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SCmasterblaster
12-31-2012, 16:22
the wall of doubts in one's head when it is time to shoot someone? I have been reading legal horror stories since 1989 (the year that I became a student of CCW). Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

The Fed
12-31-2012, 16:34
I don't know the laws of Vermont, but in general you are allowed to defend yourself in your home. Do you have the duty to retreat? That will make a huge difference in what you eventually say. There are too many variations to cover them all here. More than likely, you will be in state of shock - unless you're a combat veteran. If it was me, I'm betting my heart will be racing and I'll be hyperventilating. When you call the police for help make sure they bring an ambulance - for you and the perp if he's still breathing. Better off to say you'll talk about it after you calm down. Too many people babble and jam themselves up.

Shark1007
12-31-2012, 16:58
Remaining silent is a great idea. The rest, no one can answer. I have been concerned, as an ex LEO and lawyer these days, that the officer standing in my front yard with a gun drawn to defend me will be evaluating his potential liability rather than focusing on protecting me or my family.

Back in the day, as young cops and SWAT types, there were many of us who never talked about anything but feet per second and muzzle energy. Now, it's written in stone on the internet. If a civilian is involved in a shooting and these type posts are dug up, you have a pickle to deal with.

Best I can say is to quote a Supreme Court Justice who, when asked in a famous case to define pornography. " I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

Same with defending yourself or family. Listen to the little voice, if it says "run" then run. I think of a concealed weapon as something to slow down an agressor so you can haul ass, not to drop them in their tracks, etc. It's wise to be prepared and hopeful the effort is wasted.

I know you from prior posts to be a thoughtful and decent human being. I can imagine how uncomfortable you would be if the "let my Glock 17 do the talking" post were blown up as an exhibit with the crying family of a deceased huddled up against you in a court room.

WT
12-31-2012, 16:58
It sounds like you are in serious need of training.

Shark1007
12-31-2012, 19:05
Great point, professional training goes a long way for anyone.

ViennaGambit
12-31-2012, 19:13
Dont be a ****ing hero.

I would not shoot anyone unless I am protecting my life or the life of my family.

After the fact, you will most likely be in a state of shock and should tell the officer such and that you cannot make a statement until you've calmed down. Give the officer your gun and call your lawyer (that you already have chosen in the event of such a time).

DaneA
12-31-2012, 19:25
Judging from many of your 9,xxx posts I really don't think remaining silent is something you would be capable of. So you might want to come up with a better plan.

bobtheelf
12-31-2012, 20:15
If there are doubts, you probably shouldn't shoot.

Keoking
12-31-2012, 20:44
Start by fantasizing about killing everyone you meet. If at some point it feels right, blast away. And do not talk to the cops.

GT4494
12-31-2012, 21:14
And do not talk to the cops.

Unless they are wearing their hat....:tongueout:

janice6
12-31-2012, 21:30
If you are carrying a firearm you should have no doubts as to when it will be necessary to fire it at another person. You have to make this decision long before it becomes necessary. You have to be honest with yourself as to how much threat you will absorb before you respond with deadly force.

You have to remember that when you need to defend yourself you will not have the time to stand and debate the issue in your mind. You will be dead. You have to know the borderline that when crossed by the threat, will result in your action.

No one can figure this out for you. When you will use deadly force on another human being is something you have to decide for yourself.

Yes. Everyone in the country will second guess every millisecond of your actions and reactions. You will have to know that you did what you had to do, when you had to do it. You will also have to realize that if a jury doesn't agree with your decision, you will spend time in jail. You, however, probably will be alive.

If being alive is important to you then you will have to live with whatever decision you have made. If you cannot decide, line up some friends for pall bearers, because you will not get a chance to try for a "do over".

You have to figure out what and when you will do something, if anything. If you don't believe you can defend yourself with deadly force, please don't carry a gun, it will be taken from your body and used on another innocent thanks to you.

Good luck on your decision. I have made mine.

engineer151515
12-31-2012, 21:31
It sounds like you are in serious need of training.

Great point, professional training goes a long way for anyone.



Dont be a ****ing hero.



Three great posts right off the bat.

My rules
Protect life.
Children get behind me.
You move, I move.
Call 911.

NEOH212
12-31-2012, 22:23
I never had to shoot a person but I did have to defend myself against a attacking dog back a few years ago.

