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DrDyno
12-30-2012, 00:59
I blame three presidents for our current crisis:

Richard Nixon
1. Took us off the gold standard – Devalued the dollar and put us on the road to financial ruin.
2. Ended the military draft – Removed the common thread between generations.

Bill Clinton
Repealed the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 – Allowing commercial banks to once again gamble like investment banks – lead directly to the financial bubble and burst of 2008.

George W. Bush
1. Recreated Vietnam in Iraq

2. Ran up $10 Trillion in debt.


W created such ill will between the haves and have-nots that the Democrats couldn’t possibly lose in 2008.

We better just get that there now exists two Americas and, the America that you and I belong to no longer has the power necessary to sustain itself. Get used to it because the RNC hasn’t a clue how to reach the current American public.

Women are 53% of the electorate. Keep telling them you want to control their bodies and cancel Planned Parenthood. Oh, and make sure to let them know you want to deprive their children of the same Sesame Street that they grew up with. Add to that the rising influence of minorities (for whom the Republicans said they would curtail any possibility of the Dream Act) and you have the perfect formula for failure.

Get used to it, folks, this is the new America. The midterm election could put the last nails in the coffin of the America we grew up in, defended and loved.

Now, to all this talk of how we are going to resist increasing restrictions on what liberties we have left; the “cold dead hands” boast or the “one bullet at a time” taunt. Have we stopped to consider exactly what we’re promoting? Have you not seen the lengths law enforcement will go to get what they want? They’ll tear our houses down and leave us homeless without any liability. Have we forgotten Waco? Have any of us not seen a current airing of any number of SWAT television shows? Have we considered what our homes will look like after we tell the officer at our door that we sold all our guns; and, he has the martial law authority or signed warrant to search our premises? There’ll be nothing left standing.

To take an even further step, at what point do we actually pull a trigger? When do we make the decision to shoot the uniformed officer or armed soldier walking up our driveway? The instant a trigger is pulled, our life is over and our family is in ruins.

So, for all our disappointment and for all our macho blustering, it’s time to get a grip! America is sinking into socialism, no doubt about it. We as Americans, like it or not, will have little choice but to fall in step and work through legal means to attempt renewal. Personally, I hate that part! But, if we want our families to enjoy any kind of life at all, we have no choice. Sure we’re frustrated and angry. But… we need to keep our wits about us so we don’t end up frustrated and angry and ruined, as well.

Rabbi
12-30-2012, 01:14
And just were are we?

We live in the third largest (population) country in the world and we have eliminated poverty. There are people with *less* but functionally there is no poverty in this country. We enjoy the best and most advanced medicind the world has ever known and no where have so many enjoyed so much and continue to have the chance to do so.

Sure, things are a little rought right now, but it was at a 10 and now is a 9....most of humans, in most of history have lived at about a 3.

Could we do better, of course. Are there some things that suck, of course. Do I get mad as hell from time to time, of course. Could it all get bad? You bet....but it is almost as good as it has been, anywhere, ever.

CLoft239
12-30-2012, 01:27
Lol @ you assuming local LE would actually confiscate citizen's legally purchased/owned (pre-ban) firearms.

Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself. This one won't. If that day ever comes, I suppose I'll become unemployed.

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".

Berto
12-30-2012, 01:35
I don't know where I am going, but I sure know where I've been.

sum-dum-guy
12-30-2012, 01:53
What path do you advocate?

For instance, should the GOP (or the Dems) stand firm on principle or seek a compromise? Do they stick with the no increased taxes for anyone or do they cave in?

Do they stand firm that nobody's right to bear arms should be infringed or should they compromise to prevent something worse like the new AWB?

I honestly don't know anymore.

Bruce M
12-30-2012, 04:56
I want to live someplace where there is no government interference in my life; where I can do about anything I want with no fear of the government. Because places like that sound like Nirvana. Of course they tend to look like Kohistan or Somalia...


Things are noit perfect here, but we are still the last, best hope.

