Are the gun manufactures doing any thing to fight this ban [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dalton Wayne
12-29-2012, 15:24
Just wondering if they have lobbyist lined up ready for this fight? it seems they have the most to lose.
If this goes through thousands of jobs are going away
has any of them voiced opinions or are they staying silent

9jeeps
12-29-2012, 15:33
Like last time I believe they are letting the Shooters do the fighting while they rake in the profits. They can always move to another place off shore.

jame
12-29-2012, 15:42
Midway USA and Dillon are both soliciting for the NRA. Ruger is active in NRA pursuits.

Yeah, I think you can make bank on that.

1-2man
12-29-2012, 15:50
I've read on here multiple times that Glock doesn't really even care about the civilian market. If that's the case, why would they, in particular, care? :dunno:

camelotkid
12-29-2012, 15:55
Wilson combat is being very vocal on Facebook, they said they had to block Sarah Brady because she kept trolling

2bgop
12-29-2012, 16:23
I can assure you the NSSF is actively engaged. Plus, many of the companies are very supportive of the ILA.

HalfHazzard
12-29-2012, 16:25
According to the anti-gun crowd, the manufacturers pay for the NRA.

I imagine they're giving some funding to the NRA.


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dango
12-29-2012, 16:39
Yes they are ! Working over time to get as many out there as possible before any potential ban is proposed that might affect us all !

lunarspeak
12-29-2012, 16:43
with over 4 million members paying dues ....the NRA shouldnt need money from the gun manufactures

2bgop
12-29-2012, 16:51
with over 4 million members paying dues ....the NRA shouldnt need money from the gun manufactures

You NEVER have enough money when fighting political fights.

chief63
12-29-2012, 16:58
Probably thinking about all the low cap mags they will sell.

shotgunred
12-29-2012, 17:06
Some are some aren't. Some are for sale. If anyone remembers last time some of them sold us down the river as fast as they could. You would have to check with the one's your interested in.

NorthernAlpine
12-29-2012, 17:06
There are shadowy figures of distinguished manufacturers and special interests groups that will be making plays that you or I will never know about. These men will make high-end lobbyists look like amateurs, and will most likely steady the hand of the anti-2nd'ers.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID43411/images/tyfsmodsquad.jpeg

Rabbi
12-29-2012, 17:23
When this issue comes up, as it often does in some form, it needs to be understood, the gun industry is a very small industry. In most years Americans spends almost as much money on golf balls as they do guns...and that includes military and police sales. If the entire industry went away tomorrow, the economy wouldnt notice it much. To be blunt, it is, from a math and economic standpoint a pretty insignificant industry full of very small companies. Even if the handful of bigger gun companies are not very large.

The gun makers are to small to have much power. It is a nothing industry. Your average gun company that is doing well has about as much economic impact as a guy who owns a successful HVAC company. The handful of large gun companies are about like a guy who owns all the car dealerships in town. Again, it is a nothing industry. No money, no size, no power.

The good news is, GUN OWNERS have mega power. This really is a case of the state of the industry being very weak and the consumers having all the power.

Rabbi
12-29-2012, 17:30
Like last time I believe they are letting the Shooters do the fighting while they rake in the profits. They can always move to another place off shore.

The NRA's anual budget is about 220 million.

The entire gun sales in the US, including military and police sales was around 1 billion until Obama, it may be 2 or 3 billion now.

Anyways, the point is, if you took all the net profits from gun makers, ALL OF IT, it would probable be around the annual budget of the NRA. There are no significant profits to rake in.

Take you favorite cottage AR company. Larue, Rock River, whatever, what do you think these companies make? Most of them are very small companies with a few employees. Lets say one of them makes 10 million gross with a 20% margin (real generous)

So the owner makes 2 million a year (and how many of these companies are there? a dozen and most wont make that)

So you have a handful of people who make a surgeons lifestyle. (we are not talking private jet money here) That is hardly enough to "change the world." with.

I am, again, trying to get accross a point to people that there is not a lot of money or power in the gun industry.

