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M&P15T
01-04-2013, 13:25
Looking for some good information from the work-out folks of GT.

Every time I get serious about my exercise, which usually consists of about 45-50 minutes of cardio and 25-30 minutes of lifting, I start sleeping less and less.

I normally sleep a healthy 8+ hours a night of blissful and peaceful sleep. But when I start hitting the gym hard, my sleep starts getting harder and harder to come by.

Last night I hit the sack at 9PM, and woke at 3:30 AM, follwing a night of some serious nightmares. This is after about 5 days of working out.

WTH? How do I stop this? How do I get to both work out, and get good, restful sleep?

Viper16
01-04-2013, 13:27
weird...its like the opposite effect on me.

What time do you go working out usually?
When do you last eat something before bed?
Do you eat after working out?
Are you well hydrated before bed?

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 13:29
weird...its like the opposite effect on me.

Which is what I would expect. It only makes sense.

And it's very consistent. Every damn time I really get on it, lack of sleep just kills the momentum I'm building with my over-all health.

cgwahl
01-04-2013, 13:31
When do you normally exercise, at night or in the morning? If at night, either try it in the morning or earlier than normal.

nam02G
01-04-2013, 13:32
I have a tough time getting to sleep if I work out in the evening or late afternoon. No problems if I work out in the morning, so I work out in th morning.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 13:35
When do you normally exercise, at night or in the morning? If at night, either try it in the morning or earlier than normal.

Morning. I work out in the morning. There's this one particular girl half my age that is such a vision, she makes me more motivated, and I work harder.:rofl::rofl:

This morning I did two loads of laundry, hit the gym like a whirl-wind of Arnold proportions, ate twice, cleaned my apartment a bit, and still got to work at 9AM.

But I'm tired and pissed-off, for absolutely no reason...except my lack of sleep.

Maybe my bed sucks? And it makes the muscle soreness wake me up earlier?

And when I wake up, I mean I really wake up. Energy that is just epic. I try to fall back to sleep, but it just won't happen.

OctoberRust
01-04-2013, 13:37
Morning.

This morning I did two loads of laundry, hit the gym liek a whirl-wind of Arnold proportions, and still got to work at 9AM.

But I'm tired and pissed-off, for absolutely no reason...except my lack of sleep.

Maybe my bed sucks? And it makes the muscle soreness wake me up earlier?

....the story of my life. I've worked out religiously since I was 19, I'm 24 now and it still has not gone away. I just learned to deal with it. I know this post won't help you remedy the issue, just letting you know you're not the only one.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 13:42
....the story of my life. I've worked out religiously since I was 19, I'm 24 now and it still has not gone away. I just learned to deal with it. I know this post won't help you remedy the issue, just letting you know you're not the only one.

Right, but I'm 20 years older than you. I need my friggin' sleep to perform well at work.

I feel the additional energy, more drive to perform better in all things in my life, but I need my damn sleep!!!!!!

I'm having some beers right now, in hopes I will sleep in a bit longer tomorrow morning. I doubt it will help.

cgwahl
01-04-2013, 13:48
Could be the bed, but maybe try exercising later in the day and/or do less than you normally do (like half your normal workout).

Just spit-balling though.


Could just be your body thinks you're meant to be a couch spud.

IndyGunFreak
01-04-2013, 13:50
sorry..

IndyGunFreak
01-04-2013, 13:52
Living healthy is a marathon, not a sprint

If you're working out so hard it is having an effect on your attitude, your sleep, etc.. you are not treating your body right and you need to pace yourself.

This is a pretty common thing w/ the "resolutionists" that I see at the gym every year this time. They decide they want to get in shape on 1/1, then they go to the gym, and after not working out all year, they try to do 20 miles on a treadmill.


Then they're gone by the beginning of end of Feb/Beginning of March

IGF

CAcop
01-04-2013, 13:52
If you are doing it in the morning it shouldn't be a problem. Supposedly if you work out w/i 3 hours of bed time it can cause problems. Maybe you need to try doing your work outs at night.

Ian Moone
01-04-2013, 13:54
I think it is the young lady keeping you awake and not the workout.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 13:55
Could be the bed, but maybe try exercising later in the day and/or do less than you normally do (like half your normal workout).

Just spit-balling though, could just be your body thinks you're meant to be a couch spud.

When I was young, I played tennis from 3-8 hours a day, plus loads of biking. I had a major growth spurt at 18, when I finally backed-off playing tennis so much. I grew several inches in less than a year. I used to be able to run a 5 minute mile.

