohol, tobacco, drugs, guns, and automobiles: these are all things that adults must not give to kids!

Not all of the kids who play these sick games will become killers, but they will all be desensitized to human death and suffering, intentionally and realistically inflicted by themselves, for their own entertainment…

If YOUR child is one who commits a brutal crime, and YOU let them play these sick games, then the blood is on your hands too… (And YOU may well be the first one to die, as with this most recent incident.)

This is NOT business as usual in America. Never lose your sense of outrage that every kid in America has to do lock-down drills, practicing "hunkering down and hiding" for when kids come to kill them. Never lose your sense of outrage that all of our cops practice going in our schools and shooting our kids with "active shooter response plans." These things are necessary, they work, they deter violent acts and they can save lives and hold down the body count when it does happen, but they are not normal. This is NOT just another day in America. This is NOT "business as usual" in America… Something is very, very wrong.

And it is a world-wide phenomenon! Germany has had two mass murders in their high schools with body counts that beat Columbine. England had a massacre in the kindergarden class in Dunblain Scotland, tragically forecasting Sandy Hook. Canada had the Taber, Alberta school massacre. Finland has had three school massacres. In Norway the killer got on an island and killed all their kids. In China killers are going in the classrooms with knives and gutting and hacking the kids. In Belgium a sicko got in the day care center and hacked 12 babies in the cribs, dressed as the Joker form the Batman movie. (All those European gun laws made THEM real safe, eh?)

And we though it wouldn't happen here!?

And you think it's over now? The worst is yet to come. We will reap what we sow for a generation to come…. Until we stop teaching our kids to kill.

sum-dum-guy
12-25-2012, 13:53
Ultimately, I personally believe that the decay began as we destroyed the family unit. Are there people that can play violent video games and not be affected? Of course! Are there people that can drink alcohol and not become alcoholics? Of course!

But there are people that are susceptible. Normally, the parent would know enough about their kid to know if they can handle it or not. But all too often nowadays, that is not the case. So there are no checks in place.

Is regulation of everything the answer? No. But it is easier to pass a law than it is to change a culture. This decay has been decades in the making. It will not be easy to reverse, assuming it can be reversed at this point.

Happypuppy
12-25-2012, 14:21
Ultimately, I personally believe that the decay began as we destroyed the family unit. Are there people that can play violent video games and not be affected? Of course! Are there people that can drink alcohol and not become alcoholics? Of course!

But there are people that are susceptible. Normally, the parent would know enough about their kid to know if they can handle it or not. But all too often nowadays, that is not the case. So there are no checks in place.

Is regulation of everything the answer? No. But it is easier to pass a law than it is to change a culture. This decay has been decades in the making. It will not be easy to reverse, assuming it can be reversed at this point.

Excellent post.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

sum-dum-guy
12-25-2012, 21:56
Unfortunately, try getting them to admit that the social direction of the past decades is a failure

That blaming victims over criminals has failed
That rehab over capital punishment has failed
Understanding their social problems does not make their crimes less horrific
Participation awards are BS
There are winners and losers...not everyone is or will be a winner
There are consequences for actions
Lenient liberal judges do a disservice to the public
Revolving doors on prisons is a failure
The breakdown of a moral fabric leads to the rot of a society
The loss of the family unit destroys the foundation
We all need a moral compass
Personal responsibility means not blaming everyone around you for your problems
Nobody owes you anything
Success or failure depends on you
Stop blaming the majority for the problems of the minority

and so on and so on.....

They will never admit that the social policies of the past decades have led us to this point. They will continue to blame and finger point and legislate away all your freedoms for the greater good because they know what is best for everyone

vettely
12-25-2012, 22:19
Unfortunately, try getting them to admit that the social direction of the past decades is a failure

That blaming victims over criminals has failed
That rehab over capital punishment has failed
Understanding their social problems does not make their crimes less horrific
Participation awards are BS
There are winners and losers...not everyone is or will be a winner
There are consequences for actions
Lenient liberal judges do a disservice to the public
Revolving doors on prisons is a failure
The breakdown of a moral fabric leads to the rot of a society
The loss of the family unit destroys the foundation
We all need a moral compass
Personal responsibility means not blaming everyone around you for your problems
Nobody owes you anything
Success or failure depends on you
Stop blaming the majority for the problems of the minority

and so on and so on.....

