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DanaT
01-02-2013, 16:36
Has anyone ever moved to just so their kids can go to a better school?

I just ask this, because the last two days I have gotten it into my head to buy a new house because of the performance of the schools in the area I am in. In theory, I can send my kid to any school as long as I will provide transportation but in reality, there are enrollment caps and everyone within the boundaries are guaranteed a spot, everyone else gets leftover spots. The top schools, there are no extra spots.

So, I am tempted to move for schools. What I dint like, is spending twice as much on a house but sometimes there are things in life more important than money. OR maybe I am just crazy.

.264 magnum
01-02-2013, 17:06
Has anyone ever moved to just so their kids can go to a better school?

I just ask this, because the last two days I have gotten it into my head to buy a new house because of the performance of the schools in the area I am in. In theory, I can send my kid to any school as long as I will provide transportation but in reality, there are enrollment caps and everyone within the boundaries are guaranteed a spot, everyone else gets leftover spots. The top schools, there are no extra spots.

So, I am tempted to move for schools. What I dint like, is spending twice as much on a house but sometimes there are things in life more important than money. OR maybe I am just crazy.


It happens all the time. My wife and I moved into Dallas proper from Plano, a northern suburb, to be closer to our kid's high schools. Our new house was almost exactly 2x as expensive per foot as the old one. In our case the schools were/are private so geographical district boundaries don't apply - we needed to be closer. That said people move into better districts and pay a premium to do so every day.

arclight610
01-02-2013, 17:08
It is of my opinion that the performance of the school is less of a factor than the performance and desire to learn of the child.

deadmanglocking
01-02-2013, 17:17
Yes. We just moved into Highland Park so our child will attend school here instead of DISD. We looked at the 3x cost of our new house versus the old as an investment when she finishes school. If it means my child has better opportunities than I did it is well worth it.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 17:22
It is of my opinion that the performance of the school is less of a factor than the performance and desire to learn of the child.

To some extent.

When I am comparing schools, whioch would you want your kid in:
ACT scores do not[b] reflect that in an average university the kids coming out have a 75% chance of making a C or better in a freshman class and 48% of this school's graduates, who went to college, needed to re-take high school-level courses (remediation rate)

OR

ACT scores [b]reflect that in an average university the kids coming out have a 75% chance of making a C or better in a freshman class and 19% of this school's graduates, who went to college, needed to re-take high school-level courses (remediation rate).

There seems to be something more than just individual ability.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 17:24
It happens all the time. My wife and I moved into Dallas proper from Plano, a northern suburb, to be closer to our kid's high schools. Our new house was almost exactly 2x as expensive per foot as the old one. In our case the schools were/are private so geographical district boundaries don't apply - we needed to be closer. That said people move into better districts and pay a premium to do so every day.

I am looking at the numbers. About 1.75x more per square foot and larger houses.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 17:24
We looked at the 3x cost of our new house versus the old as an investment when she finishes school.

This is where my thinking is going.

INJoker
01-02-2013, 17:26
It is of my opinion that the performance of the school is less of a factor than the performance and desire to learn of the child.

In the purely statistical sense, the school your child attends will not impact his or her grades in any significant way.

If you put a failing student in the best school, he is still statistically likely to fail. If you put an Honors student in a ghetto school, he is still statistically likely to excel.

There is a ton of data on this... You should read the books Freakonomics and Outliers.

deadmanglocking
01-02-2013, 17:36
This is where my thinking is going.

We felt comfortable looking at the history of the property values in the town to make the investment. It does not go down only up. Being one of the most sought after places in Dallas to own property we feel we will make a nice profit in 18 years.

HarlDane
01-02-2013, 17:41
In the purely statistical sense, the school your child attends will not impact his or her grades in any significant way.

If you put a failing student in the best school, he is still statistically likely to fail. If you put an Honors student in a ghetto school, he is still statistically likely to excel.

There is a ton of data on this... You should read the books Freakonomics and Outliers.I agree.

Kids with a solid home life and parents who raise them to be responsible and value education are going to succeed, regardless of the school they attend (within reason of course).