Naelbis
12-29-2012, 17:42
When this issue comes up, as it often does in some form, it needs to be understood, the gun industry is a very small industry. In most years Americans spends almost as much money on golf balls as they do guns...and that includes military and police sales. If the entire industry went away tomorrow, the economy wouldnt notice it much. To be blunt, it is, from a math and economic standpoint a pretty insignificant industry full of very small companies. Even if the handful of bigger gun companies are not very large.

The gun makers are to small to have much power. It is a nothing industry. Your average gun company that is doing well has about as much economic impact as a guy who owns a successful HVAC company. The handful of large gun companies are about like a guy who owns all the car dealerships in town. Again, it is a nothing industry. No money, no size, no power.

The good news is, GUN OWNERS have mega power. This really is a case of the state of the industry being very weak and the consumers having all the power.
I would hardly equate a 11 billion dollar a year industry with a small scale HVAC or car dealer. They may not be massive on a scale like GE, but they still have some power.

NorthernAlpine
12-29-2012, 17:46
Over 3,000,000 firearms sold in 2011, even at $300 each that's $3 billion +

It may not be quite as much as the porn industry or video games, but it fuels several other industries.

BEER
12-29-2012, 17:46
When this issue comes up, as it often does in some form, it needs to be understood, the gun industry is a very small industry. In most years Americans spends almost as much money on golf balls as they do guns...and that includes military and police sales. If the entire industry went away tomorrow, the economy wouldnt notice it much. To be blunt, it is, from a math and economic standpoint a pretty insignificant industry full of very small companies. Even if the handful of bigger gun companies are not very large.

The gun makers are to small to have much power. It is a nothing industry. Your average gun company that is doing well has about as much economic impact as a guy who owns a successful HVAC company. The handful of large gun companies are about like a guy who owns all the car dealerships in town. Again, it is a nothing industry. No money, no size, no power.

The good news is, GUN OWNERS have mega power. This really is a case of the state of the industry being very weak and the consumers having all the power.


you're always touting "math this" and "math that". if "math" is so important and all encompassing then why would a man as educated as you choose law enforcement as a career field? you either have a death wish or you don't believe in "math" half as much as you claim.

understand that i am biased, my father was shot and killed in the line of duty a week before i was born so i think any leo with family is an ******* from the get go.

which do you love more, your duty, or your family? because if you start a family (which i believe you've stated you're trying to start) then you should quit the leo field and not make them worry every night.

as a police officer your very job is to seek out and interject yourself in the situations that are most likely to get you harmed or killed.

you and i have argued over your beliefs before about the difference between believing in science and having faith so that's a given, but this is a much more personal level and i just don't get it.

where does your faith lie? in "math", in "faith", or in 'statistics"?

what is the deciding factor that makes it ok to pick law enforcement as a career choice?

NorthernAlpine
12-29-2012, 17:48
eh....less trash talk, more topic

Rabbi
12-29-2012, 17:51
I would hardly equate a 11 billion dollar a year industry with a small scale HVAC or car dealer. They may not be massive on a scale like GE, but they still have some power.

It doesnt matter how you equate it, your average cottage gun company, and most of them fall into that category, is probably pretty similar in size/income to an HVAC company with several vans.

Kingarthurhk
12-29-2012, 17:52
Who knows? Smith and Wesson wussed out and made those horrible keylocks. They seem like they are a locked cylinder waiting to happen at an inoportune time.

1-2man
12-29-2012, 17:53
The train came off the tracks on this one... :shocked:

BEER
12-29-2012, 17:54
Who knows? Smith and Wesson wussed out and made those horrible keylocks. They seem like they are a locked cylinder waiting to happen at an inoportune time.


i beg you, please give me 3 seperate examples of that ever happening. provide credible proof and links if possible.

CourtCop
12-29-2012, 17:55
with over 4 million members paying dues ....the NRA shouldnt need money from the gun manufactures

With an estimated 80-100 million gun owners in the US there should be many more NRA members. We should be encouraging every gun owner we know to join. I know the NRA isn't perfect and some feel they have compromised too easily in the past, but they are really the only chance we have.

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Rabbi
12-29-2012, 17:57
I would hardly equate a 11 billion dollar a year industry with a small scale HVAC or car dealer. They may not be massive on a scale like GE, but they still have some power.

BTW, (I dont know where you get the 11 billion number, but lets go with it)

Nike made that much last year. That one company, in the middle of the Fortune 500, made that much money...Nike, made as much money, as the ENTIRE gun industry, all sales.

