Why hasn't interest in muzzleloaders increased? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Why hasn't interest in muzzleloaders increased?


Pawcatch@aol.co
12-30-2012, 19:20
The title says it all.It seems logical that more people would be buying muzzleloaders and supplies given this current political climate,but I went to Deer Creek in Marietta and the owner said that he hasn't seen anymore people buying blackpowder lately.

You have no paper trail when buying muzzleloaders OTC,so I would assume that fact would peak interest in them.

Is it that people think they are just too much trouble?
I own over a dozen,including a matchlock and a handgonne and they were easy for me to learn the details about them.

tarpleyg
12-30-2012, 19:25
It's a good question. They're inexpensive and very easy to load nowadays. I guess the interest won't come until it's all were allowed to buy.

fusegsp
12-30-2012, 19:39
I don't know about muzzleloaders, but I think the interest in airguns is up. They actually make airguns you can kill deer with now. One of the varmint hunting magazines I was looking at the other day has a monthly column on airguns.

Pawcatch@aol.co
12-30-2012, 19:44
I don't know about muzzleloaders, but I think the interest in airguns is up. They actually make airguns you can kill deer with now. One of the varmint hunting magazines I was looking at the other day has a monthly column on airguns.

Yes,brands of powerful airguns like Quackenbush have been around a long time,but you still don't get anywhere need the power and energy that you would from a blackpowder firearm of similar caliber.

G36's Rule
12-30-2012, 19:45
Lets see, they are a slow to load, inaccurate, pain in the ass to clean, horrible ballistics, stink to hell and back, rust magnets and there are much better arms available...

Other than that, I get what you are selling...

:upeyes:

norton
12-30-2012, 19:51
Lets see, they are a slow to load, inaccurate, pain in the ass to clean, horrible ballistics, stink to hell and back, rust magnets and there are much better arms available...

Other than that, I get what you are selling...

:upeyes:

Maybe some of the other things you mentioned, but inaccurate?
No.

norton
12-30-2012, 19:52
I don't know about muzzleloaders, but I think the interest in airguns is up. They actually make airguns you can kill deer with now. One of the varmint hunting magazines I was looking at the other day has a monthly column on airguns.

BTW, the big head himself (Eric) has a thread running about his big bore Sam Yang airgun.

HexHead
12-30-2012, 19:56
There's a lot to be said for a .53 caliber 1oz Minie ball.

Pawcatch@aol.co
12-30-2012, 19:56
Lets see, they are a slow to load, inaccurate, pain in the ass to clean, horrible ballistics, stink to hell and back, rust magnets and there are much better arms available...

Other than that, I get what you are selling...

:upeyes:

Yes,I give that to you that they are slow to load,but hard to clean?
Unless you go a long time in between cleanings,they are actually quite simple to clean.
I boil two bowls of hot water and use a little liquid soup and that's it.I can clean any of my muzzleloaders after I use real blackpowder in less than a hour.

Inaccurate?
When using conicals,I can easily get two inch groups at 75 yards with my Lyman Trade Rifle.
BTW,I'm not a great shot,many can get much tighter groups than me.

Rust?Not if taken care of.

G36's Rule
12-30-2012, 20:07
C'mon folks, get real. Compared to any semi modern equipment muzzle loaders are archaic.

2" at 75 yards would be a good reason to sell a AR or bolt gun. And I don't have to boil anything to clean my guns.

I've messed with BP firearms for this the last 30 years off and on, and I've really learned to hate them.

Kevin108
12-30-2012, 20:26
They are an inferior firearm. We can get the best semi-automatic firearms ever right now and often quite affordably.

With all the laws about driving, regulations on automobiles, taxes and fees associated with ownership and the requirement to buy insurance, why aren't more people interested in horses and buggies?

Fox
12-30-2012, 20:30
They're adequate for hunting and pest control, which allows one to conserve a finite supply of modern cartridge ammunition for gunfighting.