With the exception of a small percentage of elite private schools, the education provided by most schools is essentially the same. They all have good teachers and bad, good students and bad, etc. The parents are the true difference makers.

dango
01-02-2013, 17:41
People do it all the time. I promised my wife and son that I would stick it out until he left the nest.He turned out a man that I'm proud of , very proud but , he was highly motivated by my wife,
(Worldly Traveled-military brat) :supergrin: and my adventurous spirit. I've had my wife places man friends refused to go.:supergrin:

Not by force , by choice. It's in his blood , the curious adventure
gene. Yes , we do live through our children . Not only am I his father but friend also.I am one LUCKY MAN to have the privilege
to live through my boy !:wavey:

DoubleWide
01-02-2013, 17:45
How bad is your neighborhood? What do you get out of it? Better house, better neighborhood, less travel time, etc.? There's a big difference between moving from a bad neighborhood and a decent neighborhood.

Would you be better off spending more time with your kid or hiring a tutor?

Deanster
01-02-2013, 17:46
I know many many people who have done this, and about 50% seem to have made a legitimate improvement. The others are just doing Same Stuff, Different District. ;)

The big thing in my mind is to get REALLY clear about what you mean by 'better'... Better teachers? Better peer group? Smaller classes? More activities? Larger sports teams?

and then figure out a) if the school you're looking at actually provides those specific things, and to what extent (are the classes smaller at every grade? how much smaller at each grade? are ALL classrooms smaller, or are they just advertising the average? etc. etc.) they're available, and b) what do YOU have to do to actually receive those specific things - can you actually get the good teachers, get into the smaller class, get on the great sports teams, etc.

It's awfully easy to move, spend a ton of money, uproot everyone and disrupt your entire lives to get something that looks an awful lot like what you had before. It's equally easy to get a completely different experience than you had before, either positively or negatively.

My observation is that on-the-ground research is the only way to win this. Go to the school, not once, but a half-dozen times. Show up for their science night, music night, etc. Talk to parents enough to get past the 'oh, yeah, it's a GREAT school', and get to where they'd like it to be better. Ask where families who've had a tough time there (there are ALWAYS people who have a tough time at a particular school) end up, and see if you can find out why they left, and why they chose their new school.

Sounds like a lot of work? It's about 10% of what it'll cost to move and pay for a more-expensive house... twice, because you didn't get what you moved for the first time.

FLGatorFan
01-02-2013, 17:51
I agree.

Kids with a solid home life and parents who raise them to be responsible and value education are going to succeed, regardless of the school they attend (within reason of course).

With the exception of a small percentage of elite private schools, the education provided by most schools is essentially the same. They all have good teachers and bad, good students and bad, etc. The parents are the true difference makers.

This. Parents, not schools, determine whether children succeed. That's why throwing more money into schools is ineffective.

HarlDane
01-02-2013, 17:53
I know many many people who have done this, and about 50% seem to have made a legitimate improvement. The others are just doing Same Stuff, Different District. ;)

The big thing in my mind is to get REALLY clear about what you mean by 'better'... Better teachers? Better peer group? Smaller classes? More activities? Larger sports teams?

and then figure out a) if the school you're looking at actually provides those specific things, and to what extent (are the classes smaller at every grade? how much smaller at each grade? are ALL classrooms smaller, or are they just advertising the average? etc. etc.) they're available, and b) what do YOU have to do to actually receive those specific things - can you actually get the good teachers, get into the smaller class, get on the great sports teams, etc.

It's awfully easy to move, spend a ton of money, uproot everyone and disrupt your entire lives to get something that looks an awful lot like what you had before. It's equally easy to get a completely different experience than you had before, either positively or negatively.

My observation is that on-the-ground research is the only way to win this. Go to the school, not once, but a half-dozen times. Show up for their science night, music night, etc. Talk to parents enough to get past the 'oh, yeah, it's a GREAT school', and get to where they'd like it to be better. Ask where families who've had a tough time there (there are ALWAYS people who have a tough time at a particular school) end up, and see if you can find out why they left, and why they chose their new school.

Sounds like a lot of work? It's about 10% of what it'll cost to move and pay for a more-expensive house... twice, because you didn't get what you moved for the first time.Exellent post.

INJoker
01-02-2013, 17:54
The big thing in my mind is to get REALLY clear about what you mean by 'better'... Better teachers? Better peer group? Smaller classes? More activities? Larger sports teams?


"Better:"

Predominantly white/Caucasian
Low number of free-or-reduced-lunch recipients
District with high median income
New(er) construction buildings
High district ratings/rankings at the state level

And don't you even get all offended on me here... Even the minorities try to send their kids to the rich white schools in a misguided attempt at "bringing their kids up."