Then the injuries piled-up, knee injury after knee-injury, so I'm focusing on re-building my health towards being able to play tennis to lose weight. I weigh 240 lbs right now, but when I graduated H.S., I weighed 125 lbs. I'm so far over my natural, normal weight, it's sad.

No way I can be a couch-spud. It's just not my normal state. I'm a severe Type A personality, and I think it causes me to push too hard. I really enjoy the gym, I could work-out for hours if I didn't watch the clock to stop myself from doing too much. This morning I set a hard 60 minute limit, and only went a bit over that.

Is that it? Am I pushing too hard?

IndyGunFreak
01-04-2013, 13:56
Good lord I'm making a lot of mistakes today..lol.

Wrong thread, sorry.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 13:59
I think it is the young lady keeping you awake and not the workout.

She is so smoking hot, it is the best motivation.:supergrin::supergrin:

Oh, to be in my 20s again.

Rabbi
01-04-2013, 14:00
It generally has the exact opposite effect on people. Of course the first question is "when" and you might want to change the time.

I would offer this. When people start to excesice they also tend to make some other lifestyle changes. I would take inventory of those as well. That includes other schedule changes, diet changes and supplement changes. It could very well be what you are eating now or supplementing with.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 14:01
You need to pace yourself. Exhausting yourself to the point you are not sleeping right, or where it has an effect on your mental attitude/possible job performance... is totally counter productive.

I'm trying to limit myself to 60 minutes. I'm hoping that will help.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 14:04
It generally has the exact opposite effect on people. Of course the first question is "when" and you might want to change the time.

I would offer this. When people start to excesice they also tend to make some other lifestyle changes. I would take inventory of those as well. That includes other schedule changes, diet changes and supplement changes. It could very well be what you are eating now or supplementing with.

As far as suppliments go, I only use some vita-paks from GNC, and only every 3 days or so. I drink O.J. the other days to keep my immune system good.

My diet only changes in that I am no wheres near as hungry when I'm hitting the gym hard. If I could keep that up for a few moths, I'm sure the weight would just drop off like water, but the lack of sleep just kills me.

This isn't anything new, this happens every time I start getting serious about my health. Then I crash for a few days and lose my momentum. I really, really do not want to lose my momentum this time.

CAcop
01-04-2013, 14:12
An alternative that might help is to do something like day hiking on the weekends. Before my wife and I had our kid we would go on long hikes with a hiking club. 6-9 miles in 3-6 hours depending on the terrain. Even though it was only once a week it helped during the week when I only had time for 30-60 minutes.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 14:17
An alternative that might help is to do something like day hiking on the weekends. Before my wife and I had our kid we would go on long hikes with a hiking club. 6-9 miles in 3-6 hours depending on the terrain. Even though it was only once a week it helped during the week when I only had time for 30-60 minutes.

For me, 240lbs = bad plantar fascitis.

I gotta be careful about my feet until the weight comes off. This is my main drive in exercising: weight loss.

CAcop
01-04-2013, 14:22
For me, 240lbs = bad plantar fascitis.

I gotta be careful about my feet until the weight comes off. This is my main drive in exercising: weight loss.

Then I would say take it easy. Build up to harder workouts. You might be overtraining.

If you have the money a personal trainer might be worthwhile. Preferably with someone with a background in PT.

Which also leads me to getting an Rx for insoles and/or PT. I mangled my ankle a decade ago and a doc rebuilt it a few years ago. Along the way I learned a few things about working out specifically for my issues. Some I had forgotten, others were new.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 14:26
Then I would say take it easy. Build up to harder workouts. You might be overtraining.

If you have the money a personal trainer might be worthwhile. Preferably with someone with a background in PT.

Which also leads me to getting an Rx for insoles and/or PT. I mangled my ankle a decade ago and a doc rebuilt it a few years ago. Along the way I learned a few things about working out specifically for my issues. Some I had forgotten, others were new.

Over-training? Yep, I get to the point where I sleep for a day.

I got the insoles rocking, they keep my feet healthy while I pound it out.

Seems we got ourselves an answer here folks. I need to keep it to a max 60 minutes, maybe less. Gonna be hard, but if what I need to do is back off a bit, we'll see if that's the answer in the next few days.

Yes, I take days off.