It came right off someones porch and charged me. I didn't have any time to think about anything other than drawing my gun and firing.

I was convinced in that instant that if I didn't, something really bad was going to happen to me and I was going to get torn up pretty bad.

I fired one round at near point blank range that ended the encounter. The overly plump sergeant that responded didn't know the law in Ohio and gave me a bunch of BS about it.

It took me three months to get my gun back but I got cleared of any wrong doing by the DA and the shooting was ruled justifiable. I never did get a attorney but I can tell you if I had to do it all over, I'd certainly get one.

After speaking with several officers that know the DA personally after all this was over, they said the saving grace on my part was that I cooperated with the police and gave them a statement of what happened immediately after the fact. Also because I remained near by until the police arrived, and that in my statement I outlined every step of what happened and it was notability to the letter of the law.

I was told this carried a lot of weight in his decision to not peruse any charges and deem the shooting justifiable. It also helped me that the gentleman that owned the dog was cited before for his dogs being at large and that several local LEO's have had run in's with his dogs that they were able to attest to.

Considering all the red tape there was to deal with from a shooting of this type, I couldn't imagine how awful the legal ramifications would be to have to shoot a person in self defense.

FireForged
12-31-2012, 22:43
if there is doubt, my firearm stays holstered.

Triple7
12-31-2012, 22:46
Well to start I live in Texas so laws are more defense friendly.

If my life or my family's is in danger I will have to make a quick decision based on the circumstances. I hope I make the right one. I was taught: if it was a good shooting to leave the scene for my safety, call my lawyer and then make a statement. Also saying thing like "show me your hands, and call 911" help your case. But in a good shooting in Texas you have committed no crime so you are not fleeing the scene. Keep your mouth closed until your lawyer gets there.
I don't think any training (as a civilian) that you can do can prepare you to take a life, but protective instinct goes a long way.

Glockrunner
12-31-2012, 23:05
the wall of doubts in one's head when it is time to shoot someone? I have been reading legal horror stories since 1989 (the year that I became a student of CCW). Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?
Even as a police officer it won't come easy. You'll hesitate too long the first time. If you survive, you'll have advanced beyond that question.

steveksux
01-01-2013, 08:27
For me, thinking of a line that you won't cross helps. Won't be herded into a walk in cooler, won't be transported from the scene of a robbery (they'll only take you somewhere more private, more conducive to killing you without having to worry about witnesses, people hearing the shot, etc).

Learn the laws where you are, what's required in order to be justified. Once you understand the law, the decision is easier. At that point, when you're more concerned with what the guy in front of you is going to do to you RIGHT NOW than you are with what the guy behind you is going to do to you in prison for the next 20 years then the person threatening you is fair game. Since that's what awaits you if your shooting is not justified. Realize that police do shoot people in self defense. Police are the good guys. You would be too. It's also prudent to not be too eager to engage at the first hint of passing the bare minimum criteria for using deadly force. It may be necessary in some cases, true enough, but better to be on more solid ground, the grey areas where the ice is thin is best avoided when the penalty for being mistaken is prison.

Think about it right now, and engrain it in your psyche, that there is no ethical, moral, or legal issue or shame if you're forced to take a life to defend your own, or your family's, or an innocent bystander. Say that again to yourself, right now, and keep on saying it until you believe it in your heart. You after all, do not make the decision to take a life. They made the decision that forced you to do so. That alternative was forced upon you by the perpetrators actions and decisions. You do not control the situation, they do. Their decisions created the scenario where it is permissible to employ deadly force, and their actions leave you with no choice. Their actions lead to your reaction. I see it as similar logic to felony murder rules. The blame for taking a life is theirs, and theirs alone, not yours.

In the midst of a robbery is not the time to weigh the moral imperatives of using deadly force. You'll have your hands full assessing the situation to decide when and if to act on a purely practical level, and dealing with the adrenaline and stress while you attempt to carry out the actions involved should you decide to act. Wrong time to ponder if taking a human life is a morally defensible act in the midst of that.

