lots of careless ccw concealing in MI........ [Archive] - Glock Talk

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plumbum2
01-06-2013, 13:37
im not sure what exactly is going on these days but it seems like im noticing A LOT of cpl/ccw'ers not concealing very well lately. maybe its the sudden spike of people getting permits that arent really "into" the whole carry/gun thing? either way i think its sending the wrong message again, about gun owners being careless etc.

im not talking about an enthusiast like myself or others on sites liek this being able to see a little bit of print under a jacket etc. im talking about people with owb holstered guns poking out 2" below a jacket that is to short for a proper conceal job.
besides the element of surprise and all of the other great reasons to have a gun properly concealed. depending on where you are at publicly, with all of the shootings happening lately the wrong person might see it and call the police. rightfully so , they dont know what your all about? anyway. had to vent. i have witnessed 3 diff. situations in the past week alone.

edited to add. i guess i didnt realize that people are partially covering up their weapons and claiming open carry. seems like a bad decision but whatever floats your boat i guess.

Radam3
01-06-2013, 13:58
You do realize we are also an open carry state..?

When I take my dog for a walk I do exactly what you described, owb holster and a sweat shirt that if it doesn't cover completely, I don't care...

All other times, I do my best to be completely concealed.

With being an open carry state, there is nothing legally that stops me.

So maybe you saw me walking my dog... Sorry if the bottom two inches of my holster scared you!

"No more judgement day
Only tranquility
Peace signs, protest lines
Mean nothing to me"

Filhar
01-06-2013, 14:07
Is open carry legal in your state? I usually carry with an open untucked shirt, or with a leather vest. I' m a horse person and dress like it. If the gun is exposed, so what, I' m legal.Never had a problem, and I' d be glad to have the police tell nosy people to mind there own business. I hang out with several LEOs that carry about like I do.

Bill Lumberg
01-06-2013, 14:08
Sloppy is sloppy. Attention seeking (where legal to conceal) and haphazard concealment in urban areas is less than impressive.

plumbum2
01-06-2013, 14:16
radam 3, i honestly never really got into the open carry rules, etc.

i thought it was either one or the other? open carry 100% on the outer most layer of clothing or 100% concealed. not half concealed under an jacket etc?

xmanhockey7
01-06-2013, 16:39
radam 3, i honestly never really got into the open carry rules, etc.

i thought it was either one or the other? open carry 100% on the outer most layer of clothing or 100% concealed. not half concealed under an jacket etc?

No such law. If you have a CPL you can carry openly or concealed unless you are on the premises of a place listed under 28.425o (parking lots not included) then you cannot carry a concealed pistol.

Jason D
01-06-2013, 17:24
Perhaps they just don't care about concealing.

The Fed
01-06-2013, 17:27
Jealous!!

cowboy1964
01-06-2013, 17:57
Either fully OC it or fully CC it. This in between stuff will create nothing but problems.

Just_plinking
01-06-2013, 17:59
im not sure what exactly is going on these days but it seems like im noticing A LOT of cpl/ccw'ers not concealing very well lately. maybe its the sudden spike of people getting permits that arent really "into" the whole carry/gun thing? either way i think its sending the wrong message again, about gun owners being careless etc.

im not talking about an enthusiast like myself or others on sites liek this being able to see a little bit of print under a jacket etc. im talking about people with owb holstered guns poking out 2" below a jacket that is to short for a proper conceal job.
besides the element of surprise and all of the other great reasons to have a gun properly concealed. depending on where you are at publicly, with all of the shootings happening lately the wrong person might see it and call the police. rightfully so , they dont know what your all about? anyway. had to vent. i have witnessed 3 diff. situations in the past week alone

You're an idiot/drama queen.

I conceal my gun. I consider oc tasteless. If someone spots It I don't give a damn, they would have had to be looking for it in the first place.