Restless28
12-30-2012, 07:24
Rabbi and BruceM are correct.

Dennis in MA
12-30-2012, 07:28
Nixon. Lol

I'll say this: Nixon ruined our country with paranoia, not draft and Gold Standard.

We all did it. And until we take responsibility, nothing will change. Stop waiting for the other guy.

RonS
12-30-2012, 07:53
Yeah, it is still a great country, but France was a great country once too. I am coming more and more to believe that no democracy or republic of any size can long endure. Perhaps a small nation with a non diverse population can do it, but 310 million people with no common language, no common values and no sense of common identity cannot be ruled by anything other than tyrany.

DrDyno
12-30-2012, 08:00
Lol @ you assuming local LE would actually confiscate citizen's legally purchased/owned (pre-ban) firearms.

Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself. This one won't. If that day ever comes, I suppose I'll become unemployed.

Sent from the Titanic. I named my phone "The Titanic" so when I plug it into the computer it says "The Titanic is syncing".


CLoft, you may want to take a look at the weapons confiscation that folks like you and me have already experienced:
NRA Gun Confiscation After Katrina - YouTube

devildog2067
12-30-2012, 08:05
Richard Nixon
1. Took us off the gold standard – Devalued the dollar and put us on the road to financial ruin.

Ending the gold standard was one of the best things, economically, that any President has ever done.

2. Ended the military draft – Removed the common thread between generations.

Our all-volunteer military is smaller, better trained, better led, and more effective than a draft army would be.

czsmithGT
12-30-2012, 08:23
I blame three presidents for our current crisis:

Richard Nixon
1. Took us off the gold standard – Devalued the dollar and put us on the road to financial ruin.

No country currently uses the gold standard as the basis of its monetary system

2. Ended the military draft – Removed the common thread between generations.

There was no draft between 1920 and 1940 either. [


Bill Clinton
Repealed the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 – Allowing commercial banks to once again gamble like investment banks – lead directly to the financial bubble and burst of 2008.

Repeal of Glass Steagall through the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act of 1999 did not cause the sub-prime crisis. The activities linked to the financial crisis were not prohibited (or, in most cases, even regulated) by the Glass–Steagall Act: https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/jbl/articles/volume12/issue4/Markham12U.Pa.J.Bus.L.1081(2010).pdf

George W. Bush
1. Recreated Vietnam in Iraq
2. Ran up $10 Trillion in debt.

W created such ill will between the haves and have-nots that the Democrats couldn’t possibly lose in 2008.

Bush screwed up a lot. But the "D"s would have lost if the "R"s had put up a decent candidate who ran a decent campaign.



FDR & LBJ had more to do with putting us on the road we are on today than any of the 3 you mentioned.

vikingsoftpaw
12-30-2012, 09:34
Yeah, it is still a great country, but France was a great country once too. I am coming more and more to believe that no democracy or republic of any size can long endure. Perhaps a small nation with a non diverse population can do it, but 310 million people with no common language, no common values and no sense of common identity cannot be ruled by anything other than tyrany.

You've touched on a point here. Democracies seldom make it past 250 years.

DrDyno
12-30-2012, 09:35
...Our all-volunteer military is smaller, better trained, better led, and more effective than a draft army would be.

Let me illustrate what I mean: I was in Home Depot, yesterday, waiting on line, wearing a hat that says "US ARMY." As I'm standing there an old black gentlemen came up to me, saluted me, and said, "Welcome Home, brother." The bond between that old black gentlemen and this younger white baby boomer is as deep and intense as any bond I have with my own family.

Three days ago, sitting in a cafe, having breakfast with my wife (old Army hat perched on my head), a much older man who stooped as he walked, came to our table to introduce himself to me. He said, "I just wanted to say hi to another Army man." Turns out he's a Korean vet! My bond with that man is in concrete.

So, we may have a smaller, more well equipped and better trained military, today. And, they are bonded to every other US veteran. But, for the rest of the male population who has never served, they will never experience the common bond of brotherhood that exists between every American veteran, from every generation.