That one can knap their own flints, cast their own ball, and produce their own blackpowder, it means that traditional muzzle loading firearms are sustainable when one can't purchase modern arms and ammunition.

Pawcatch@aol.co
12-30-2012, 20:37
They're adequate for hunting and pest control, which allows one to conserve a finite supply of modern cartridge ammunition for gunfighting.

That one can knap their own flints, cast their own ball, and produce their own blackpowder, it means that traditional muzzle loading firearms are sustainable when one can't purchase modern arms and ammunition.

Exactly,I actually prefer to make my own matchcord for my English style matchlock from MVT.
Also,people forget that front stuffers help win the west as much,if not more than weapons like the 1873 Winchester and Single Action Army.
The U.S. government sold thousands,upon thousands of surplus Springfields and Enfield muzzle loaders for just a few bucks a piece.They served homesteaders well.

Walter Bishop
12-30-2012, 20:38
Even in the absolute worst case scenario, there would only be new restrictions on semi-auto rifles. Bolt actions, lever actions, single shot and pumps would be unaffected so why would we have to revert to muzzle loaders?

Pawcatch@aol.co
12-30-2012, 20:41
Even in the absolute worst case scenario, there would only be new restrictions on semi-auto rifles. Bolt actions, lever actions, single shot and pumps would be unaffected so why would we have to revert to muzzle loaders?

We don't have to fill out the 4473 with them,as we do modern firearms.

arizona_andy
12-30-2012, 20:42
Well, I have a feeling that most of the people who own AR-15s are not going to be trading them in for a Brown Bess, regardless of what laws may or may not be passed.

I don't own any antique arms, but I do find them quite interesting. Someday I'd love to pick up a musket or two, but about the only thing I'd use them for would be a little fun with some watermelons.

method
12-30-2012, 20:48
2" at 75 yards would be a good reason to sell a AR or bolt gun. And I don't have to boil anything to clean my guns.



I'm assuming that those 2" groups are shot using open sights. I'd wager most people couldn't manage 2" with their AR or bolt gun with open sights. You don't have to boil anything to clean a muzzleloader either. I keep a zip lock bag full of cleaning patches soaked in soapy water in my possibles bag. Run a couple wet ones through the bore with the ram rod, run a couple dry ones, run an oily one. Wipe down the exterior with oily patch. Cleaned. Closer to one minute than to one hour.

That said I'm not sure why there'd be any rush on muzzleloading guns. They'll always be available.

Walter Bishop
12-30-2012, 20:51
No 4473 required when buying any gun used from another individual. But lets just assume your doomsday scenario where things are so bad that the government is going door to door to seize guns using 4473s to identify gun owners, don't ya think they would probably have also changed the law to require a 4473 for muzzle loaders as well.

Pawcatch@aol.co
12-30-2012, 20:53
I'm assuming that those 2" groups are shot using open sights. I'd wager most people couldn't manage 2" with their AR or bolt gun with open sights. You don't have to boil anything to clean a muzzleloader either. I keep a zip lock bag full of cleaning patches soaked in soapy water in my possibles bag. Run a couple wet ones through the bore with the ram rod, run a couple dry ones, run an oily one. Wipe down the exterior with oily patch. Cleaned. Closer to one minute than to one hour.

That said I'm not sure why there'd be any rush on muzzleloading guns. They'll always be available.

Thank you Method,I use hot water because I find it dries quicker,making cleaning much easier.
I was talking about also taking the nipple off and giving the firing channel a good cleaning too when taking a hour,but I could do it much faster if I wanted to.

fusegsp
12-30-2012, 20:57
Thank you Method,I use hot water because I find it dries quicker,making cleaning much easier.
I was talking about also taking the nipple off and giving the firing channel a good cleaning too when taking a hour,but I could do it much faster if I wanted to.Nipples are involved? Ok, I'm in.

stevelyn
12-30-2012, 21:30
I can see bp guns and supplies being useful for survival and hunting, but they're not much help if going up against an enemy that is armed with modern weapons.