They will never admit that the social policies of the past decades have led us to this point. They will continue to blame and finger point and legislate away all your freedoms for the greater good because they know what is best for everyone
Another good post.

Gallium
12-25-2012, 22:50
Much of it sounds like Grossman.

Peace Warrior
12-26-2012, 02:06
Wanna stop ranting about about lapierre?

It's called G.O.A. :wavey:

LawScholar
12-26-2012, 02:30
Wanna stop ranting about about lapierre?

It's called G.O.A. :wavey:

Oh yeah, I love paying money for a hired gun that spends half his time shooting at his own side.

Peace Warrior
12-26-2012, 10:14
Oh yeah, I love paying money for a hired gun that spends half his time shooting at his own side.
Choices choices...

Why did the NRA give john mccain a C+ rating in the 2008 election year?

Why did certain of the NRA's leaders, without consulting the NRA's rank and file membership, decide to have private meetings and then form alignments with anti-gunners like pat leahy, chuck schumer, and carolyn mccarthy?

Why concerning the Veterans Disarmament Act way back in 2007, and again currently with the (2011-2012) NDAA, did the NRA's leadership resist opposition completely with the former, and then only come out lightly opposing certain verbiage in the latter?

The GOA tried to work with the NRA in an open manner, but due to the NRA's leadership going rouge on the rank and file members, the GOA has rightly been taking the position of zero compromise ever since it first formed.

certifiedfunds
12-26-2012, 11:16
Choices choices...

Why did the NRA give john mccain a C+ rating in the 2008 election year?

Why did certain of the NRA's leaders, without consulting the NRA's rank and file membership, decide to have private meetings and then form alignments with anti-gunners like pat leahy, chuck schumer, and carolyn mccarthy?

Why concerning the Veterans Disarmament Act way back in 2007, and again currently with the (2011-2012) NDAA, did the NRA's leadership resist opposition completely with the former, and then only come out lightly opposing certain verbiage in the latter?

The GOA tried to work with the NRA in an open manner, but due to the NRA's leadership going rouge on the rank and file members, the GOA has rightly been taking the position of zero compromise ever since it first formed.

Peace - I'm now a member of GOA as well. I have to ask though, what has GOA actually done other than send out press releases?

oldgraywolf
12-26-2012, 11:25
Peace - I'm now a member of GOA as well. I have to ask though, what has GOA actually done other than send out press releases?

I'm also a G.O.A. member and don't see much besides words, either. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to what they've actually accomplished.

The N.R.A. certainly isn't perfect, but there's no denying its clout.

Gallium
12-26-2012, 11:47
I'm also a G.O.A. member and don't see much besides words, either. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to what they've actually accomplished.

The N.R.A. certainly isn't perfect, but there's no denying its clout.


I submit that you may want to look at the actions and results of the SAF.

Happy Holidays.

moeman
12-26-2012, 11:55
The NRA lost me years ago... Things like publishing in their magazines false info/errors in articles about any Democrat their lobby wanted to attack before the election--then small retractions like : oops Mr. XYZ isn't actually antigens, he has a hunting license and has hunted for the past 20 years.

Along with the sleazy practice of sending marketing items I didn't order then try to shake me down for money, hire lack of spine where it counts were the final nails in coffin for me.

Remember the Heller decision in DC to restore handgun rights? The NRA didn't do this others did... When after Katrina when guns were illegally confinsated, the NRA sat quietly since their lobby was pro Bush more than pro gun rights.

Finally, the school press conference: sure it played well to the hardest core of gun owners but it lost ground with gun owners that are OK with some regulations such as a 10 day waiting period.

If a cop in each school is the answer than how did Columbine occur?

certifiedfunds
12-26-2012, 12:03
I submit that you may want to look at the actions and results of the SAF.

Happy Holidays.

I'm now a member of all 3. NRA lifer, joined GOA and SAF post CT shooting.

NRA swings the heaviest stick in terms of numbers and resources. SAF appears to be doing nitty gritty work in the courts. GOA makes me feel good.

I certainly don't like everything about the NRA but when it comes time to be counted in the halls of Congress, the NRA is the only game in town.

Gallium
12-26-2012, 12:09
I'm now a member of all 3. NRA lifer, joined GOA and SAF post CT shooting.

NRA swings the heaviest stick in terms of numbers and resources. SAF appears to be doing nitty gritty work in the courts. GOA makes me feel good.