GreenDrake
01-04-2013, 14:26
I know it seems odd, but I had the same issue and actually worked on my sleep patterns via tidbits from a dream analysis book. I only read the parts I was interested in, about circadian rhythm and lucid dreaming. It's actually pretty cool to mess around with lucid dreaming and be cognizant that you are in a dream and can affect the dream in your sleep.

I work out hard six days a week, three days cardio, three days circuit and as far as footwear, Vibram Fivefingers are absolutely without a doubt the most comfortable footwear for natural mechanics, as ghey as they look I don't care, they are incredible.

There is also an app called Dream On that may or may not help you. It helps me to this day but I am not sure of overall efficacy for others. Check it out.

cesaros
01-04-2013, 14:35
You're definitely not over-training.

Many are quick to blame over-training, and very very few have ever experienced it.

You're not lifting or performing a sport where even 2 hours could over-train you.

You've most likely got a whole mess of things going on in your body, and working out is bringing them to the surface. You'll need to attack the problems from all angles to fix it. Nutrition is the biggest influence on what you're currently ailing from.

M&P15T
01-04-2013, 14:37
You're definitely not over-training.

Many are quick to blame over-training, and very very few have ever experienced it.

You're not lifting or performing a sport where even 2 hours could over-train you.

You've most likely got a whole mess of things going on in your body, and working out is bringing them to the surface. You'll need to attack the problems from all angles to fix it. Nutrition is the biggest influence on what you're currently ailing from.

I do think over-training is at least part of it. I have had days where sleep is the only thing I can do.

But I will watch my diet, that's an excellent point.

CrazyTrain
01-10-2013, 10:26
Its unusual that exercising worsens your sleep hygiene unless of course you were exercising at night. You've got to work yourself to exhaustion, it can't be a comfortable workout. What I mean by that is if you are on the treadmill, take a backpack and put 10kg in it and change the elevation. Focus on heavy squats and lunges. The workout has to be tough. Working out only improved my sleep when I realized that 30 minutes of walking on the treadmill was selling myself short.

glockdoc21
01-10-2013, 10:53
I have the opposite effect. quality exercise is the best sleep aid. I do think that you might be overtraining. after an hour at the gym (heavy compound movements followed by circuit training with weights) I can hardly stand. if you can do more than an hour you probably need to work harder.

holesinpaper
01-10-2013, 11:19
Looking for some good information from the work-out folks of GT.

Every time I get serious about my exercise, which usually consists of about 45-50 minutes of cardio and 25-30 minutes of lifting, I start sleeping less and less.

I normally sleep a healthy 8+ hours a night of blissful and peaceful sleep. But when I start hitting the gym hard, my sleep starts getting harder and harder to come by.

Last night I hit the sack at 9PM, and woke at 3:30 AM, follwing a night of some serious nightmares. This is after about 5 days of working out.

WTH? How do I stop this? How do I get to both work out, and get good, restful sleep?

FWIW:

Lift 30 to 40 minutes, 3 days per week. Either do a full body workout using super sets, or do a split routine.

Do HIT cardio for 15 minutes 1 day per week. Do 1 day of slow cardio for about 45 minutes. (no cardio on lift days).

Rest for 2 straight days.

Eat a good meal about 2 hours before working out. Eat a few carbs about 30 min before working out. Drink a protein shake right after your workout. Eat a good meal about an hour after working out.

Drink a lot of water.

Figure out your base metabolic rate, and then either eat that amount, a 200-500 calorie surplus or a 200-500 calorie deficit depending on your goal.

Take vitamins (i.e. a good multi vitamin, some fish oil, vit D, etc).

Sleep a lot.

Occasionally take a week off from training.

Try to read a learn a lot. Keep trying new excersices and change up your workout patterns every couple months.

YMMV, trust but verify, I'm still a noob on this subject but made a lot of early mistakes, learned a lot, and eventually gained good results.

Also, if you drink coffee/soda try no caffeine after 3pm or so.

SRS
01-10-2013, 11:35
I do think over-training is at least part of it. I have had days where sleep is the only thing I can do.

A classic sign of overtraining is insomnia not excess sleep. I very much doubt you are suffering from true overtraining, but may be taking things too fast too soon.

Mayhem like Me
01-10-2013, 11:40
A friend gave me a supplement called g8 to try....
Holy crap at half dose it puts me in REM sleep for a solid 7 -8 hours...I am up to a normal dose 20 Minutes before bed and I'm out.

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 11:57
A classic sign of overtraining is insomnia not excess sleep. I very much doubt you are suffering from true overtraining, but may be taking things too fast too soon.