Restless28
12-30-2012, 09:37
Let me illustrate what I mean: I was in Home Depot, yesterday, waiting on line, wearing a hat that says "US ARMY." As I'm standing there an old black gentlemen came up to me, saluted me, and said, "Welcome Home, brother." The bond between that old black gentlemen and this younger white baby boomer is as deep and intense as any bond I have with my own family.

Three days ago, sitting in a cafe, having breakfast with my wife (old Army hat purchased on my head), a much older man who stooped as he walked, came to our table to introduce himself to me. He said, "I just wanted to say hi to another Army man." Turns out he's a Korean vet! My bond with that man is in concrete.

So, we may have a smaller, more well equipped and better trained military, today. And, they are bonded to every other US veteran. But, for the rest of the male population who has never served, they will never experience the common bond of brotherhood that exists between every American veteran, from every generation.

Does this mean anyone that isn't military is inferior? :tongueout::tongueout:

FLIPPER 348
12-30-2012, 09:45
Women are 53% of the electorate. Keep telling them you want to control their bodies and cancel Planned Parenthood. Oh, and make sure to let them know you want to deprive their children of the same Sesame Street that they grew up with.





Remember this if you ever want to win another Presidential Election as Ann Coulter's wet dream of women not being able to vote will never happen.

Dennis in MA
12-30-2012, 09:47
I get the same thing. I wear a hat all the time that says "Richard" on it.

At least once a day, some guy walks by me and says, "Hey, ********!" I reply, "Takes on to know one." Probably once every 2 weeks, this leads to a traditional wrasslin match.

Restless28
12-30-2012, 09:48
Remember this if you ever want to win another Presidential Election as Ann Coulter's wet dream of women not being able to vote will never happen.

Correct.

Rabbi
12-30-2012, 09:48
Let me illustrate what I mean: I was in Home Depot, yesterday, waiting on line, wearing a hat that says "US ARMY." As I'm standing there an old black gentlemen came up to me, saluted me, and said, "Welcome Home, brother." The bond between that old black gentlemen and this younger white baby boomer is as deep and intense as any bond I have with my own family.

Three days ago, sitting in a cafe, having breakfast with my wife (old Army hat perched on my head), a much older man who stooped as he walked, came to our table to introduce himself to me. He said, "I just wanted to say hi to another Army man." Turns out he's a Korean vet! My bond with that man is in concrete.

So, we may have a smaller, more well equipped and better trained military, today. And, they are bonded to every other US veteran. But, for the rest of the male population who has never served, they will never experience the common bond of brotherhood that exists between every American veteran, from every generation.

I know that bond as well...but isnt something a free people should mandate.

There are a lot of powerful bonds. The bond of Police, Firemans, Doctors, Freemasons, Union members, Sports players, alumi, People who have been throught tramatic events, whatever... You cant have them all.

You want to destroy some of that bond, mandate it. Not everyone needs to be in the military, any more than everyone needs to know how to weld or plant roses.

The "everyone should serve" crowd is doing the exact same things as the anti gunners. You see where the Military would make some people better (it probably would) so in your mind, everyone should do it. Just like the anti-gunners. They see where a few have screwed it up and think everyone should not have guns. Do you really want that world?

Restless28
12-30-2012, 09:49
Rabbi is wise.

DrDyno
12-30-2012, 09:53
Does this mean anyone that isn't military is inferior? :tongueout::tongueout:

Rereading my post I can see where that conclusion could be drawn. But, that's not where I'm coming from. I am not arguing a distinction between superior & inferior. I am arguing for relationship between generations. My point is that the draft created an indelible bond between all who had to register and more so between all who served. Every American male faced a common requirement. Look at the current generation. Feel any particular bond with them?

railfancwb
12-30-2012, 10:00
Don't forget Woodrow Wilson. He gave us the Federal Reserve and the income tax and got us into WWI after being reelected on the "he kept us out of the war" slogan.