The defenders of the Alamo were at a disadvantage against the Mexicans even though both were armed with single-shot bp rifles and muskets, the Alamo defenders didn't have guns that could take bayonets.

Bayonets for the most part are irrelevant today, but capacity, sustained rate-of-fire and ease of reloading to maintain parity of force with our enemies are relevant.

stevelyn
12-30-2012, 21:53
Even in the absolute worst case scenario, there would only be new restrictions on semi-auto rifles. Bolt actions, lever actions, single shot and pumps would be unaffected so why would we have to revert to muzzle loaders?

Do you really think they are going to stop with semi-auto rifles? :upeyes:

In the event they are successful, they will be emboldened to for try for their goal (complete disarmament) and implement a full-court press to ban the rest. If they set the precedent to ban one type of firearm based on method of operation then there's nothing to stop them from banning the rest. Essentially going backwards in technology as to what you are ALLOWED to own. In that case, you may only have bp guns at your disposal and single shot at that. No breech loaders no bp revolvers.

Do you want to live in that world? I sure as hell don't. I'll live as a free man or I'll die as one. No negotiation. No compromise. Molon Labe. :steamed:

M2 Carbine
12-30-2012, 21:59
Is it that people think they are just too much trouble?
Yes.
At best ML is a pain in the ass, fun but still a PITA.
So much so I can't remember the last time I shot mine.

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Howdah.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Hawkin2.jpg

ithaca_deerslayer
12-30-2012, 22:01
I have a muzzleloader because NY has a special deer season for them when it is 10F and a foot of snow on the ground.

But other than that, and just a general appreciation of guns and history, an AR is a much better gun :)

Probably someday we'll be only left with muzzleloaders, at least in NY.

HerrGlock
12-31-2012, 01:26
I've got an 1858 Remington revolver. It is probably the most accurate handgun I own. Can't remember the last time I shot it:

They stink! Even pyrodex sticks to your clothing and you have to change to go anywhere after the range.
Find an indoor range that allows black powder shooting at all.
I can keep all the small arms ammo I want but fire code says 5 pounds black powder max.

I really like my cap and ball revolver but I cannot shoot it anywhere around here and if I find an outdoor range, that's all I'll be doing that day unless I can can go take a shower before I go anywhere else.

That might have some help with a couple reasons why more people aren't into it.

stevelyn
12-31-2012, 01:43
M2, is that a howda (sp?) pistol?

I have a .54 Lyman GPR with a 1:60 twist that I shoot PRBs out of using pillow ticking for patches. It's mainly for moose within designated BP hunting areas around Fairbanks.

Due to my grid coordinates I've only shot Triple 7 out of it. If you don't like the smell or grime of blackpowder or Pyrodex, then Triple 7 is your propllent. It has higher energy than bp or Pyrodex requiring a smaller charge to get the same velocity you'd achieve with bp or Pyrodex and it leaves little residue behind that is similar to smokeless and can be cleared with one patch on a jag.

The smell is neutral. Kinda similar to what the smoke generators that firefighters use for practice. Both are made from sugar or sugar components. I've lit the stuff off in my house and other than for not being able to see anything for a few minutes there is no odor or irritation from being in it.

Pawcatch@aol.co
12-31-2012, 01:49
M2, is that a howda (sp?) pistol?

I have a .54 Lyman GPR with a 1:60 twist that I shoot PRBs out of using pillow ticking for patches. It's mainly for moose within designated BP hunting areas around Fairbanks.

Due to my grid coordinates I've only shot Triple 7 out of it. If you don't like the smell or grime of blackpowder or Pyrodex, then Triple 7 is your propllent. It has higher energy than bp or Pyrodex requiring a smaller charge to get the same velocity you'd achieve with bp or Pyrodex and it leaves little residue behind that is similar to smokeless and can be cleared with one patch on a jag.

The smell is neutral. Kinda similar to what the smoke generators that firefighters use for practice. Both are made from sugar or sugar components. I've lit the stuff off in my house and other than for not being able to see anything for a few minutes there is no odor or irritation from being in it.