Figure out a set of your personal set of triggers. You must figure out when it is legal to employ deadly force so you recognize such a situation correctly and do not act prematurely, out of naked fear rather than reasonable fear. You must figure out when it is necessary to act RIGHT NOW without hesitation, and when it is safer to bide your time and look for an opening where you have the advantage. Distractions, hands full, turns his back on your for a moment. You may only have a split second to take advantage of a lapse in concentration. You must be able to act in time to take advantage of it. You must think like a predator, not a victim.

I've been in 1 robbery, prior to being legally able to carry, so I was unarmed. So clearly I'm no operator, have not BTDT in the sense of actually having to employ deadly force. I can tell you when I think I would have, when I think I should have, and when I would have had serious misgivings. I cannot tell you if I would have froze, if I would have performed adequately, let alone admirably. My legal analysis has not withstood the harsh glare of the DA afterwards deciding whether to charge me.

The above is merely my uninformed opinion of one possible approach to take, one which allowed me to make peace with the possibility of taking a human life should it become necessary, and recognize when it's in fact appropriate to do so, such that I won't hesitate when I should act, and won't act when I should hesitate.

Randy

steveksux
01-01-2013, 08:35
It sounds like you are in serious need of training.Possibly, even probably. That addresses the mechanics. Mindset seems to be the major issue, to me, though, and while training can give you stuff to ponder to fix that, all the training on paper targets in the world does not address the change in mindset required.

Otherwise you may end up one of those who find they can't or won't pull the trigger when the situation calls for it.

Randy

dosei
01-01-2013, 08:41
the wall of doubts in one's head when it is time to shoot someone? I have been reading legal horror stories since 1989 (the year that I became a student of CCW). Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

There are a few things that you really should say.
Massad Ayoob (Aftermath Shooting) - YouTube

FriarTuck
01-01-2013, 09:08
I have been reading legal horror stories since 1989 (the year that I became a student of CCW). Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

Have some intermediate stage(s) available to you below the level of your G17. Study a martial art. Carry pepper spray. Run away if at all possible.

SCmasterblaster
01-01-2013, 09:12
I have had training in MA, CA, and IN. If I am ever in a shooting I will follow Massad Ayoob's advice in the above video. Mass has been a friend of mine since 1990, and I trust his advice.

SCmasterblaster
01-01-2013, 09:14
Have some intermediate stage(s) available to you below the level of your G17. Study a martial art. Carry pepper spray. Run away if at all possible.

I carry a G17 and pepper spray. My handicap prevents me from running away. If seriously attacked, the other guy gets a bunch of 9mm 115gr JHP bullets.

rohanreginald
01-01-2013, 10:14
I just had some good training on this subject. we covered when deadly force was justified. When being in certain situations with a partner it was interesting to see when one would shoot and when or if the other partner would shoot.

Basically it came down to yes you are justified, but when you use that force is up to the individual. Some may be justified but will still persue other options, some shoot as soon as its justified.

I may percieve some threats where I can still work out a better resolution, others may not have the skill or ability to work out other alternatives. I think you are on more solid legal ground when you are cool headed and have fully assessed the situation and all possibilities before using deadly force. I am however determined to make it home to my family every night though.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

SCmasterblaster
01-01-2013, 10:42
I just had some good training on this subject. we covered when deadly force was justified. When being in certain situations with a partner it was interesting to see when one would shoot and when or if the other partner would shoot.

Basically it came down to yes you are justified, but when you use that force is up to the individual. Some may be justified but will still persue other options, some shoot as soon as its justified.

I may percieve some threats where I can still work out a better resolution, others may not have the skill or ability to work out other alternatives. I think you are on more solid legal ground when you are cool headed and have fully assessed the situation and all possibilities before using deadly force. I am however determined to make it home to my family every night though.

posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

You had some good training.

Bill Lumberg
01-03-2013, 06:18
If you have any other option than shooting, as a ccw'er, it's a doubt you should listen to. If you encounter a situation where there's no escape and no other choice, what's there to dither about? If there is either, shooting isn't your solution. the wall of doubts in one's head when it is time to shoot someone? I have been reading legal horror stories since 1989 (the year that I became a student of CCW). Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

SCmasterblaster
01-03-2013, 10:41
I never had to shoot a person but I did have to defend myself against a attacking dog back a few years ago.

It came right off someones porch and charged me. I didn't have any time to think about anything other than drawing my gun and firing.

I was convinced in that instant that if I didn't, something really bad was going to happen to me and I was going to get torn up pretty bad.