Gunnut 45/454
01-06-2013, 17:59
plumbum2
So I guess you need to adjust your thought process! OC legal! So don't worry about what others do! Remember the BG's don't worry about holsters. Usually look like the thugs they are! Be thankful so many MI residents are taking control of there own security!:supergrin:

NEOH212
01-06-2013, 18:13
If open carry is legal there who cares if it's concealed?

If it's legal, it's their choice.

steveksux
01-06-2013, 18:24
radam 3, i honestly never really got into the open carry rules, etc.

i thought it was either one or the other? open carry 100% on the outer most layer of clothing or 100% concealed. not half concealed under an jacket etc?

No such law. If you have a CPL you can carry openly or concealed unless you are on the premises of a place listed under 28.425o (parking lots not included) then you cannot carry a concealed pistol.There's no danger as in FL, where open carry is illegal, and you inadvertently expose your pistol, or in this case, just carelessly conceal it.

But seems to me if you do a half assed conceal job like that in a place you have to legally open carry and you could leave yourself open to potential charges of carrying concealed in a 28.425o pistol free zone. You end up at the mercy of the officer's/prosecutors discretion. Jacket would normally be a cover garment. Only you were careless.

I don't think there's much case law regarding OC. You get caught CCing in a 28.425o PFZ, you don't get to claim you were OCing because you were caught because someone caught a glimpse of your pistol, hence it wasn't concealed but open carried.

I think it has to be in plain sight, easily recognizeable. I've seen some argue even IWB may be a potential issue, since only the butt of the pistol shows rather than OWB holster. I think that's unlikely, personally.

For everyone else that may be unaware, in MI there's places where a) possessing a pistol is illegal. Generally no OC. Mostly the same places where b) you cannot carry concealed in MI. As it turns out, an exemption to a) is someone with a CPL.

So you can open carry there only with a concealed pistol license. If they decide you were concealed carrying and inadvertently exposed it, rather than open carrying, you can be in violation of the CC laws.

Randy

davsco
01-06-2013, 18:41
that's the great thing about VA. open carry is generally legal, so if you are generally concealing but accidentally expose, or just want to lose your jacket because it warmed up, no big deal.

plumbum2
01-06-2013, 18:51
You're an idiot/drama queen.

I conceal my gun. I consider oc tasteless. If someone spots It I don't give a damn, they would have had to be looking for it in the first place.


posts like this remind me why i pretty much quit posting here a long time ago..lol. i guess since your into name calling then you must be a complete moron to not like open carry? wtf. lighten up. i never said i didnt agree with open carry or like it.

plumbum2
01-06-2013, 18:56
plumbum2
So I guess you need to adjust your thought process! OC legal! So don't worry about what others do! Remember the BG's don't worry about holsters. Usually look like the thugs they are! Be thankful so many MI residents are taking control of there own security!:supergrin:

i think you might have been watching to many movies to assume that "bad guys" dont use holsters. this is 2012 and a lot of the so called bad guys are more on point than ever....

i know oc is legal and dont have anything against it, just personally its not for me.

plumbum2
01-06-2013, 18:59
i guess one more thing. with all of the stuff going on lately. all it takes is a little argument/tiff/wrong look etc. and the wrong person will call the cops and say you threatened/brandished your pistol and guess what? might not be as easy as walking away unscathed.

dakrat
01-06-2013, 19:01
You do realize we are also an open carry state..?

owned. :rofl:

plumbum2
01-06-2013, 19:06
owned. :rofl:

if you think so? i guess in my world open carry means OPEN CARRY. on the outside of your clothing, not partially concealed.

davsco
01-06-2013, 19:07
i guess one more thing. with all of the stuff going on lately. all it takes is a little argument/tiff/wrong look etc. and the wrong person will call the cops and say you threatened/brandished your pistol and guess what? might not be as easy as walking away unscathed.

very valid point.

plumbum2
01-06-2013, 19:14
very valid point.

i understand that just about everywhere you go has survellience cameras and in that type of situation could be used to prove you brandished/threatened.

but. if their was some sort of a confrontation big or small and just words were exchanged. the person could say you threatened physical harm with your pistol verbally and the camera would at bare minimum show you 2 verbally interacting...... in todays society im pretty sure the store/police wouldnt be backing the store owner

F350
01-06-2013, 21:25
You're an idiot/drama queen.

