do we need mandatory training to obtain firearms?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dvrdwn72
12-23-2012, 15:10
Im sure ill get some negitive responses, but due to the fact that most people are just plain stupid without an ounce of common sense, should we require some form of real traing/testing to own firearms?? Mabye even just a simple iq test. Sorry but ive seen a lifetimes worth of stupid in the past week at the range and lgs.

bobtheelf
12-23-2012, 15:15
Will this stop people from obtaining firearms illegally? No? Then don't do it.

If anything, require that people that sell firearms cover basic safety rules at checkout.

dvrdwn72
12-23-2012, 15:20
That is definately a good idea. I know it wont stop illegal sales or crimes. Like I said, ive seen a whole lot of stupid lately. Along with down right unsafe.

HerrGlock
12-23-2012, 15:21
No .

RWBlue
12-23-2012, 15:23
I think it should be required training in the freshman year of high school. After passing the class, you should be able to buy anything you want.

If you can not pass, you can not graduate high school.

dango
12-23-2012, 15:26
It's better than most other suggested things I've seen !
I could live with that.

HollowHead
12-23-2012, 15:29
Absolutely not. Training should never be a requirement to exercise any COTUS rights. HH

NEOH212
12-23-2012, 15:30
No we don't. We already have enough laws and regulations on guns that don't do a damn thing.

We don't need anymore.

*ASH*
12-23-2012, 15:31
no.....

kiole
12-23-2012, 15:32
Do I need to take a test to refuse an illegal search, do I need to pass a test to use my freedom of speech, do I need to pass a test to practice a religion of my choice? No

K.Kiser
12-23-2012, 15:32
I took a concealed carry class a while back, and alot of gun safety and muzzle control was a lost concept... Growing up and hunting with the ol' Pops, I got reminded of forgotten gun saftey by a slap to the head and that cold dead stare that Dad's do so well..

I wish that by choice everyone grew up in the outdoors to use their firearm for actual hunting... The education is so much more pure, and they actually get to see with their own eys and hands that bullets kill things that moments before were healthy creatures... When we would skin out our game, there was no question to a young hunter than guns are real and it's not like the TV or video game...

My mom's brother was accidentally shot in the chest with a .22 long rifle when he was 17 years old, and a paralized from the chest down in a wheel chair for the rest of his life... He still shot recreationally twice a week, and hunted every year... Still used the firearm that shot him on occasion because he was a logical man and realized that human mistakes don't create evil tools...

Spiffums
12-23-2012, 15:39
Will this stop people from obtaining firearms illegally? No? Then don't do it.

If anything, require that people that sell firearms cover basic safety rules at checkout.

Every new gun I ever bought at the gun shop had a flyer of the 4 rules of gun safety.

tarpleyg
12-23-2012, 15:41
I'll tell you what...I'll sign up for mandatory testing for buying a gun if you'll concede to mandatory testing to exercise your right to free speech. Free speech (religion, et al) has killed A LOT more people over history than firearms.

itisbruno
12-23-2012, 15:43
Should you be required to pass a civics test to vote? An intelligence test to speak freely and breed?

Glock_Convert
12-23-2012, 16:01
Sure, make sure the crazies that the govt won't take off the street are proficient before they go on their rampage

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

kenpoprofessor
12-23-2012, 16:05
Should you be required to pass a civics test to vote? An intelligence test to speak freely and breed?

Yes, we should, as there is no enumerated constitutional right to do so.

For speech, yep, must have a license to practice to be in the media, much like a doctor, pharmacist, lawyer, etc., etc..

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

dvrdwn72
12-23-2012, 16:06
Should you be required to pass a civics test to vote? An intelligence test to speak freely and breed?
At times yes!:rofl:

WT
12-23-2012, 16:09
Absolutely not.

dvrdwn72
12-23-2012, 16:16
well lets see, people were stupid enough to re-elect osama cause they thought they would get free money, and lined up for hours to get it! so yeah, an iq test would be a great start.