Lincoln deserves some credit also, for wonton disregard of the Constitution.

FDR took us off the gold standard at the citizen level, confiscated citizens' gold, and then did a massive devaluation...much greater than Nixon's percentage wise.


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Rabbi
12-30-2012, 10:01
Rereading my post I can see where that conclusion could be drawn. But, that's not where I'm coming from. I am not arguing a distinction between superior & inferior. I am arguing for relationship between generations. My point is that the draft created an indelible bond between all who had to register and more so between all who served. Every American male faced a common requirement. Look at the current generation. Feel any particular bond with them?

I think you are romanticizing something that doesnt exist at the level you think it does.

Do you really feel that bond with John Kerry, Wesley Clark or Oliver Stone? I(to give you a broad cross section)

No, if you really dont. You share something in common but not much of a bond. You would have a much more powerful bond with someone you liked who was into the same sports team as you than one of those people.

I can claim I have a powerful and meaningful "bond" with everyone who has ever served but what it really is a talking point and perhaps a wink and a nod. You didnt like everyone you served with and that "bond" cant overcome that. You also wouldnt care for some of the people you didnt serve with. No matter how old.

Again, a shared experience doesnt make for a bond but it can lead to one....and if you mandate that experience, you will have a "bond" with even less of them.

Restless28
12-30-2012, 10:01
Rereading my post I can see where that conclusion could be drawn. But, that's not where I'm coming from. I am not arguing a distinction between superior & inferior. I am arguing for relationship between generations. My point is that the draft created an indelible bond between all who had to register and more so between all who served. Every American male faced a common requirement. Look at the current generation. Feel any particular bond with them?

Yes. We are both Americans, and in most cases, kind and empathic to each other.

DrDyno
12-30-2012, 10:05
The "everyone should serve" crowd is doing the exact same things as the anti gunners. You see where the Military would make some people better (it probably would) so in your mind, everyone should do it. Just like the anti-gunners. They see where a few have screwed it up and think everyone should not have guns. Do you really want that world?

Rebbe,
I did not say, nor do I believe "everyone should do it;" and, I take offense to your intimation that my position is "just like the anti-gunners." That's absurd in the extreme. I do, however, believe that every citizen of this country (male & female) should serve the country in some capacity for a minimum of two years, just as is done in Israel. Rebbe, have you been to Israel? I've been to Israel and can tell you that the mandatory service of all citizens is one of the strongest polymers that binds them as a nation.

unit1069
12-30-2012, 10:05
Let me illustrate what I mean: I was in Home Depot, yesterday, waiting on line, wearing a hat that says "US ARMY." As I'm standing there an old black gentlemen came up to me, saluted me, and said, "Welcome Home, brother." The bond between that old black gentlemen and this younger white baby boomer is as deep and intense as any bond I have with my own family.

Three days ago, sitting in a cafe, having breakfast with my wife (old Army hat perched on my head), a much older man who stooped as he walked, came to our table to introduce himself to me. He said, "I just wanted to say hi to another Army man." Turns out he's a Korean vet! My bond with that man is in concrete.

So, we may have a smaller, more well equipped and better trained military, today. And, they are bonded to every other US veteran. But, for the rest of the male population who has never served, they will never experience the common bond of brotherhood that exists between every American veteran, from every generation.

Oh, like John Kerry, who declared American soldiers mass murderers and threw someone else's medals over the White House fence, pretending those were his medals?

Rabbi
12-30-2012, 10:06
Look at the current generation. Feel any particular bond with them?

BTW, this is a double edged sword.

Not feeling a bond with some people can make you not care much for them...but who is to say feeling a bond with people will be the bond YOU want it to be?

There are a LOT of people who feel a bond with "everyone"...and it makes those people (we all know the type) vote dollars out of your pocket to help everyone with every cause there is. This is how liberals keep getting elected.