I conceal my gun. I consider oc tasteless. If someone spots It I don't give a damn, they would have had to be looking for it in the first place.

I ALWAYS conceal my gun, my sidearm/pistol on the other hand is usually carried openly :tongueout:

ss243b
01-06-2013, 21:51
I dont care if 2" of my gun is hanging out or not, my holster looks like a cell phone pouch anyways, i dont open carry in stores because i respect others thoughts, but im not going to buy 10 holsters either to hide it a little better, i have never been asked about it or been looked at funny, and sometimes its easy to tell im carrying, but most people are not going to be looking at you in that much detail, if your not looking for it, you probably wont see it


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Just_plinking
01-06-2013, 21:55
I dont care if 2" of my gun is hanging out or not, my holster looks like a cell phone pouch anyways, i dont open carry in stores because i respect others thoughts, but im not going to buy 10 holsters either to hide it a little better, i have never been asked about it or been looked at funny, and sometimes its easy to tell im carrying, but most people are not going to be looking at you in that much detail, if your not looking for it, you probably wont see it


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)


^ the end. If someone calls the cops, guess what... nothing happens.

You tell them you were legally carrying, show your permit, end of story.

cops know the jig. Do your part and it's a non issue.

Toyman
01-07-2013, 05:01
^ the end. If someone calls the cops, guess what... nothing happens.

You tell them you were legally carrying, show your permit, end of story.

cops know the jig. Do your part and it's a non issue.

Not the cops in the SE part of Michigan. Many people have been harassed for open carry.

md2lgyk
01-07-2013, 06:50
Open carry is legal in WV, but in the 14 years I've lived here I've never seen it. I don't do it (unless I'm in the woods somewhere) but that's just me.

I think you see a lot of printing and accidental exposure (though I've never seen that either) because lots of people new to CCW simply don't know how to, or that you even need to, "dress for the gun."

G26AZ
01-07-2013, 08:56
I ALWAYS conceal my gun, my sidearm/pistol on the other hand is usually carried openly :tongueout:

"this is my weapon, this is my gun . . . .!":supergrin:

Seriously though, unless the guy had somebody following him with a video camera waitig untill they got "oppressed" by the evil LEO types so they could post it on You Tube, then it might just be innocent flashing, an off duty cop, etc. Nothing to worry about if its an open carry state. Just make sure that your weapon is properely concealed and go on about your day.

swanny2369
01-07-2013, 09:50
Not the cops in the SE part of Michigan. Many people have been harassed for open carry.


thats because most cops are ignorant dumbies that dont actually know the law they claim to protect...

swanny2369
01-07-2013, 09:56
Open carry is legal in WV, but in the 14 years I've lived here I've never seen it. I don't do it (unless I'm in the woods somewhere) but that's just me.

I think you see a lot of printing and accidental exposure (though I've never seen that either) because lots of people new to CCW simply don't know how to, or that you even need to, "dress for the gun."


^this

.. it actually takes a while IMO to get the feel for what type of firearm carrys good and what your personally comfortable with vs. whats practical vs. whats concealed vs. whats open and how to dress according.. iv only been carriing daily for a hands of months or so now and feel that im just getting used to being able to naturally conceal my weapon in a manner that it is not "easily visable" .. that being said.. if someone see's it. or it hangs out a bit. i could give a **** less because im 110% within my rights to carry. open or concealed.

"keep calm and carry one"

HoldHard
01-07-2013, 10:04
Take the opposite approach. If you see someone that is oblivious to the fact that their "concealed" weapon is showing, politely mention it to them.