Over-training, as far as I have read, is a medical condition that is the end-state result of intense physical excercise over many days.

Over the last 9 days, I have crushed it at the gym 7 of those days, doing about 80-90 minutes a day of cardio and lifting. Each night I slept less and less, getting down to around 4 hours.

Then I crashed yesterday.

At 7:25PM, I could no longer keep my eyes open, and collapsed into bed. I awoke this morning at 6AM.

I actually went to the gym this morning, but my body just wasn't having it. 30 minutes into my cardio, which was being done at a snail's pace, I realized I needed to stop and rest today. Hell, I probably need to take tomorrow off too.

Oh well, I actually feel fine, even when I'm sleeping less. I still get plenty of REM sleep. I guess this is all just part of trying to work hard at the ripe old age of 43.

Firefightermdc
01-10-2013, 12:01
Sounds like you finally hit your sleep wall so to speak! Try to break up the workouts so that you do cardio on different days than weight training.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 12:07
Sounds like you finally hit your sleep wall so to speak! Try to break up the workouts so that you do cardio on different days than weight training.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

I do it weird. 45-50 minutes of cardio, followed by 30 or so minutes of lifting.

I know, that's weird, right? It's just what works for me.

holesinpaper
01-10-2013, 12:25
I do it weird. 45-50 minutes of cardio, followed by 30 or so minutes of lifting.

I know, that's weird, right? It's just what works for me.

Try not doing it weird, it apparently isn't working for you. :whistling:

Kona2004
01-10-2013, 12:26
I can't imagine getting the amount of sleep you desire. I average about 4 a night during the week and maybe 6 on the weekends. It's not that I have a problem going to sleep but rather there are not enough hours in the day. I'm usually up around 3:30 to take the dog for his daily walk and then hit the gym when they open at 5 for a lift before work. By the time dinner, the kid's activities are wrapped up and they're in bed, it's usually 8:30-9:00, at which time I typically go out for an hour run. After a shower and little time to wind down, it seems like it's already 11:00ish.

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 12:28
Try not doing it weird, it apparently isn't working for you. :whistling:

Sorta yes, sorta no.

Like I said, recently (since I started this thread), I'm feeling fine with sleeping less. My REM sleep has been great, and I feel rested. I think waking up so damn early just freaked me out.

Even today, I feel great. My over-all attitude is much better, and I'm a more calm person when I'm hitting the gym.

Today and tomorrow just need to be days off, then Sat & Sun I'll crush it again.

Landor
01-10-2013, 12:30
Are you taking a pre-workout supplement? If you are it might be stimmed and no stim's should be taken after 6pm. A lot of those pre's have 200 plus mg of caffeine in them. They will keep you up all night. If your workouts are good you just might have a lot to testosterone flowing through you because of it.

Personally I would try working out earlier and stop taking any supp's unless you know for sure what they are and how they will effect you.

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 12:35
Are you taking a pre-workout supplement? If you are it might be stimmed and no stim's should be taken after 6pm. A lot of those pre's have 200 plus mg of caffeine in them. They will keep you up all night. If your workouts are good you just might have a lot to testosterone flowing through you because of it.

Personally I would try working out earlier and stop taking any supp's unless you know for sure what they are and how they will effect you.

I'm anti-stims, don't take any special supplements other than GNC vita-packs for Exteme Performance. And I'm trying to eat healtheir. Good carbs pre work-out, low carbs/high-protein the rest of the day.

I have experimented with different pre work-out meals (I work out at about 6:30AM-8AM) and have found that Honey Nut Cherrios work best for me. Then after my work-out, I have egg-beaters in a nice protein laden 2nd breakfast.

John Rambo
01-10-2013, 12:38
Looking for some good information from the work-out folks of GT.

Every time I get serious about my exercise, which usually consists of about 45-50 minutes of cardio and 25-30 minutes of lifting, I start sleeping less and less.

I normally sleep a healthy 8+ hours a night of blissful and peaceful sleep. But when I start hitting the gym hard, my sleep starts getting harder and harder to come by.

Last night I hit the sack at 9PM, and woke at 3:30 AM, follwing a night of some serious nightmares. This is after about 5 days of working out.

WTH? How do I stop this? How do I get to both work out, and get good, restful sleep?

Vivid dreams are not uncommon. Whether they're dreams of nightmares are up to your mind.

Bad sleep is not uncommon if you work out too soon before bed. When are your workouts?