The reality of the situation is that those non-conforming students simply drag the average down.

:cool:

RonS
01-02-2013, 18:02
We did. Moved to a smaller town to get away from some of the issues that distract kids from learning. Like drugs and violence and thugs. Worked for a few years. Downside was that we found a limited range of educational options. No Latin classes, French was discontinued after a few years and the only foreign language left was Spanish, had to fight to keep Physics II on the menu.

Our theory after raising two kids is this. You educate your children to the point that they can learn and enjoy learning, after that you help them learn. The school discourages them from learning but certifies them with a diploma in return for your tax dollars and playing their petty ass games.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 19:10
"Better:"

Predominantly white/Caucasian
Low number of free-or-reduced-lunch recipients
District with high median income
New(er) construction buildings
High district ratings/rankings at the state level

And don't you even get all offended on me here... Even the minorities try to send their kids to the rich white schools in a misguided attempt at "bringing their kids up."

The reality of the situation is that those non-conforming students simply drag the average down.

:cool:

You mean like living in a city like this (always ranked very high in best places in the country to live):

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2011/snapshots/PL0846355.html

And many of your criteria above are met

INJoker
01-02-2013, 19:15
You mean like living in a city like this (always ranked very high in best places in the country to live):

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2011/snapshots/PL0846355.html

And many of your criteria above are met

Hell yes!

Move there. Buy land.

gjk5
01-02-2013, 19:17
we made the decision to do private school, and it does make a difference. I'm not interested in trying to make anyone else believe otherwise, but my kids will stay out of the public school system as long as possible.

wrenrj1
01-02-2013, 19:19
A few articles in our local paper in the past of families moving to our town for their kids to compete mainly in football/volleyball programs then to move to the collegiate level (some for residency reasons). Haven't heard any that have moved for intellectual reasons.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 19:34
I was only thinking of doing this because of academics.

Bruce M
01-02-2013, 19:36
"Better:"

Predominantly white/Caucasian
Low number of free-or-reduced-lunch recipients
District with high median income
New(er) construction buildings
High district ratings/rankings at the state level

And don't you even get all offended on me here... Even the minorities try to send their kids to the rich white schools in a misguided attempt at "bringing their kids up."

The reality of the situation is that those non-conforming students simply drag the average down.

:cool:

There is one of these I can argue. I am not certain that the age of the building is critical. This one built in 1922 seems to compare favorably with most schools. (Boston Latin)

http://images.johnnycupcakes.com/cc488c611377555abe07889825021ff8/2010/06/Boston-Latin-School.jpg

Gallium
01-02-2013, 19:39
In the purely statistical sense, the school your child attends will not impact his or her grades in any significant way.

If you put a failing student in the best school, he is still statistically likely to fail. If you put an Honors student in a ghetto school, he is still statistically likely to excel.

There is a ton of data on this... You should read the books Freakonomics and Outliers.


I would like to believe those statistics, but having lived in the inner city, and worked in those schools, I see how easy it is for "good" kids to get lost and sucked in those schools compared to where I now live, where my housing budget was something of a multiple compared to where I lived.

I believe when people are packed together too tightly, the social fabric breaks down.

INJoker
01-02-2013, 19:41
I would like to believe those statistics, but having lived in the inner city, and worked in those schools, I see how easy it is for "good" kids to get lost and sucked in those schools compared to where I now live, where my housing budget was something of a multiple compared to where I lived.

I believe when people are packed together too tightly, the social fabric breaks down.

I can appreciate that perspective.

I particularly agree with your last point.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 19:42
I have also had the wild thought of putting the kid in a German school for a year.

My residency permit came Monday (and is valid starting next week) so it is easy to do.

Bruce M
01-02-2013, 19:48
At the risk of thinking about this by looking at the money, how much more would the house cost versus a private school, presuming there was a close private school that is competitive with the school for the area of the new house. I realize that some/most/all/more than all of the cost of the new house may be recovered when it is sold, but my sense is that you are looking at the education as the ultimate goal/investment.

sum-dum-guy
01-02-2013, 20:07
I agree.

Kids with a solid home life and parents who raise them to be responsible and value education are going to succeed, regardless of the school they attend (within reason of course).