I certainly don't like everything about the NRA but when it comes time to be counted in the halls of Congress, the NRA is the only game in town.


I didn't "join" the SAF. I made a $50 donation last year, and a $50 donation this year. Also NRA Lifer, and member of state gun organization, plus member of two ranges here and one out of state. Also affiliated to the NRA in other ways.

Sometimes I scratch my head when I see so many folks who claim they enjoy shooting but abhor the NRA and/or other gun rights organizations.

oldgraywolf
12-26-2012, 12:11
I submit that you may want to look at the actions and results of the SAF.

Happy Holidays.

Thanks, and a good idea. :wavey:

sum-dum-guy
12-26-2012, 13:02
handgun, shotgun or carbine?

legislative, judicial or executive?

NRA, GOA or SFA?

How about all 3 for all 3?

redbaron007
12-26-2012, 13:32
LaPierre did the best given the circumstances. He helped deflect the gun issue and offered some constructive alternatives....some of which will be in the politicians hands after the first of the year. He has put the politicians on the defense with the security in a school proposal....so far, those who oppose this, have no counter and it makes them look very partisan.

I found it humorous that David Gregory thought it was a horrible idea to put guns/armed guards in a school......but yet he sends his kids (or reported he did) to a private school with King Obama's kids, that has security plus the secret service.

The NRA, SAF and GOA have their purposes. If you want the heavy weight only, stick with the NRA. However, if you want many facets, then use the others AND your state orgs too!

:wavey:

red

Peace Warrior
12-26-2012, 18:41
I didn't "join" the SAF. I made a $50 donation last year, and a $50 donation this year. Also NRA Lifer, and member of state gun organization, plus member of two ranges here and one out of state. Also affiliated to the NRA in other ways.

Sometimes I scratch my head when I see so many folks who claim they enjoy shooting but abhor the NRA and/or other gun rights organizations.
My "dad's NRA of yesterday" is not the same as "my NRA of today." Period.

ETA: Even in my voting, I go by recordable history, not by press statements during election year(s). I feel about the NRA in the same way; namely, I go by what the NRA does over the long term, and not by what they say during donation drives and or election years.

Again, why did john mccain receive a C+ rating from the NRA? (Answer: They are a politically driven entity rather than pro-Second Amendment organization.) Simply put, based on his history in washington d.c., john mccain is as anti-gun and pro-control as is janet reno.

You see folks, I view the politics in these anti-gun versus the pro-gun platforms as a sum zero entity at first. Then, I find that the anti-guns have an agenda, whether they realize it or not, and their agenda is one of controlling people towards the end of a totalitarian form of government being fashioned here in our united States.

Heck, just the errant termed "Patriot Act" legislation that eviscerated the clear intents and purposes of our united States' Constitution, Bill of Rights, and log standing constitutional Republic form of government were enough to make me understand that the illegal laws usurping the rights of American citizens come years after the technology to trample our rights has already been in place, functioning, and "winked at" by those long term members of our government that agree with globalism.

The order of the rose is not a collection of gardeners. :whistling:

skeeter1959
12-26-2012, 20:21
You people are ridiculous. Please, after the recent events, what would you say up on that podium knowing you have to be sympathetic and protect our 2nd Amendment at the same time? I'm sure we would all love to see a stronger voice right now, but how can you without seeming insensitive to the matter? Then **** would really hit the fan for us! The voice will get stronger, and you need to give it a bit of time. Things don't just happen over night, it will take some time for anything to happen.. If anything did become of this ( Like a ban ) it has to go through a COURT SYSTEM, I don't care what Feinstein is putting on the table. More than half the **** won't even make it through the court system.. And as far as Obama's "executive order" still has to be voted upon.. So calm down folks, keep supporting our rights, and our 2nd Amendment!!!! It will get better!!!!

For the win! Great post. :wavey:

JuneyBooney
12-27-2012, 00:04
This guy is an idiot. I've heard him speak a few times now and I can't believe this is the guy the NRA chooses to go in front of a camera. He's slow and doesn't have an ounce of wit. Spewing the same crap about violent video games for the last two decades ain't going to cut it.

If he's the guy that's supposed to help ease the mindset of people, then forget it. It's over before it even started.

Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.