RGbiker
12-29-2012, 18:01
The gun makers are to small to have much power. It is a nothing industry. Your average gun company that is doing well has about as much economic impact as a guy who owns a successful HVAC company. The handful of large gun companies are about like a guy who owns all the car dealerships in town. Again, it is a nothing industry. No money, no size, no power.

That certainly is good news for the tens of thousands of hard workers at Colt, S&W, Ruger, Springfield Armory, Kahr, Glock and Taurus.

/sarcasm.

Rabbi
12-29-2012, 18:02
you're always touting "math this" and "math that". if "math" is so important and all encompassing then why would a man as educated as you choose law enforcement as a career field? you either have a death wish or you don't believe in "math" half as much as you claim.

understand that i am biased, my father was shot and killed in the line of duty a week before i was born so i think any leo with family is an ******* from the get go.

which do you love more, your duty, or your family? because if you start a family (which i believe you've stated you're trying to start) then you should quit the leo field and not make them worry every night.

as a police officer your very job is to seek out and interject yourself in the situations that are most likely to get you harmed or killed.

you and i have argued over your beliefs before about the difference between believing in science and having faith so that's a given, but this is a much more personal level and i just don't get it.

where does your faith lie? in "math", in "faith", or in 'statistics"?

what is the deciding factor that makes it ok to pick law enforcement as a career choice?

Utterly non sequitur.

No matter what emotional choices people make, it doesnt change the math. And what the hell does the simple, factual math of how much revenue the gun industry has have anything to do with me being a part time cop? This make no sense. I say "1+1=2" and your response is "Why do you drive a red car?" in an effort to prove something about "1+1=2".

Your question is somewhat reasonable question but again, non sequitur and an absurd tangient.

Rabbi
12-29-2012, 18:04
That certainly is good news for the tens of thousands of hard workers at Colt, S&W, Ruger, Springfield Armory, Kahr, Glock and Taurus.

/sarcasm.

Of course if something effects you, it doesnt matter what the math says. That doesnt change the math.

The issue is "What are the gun companies doing...." The answer to that must be tempered by the limitations of what the gun companies can do. To understand those limitations we must undertand the math of the state of the industry.

Naelbis
12-29-2012, 18:05
BTW, (I dont know where you get the 11 billion number, but lets go with it)

Nike made that much last year. That one company, in the middle of the Fortune 500, made that much money...Nike, made as much money, as the ENTIRE gun industry, all sales.

Google is my friend....

BEER
12-29-2012, 18:07
Utterly non sequitur.

No matter what emotional choices people make, it doesnt change the math. And what the hell does the simple, factual math of how much revenue the gun industry has have anything to do with me being a part time cop? This make no sense. I say "1+1=2" and your response is "Why do you drive a red car?" in an effort to prove something about "1+1=2".

Your question is somewhat reasonable question but again, non sequitur and an absurd tangient.

you're right, my emotions interferred. my appologies.

ray9898
12-29-2012, 18:10
I think most say' "$11b...that is huge". In reality it is not when you spread it out to all the companies. As mentioned earlier, there are plenty of companies who make more than the entire gun industry.

DanaT
12-29-2012, 20:23
you're always touting "math this" and "math that". if "math" is so important and all encompassing then why would a man as educated as you choose law enforcement as a career field? you either have a death wish or you don't believe in "math" half as much as you claim.

understand that i am biased, my father was shot and killed in the line of duty a week before i was born so i think any leo with family is an ******* from the get go.

which do you love more, your duty, or your family? because if you start a family (which i believe you've stated you're trying to start) then you should quit the leo field and not make them worry every night.

as a police officer your very job is to seek out and interject yourself in the situations that are most likely to get you harmed or killed.

you and i have argued over your beliefs before about the difference between believing in science and having faith so that's a given, but this is a much more personal level and i just don't get it.

where does your faith lie? in "math", in "faith", or in 'statistics"?

what is the deciding factor that makes it ok to pick law enforcement as a career choice?

Wow. What an interesting post.