They are usually not aware that a recent movement caused an article of clothing to hang up on their rig.

A polite "your showing" and by pointing to the location of their weapon on your body would help.

I know if I were in that situation, I'd appreciate it....

HH

Gunnut 45/454
01-07-2013, 11:38
plumbum2
Then why do you care if you see someone elses CCW or OC'd weapon. Just move on with your buisness! Why do you care how it looks! It's none of your buisness! Unless they are possing a threat to you or yours move on! Yea I see the movie of life everyday and can spot the low lifes/thugs real easy! Haven't seen ONE use a proper holster yet! They really hate spending money on a holster that cuts into there drug/beer/wine buy money.

HKLovingIT
01-07-2013, 18:15
thats because most cops are ignorant dumbies that dont actually know the law they claim to protect...

C' Mon now. Take each person as they come. You'd want an officer to treat you respectfully as an individual, I'm sure they'd appreciate the same consideration. :wavey:

HKLovingIT
01-07-2013, 18:22
im not sure what exactly is going on these days but it seems like im noticing A LOT of cpl/ccw'ers not concealing very well lately. maybe its the sudden spike of people getting permits that arent really "into" the whole carry/gun thing? either way i think its sending the wrong message again, about gun owners being careless etc.

im not talking about an enthusiast like myself or others on sites liek this being able to see a little bit of print under a jacket etc. im talking about people with owb holstered guns poking out 2" below a jacket that is to short for a proper conceal job.
besides the element of surprise and all of the other great reasons to have a gun properly concealed. depending on where you are at publicly, with all of the shootings happening lately the wrong person might see it and call the police. rightfully so , they dont know what your all about? anyway. had to vent. i have witnessed 3 diff. situations in the past week alone.

edited to add. i guess i didnt realize that people are partially covering up their weapons and claiming open carry. seems like a bad decision but whatever floats your boat i guess.



Well I'm sure we've all made a CCW mistake or wardrobe malfunction or two when new. "Does this G17 go with these Speedos?" :rofl:

Eventually people learn or if it's an open carry state they might just choose to roll that way. Doesn't bother me. I've seen open carry, made concealed carriers and seen a few tweeners. None were cause for concern to me. Just regular folks.

I go to great pains to conceal and mirror check including moving my arms around etc. before I go out the door. I confess when new I didn't always nor did I properly dress around the gun or choose the right gun for the wardrobe some days. I read, asked and learned.

3MagDep
01-07-2013, 18:45
In Michigan as of 1-2-13 there are 355,583 concealed permits. i can tell you that in Wayne County (Detroit Metro area) the Sheriff's dept is processing aprox 100 per day. That is a lot of people with different concepts on carry. Open , semi-concealed, concealed. Each person has to come to grips on how they are going to carry, which is why people may see variations. The public needs to get used to open carry. I see more and more each day. Myself- i deep conceal as " i would hate to need it and not have it rather than have it and need to get to it"

Jason D
01-07-2013, 19:46
Not the cops in the SE part of Michigan. Many people have been harassed for open carry.

The local police chief here was going to make it a point to arrest anyone who had a firearm worn out in the open. Arrests, confiscations, fines, you name it he was going to do that.

It took the AG's office to get him to back down.

3MagDep
01-07-2013, 19:53
And thats why we have a AG that knows the law and a legislature that are not anti-gun. There are some folks that need to be shown the way ( Right Royal Oak?) But the numbers say that we are exercising our 2nd amendment rights and this officers and Chiefs need to know their laws to enforce them or somebody may sue them.

Jason D
01-07-2013, 20:10
I am just happy as hell my local Sheriff is a progun cop.
He does CCW classes in his off time and will sign for the class three fun stuff.

plumbum2
01-07-2013, 20:10
since i havent been following all of the open carry quirks. whats going on with royal oak?

janice6
01-07-2013, 20:20
The gun you see isn't the one you should be afraid of.