I've only ever used Goex black powder.
Have you had many misfires using triple 7?
What is the ignition temp?
I've thought about trying it,but I like to stay traditional.

stevelyn
12-31-2012, 02:05
I've only ever used Goex black powder.
Have you had many misfires using triple 7?
What is the ignition temp?
I've thought about trying it,but I like to stay traditional.

I used to have a few misfires during shooting sessions when I first got it. After I swtiched to a Redd Hot nipple and CCI magnum caps I haven't had any misfires since 2004.

I've had it out at 10* F and it still lights off.

Peace Warrior
12-31-2012, 02:34
Lets see they are... inaccurate, [have] horrible ballistics...
Some of the round-ball, muzzle load revolvers may qualify as inaccurate with not so good ballistics at a distance of 10 yards or more, but you haven't fired a modern muzzle load rifle lately.

With a rifle, you can paste the ten ring out to where your vision fails. I've never done it, but I'd bet $100 to a nickel that a scope on a muzzle loader with the proper load for the distance would increase the range out to 100, 150 yards with today's parabolic rounds and manufactured loads.

Not enough powder is where most muzzle load shooters lose accuracy at a distance.

NEOH212
12-31-2012, 03:18
Because breach loaders are much more efficient and faster to reload!

:supergrin:

RonS
12-31-2012, 05:48
I think most people have too much common sense to think that they are going to defend themselves with a muzzle loader. By the time we get to that point self defense will be criminalized.

OrangePwr9
12-31-2012, 05:56
It has:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=691143

The Fed
12-31-2012, 05:57
I was just thinking about this a couple of days ago. If Biden gets his way they could be the only legal guns you can carry. We will harken back to the days of pirates and swashbuckles where you carried 2 or 3 in your belt for self-defense. I can see it now -a cottage industry springs up making 4-shot black powder handguns. Of course, the bad guys will still have their Glocks.

Fox
12-31-2012, 06:07
I think most people have too much common sense to think that they are going to defend themselves with a muzzle loader. By the time we get to that point self defense will be criminalized.

You miss the point completely. The muzzle loading firearms are adequate for hunting and for pest control on the homestead. It allows one to conserve modern ammunition for real emergencies.

Yes, the Left wants to abolish self-defense. It's why the liberal media edited the call between George Zimmerman and the 911 dispatcher. They want to make the world safe for urban thug life (Democrat voting base).

Beeman
12-31-2012, 06:38
I still shoot my muzzleloaders a lot. I have a Whitworth military match rifle and Volunteer target rifle I use for deer hunting. Nothing like driving a .45 caliber 550 grain paper patch bullet through a deer. Both guns are very accurate. I use Swiss black powder for long range work since it runs me about $23.00 a pound. Graf and Sons is used for general plinking and hunting.

If the ammo situation gets really bad I could make my own black powder. I just need a way to make musket caps.

mike g35
12-31-2012, 07:02
The only muzzleloader I'm interested in is a Howdah .20ga pistol. It's a handheld stinky claymore. LOL


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

akapennypincher
12-31-2012, 07:14
Interest in Muzzleloading has increased in States that have put in Special Muzzleloading Only Hunting Seasons. Belive PA has a Special ML Season that is Flintlock, Roundball, only. NO INLINES.

But most of the Muzzleloading Manufactures, have gone to build IN LINE Muzzleloader, verses Traditional Muzzleloader. Because the Inline looks like a Bolt Action Rifle, and the Transition & sale are easier for the end seller.

It is about sales, not making a Muzzleloader that Davy or Daniel Carrier to shoot BEAR.

Last the only National Black Powder Group the NMLRA is not too progressive, and most of their membership in in the 5 State area near their home base/range in Indiana. Plus they as a group don't do much to promote the sport, or try and brink the INLINE HUNTER to their ranks.

Because these Inline hunter are evil.