Recalcitrant
12-23-2012, 16:16
To own a firearm and keep it at your home, perhaps not. But I'd be fine with training or testing as a requirement for concealed carry. I believe some states have this in place.

hogfish
12-23-2012, 16:17
Im sure ill get some negitive responses, but due to the fact that most people are just plain stupid without an ounce of common sense, should we require some form of real traing/testing to own firearms?? Mabye even just a simple iq test. Sorry but ive seen a lifetimes worth of stupid in the past week at the range and lgs.

Right off the bat, I most definitely would be against the IQ Test idea. You wouldn't want what would likely be mostly yankees only owning firearms. :winkie:

dvrdwn72
12-23-2012, 16:19
Right off the bat, I most definitely would be against the IQ Test idea. You wouldn't want what would likely be mostly yankees only owning firearms. :winkie::rofl: BUT, I must say I left dirty jersey 20 years ago for the free south. I do believe there is more common sense down here.:whistling:

RonS
12-23-2012, 16:19
IMHO, if you are not intelligent or responsible enough to own a firearm you aren't fit to procreate, vote or drive.

UtahIrishman
12-23-2012, 16:21
It shouldn't be mandatory but I would strongly urge everyone to do so.

dvrdwn72
12-23-2012, 16:22
Now, I must admit I firmly believe if we removed the warning labels from everything, society will eventually fix itself.:whistling:

bobtheelf
12-23-2012, 16:25
Every new gun I ever bought at the gun shop had a flyer of the 4 rules of gun safety.

If I worked in a gun shop, I would just as a matter of good practice make sure all my customers knew how to handle a gun safely. I just think it's the right thing to do.

TheExplorer
12-23-2012, 16:26
If it wasn't a constitutional right, I'd say we should, just like a driver's license. However it is, so we should not.

kenpoprofessor
12-23-2012, 16:34
To own a firearm and keep it at your home, perhaps not. But I'd be fine with training or testing as a requirement for concealed carry. I believe some states have this in place.

Mrs Brady, is that you? :wow:

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

.45Super-Man
12-23-2012, 16:45
Well, how many regulations and contingencies does it take to alter the definition of your freedom and liberty?

countrygun
12-23-2012, 16:54
It wouldn't have any effect on the crimes that catch attention and as a safety issue I don't see a major problem mandatory training would fix. My LGS doe as excellent job on that without being regulated and, again, I can't find the problem this would solve.

Simpleman71
12-23-2012, 17:18
I took a basic and advance concealed carry course. Not only does it help with weapon proficiency, they keep me updated on local and state carry laws. I also shoot uspsa and train at a local outdoor range 3 times a month. I have seen some people handling firearms at ranges that have no business in doing so. Not everyone is cut out to handle the responsibility to conceal carry a deadly weapon.

spork
12-23-2012, 17:20
Take a test or a government approved class in order to access and practice my constitutional rights?

No, absolutely not.

Bren
12-23-2012, 17:28
Im sure ill get some negitive responses, but due to the fact that most people are just plain stupid without an ounce of common sense, should we require some form of real traing/testing to own firearms?? Mabye even just a simple iq test. Sorry but ive seen a lifetimes worth of stupid in the past week at the range and lgs.

We haven't needed any since they were invented and the objections the liberals have to them are based on criminals and crazies, so I don't really see the point in a self-imposed and unnecessary regulation of our own.

As you said, people are stupid - a class isn't going to help.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 17:37
"Mandatory training.."
Do you mean that if I don't receive the training I cannot own a gun?


What part do you not understand of:

"it's my fundamental right to own a firearm, a right enumerated in and protected by the Constitution of the United States" ?














....... where the hell do these people come from, anyway???

RussP
12-23-2012, 17:45
No....

M&P15T
12-23-2012, 17:45
I'm just gonna ask one question, and not post any replies. I've already been involved in another scrum over basically this same topic, so I really am not interested in arguing anymore.