SCmasterblaster
01-08-2013, 13:09
Either fully OC it or fully CC it. This in between stuff will create nothing but problems.

So true. I think that half hidden handguns are more likely to get a phone call to the police than a fully-openly carried handgun.

RYT 2BER
01-09-2013, 05:10
Personally I'm wondering if the OP is really overstating.

Here in Florida where cc is much more common and we don't dress anywhere near as heavy, I think in 10 yrs I've never "made" anyone and I'm pretty aware..

Then the OP is saying " all of these people exposing". Sounds a bit hard to imagine to me.

Bill Lumberg
01-09-2013, 06:53
You wouldn't have a clue whether they were or they weren't. And, for the record young Einstein, it's enforce, not protect. No charge. :wavey: thats because most cops are ignorant dumbies that dont actually know the law they claim to protect...

liberty addict
01-09-2013, 09:29
The gun you see isn't the one you should be afraid of.

Correction: The gun you see that isn't pointed at you isn't the one you should be afraid of.

swanny2369
01-09-2013, 11:30
You wouldn't have a clue whether they were or they weren't. And, for the record young Einstein, it's enforce, not protect. No charge. :wavey:

ya ya ya shouldnt judge blah blah blah..

I have alot of friends (as well as a family members) in law enforcement. Although some of them may seem ok. They all share the same natural characteristics too feel as if they hold some 'higher power' over the general population. Sorry if you dont feel I have justifiable means to an end in our disagreement. However as an outsider looking in, it is much easier to see the bigger picture.

That being said, It is NOT always the case, and I do not cast judgement first hand because I understand the math behind thier logic, but dont get it twisted around. Alot of them have no clue what to "enforce" and what not to "enforce" .. and thats just simple nature. I say again, it is NOT always the case. However, it is that way far to often.

RussP
01-09-2013, 12:03
ya ya ya shouldnt judge blah blah blah..

I have alot of friends (as well as a family members) in law enforcement. :rofl:

Font change, color and bold emphasis are not the OP's.

RussP
01-09-2013, 12:15
ya ya ya shouldnt judge blah blah blah..

I have alot of friends (as well as a family members) in law enforcement. Although some of them may seem ok. They all share the same natural characteristics too feel as if they hold some 'higher power' over the general population. Sorry if you dont feel I have justifiable means to an end in our disagreement. However as an outsider looking in, it is much easier to see the bigger picture.

That being said, It is NOT always the case, and I do not cast judgement first hand because I understand the math behind thier logic, but dont get it twisted around. Alot of them have no clue what to "enforce" and what not to "enforce" .. and thats just simple nature. I say again, it is NOT always the case. However, it is that way far to often.I'm going to refer you to a thread in Cop Talk. I will suggest you read my initial post entirely should you choose to comment.What is least understood about being a cop by those not in or close to LE?

Or, what would you like people to know and better understand about 'the job'?

I read so many posts here and on other forums, in comments to news articles, on Facebook that clearly indicate ignorance is at an all time high about what it takes to do the job, why people get into the business, why they stay in, why some get out.

Yeah, there are no simple answers or explanations to any of those and other questions.

But, seriously, what needs to be understood that might lead to better relationships with the public?

If non-LE GT members want to ask questions, serious questions, please do. However, confiscation, donuts, JBT comments are off the table.

There'll be zero tolerance for trolling. Doing so will earn reward-points, not the good kind.

ThanksHave you ever talked to your relatives and friends about this? Do they trust you enough to tell you the truth?

swanny2369
01-09-2013, 13:51
Honestly, I shouldnt need to go out of my way just to find out why someone feels the need to act like complete D-bag. LE or civilian.. Yet again another person lacking to understand the meaning of my previous statements. Bottom line, trust is earned and we only get one first impression. The world is bigger then our own backyard.

AZson
01-09-2013, 17:31
At least they are carrying who cares how concealed it is.