BEER
12-29-2012, 21:57
Wow. What an interesting post.

not really, it was emotionally charged and not well thought out. it had nothing to do with the original post and therefore has no meaning or bearing on this discussion.

elsolo
12-29-2012, 22:53
Really, the most effective avenue that companies have, is to actively solicit their customer base to become NRA members and take an interest in supporting gun rights. I

It can be by giving away $25 gift cards, matching donations, offering a NRA member discount that is enough to get people to go for it, etc.

jmohme
12-30-2012, 13:22
The gun industry surely does a team of lobbyists in DC, but you aren't likely to hear about them or their actions through the media unless they do or say something that is detrimental to thier own agenda and can be used against them.

BuckyP
12-30-2012, 14:03
i beg you, please give me 3 seperate examples of that ever happening. provide credible proof and links if possible.

I know of at least three occasions where the S&W cylinder lock engaged while firing. It occurred at the indoor range my friend owns. They brought the guns out so the Gunsmith could figure out what went wrong. This was after firing several rounds, so they didn't start off with the lock engaged. Two were air weight J-Frames. After hearing of the second instance, I disabled the lock on mine. I was there for one instance, heard directly from the gunsmith on the other two. Not sure how to provide credible proof or links, so take it for what it's worth. :dunno:

cowboywannabe
12-30-2012, 14:15
with over 4 million members paying dues ....the NRA shouldnt need money from the gun manufactures

you need more $ when you have to carry the 95% of dead weight gun owners around.

Walter Bishop
12-30-2012, 14:20
While the NRA probably doesn't need money from the manufacturers to fund their lobbying campaign, the manufacturers shouldn't just sit back and let the gun owners do all the work. If a AWB went into affect it woundn't affect gun owners financially but it would put many of the manufacturers out of business so they should care. Unfortunately I think they are more concerned about upsetting their government buyers (military and police) if they oppose a new ban.

pizza_pablo
12-30-2012, 16:00
eh....less trash talk, more topic

If you don't like trash talk, you're in the wrong forum. :wavey:

wprebeck
12-30-2012, 16:50
Rabbi,

While the gun industry as a whole may be smaller, do you think that individual manufacturers such as Colt (that employ a large number of people) may be working state government, as well as their individual reps and senators, in order to forestall some of the problems we've talked about with new gun controls?

I'm a lobbyist for the FOP - very small scale. Yet, the FOP has a large role when we deal with retirement concerns at the state level, or when politicians come looking for support on crime bills. They love the FOP's support on things like that, and we aren't even a corporation that employs people.

I have no doubt that there is pressure from lobbyists who represent Colt, Remington, Glock, etc on people who can do them the most good. State governors have influence in DC, and the US Senators and Reps will likely be getting pressure, as well. Math is nice and all, but it doesn't explain everything in the world. Sorry to tell you that...but, its true. Else, you could come up with an equation that would show why Adam Lanza did what he did.

Rabbi
12-30-2012, 17:01
Rabbi,

While the gun industry as a whole may be smaller, do you think that individual manufacturers such as Colt (that employ a large number of people) may be working state government, as well as their individual reps and senators, in order to forestall some of the problems we've talked about with new gun controls?

I dont know. I am sure there is an effort but it may not be what we think it is.




Math is nice and all, but it doesn't explain everything in the world. Sorry to tell you that...but, its true. Else, you could come up with an equation that would show why Adam Lanza did what he did.

Actually math does explain everything. That is what math is. It predicts everything and explains everything. What it doesnt always do is predict "which one" it is going to be. Also, if the math isnt working it is because we dont know how to do that math yet. We are the flaw, not the math.

wprebeck
12-30-2012, 23:28
OK, so your opinion is that math can predict human behavior? And that we can't do it just yet, because no one has the correct formula?

I'm going to have to post this in a math forum somewhere for kicks and giggles.

Rabbi
12-30-2012, 23:37
OK, so your opinion is that math can predict human behavior? And that we can't do it just yet, because no one has the correct formula?

I'm going to have to post this in a math forum somewhere for kicks and giggles.

Math does predict human behavior. Even with our primitive and small data sets of all things that make up a human, it is shocking how accurate we can model human behavior.

And yes, with enough data, most anything is predictable...however, you may not know which occurrence the event will happen.

Chainlink
12-30-2012, 23:59
Chaos factor?