If anti-gun legislation is on the horizon, and it's something we absolutely can't avoid, is there any compromises we should consider, rather than getting absolutely crushed?

My thought is that our elected officials are getting pounded with phone calls, e-mails and letters demanding anti-gun legislation, from folks that normally don't care one way or another about gun-control, but are very upset by what happened in CT.

It's possible that if we could find a compromise that settles-down all those people that are upset over the Sandy Hook shooting, the anti-gun legislators would lose their political momentum, and therefore their ability to pass really restrictive anti-gun legislation.

Any ideas on possible compromises that would calm down all those folks that are raising cane with their elected representatives? Just to avoid any truly damaging anti-gun legislation?

A lesser of two evils so to speak?

I have this mental image of gun-control debates on the House and Senate floors, and the anti-gunners bringing in Mothers and Fathers of the children that were killed at Sandy Hook to support their anti-gun legislation.

That would be really bad.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 17:51
.
If anti-gun legislation is on the horizon, and it's something we absolutely can't avoid, is there any compromises we should consider, rather than getting absolutely crushed?
..

ANY taxation or permit requirement serves legally to re-define your 2a-protected RIGHT to keep and bear arms as a privilege.

Do you understand what that means?
A privilege is the legal opposite of a right.

An activity, such as owning firearms, cannot be both a fundamental individual right and be a privilege.
It's one or it's the other.

If the state can impose control over an activity, any control such as imposing a tax, or requiring a license or permit, then that activity is, at law, a privilege.


I have a RIGHT to own firearms.
I will not compromise that right.

RussP
12-23-2012, 17:51
I'm just gonna ask one question, and not post any replies. I've already been involved in another scrum over basically this same topic, so I really am not interested in arguing anymore.

If anti-gun legislation is on the horizon, and it's something we absolutely can't avoid, is there any compromises we should consider, rather than getting absolutely crushed?

My thought is that our elected officials are getting pounded with phone calls, e-mails and letters demanding anti-gun legislation, from folks that normally don't care one way or another about gun-control, but are very upset by what happened in CT.

It's possible that if we could find a compromise that settles-down all those people that are freaking out over the Sandy Hook shooting, the anti-gun legislators would lose their political momentum, and therefore their ability to pass really restrictive anti-gun legislation.

Any ideas on how we could slow-down looming anti-gun legislation? Any ideas on possible compromises that would calm down all those folks that are raising cane with their elected representatives? Just to avoid any truly damaging anti-gun legislation?

A lesser of two evils so to speak?M&P15T, that is way off the topic of this thread.

Let's confine that discussion to its original thread Gun show loop hole?? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1458612) also here in GNG.

Do not troll and hijack another thread on a totally different topic.

eagle359
12-23-2012, 18:01
May I offer this idea. You go through a reasonable national training course. At the end you get a "purchasing card" that allows you to make a purchase without a NICS check and it serves as a national carry permit that ALL states and CITIES must honor.

Atlas
12-23-2012, 18:05
May I offer this idea. You go through a reasonable national training course. At the end you get a "purchasing card" that allows you to make a purchase without a NICS check and it serves as a national carry permit that ALL states and CITIES must honor.

Sure, as long as completion of that training course is not a legal requirement to my purchasing or owning a firearm.

kenpoprofessor
12-23-2012, 18:06
I took a basic and advance concealed carry course. Not only does it help with weapon proficiency, they keep me updated on local and state carry laws. I also shoot uspsa and train at a local outdoor range 3 times a month. I have seen some people handling firearms at ranges that have no business in doing so. Not everyone is cut out to handle the responsibility to conceal carry a deadly weapon.

And Wayne LaPierre isn't qualified to speak on behalf of the NRA, what's your point?

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

HollowHead
12-23-2012, 18:29
I took a basic and advance concealed carry course. Not only does it help with weapon proficiency, they keep me updated on local and state carry laws.

I did the same exact thing voluntarily, as it should be. HH

itisbruno
12-23-2012, 18:32
M&P15T, that is way off the topic of this thread.