With the exception of a small percentage of elite private schools, the education provided by most schools is essentially the same. They all have good teachers and bad, good students and bad, etc. The parents are the true difference makers.

Yep. Lots of data to support that parental involvement is the most important factor.

An alternative approach is to take the difference in that moving/housing cost and apply that to tutors.

.264 magnum
01-02-2013, 20:54
In the purely statistical sense, the school your child attends will not impact his or her grades in any significant way.

If you put a failing student in the best school, he is still statistically likely to fail. If you put an Honors student in a ghetto school, he is still statistically likely to excel.

There is a ton of data on this... You should read the books Freakonomics and Outliers.


Do you actually believe this?

HollowHead
01-02-2013, 21:02
Twice. Our parents moved us from Brooklyn and then to Manhattan, and then to Nassau County, Long Island...all before 1974. HH

JMS
01-02-2013, 21:49
We bought our house based on it being ranked in the top 3 in our county and the school 'demographics' being similar to us. The middle school and high school are not up to par at this point so we understand in 10 years we'll move again, again to an area with the better schools.

Because of zoning, I was forced to go to a middle school where I was a minority and academic achievement among your peers was frowned upon. I will not let my children go through this.

Another option is to buy a cheap place in the school zone you want your children to go to, rent it out to someone else and use the address to secure a place for them.

DanaT
01-02-2013, 22:21
Another option is to buy a cheap place in the school zone you want your children to go to, rent it out to someone else and use the address to secure a place for them.

That is technically illegal. Some people have been prosecuted.

But there are moral things that are illegal...

jp3975
01-03-2013, 00:38
I have also had the wild thought of putting the kid in a German school for a year.

My residency permit came Monday (and is valid starting next week) so it is easy to do.

I would seriously consider it. What could it hurt? Im sure the schools are as good if not better than here and it would give your kid an interesting life experience.

Phaze5ive
01-03-2013, 01:03
I attended three different high schools in four years. The second I turned 16 and got a car, I left to find better schools. Trust me, the school that your children attend matters. It's not just about your kid, it's also about his environment and his peers. The pace of the classes in public schools are set by the dumbest students. There's no point being a big fish in a small pond. Take competitive universities, for example. Being valedictorian of your high school doesn't predict anything about your college performance.

INJoker
01-03-2013, 05:35
Do you actually believe this?

No, no... You're right... I don't... Levitt, Dubner, and Gladwell are obviously source references of the lowest order with absolutely no idea how to gather, critically analyze, or effectively interpret data.

The mountains of awards bestowed upon them for their economic and literary prowess are utterly meaningless.

Additionally, my own experiences working with teenaged students in both affluent and impoverished communities has also played absolutely no role whatsoever in forming my opinions - scientific or anecdotal.

I'm so glad you challenged me on this point. I was literally within a gnat's ass of forming a deeply held opinion of the socio-economic and racial demographic impact on student performance in public schools purely on a whim and without any foreknowledge of nor research into the topic.

You sir, have saved me from a lifetime of confusion and frustration.

:cool:

Bruce M
01-03-2013, 05:41
In the purely statistical sense, the school your child attends will not impact his or her grades in any significant way.

If you put a failing student in the best school, he is still statistically likely to fail. If you put an Honors student in a ghetto school, he is still statistically likely to excel.

There is a ton of data on this... You should read the books Freakonomics and Outliers.

Do you actually believe this?


I believe it. But I also believe that the honors student ends up with a better education at a good or great school than he would get at a mediocre or terrible school. It is probably dificult to do well in physics or calculus in high school at a school that has neither as classes.

...
Another option is to buy a cheap place in the school zone you want your children to go to, rent it out to someone else and use the address to secure a place for them.

That is technically illegal. Some people have been prosecuted.

...
There is that. But also if the school does not have an adequate enough visiting teacher or registrar or whoever does those things to be able to figure stuff like that out quickly, it may not be a great school anyway.