I fired one round at near point blank range that ended the encounter. The overly plump sergeant that responded didn't know the law in Ohio and gave me a bunch of BS about it.

It took me three months to get my gun back but I got cleared of any wrong doing by the DA and the shooting was ruled justifiable. I never did get a attorney but I can tell you if I had to do it all over, I'd certainly get one.

After speaking with several officers that know the DA personally after all this was over, they said the saving grace on my part was that I cooperated with the police and gave them a statement of what happened immediately after the fact. Also because I remained near by until the police arrived, and that in my statement I outlined every step of what happened and it was notability to the letter of the law.

I was told this carried a lot of weight in his decision to not peruse any charges and deem the shooting justifiable. It also helped me that the gentleman that owned the dog was cited before for his dogs being at large and that several local LEO's have had run in's with his dogs that they were able to attest to.

Considering all the red tape there was to deal with from a shooting of this type, I couldn't imagine how awful the legal ramifications would be to have to shoot a person in self defense.

I had a dog attack me once in a WalMart parking lot. His window was down about 10cm, which only let him out far enough to touch my G17 muzzle. I was sure scared, but I handled my G17 OK.

allegro
01-03-2013, 17:06
We all hope and pray that we never have to use our weapons......bottom line.

If you carry so that you "can" shoot someone, please don't carry. Rather you should carry to protect your life and those with you from ABSOLUTE harm. If there is any way out without showing or using your weapon, CHOOSE IT. Turning and running is NOT a sign of weakness or cowardice.

Have your weapon to keep your life, not to get your WAY.

Be careful everyone.

beatcop
01-03-2013, 17:49
I usually throw out some oversimplifications for people I train to remember. However they require you to be in the "normal" range. Some people don't get it...never will.

-you CAN shoot a lot of people (justified), but do you HAVE to?

...means that if there's a way to deconflict, back up/disengage safely, stop pushing a bad situation, retreat, etc....you should try to do so.

-don't shoot anyone over property.

...guys will debate the penal code in their State...be morally AND statutorily right.


General advice: issue a verbal warning when feasible, take a slide-step back if possible...retreat is an indication you don't want to be there.

If you are actually going to be injured and have no reasonable choice, then the bad guy actually makes the choice for you.

xmanhockey7
01-04-2013, 04:51
Mass's video posted earlier is a good video. This is another video that doesn't deal with SD shootings but still a good video for any person to watch.
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

SCmasterblaster
01-04-2013, 10:39
Strange, this video pushes NOT TALKING to the police, yet Mass Ayoob recommends a few basics when talking to the police after a SD shooting. I trust MA's advice over some strange professor in a video.

RussP
01-04-2013, 11:03
Strange, this video pushes NOT TALKING to the police, yet Mass Ayoob recommends a few basics when talking to the police after a SD shooting. I trust MA's advice over some strange professor in a video.This isn't a black or white issue as the gentleman in the video tries to make it, SCmasterblaster.

Mas will be the first to agree with me. What you say and how much you say will depend on many, many factors.

What I get from what Mas says is be prepared, be accurate, be succinct, don't plead your case at the scene.

SCmasterblaster
01-04-2013, 11:08
This isn't a black or white issue as the gentleman in the video tries to make it, SCmasterblaster.

Mas will be the first to agree with me. What you say and how much you say will depend on many, many factors.

What I get from what Mas says is be prepared, be accurate, be succinct, don't plead your case at the scene.


Succinct indeed. Mas also says to tell the LEO that he'll have more to say AFTER he speaks with counsel.

Bruce M
01-07-2013, 10:17
.... Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

Succinct indeed. Mas also says to tell the LEO that he'll have more to say AFTER he speaks with counsel.


If you already have an attorney who you have retained to represent you in a potential shooting, I would guess that if he has not already, he would gladly tell you what (if anything) to say to the police before he arrives and of course after he arrives I would guess he would want to speak with you before any statement is proffered.

SCmasterblaster
01-08-2013, 14:45
If you already have an attorney who you have retained to represent you in a potential shooting, I would guess that if he has not already, he would gladly tell you what (if anything) to say to the police before he arrives and of course after he arrives I would guess he would want to speak with you before any statement is proffered.

I'll follow Mass Ayoob's advice at what to say to the cops.