I believe his quote was accurate. Just what do you expect him to say? Do you expect him to say "guns are bad" and that a ban would have worked? His comments were spot on and he is right in lots of gun owners minds. :faint:

stooxie
12-27-2012, 05:11
I think Wayne LaPierre did about as well as he possibly could have given the situation. I liked his speech, I think he made a ton of great points like:

-I know what headlines the media will publish, "Oh, the NRA wants more guns."
-Only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun
-Why is it that armed guards are good to product banks, sports arenas, politicians and jewelry stores but not our children?
-Hollywood always gets a free pass
-The media always gets the facts wrong when it comes to guns
-We have 700 billion dollars to bailout every industry that needs it but we can't spend $5B to put a cop at every public school.

The list goes on. All excellent points that the country needs to hear.

I believe the point about Hollywood and video games is not to ban or regulate but simply this: It's an industry that gets away totally scott free every time. America cherishes it's violence, profits off it's violence, perpetuates it's violence, and it's all from the very liberal elite that condemn the guns.

I believe he was trying to point out this outrageous hypocrisy without bluntly saying it. Wait until we get the Hollywood star benefit concerts for the shooting victims, from the same actors that have murders 1000 people on the big screen. That, as Wayne put it, is just good clean "entertainment."

This is what I have been saying to the liberals I know (unfortunately) when they start carping about guns:

"If you think banning something is the answer, fine, but recognize that the gun is the last step is a VERY long chain. If all we do is focus on the tool and do nothing to address how and why a 20 year old decides to kill school children then we have utterly failed in any attempt to resolve this."

That is how I try get people to understand that they can ban all the sheet they want but it ain't going to turn the next psycho into an honest citizen or the next gang banger into a productive member of society.

The irony is that these liberals have the least stomach for solving any problems. They want some kneejerk legislation to do the fixing for them so they can wash their hands of any responsibility or participation and walk away. Very immature and very typical.

-Stooxie
OH, and P.S., how is it that Big Pharma also gets a pass every time. Who else peddles drugs like candy that BLACK BOX SUICIDE WARNINGS RIGHT ON THE BOTTLE???? That is the state of mental health in America. Put them on antidepressants/antipsychotics and disregard them until they crack.

Hollywood and Big Pharma warchest >> NRA

Upstate Glocker
12-28-2012, 00:10
Wayne looked like the stereotypical angry white guy -- no smiling, no ability to relate to women voters. The NRA needs to learn the country is no longer run by middle aged white men. Every time we put angry white guys in front of the cameras, there are big smiles in the White House and Nancy Pelosi's office, not to mention the reporters from NBC, CNN etc who delight in pushing the negative image.

Bring in some women, some Hispanics, some black spokespeople. It may hurt LaPierre's ego, but he isn't the best way to win friends and influence people.

manonmars
12-28-2012, 01:41
As a former NRA member, I let my membership expire when I learned about the salary of Wayne La...is around $1,000,000 per year (depending upon source quoted).

.....and when I learned that the NRA was making "back room" deals with lawmakers a few years ago ....

....and when I learned that the NRA supports live canned pigeon shooting...

With folks like these raising kids, no wonder.......

pashame.com

Now I support statewide and local orgs.

norton
12-28-2012, 06:01
[QUOTE=sum-dum-guy;19779249]Ultimately, I personally believe that the decay began as we destroyed the family unit.

Of course you are right. But Joe and Jill sixpack are not going to accept the idea that they are in any way to blame for the tragedy of Sandyhook.


Personally, I would like to see an NRA spokesperson turn the tables on members of the media, by changing the conversation from guns to the medias role in these situations.
Maybe its time for some restrictions on the 1st amendment?
That ought to make Joe suit and Jill hot legs heads explode.

certifiedfunds
12-28-2012, 08:56
Wayne looked like the stereotypical angry white guy -- no smiling, no ability to relate to women voters.

Introducing a plan to protect children schools isn't important to women?

eccho
12-28-2012, 15:46
This guy is an idiot. I've heard him speak a few times now and I can't believe this is the guy the NRA chooses to go in front of a camera. He's slow and doesn't have an ounce of wit. Spewing the same crap about violent video games for the last two decades ain't going to cut it.

If he's the guy that's supposed to help ease the mindset of people, then forget it. It's over before it even started.

Last friday when he said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". That's just not the type of thing to say fresh off of 20 kids getting slaughtered. Unbelievable.


At least he's on our side. But I agree, the NRA could use some better speech writers.


I think they shot themselves in the foot trying to deflect blame onto violent videogames.

I love the NRA, but they should have focused more on mental health issues,