JerryVO
01-03-2013, 09:30
"Better:"

Predominantly white/Caucasian
Low number of free-or-reduced-lunch recipients
District with high median income
New(er) construction buildings
High district ratings/rankings at the state level


:cool:

I am starting the process of looking for a new home for this exact reason. My boys are starting Kindergarden and VPK next year and with the housing market the way it is we are stuck in our crappy district (50% on reduced lunch, low median income, C/D schools, 85% graduation rate) so we are going the private school route next year. Hopefully by the following year we will have moved into a much better district. I am specifically targeted 2 and only 2 neighborhoods in the entire county where all 3 schools (Elementary, Middle, High) are all A rated schools with a 97%+ graduation rate.

coastal4974
01-03-2013, 09:58
Watch Waiting For Superman then put your kid in private school

Chuck66
01-03-2013, 10:06
Doing it right now. Closing on a new house on 1/14, and a large part of it is to get my kids into the city schools. They are excellent here. The county, not so much. There are other reasons we're moving, but schools are in the top 2.

When we moved to our current house 5 years ago, we were supposed to be able to put our kids in the city schools and pay tuition. Seemed like a good idea as we drive past the choice schools every day anyway to work. Three months after we moved, the city closed the schools to tuition students because they decided that they had to restructure resources to offer extra English-As-Second-Language classes for all the hispanic kids coming into the area.

There were parents I know personally who had been paying tuition and sending their kids to city schools for years who called on the 3rd day of school that year and told to come get their kids, that they couldn't stay even the rest of that day. Had I known all of that, I'd have bought in the city to start with.

JMS
01-03-2013, 10:28
This is a website I used while looking, you can also search for houses tied to the school district.

http://www.greatschools.org/

DanaT
01-03-2013, 10:48
JMS, you know the Mayan calendar didn't predict the after all?

JMS
01-03-2013, 11:18
JMS, you know the Mayan calendar didn't predict the after all?

What?

CAcop
01-03-2013, 11:29
"Better:"

Predominantly white/Caucasian
Low number of free-or-reduced-lunch recipients
District with high median income
New(er) construction buildings
High district ratings/rankings at the state level

And don't you even get all offended on me here... Even the minorities try to send their kids to the rich white schools in a misguided attempt at "bringing their kids up."

The reality of the situation is that those non-conforming students simply drag the average down.

:cool:

Around here the mostly white affluent schools in the town I work in have test scores almost as bad as the mostly poor and Hispanic school on the other end of the county. Everybody "knows" the white schools are "better" but the stats don't lie.

Also one of the good schools in the county is a total snake pit if you send a girl there. She better be pretty by not hot and you better make more money than 99% of the parents otherwise she will come home crying from school once a week.

The other good school is in the middle of toothless methheads. Go figure.

Like anything real estate related look beyond the zip code.

DanaT
01-03-2013, 11:32
What?

How can we possibly agree on something unless the end of the world is near. And the Mayan prophesies didnt come true.

CAcop
01-03-2013, 11:38
That is technically illegal. Some people have been prosecuted.

But there are moral things that are illegal...

Illegal?

In CA there is no prosecuetable offense for doing this. CO sucks if they do.

Around here the schools love students like this because if they start screwing around they threaten them with the ****ty school. If they do well they bump up the test scores. There is no downside for them.

DanaT
01-03-2013, 11:39
Like anything real estate related look beyond the zip code.

In CO there is a website that ranks all the schools or academic performance. Those are the numbers I am looking at.

What is interesting, and against GT wisdom, the best schools tend to be in the liberal areas. Many of the good schools are in/around Boulder. I suspect that this has to do with parents (having very high percentage of population with minimum bachelors tend to expect the same for their kids).

I am actually looking at two areas. Both nearer to Boulder than I am currently. I cant stand the PC politics (i am anything but PC) but there are many good things too. You may find it ironic, but where my inlaws live is very near boulder, and I go there to shoot prairie dogs because it is legal. Go over the property line into city limits and prairie dogs are protected animals.

JMS
01-03-2013, 11:41
How can we possibly agree on something unless the end of the world is near. And the Mayan prophesies didnt come true.

As long as we discuss schools and cars we're cool, nothing else :rofl:

CAcop
01-03-2013, 11:42
Do you actually believe this?

You realize majority just means 51%?

Remember he is not talking about all students. He is talking about the best students.

Think of it like a business. Is it possible to have talented sales staff you the business is foundering? Is it possible to have a sales staff that sucks but have a booming company?

Asking, "Why?" explains a lot of things.

DanaT
01-03-2013, 11:44
Illegal?

In CA there is no prosecuetable offense for doing this. CO sucks if they do.


I need to look.

But there are examples in other states.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/26/mom-jailed-for-enrolling-kids-in-wrong-school-district/

DanaT
01-03-2013, 11:46
As long as we discuss schools and cars we're cool, nothing else :rofl:

You would be surprised.