Ryobi
01-09-2013, 17:39
On the Internet, those with no LE experience often support their negative assertions regarding LE with mystical extensive friend/family indirect knowledge of how LE is. It's a recurrent thing. I'm not saying its always that way (wink), but its definitely an Internet trend.

SCmasterblaster
01-09-2013, 18:47
Concealed carry means carry concealed. Gun flashing leads to problems.

RussP
01-09-2013, 19:03
On the Internet, those with no LE experience often support their negative assertions regarding LE with mystical extensive friend/family indirect knowledge of how LE is. It's a recurrent thing. I'm not saying its always that way (wink), but its definitely an Internet trend.That has definitely been my experience over the last 9 years...some, though, are not mystical, just unidentifiable.

SCmasterblaster
01-09-2013, 19:07
Well I'm sure we've all made a CCW mistake or wardrobe malfunction or two when new. "Does this G17 go with these Speedos?" :rofl:

Eventually people learn or if it's an open carry state they might just choose to roll that way. Doesn't bother me. I've seen open carry, made concealed carriers and seen a few tweeners. None were cause for concern to me. Just regular folks.

I go to great pains to conceal and mirror check including moving my arms around etc. before I go out the door. I confess when new I didn't always nor did I properly dress around the gun or choose the right gun for the wardrobe some days. I read, asked and learned.

Seeing a tweener CCWer wouldn't be a big deal to you - a gun carrier. But what about the ordinary citizen? They are the ones who will get on their cell phone and dial 911.

JuneyBooney
01-09-2013, 21:30
You do realize we are also an open carry state..?

When I take my dog for a walk I do exactly what you described, owb holster and a sweat shirt that if it doesn't cover completely, I don't care...

All other times, I do my best to be completely concealed.

With being an open carry state, there is nothing legally that stops me.

So maybe you saw me walking my dog... Sorry if the bottom two inches of my holster scared you!

"No more judgement day
Only tranquility
Peace signs, protest lines
Mean nothing to me"

I agree with you and in other places where you are not supposed to print but it is legal to carry I don't care either. If someone looks hard at me I think they are gay. :rofl:With people wearing baggy clothes etc how many people are carrying that you really never notice? I would guess hundreds. Don't worry about it unless it is one of those "assault weapons" with a lunatic attached. :whistling:

HKLovingIT
01-10-2013, 11:24
Seeing a tweener CCWer wouldn't be a big deal to you - a gun carrier. But what about the ordinary citizen? They are the ones who will get on their cell phone and dial 911.

Could be the case certainly. Depends I guess on the local culture and who did the spotting. Pulling a tweener in the city versus rural area for example.

Hey did we just invent a new GT term? "Tweener" :rofl:

SCmasterblaster
01-10-2013, 11:57
Could be the case certainly. Depends I guess on the local culture and who did the spotting. Pulling a tweener in the city versus rural area for example.

Hey did we just invent a new GT term? "Tweener" :rofl:

Yes, but the term doesn't imply if the partial carry was intentional or not.

PVolk
01-10-2013, 14:50
if you think so? i guess in my world open carry means OPEN CARRY. on the outside of your clothing, not partially concealed.
If a state allows open and concealed carry, then there is no improper in-between. 'Partial concealed' becomes a inconsequential detail/issue.


I am one of these "careless" people you speak of. I mostly carry with my OWB holster (unless I'm wearing shorts) because it's much more comfortable than shoving a Glock down my pants. If I'm also wearing a jacket/coat, then it completely conceals it and nobody crys. If I have on a t-shirt or sweatshirt, then the bottom couple inches are usually exposed. I don't see this as a big deal, because it's legal, and nobody ever notices anyway. I'd probably open carry more often if the general public weren't so affraid at the sight of a firearm, and if the other firearms owners weren't so quick to paint every OCer as an attention seeking activist. So, my shirt "carelessly" covers most of my OWB carry, and I'm fine with it.