Let's confine that discussion to its original thread Gun show loop hole?? (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1458612) also here in GNG.

Do not troll and hijack another thread on a totally different topic.

You may not be much to look at, but you are good people


:supergrin:

:wavey:

el_jewapo
12-23-2012, 18:39
New rule.

To own a firearm, you must be able to hit a shiny new penny at 100 yards with this snub nose .22 revolver.

Some people may laugh at that, I say try getting a marijuana tax stamp.

ETA: That's not something I wish to see. Just saying that's the can of worms that would be opened if you had to get some kind of government mandated training. Felt the need to clarify, lest I be labeled anti gun.

Scotsman
12-23-2012, 18:41
The objection is simple...

"We just passed a bill mandating this great new training program. It's cheap, only $100 and 8 hours of time, and will make us all safer!"

Some time later...

"We've found that the costs of the class are higher than expected, so we need to up the price to $500."

Some time later...

"We've consolidated training sites and lowered the number of trained instructors in order to better standardize the regimen. Also, considering the the amount of gun deaths we still have in this country we will be upping the training time to 40 hours. Classes will now only be available in the capitol of your state and training fees have necessarily been raised to $1000."

Now, who gets to exercise their constitutional rights?

Atlas
12-23-2012, 18:43
New rule.

To own a firearm, you must be able to hit a shiny new penny at 100 yards with this snub nose .22 revolver.

Some people may laugh at that, I say try getting a marijuana tax stamp.

The objection is simple...

"We just passed a bill mandating this great new training program. It's cheap, only $100 and 8 hours of time, and will make us all safer!"

Some time later...

"We've found that the costs of the class are higher than expected, so we need to up the price to $500."

Some time later...

"We've consolidated training sites and lowered the number of trained instructors in order to better standardize the regimen. Also, considering the the amount of gun deaths we still have in this country we will be upping the training time to 40 hours. Classes will now only be available in the capitol of your state and training fees have necessarily been raised to $1000."

Now, who gets to exercise their constitutional rights?

Exactly.

RussP
12-23-2012, 18:44
The objection is simple...

"We just passed a bill mandating this great new training program. It's cheap, only $100 and 8 hours of time, and will make us all safer!"

Some time later...

"We've found that the costs of the class are higher than expected, so we need to up the price to $500."

Some time later...

"We've consolidated training sites and lowered the number of trained instructors in order to better standardize the regimen. Also, considering the the amount of gun deaths we still have in this country we will be upping the training time to 40 hours. Classes will now only be available in the capitol of your state and training fees have necessarily been raised to $1000."

Now, who gets to exercise their constitutional rights?That sounds about right...

oldman11
12-23-2012, 19:02
That really isn't going to be help to the school shootings as most of these people don't buy the guns used, they steal them. These people that steal them have absolutely no formal training on their use, but they sure know how to handle them anyway, don't they?

kiole
12-23-2012, 19:23
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

I think we've allowed enough infringement on our rights.

eagle359
12-23-2012, 19:30
Sure, as long as completion of that training course is not a legal requirement to my purchasing or owning a firearm.

Not a problem for me.

I am 62 years old. I have been through the '68 GCA forward. Every time the Feds tighten the screws just a bit more. The big court said we could have them. So why do not they STFU and stay in DC if they feel safe there.

mac66
12-24-2012, 07:00
The human race has managed to survive the introduction of the firearm 600 years ago.

A three year old can figure out how to make a gun go bang. It is not rocket science.

So, no. we don't need mandatory training.

HOWEVER... I do think firearms safety should be taught in every school. If kids grow up (even if their parents don't own guns) with an understanding of firearms safety and responsibility they won't have to learn it from violent video games/movies or irresponsible parents.

dbcooper
12-24-2012, 08:37
It seems reasonable until you consider-


Who gets to design the test?


Who gets to decide what a passing score is, would you want a D student walking around armed ?


How much will the test cost, 10 bucks, 100, 10,000?