We could discuss beer and schnitzel....that doesnt get me worked up

DanaT
01-03-2013, 11:48
You realize majority just means 51%?

Remember he is not talking about all students. He is talking about the best students.

If some havent noticed, I dont like being number 2.

I want to give my kid every opportunity to do better than I have done.

JMS
01-03-2013, 11:58
I need to look.

But there are examples in other states.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/26/mom-jailed-for-enrolling-kids-in-wrong-school-district/

If you own two places and are paying your taxes which support the schools, how can they decide which school you are zoned for?

CAcop
01-03-2013, 12:18
If some havent noticed, I dont like being number 2.

I want to give my kid every opportunity to do better than I have done.

In my town we have a school that is a charter school where all you have to is pay a $3,000 a year "donation." It is in the top 5 of schools in the country. Kids leave there for various reasons, some left vague.

You can have a problem with being #2 but your kids might not.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 12:38
No, no... You're right... I don't... Levitt, Dubner, and Gladwell are obviously source references of the lowest order with absolutely no idea how to gather, critically analyze, or effectively interpret data.

The mountains of awards bestowed upon them for their economic and literary prowess are utterly meaningless.

Additionally, my own experiences working with teenaged students in both affluent and impoverished communities has also played absolutely no role whatsoever in forming my opinions - scientific or anecdotal.

I'm so glad you challenged me on this point. I was literally within a gnat's ass of forming a deeply held opinion of the socio-economic and racial demographic impact on student performance in public schools purely on a whim and without any foreknowledge of nor research into the topic.

You sir, have saved me from a lifetime of confusion and frustration.

:cool:

Maybe we are talking past each other. You mentioned grades specifically across schools and I am thinking in more of a holistic academic achievement kind of way.

With respect, it's nuts to argue that a B student in an IB program or similar isn't outperforming his B earning counterpart in a country school does not offer a number of classes that the IB kid must take.

My daughter is not too far above the 60th percentile in GPA at her school - good but not great (very small, very demanding competitive entry private school). She just scored well over 200 on the PSAT. Her best friend, who is in the 95 percentile at her school in another state, scored one point lower on the PSAT.

DanaT
01-03-2013, 12:38
In my town we have a school that is a charter school where all you have to is pay a $3,000 a year "donation." It is in the top 5 of schools in the country. Kids leave there for various reasons, some left vague.

You can have a problem with being #2 but your kids might not.

Our charter schools can be good but not necessarily. Some of the public schools are better than the private.

Just as example, the top athletic high school in the state managed to get a really good quarterback football coach. You may have heard of the guy? Here is a picture of the high school coach.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/0823/20070823_021720_ELWAY_JL453.jpg

That type of coach tends to make the program better.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 12:39
In my town we have a school that is a charter school where all you have to is pay a $3,000 a year "donation." It is in the top 5 of schools in the country. Kids leave there for various reasons, some left vague.

You can have a problem with being #2 but your kids might not.

Top 5?

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 12:47
You realize majority just means 51%?

Remember he is not talking about all students. He is talking about the best students.

Think of it like a business. Is it possible to have talented sales staff you the business is foundering? Is it possible to have a sales staff that sucks but have a booming company?

Asking, "Why?" explains a lot of things.

I'm talking about the best students too.

I have one who is a one time NMSF kid who is headed off to medical school next fall - his choice from four offers so far. And a younger one who missed NMSF status by two points. We take education very seriously in my house.

I agree, that across populations, parents drive their children's success more than any other factor. A LARGE portion of that is due to the fact that high achieving/highly expectant parents demand, pay for, will move into excellent school districts.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 12:49
Illegal?

In CA there is no prosecuetable offense for doing this. CO sucks if they do.

Around here the schools love students like this because if they start screwing around they threaten them with the ****ty school. If they do well they bump up the test scores. There is no downside for them.



That's illegal in Texas as well. Usually the cheaters around here do so for sports related reasons not academic reasons.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 12:55
Our charter schools can be good but not necessarily. Some of the public schools are better than the private.

Just as example, the top athletic high school in the state managed to get a really good quarterback football coach. You may have heard of the guy? Here is a picture of the high school coach.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/0823/20070823_021720_ELWAY_JL453.jpg

That type of coach tends to make the program better.