Ryobi
01-08-2013, 16:05
Concentrate on not needing to explain having shot someone to the cops. If you're trapped in a situation where you have no other option, you won't be following a flow chart immediately afterward.

Waboom!!
01-08-2013, 21:55
Unless they are wearing their hat....:tongueout: ... or if they have an authoritative mustache.

Lord
01-09-2013, 14:05
should i just let my g17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

absolutely

Arc Angel
01-09-2013, 16:24
the wall of doubts in one's head when it is time to shoot someone? I have been reading legal horror stories since 1989 (the year that I became a student of CCW). Should I just let my G17 do the talking and remain silent until my attorney arrives?

(1) You, more than likely, will never need to shoot anyone. (It's just not that common an event.)
(2) If you do, never - NEVER - talk to the police afterwards.
(3) The way you're going it sounds like you will lose whatever gunfight you (might) get into while you're right in the middle of mentally reviewing Mas Ayoob's most recent courtroom drama.
(4) You need to recognize the incongruity - the impossibility - of attempting to be a, 'Philadelphia lawyer' AND a competent gunfighter, all, at the same time. (Like the little Samurai kid said, 'Two minds (can get you killed!')) - 'The Last Samurai' 2003
(5) Surely you don't think police officers perform under any such mental or psychological handicap while they are doing their jobs - Do you?
(6) The Sixth Commandment actually states, 'Thou shalt not murder'; not, 'Thou shalt not kill'. You know the difference, yes!

Ryobi
01-09-2013, 17:16
Uncharacteristically well put.

SCmasterblaster
01-09-2013, 18:52
It sounds like you are in serious need of training.

I have had training. But those few classroom hours are tiny compared to the number of horror stories I have heard about mis-carrying. It seems that there are lawyers who scan the newspapers for SD shootings. Maybe I am too worried.

WT
01-09-2013, 19:05
You claim to have trained under Mas. I say the training has not sunk in.

Someone is trying to murder your wife. Will you call a lawyer before pulling the trigger?

Someone is trying to murder your grandchildren. Will you stop and think about the aftermath and civil lawsuit before acting?

You will feel bad about yourself for saving innocent lives?

Would you have stood there doing nothing at Newtown?

My God, man!

Forgive my bluntness but I suggest you get rid of your guns.

SCmasterblaster
01-09-2013, 19:14
You claim to have trained under Mas. I say the training has not sunk in.

Someone is trying to murder your wife. Will you call a lawyer before pulling the trigger?

Someone is trying to murder your grandchildren. Will you stop and think about the aftermath and civil lawsuit before acting?

You will feel bad about yourself for saving innocent lives?

Would you have stood there doing nothing at Newtown?

My God, man!

Forgive my bluntness but I suggest you get rid of your guns.

Let's get something straight right here and now. If I have to shoot someone, I won't hesitate. The aftermath will be the aftermath. I have a good attorney. I was just spectulating out loud about concerns about the aftermath.

Arc Angel
01-10-2013, 04:35
Uncharacteristically well put.

Which is, of course, more than can be demonstrably said for you. :supergrin:

Arc Angel
01-10-2013, 05:45
I have had training. But those few classroom hours are tiny compared to the number of horror stories I have heard about mis-carrying. It seems that there are lawyers who scan the newspapers for SD shootings. Maybe I am too worried.

:) Ahh, stop worrying! It's not all about you. It's not all about me. The Holy Bible clearly states that, 'It is not even to the man that is walking to direct his own steps.' (Jeremiah 10:23) That's a higher realization that has, I am certain, given many an honest man strong comfort! Assuming you pray, when you say your prayers do you not repeat, 'Lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil'? (Matthew 6:9-13)

None of us go through life all by ourselves. There are higher powers and authorities that are always acting and reacting everywhere around us. I don't care if a man: 'trusts his instincts', 'relies upon his training', or 'falls back upon his experience'. 'The race is not always to the swift; nor the battle to the strong.' (Ecclesiastes 9:11)

As for myself? I do not worry about what I cannot control. I simply take comfort in the fact that although an event, or events, might be beyond me, God remains as the ultimate authority and, at His pleasure, always has the last word. As for me? I try to work through my conscience and, as best as I'm able, do the right thing. Thereafter I let circumstances and events take care of themselves. ;)