Restless28
12-30-2012, 10:07
Rebbe,
I did not say, nor do I believe "everyone should do it;" and, I take offense to your intimation that my position is "just like the anti-gunners." That's absurd in the extreme. I do, however, believe that every citizen of this country (male & female) should serve the country in some capacity for a minimum of two years, just as is done in Israel. Rebbe, have you been to Israel? I've been to Israel and can tell you that the mandatory service of all citizens is one of the strongest polymers that binds them as a nation.

This is absurd. :faint:

Rabbi
12-30-2012, 10:12
Rebbe,
I did not say, nor do I believe "everyone should do it;" and, I take offense to your intimation that my position is "just like the anti-gunners." That's absurd in the extreme. I do, however, believe that every citizen of this country (male & female) should serve the country in some capacity for a minimum of two years, just as is done in Israel. Rebbe, have you been to Israel? I've been to Israel and can tell you that the mandatory service of all citizens is one of the strongest polymers that binds them as a nation.

My wife is Israeli and I have a daughter from another marriage who lives in Israel, I know Israel rather well....and the military thing isnt what you think it is in many respects. That isnt what binds the Israeli people, it is one part of what binds the Jewish people in Israel (who are not some monolithic group). Hell, many people in Israel DONT serve. There are a lot of ways out of it. Ask the secular how they feel about all the religious who dont serve.

And again, people are either free or they are not. Bill Gates never served in any way...but he makes the country run a lot more than a guy who did 4 years and got out.

And while you are not making an anti gunner argument, you are indeed using the same tactic. It doesnt matter if that offends you or not, it is still true.

frank4570
12-30-2012, 10:18
Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself. This one won't. If that day ever comes, I suppose I'll become unemployed.


Yeah. They will just fire you and anybody else who refuses to follow orders. Then replace you with somebody who will do what they are told.
It won't actually slow anything down.

czsmithGT
12-30-2012, 11:25
I do, however, believe that every citizen of this country (male & female) should serve the country in some capacity for a minimum of two years, just as is done in Israel.

I think unless they want a military career or a couple years duty they should serve the country by getting a meaningful education, getting a job, paying taxes and voting for politicians who want to serve instead of dictate.

DrDyno
12-30-2012, 11:36
Oh, like John Kerry, who declared American soldiers mass murderers and threw someone else's medals over the White House fence, pretending those were his medals?


Good one! Can't argue that... Jane Fonda's compatriot!!:steamed:

devildog2067
12-30-2012, 12:04
I do, however, believe that every citizen of this country (male & female) should serve the country in some capacity for a minimum of two years

Doing what?

Why?

Who will pay for it?

If there were a huge demand for untrained 18-year-old labor, the market would take care of it. There is not.

I've been to Israel and can tell you that the mandatory service of all citizens is one of the strongest polymers that binds them as a nation.

As Rabbi pointed out, this is only a half-truth.

DrDyno
12-30-2012, 12:23
Doing what?

Why?

Who will pay for it?

If there were a huge demand for untrained 18-year-old labor, the market would take care of it. There is not.

As Rabbi pointed out, this is only a half-truth.

Here's the answer to your first question:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/us/politics/28projects.html?_r=0

Relative to Rabbi's insight concerning Israel, he's right in that only a little over 50% are actually serving in their armed forces today. However, that beats America's current stats by some 48%! And, when you live in a war zone, EVERYBODY is engaged at one point or another.

devildog2067
12-30-2012, 12:36
Here's the answer to your first question:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/us/politics/28projects.html?_r=0


You want untrained 18-year-old chain gangs to rebuild our national infrastructure? I'd prefer to let professional engineers and construction workers do it. The prolific application of cheap conscripted labor will not solve that problem.

Jaydeedubya
12-30-2012, 13:32
Secede NOW! That's the answer. The solution. The founding fathers seceded from England for similar reasons. We are now, where they were then. It's time. High time. The swollen federal hierarchy has nearly destroyed this nation. Our only hope is to secede and start again. Yes, we can.

I'm from Texas and I approve this message.


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