Elway and his Stanford degree don't impress me one bit!

Around here the privates schools range from some of the best in the country to nothing more than anti-academic religious indoctrination camps - one of these is just west from my house.

JMS
01-03-2013, 13:00
A LARGE portion of that is due to the fact that high achieving/highly expectant parents demand, pay for, will move into excellent school districts.

As DanaT said, I want better for my children than what I had (not that I had it bad) and I expect them to want better for their children and on and on.

The difference in the schools in my area/demographic is that there are some schools where the parents (large majority) expect the schools to raise the kids and motivate the kids while the parents sit back vs. the schools I am interested in where the parents work with the staff and take an active role in the child's achievement.

For me it's a better investment to buy a nicer house in a nicer area than spend $60k+ to send them to a private school, I'd rather put that $60k towards the mortgage.

CAcop
01-03-2013, 13:03
Top 5?

Just checked again. Top 8. It was #3 a few years back. I guess they only brag when moving up. Go figure.

PM sent to give you the name.

ETA: There is a lot of drama associated with that school. Some external a lot internal. As much as I would like my kid to go there if we live in the area arounf that time it just might not be worth it if the kid ends up being a basket case or I have to deal with people (parents and admin) who need meds.

CAcop
01-03-2013, 13:13
Our charter schools can be good but not necessarily. Some of the public schools are better than the private.

Just as example, the top athletic high school in the state managed to get a really good quarterback football coach. You may have heard of the guy? Here is a picture of the high school coach.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/0823/20070823_021720_ELWAY_JL453.jpg

That type of coach tends to make the program better.

It might attract better players but if he can't coach will they learn anything?

It's like being a firearms instructor. Some of the weaker shooters like me training them because I am low key. I am a good shot but nowhere near the best. Some of our best shots can't teach because they spend their time telling the student how great they are.

Besides Elway came from Stanford. Not impressed. I know too many people from Stanford who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

Go Cal!

The Fed
01-03-2013, 13:20
I didn't but my boss at the time did. He was too far from the best-rated schools in his district and needed to move. Both his kids got full rides to prestigious schools so I guess it was worth it.

DustyJacket
01-03-2013, 13:24
When we moved to Missouri 10 years ago, we shopped the best school districts, and looked at those houses.

My daughter got motivated (Boulder County was too into 'feelings' and 'just try - never mind about spelling' and the like) and she became a straight A student, got a scholarship that pays her tuition, and is now a Junior in College with a 3.95 (or so) GPA.

So, yes. We did.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 13:25
Just checked again. Top 8. It was #3 a few years back. I guess they only brag when moving up. Go figure.

PM sent to give you the name.

ETA: There is a lot of drama associated with that school. Some external a lot internal. As much as I would like my kid to go there if we live in the area arounf that time it just might not be worth it if the kid ends up being a basket case or I have to deal with people (parents and admin) who need meds.

Well here are my thoughts. Dallas, I know no one will want to believe this has TWO of the top two or three TAG/Magnate schools in the US.
TAG/ Talented and Gifted School since inception has more or less always been the #1 public school in country and The Dallas Science and Engineering Magnate is usually #2 in the country.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools



*ETA - Thanks for the PM - BTW.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 13:26
As DanaT said, I want better for my children than what I had (not that I had it bad) and I expect them to want better for their children and on and on.

The difference in the schools in my area/demographic is that there are some schools where the parents (large majority) expect the schools to raise the kids and motivate the kids while the parents sit back vs. the schools I am interested in where the parents work with the staff and take an active role in the child's achievement.

For me it's a better investment to buy a nicer house in a nicer area than spend $60k+ to send them to a private school, I'd rather put that $60k towards the mortgage.

That's perfectly reasonable.

DanaT
01-03-2013, 14:11
Elway and his Stanford degree don't impress me one bit!

Maybe not, but if my kid was playing football as QB in highschool, I sure would want a hall of fame QB coaching. Doesn't matter which one. I think it is best to learn from the best.

DanaT
01-03-2013, 14:13
It might attract better players but if he can't coach will they learn anything?


I highly suspect that being VP of Operations and involved daily with coaching the current #1 team in the NFL, would maybe mean that he probably has some coaching ability. Where do you get that he is not able to coach?

Cali-Glock
01-03-2013, 14:24
Invest your time and money in a private school or home schooling.