In my experience: It's always best to deliberately, 'bear up' under whatever life trials and tribulations come your way. We, all, get tried - All of us! One of the most comforting scriptures in the Holy Bible says, 'There hath no temptation taken anyone, but such as is common to man; but God is faithful, and will not suffer you to be tempted beyond what ye are able. He will, with the temptation, also, make a way for you to escape; that ye may be able to bear it.' (I Corinthians 10:13)

THIS IS A PROMISE OF GOD TO ALL TRUE BELIEVERS! I've lived my entire life under its, 'umbrella'. I don't worry about gunfighting; I don't worry about being disarmed, either. I don't worry about being, 'broke', or about becoming diseased. In all the circumstances of your life, in all the circumstances of mine, God is always the final arbiter - He has the last word! Consequently, I don't worry about events which I cannot control; AND, specifically, for this particular subject: I take all, 'gun gurus' legal advice with a knowing, 'grain of salt'.

Do the right thing! Develop an active Christian conscience and, then, work to obey it. 'The righteous are NEVER forsaken.' (Psalm 37:25*) Whether you end up in a gunfight or not, you'll be fine! :)



* Read it! This is a very beautiful (Psalm (http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/14452/eVerseID/14452)); and, in particular, this is an often comforting verse. :thumbsup:

SCmasterblaster
01-10-2013, 12:24
:) Ahh, stop worrying! It's not all about you. It's not all about me. The Holy Bible clearly states that, 'It is not even to the man that is walking to direct his own steps.' (Jeremiah 10:23) That's a higher realization that has, I am certain, given many an honest man strong comfort! Assuming you pray, when you say your prayers do you not repeat, 'Lead us not into temptation;but deliver us from evil'? (Matthew 6:9-13)

None of us go through life all by ourselves. There are higher powers and authorities that are always acting and reacting everywhere around us. I don't care if a man: 'trusts his instincts', 'relies upon his training', or 'falls back upon his experience'. 'The race is not always to the swift; nor the battle to the strong.' (Ecclesiastes 9:11)

As for myself? I do not worry about what I cannot control. I simply take comfort in the fact that although an event, or events, might be beyond me, God remains as the ultimate authority and, at His pleasure, always has the last word. As for me? I try to work through my conscience and, as best as I'm able, do the right thing. Thereafter I let circumstances and events take care of themselves. ;)

In my experience: It's always best to deliberately, 'bear up' under whatever life trials and tribulations come your way. We, all, get tried - All of us! One of the most comforting scriptures in the Holy Bible says, 'There hath no temptation taken anyone, but such as is common to man; but God is faithful, and will not suffer you to be tempted beyond what ye are able. He will, with the temptation, also, make a way for you to escape; that ye may be able to bear it.' (I Corinthians 10:13)

THIS IS A PROMISE OF GOD TO ALL TRUE BELIEVERS! I've lived my entire life under its, 'umbrella'. I don't worry about gunfighting; I don't worry about being disarmed, either. I don't worry about being, 'broke'' or about becoming diseased. In all the circumstances of your life, in all the circumstances of mine, God is always the final arbiter - He has the last word! Consequently, I don't worry about events which I cannot control; AND, specifically, for this particular subject: I take all, 'gun gurus' legal advice with a knowing, 'grain of salt'.

Do the right thing! Develop an active Christian conscience and, then, work to obey it. 'The righteous are NEVER forsaken.' (Psalm 37:25*) Whether you end up in a gunfight or not, you'll be fine! :)



* Read it! This is a very beautiful Psalm; and, in particular, this is an often comforting verse. :thumbsup:

Thank you, sir.

MonsieurBon
01-11-2013, 18:47
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

I had some really great instructors. One was a former Sheriff's deputy who had been involved in some hostage rescue situations where the hostage taker was killed.

He (and the other instructors) stressed the importance of not talking to police without a lawyer. However, he also said when you are in court or talking to police with a lawyer present, to NOT answer how many times you fired your gun. He said we should just say "I fired my gun until I no longer felt threatened." He said a DA might try to catch you in a lie, where you thought you fired 5 times but it was actually 7, and then use that to indicate how untrustworthy you are. Whereas if you say you felt threatened and fired until your life was no longer threatened, that's better.