You mentioned overtraining. If you overtrain, your brain will shut you down. No questions asked. Sounds like you might have a little bit of that going on once in a while.

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 12:41
Vivid dreams are not uncommon. Whether they're dreams of nightmares are up to your mind.

Bad sleep is not uncommon if you work out too soon before bed. When are your workouts?

You mentioned overtraining. If you overtrain, your brain will shut you down. No questions asked. Sounds like you might have a little bit of that going on once in a while.

I work out early morning, 6:30AM-8AM.

Yeah, my brain shut me the hell down last night. I bet it will do it again tonight, and I'm looking forward to it, I absolutely LOVE sleep.

Like I said, I've been feeling really good lately, so I'm no longer too worried about it. If I only sleep 4-5 hours, I still feel fine, and get plenty of REM sleep.

holesinpaper
01-10-2013, 12:47
I have experimented with different pre work-out meals (I work out at about 6:30AM-8AM) and have found that Honey Nut Cherrios work best for me. Then after my work-out, I have egg-beaters in a nice protein laden 2nd breakfast.

Wake up, eat Cheerios and then work out for 1.5 hours? :shocked:

I wake up, drink Whey. Wait 30 min and eat a solid 400 cal breakfast that includes slow digesting carbs (real whole wheat or oats) and about 24 g of real natural protein (eggs and greek yogurt or cottage cheese).

John Rambo
01-10-2013, 12:48
I work out early morning, 6:30AM-8AM.


Hmm, working out probably isn't your problem, then.


Yeah, my brain shut me the hell down last night. I bet it will do it again tonight, and I'm looking forward to it, I absolutely LOVE sleep.


It won't do it multiple nights in a row. It takes constant strongman workouts the likes of which you and I will likely never do for a healthy person to reach CNS fatigue to the point that their body's protective mechanisms kick in. Although, if your diet sucks, you're under the weather, or you're (lightbulb) getting ****ty sleep, you'll develop symptoms much easier. Heres a good read on the subject:
http://www.myosynthesis.com/cns-handle-stress


Like I said, I've been feeling really good lately, so I'm no longer too worried about it. If I only sleep 4-5 hours, I still feel fine, and get plenty of REM sleep.

I don't know of any health experts who would call 4-5 hours of sleep a night healthy without naps during the day. There is likely something going on here. But outside of the workout end of it, I don't know much to give advice about.

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 13:10
Wake up, eat Cheerios and then work out for 1.5 hours? :shocked:

I wake up, drink Whey. Wait 30 min and eat a solid 400 cal breakfast that includes slow digesting carbs (real whole wheat or oats) and about 24 g of real natural protein (eggs and greek yogurt or cottage cheese).

Cheerios are great carbs, and work really well for a pre work-out meal.

Protein is for after my work out, it's too heavy on the stomach for before.

Woofie
01-10-2013, 13:30
Maybe you're a split schedule sleeper. Sleep for a few hours, wake up for an hour or two, then back to sleep for a couple hours. I always thought that I some sort of sleep disorder (still possible), but once I learned my pattern it was a big boost to me psychologically. Instead of lying in bed mad at myself for ruining yet another night of sleep, I've learned to enjoy my quiet relaxation time.

So while I'm not getting any more hours of sleep than I have been, the quality of it is drastically improved. You might also try timing your schedule so that you'll be getting up for the day at the end of a REM cycle instead of in the middle of it.

M&P15T
01-10-2013, 13:34
Maybe you're a split schedule sleeper. Sleep for a few hours, wake up for an hour or two, then back to sleep for a couple hours. I always thought that I some sort of sleep disorder (still possible), but once I learned my pattern it was a big boost to me psychologically. Instead of lying in bed mad at myself for ruining yet another night of sleep, I've learned to enjoy my quiet relaxation time.

So while I'm not getting any more hours of sleep than I have been, the quality of it is drastically improved. You might also try timing your schedule so that you'll be getting up for the day at the end of a REM cycle instead of in the middle of it.

I do not get up in the middle of a REM cycle. I get up when my body time clock says to.

Seriously folks, I'm feeling really, really good. Don't sweat it, and I appreciate all the feed-back.

JAS104
02-19-2013, 11:51
She is so smoking hot, it is the best motivation.:supergrin::supergrin:

Oh, to be in my 20s again.

Girl goes to the gym same time as my does the eliptical while I'm usually doing preacher curls. Doesn't help the bench is faced towards her backside. Before you say anything, its a fixed bench and i didnt orient it.. lol