Wake_jumper
01-03-2013, 15:17
Seems to me that moving to a better school district is a no-brainer. The only reason we live where we do is for the schools. If you don't want to move, private school may be a good option. The best money you will ever spend will be for your kids education.

.264 magnum
01-03-2013, 17:53
Maybe not, but if my kid was playing football as QB in highschool, I sure would want a hall of fame QB coaching. Doesn't matter which one. I think it is best to learn from the best.

For clarity sake I agree with you, Elway is greatness.

Left-Right
01-03-2013, 18:11
Well here are my thoughts. Dallas, I know no one will want to believe this has TWO of the top two or three TAG/Magnate schools in the US.
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools


Of course you meant magnet, not magnate.

shotgunred
01-03-2013, 18:24
I just did this year. I moved from a school district that can't make state standards to the third best in the state. While last years teachers were good teachers they were handicapped. They had to spend a lot of time covering everything in English and then Spanish. In my daughters last school she was in advanced math, The new school says old schools advanced math is not even up to their normal standards. They gave her a free math tutor to catchup. The old school district couldn't even maintain a 50% graduation rate. The new school district has more than that go to college.

I don't believe for a second that the schools don't matter. Yes other things matter also. But going to a school that expects you to succeed and work hard to help you succeed is a lot better than the other alternative.

Deanster
01-03-2013, 19:48
"Better:"

Predominantly white/Caucasian
Low number of free-or-reduced-lunch recipients
District with high median income
New(er) construction buildings
High district ratings/rankings at the state level

And don't you even get all offended on me here... Even the minorities try to send their kids to the rich white schools in a misguided attempt at "bringing their kids up."

The reality of the situation is that those non-conforming students simply drag the average down.

:cool:

I have no problem with that as someone's list of things that constitute 'better' - many of them match mine, and they're a solid first cut on criteria for choosing a school/district.

However, I'd also argue that not all schools that fit this description are equal, and that being really thoughtful about EXACTLY what you're (literally) buying into is wise. If you're moving and buying a house, you're making a very serious commitment to that particular school/district, and it seems to me that just choosing a rich white area with good scores might not quite count as 'due diligence'.

I'll also say that several people I know well moved to locations that fit the above description 'for the schools', and when they got there found that there's more to life than rankings and high socio-economic numbers.

Just as an example, the top-rated high school in our district is in a crap neighborhood, has a profoundly mixed racial makeup (roughly 1/3 each of white/black/asian), a large reduced lunch population, etc. It's also been the home of the district's gifted program for 40 years, has the cream of the crop of instructors at every grade, a marine science program that sends students to Hawaii, Australia, and Africa each year, etc. etc. etc.

The top rated high school in the next district over has great AP classes, and pushes most students through them, but has a reputation as a 'student-mill', pushing gobs of kids through, but offering very little to anyone who wants to do something unique.

Which one do you move near if you want to move 'for better schools'? I truly think either one could be 'better' for a particular family. But the student-mill wouldn't be where I would want my kids to go if I decided I needed to find a good high school in a neighborhood where people walk after dark. I'd want the one two districts over, which is both excellent academically, and offers a wide variety of unique opportunities as well.

Anyhow, I agree that a school with an 'easier-to-educate' population, with engaged parents who value education, etc. will in general be better than one that's not.

I'm just suggesting that when one is buying a house 'for better schools', that you'd benefit from both some real introspection about what matters to you, and a deep look at the schools your kids will be going to (and the ones down the line, if your kids are below high-school level), before you decide where to buy.

It's a big decision, an expensive one, and hard/expensive to fix if at any point down the line you find something's not what you want/need/expect.

c01
01-03-2013, 20:54
we made the decision to do private school, and it does make a difference. I'm not interested in trying to make anyone else believe otherwise, but my kids will stay out of the public school system as long as possible.

+1 agreed

D

.264 magnum
01-07-2013, 22:36
Of course you meant magnet, not magnate.

I couldn't get into either one LOL!

DanaT
01-08-2013, 07:42
Invest your time and money in a private school or home schooling.

Not to stir up controversy, but I do not believe in home schooling.

coastal4974
01-08-2013, 07:53
My gubmint indoctrination center is better than your gubmint indoctrination center. :tongueout:

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq286/whylookhere/Distribute_The_Wealth_zps3b8a1a1f.jpg