BTW I am an EX NMLRA MEMBER, and EX NMLRA Field Representative at Large

Atlas
12-31-2012, 07:19
We don't have to fill out the 4473 with them,as we do modern firearms.

Just buy in a face-to-face private sale..
I've never signed any firearms-related document of any kind.

2afreedom
12-31-2012, 07:59
I have an older, very accurate, caplock muzzleloader I use during the blackpowder hunting season. Honestly, that's the only reason I own one. It's slow to load and a PITA to clean. Given the choice I'd take a single shot smokeless powder rifle any day.

method
12-31-2012, 09:02
Thank you Method,I use hot water because I find it dries quicker,making cleaning much easier.
I was talking about also taking the nipple off and giving the firing channel a good cleaning too when taking a hour,but I could do it much faster if I wanted to.

I'm just talking about a field cleaning; boiling water is preferable, but for cleaning the bore during range time, the cold wet patches work well. To help after the dry patches and clear the nipple, I just bust a couple caps if needed.

What is really a complete PITA to clean is a cap and ball revolver.

Psychman
12-31-2012, 09:24
If you buy any one of a number of percussion revolvers all you need to do is purchase conversion cylinders and .... you have a gun that can shoot smokeless cartridges.

lunarspeak
12-31-2012, 10:42
Even in the absolute worst case scenario, there would only be new restrictions on semi-auto rifles. Bolt actions, lever actions, single shot and pumps would be unaffected so why would we have to revert to muzzle loaders?

says who? they could set bans or limits on anything..with a stroke of a pen...

while i doubt they could ever do it...if they ever did get the votes they could knock us down to single shot rifles and shotguns....they could limit any caliber..limt scope strengh

just because our guns arent black or doesnt take a hi-caps doesnt mean they are safe

Jonesee
12-31-2012, 11:00
A modern day in-line muzzle loader black powder rifle is very accurate. Mine has a scope and shoot very well.

Like Ithaca said, I got mine to hunt an additional deer season.

Walter Bishop
12-31-2012, 11:05
No they cannot. Any change will require the approval of the Republican House of Representatives and 60 percent vote in the Senate. The President cannot just do things by Executive Order like some of you guys think. Oh yeah, there have also been two Supreme Court decisions in recent years affirming the right of individuals to own firearms.

Spiffums
12-31-2012, 11:07
Lets see, they are a slow to load, inaccurate, pain in the ass to clean, horrible ballistics, stink to hell and back, rust magnets and there are much better arms available...

Other than that, I get what you are selling...

:upeyes:

Word!

Fox
12-31-2012, 11:45
A modern day in-line muzzle loader black powder rifle is very accurate. Mine has a scope and shoot very well.

Like Ithaca said, I got mine to hunt an additional deer season.

They require 209 primers or #11 percussion caps. What are you going to do when you can't buy them at the store anymore?

A flintlock is a self-sufficient ignition system as you can knap your own flints. Accuracy is in the barrel. A slow twist rifling is for patched ball, a fast twist rifling is for heavy conical bullets.

Fox
12-31-2012, 11:47
Word!

Those comments usually come from people that never seen or used a cleaning jag made for muzzle loading firearms. Used with a patch and hot water it makes cleaning very fast and easy.

JuneyBooney
12-31-2012, 11:51
It's a good question. They're inexpensive and very easy to load nowadays. I guess the interest won't come until it's all were allowed to buy.

I think that people perceive them as too messy and too much trouble. I think that is why they seem less popular than in previous years.

Fox
12-31-2012, 12:00
I think that people perceive them as too messy and too much trouble. I think that is why they seem less popular than in previous years.

That and most people think of "survival" to mean gunfighting rather than foraging.

Few here even reload metallic cartridge ammunition for their modern firearms and it's because many are a throw-away society. The concept of self-sufficiency, conservation, and reuse is one they don't comprehend. You can see that in the piles of brass they leave on the ground at the range.

When they can't buy cartridge ammunition at the store, their weapons will become useless.