Do the same people who administer the armed pilot program get to control this test? Is a backlog of 1 yr too long? 5yrs, 10yrs ?


It would be far to easy to make testing a venue to virtually eliminate private ownership, when has MORE government control ever been a good thing?

Bren
12-24-2012, 08:46
Am I the only one who gets tired and disgusted at all the minivan driving newbs who show up as adults with their first gun, brand new to shooting, with all the "good ideas" liberal, suburban culture is known for? They are so isolated from the shooting world, they usually don't even know they're liberals.

expatman
12-24-2012, 09:27
Im sure ill get some negitive responses, but due to the fact that most people are just plain stupid without an ounce of common sense, should we require some form of real traing/testing to own firearms?? Mabye even just a simple iq test. Sorry but ive seen a lifetimes worth of stupid in the past week at the range and lgs.

NO!

The phrase "shall not be infringed" comes to mind as a reason why.

High Altitude
12-24-2012, 10:32
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

BamaTrooper
12-24-2012, 10:43
No to purchase and own, but somehow, the idea of training/safety education classes before being issued a carry permit seems to be inoffensive.

vikingsoftpaw
12-24-2012, 11:36
In part generations firearms and safety training was done father to son, save formal instruction by those who applied to a hunting license.

We live in a world populated to the products of single mothers and their shack-ups.

Their training consists of playing with Call of Duty - Whicheverversion. They really enjoy their range time with the ACR w/ACOG.

They do know the Deagles though.

countrygun
12-24-2012, 11:47
Am I the only one who gets tired and disgusted at all the minivan driving newbs who show up as adults with their first gun, brand new to shooting, with all the "good ideas" liberal, suburban culture is known for? They are so isolated from the shooting world, they usually don't even know they're liberals.


Wait, what...I'm not the only one who's tired of it????


Hallelujah!

kenpoprofessor
12-24-2012, 11:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=igerQd0dpHY

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Magnus2131
12-24-2012, 11:53
Why do I keep seeing these threads of things we need to do to have the privilege of owning a gun?

SCHADENFREUDE
12-24-2012, 11:55
IN nYS I had to take either a hunter safety course or a basic pistol course to get my pistol permit. I was taught firearm safety by my father and grandfather.

People are by and far really dumb so it is something to think about.

Caver 60
12-24-2012, 12:46
I think it should be required training in the freshman year of high school. After passing the class, you should be able to buy anything you want.

If you can not pass, you can not graduate high school.

I've though thoughts along those lines for years. Except it should NOT be a condition for buying or possessing. And due care would have to be taken to insure it wasn't an anti-gun propaganda course. (I don't know how we could do that.)

You get several years of instruction in English classes in most schools, but that isn't a requirement to own a computer or speak your mind.

Every student should have to attend a firearms training course. I'd design a two part course. First part, a mandatory for graduation course. It would consist of safety, and the basics of different types of firearms, etc.

The second part would be optional. It would consist of hands on training, which would include actual firing, hunter safety training, etc.

Like someone else implied, we have a lot of people in our society who don't know which end of the gun to put the bullet into, or even which end the bullet comes out of. My wife had never touched a real firearm until we started dating, and that was many years ago.

I, on the other hand, grew up with guns of various types in my hand from the earliest days I can remember. Of course at that age my father was right there with me. But by age 14 or so, I had my own shotgun and could hunt squirrels with it. When I got my drivers license we would take a long gun to school in the car trunk, so we could go hunting after school without having to swing by home to pick it up.

oldman11
12-24-2012, 12:51
The federal government has been looking for years on how to get a federal registration going (1st step in gun confiscation). Those of us who have CHL already know that we are part of a state registration. We may not like it but it's one of those things that can't be helped. Now let's go to a national training course (they say to make sure we can handle a gun safely), but now you're part of a national gun registration. It sounds good on 1st thought, but when you look behind the door it does make you wonder; especially since all these shootings indicate that the shooters knew quite well how to shoot. One last thing, the mass shooters usually steal the guns, or black market, not buy them legally.