Reliable enough for CCW? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MLittle
01-08-2013, 17:24
I own a Colt LW Commander with nearly 1,500 rounds down range. Today I shot 100 flawless fmj 230gr rounds, then shot 50 rounds of 230 gr Speer Gold Dot. All went well until the last two magazines when I experienced one stove pipe per magazine. Obviously, the pistol was quite filthy from the shooting and I didn't clean or lubricate during the range trip. I hoped to shoot all 150 rounds with no issues (it's kind of my final test for carrying)......oh well, guess it wasn't meant to be. The stovepipes were easily cleared, but here is my question..... Would you carry this pistol for defensive purposes? I prefer my pistols to be 100% flawless....but guess that just won't be possible for my Colt. I would expect that with a clean pistol two magazines of defensive ammunition would shoot cleanly without issue....but there will always be a quesition in my mind. I shoot it better than any other pistol I own including Glocks and Sigs.... Would you carry it??

Jay S.
01-08-2013, 17:39
How were the first 1500 rounds? Any issues? Have you had any issues with the magazines in question before? Have you shot this ammo before? Was the gun cleaned and lubed prior to the range session?

fnfalman
01-08-2013, 18:09
Did the pistol started out clean or was it already dirty when you started this run of 150-rds shoot?

Did you stop and examine the stovepipe malfunction to see what might have been the cause? Such as were you rapid firing and maybe slipped your hand hold? Compact M1911s are very sensitive with grip shifting.

Also, no handgun is 100% flawless. Some maybe 99% (I don't even think Glock or HK are that good, but we can pre-suppose), but none will be 100% flawless.

I think that you need to shoot the gun more while simulating under duress because I noticed that many malfunctions are not gun or ammo related but shooter's induced (i.e. shifting grips or thumbs hitting various levers, etc.).

MLittle
01-08-2013, 18:16
How were the first 1500 rounds? Any issues? Have you had any issues with the magazines in question before? Have you shot this ammo before? Was the gun cleaned and lubed prior to the range session?


First couple of hundred rounds I had quite few failures to go into battery....normal I think because of break-in. Then next 1,000 rounds flawless. I made the mistake of changing out the flgr for a shortened gi rod and spring and had some instances when the slide locked open with a round still in the magazine. Went back to the flgr and had the failureI I mentioned above. The pistol has never been reliable like a Glock or my Sig.... The pistol was cleaned and lubed prior to my range trip today and I was using a new Wilson 47d magazine. I've shot the Gold Dot without issue before. It's frustrating in that I want the pistol to work, but I'm reaching the point now where I'm debating whether to even keep it. I don't have safe queens.....I carry all the pistols in my safe.

faawrenchbndr
01-08-2013, 18:25
I'd carry it.........

B.Reid
01-08-2013, 18:37
It could just be shooter fatigue after 120+ rounds. Limp wristing can cause that failure.

MrMurphy
01-08-2013, 18:38
The original 1911 test, the Colt ran six thousand rounds without stoppages or failures.

That was with ball.

If you ran a thousand rounds through it with minor issues breaking in, nothing unusual I'd say.

If the gun starts out clean and lubed and you shoot 60-80 rounds of the hollowpoint you intend to carry it with and have no failures (hiccups, bobbles, hesitations, nothing) then I'd be fine with it.

1911s can be highly reliable, but the looser and closer to the original spec they, are typically the more reliable they run.

Jay S.
01-08-2013, 18:47
First couple of hundred rounds I had quite few failures to go into battery....normal I think because of break-in. Then next 1,000 rounds flawless. I made the mistake of changing out the flgr for a shortened gi rod and spring and had some instances when the slide locked open with a round still in the magazine. Went back to the flgr and had the failureI I mentioned above. The pistol has never been reliable like a Glock or my Sig.... The pistol was cleaned and lubed prior to my range trip today and I was using a new Wilson 47d magazine. I've shot the Gold Dot without issue before. It's frustrating in that I want the pistol to work, but I'm reaching the point now where I'm debating whether to even keep it. I don't have safe queens.....I carry all the pistols in my safe.

I'd carry it. Just as Mr.Murphy said, if you can put 50 or so rounds of your preferred carry hollow points through it without any malfunctions I'd consider it good.

Steel Head
01-08-2013, 19:35
It could just be shooter fatigue after 120+ rounds. Limp wristing can cause that failure.

Kinda my thinking.

Mad Ryan
01-08-2013, 20:16
First couple of hundred rounds I had quite few failures to go into battery....normal I think because of break-in. Then next 1,000 rounds flawless. I made the mistake of changing out the flgr for a shortened gi rod and spring and had some instances when the slide locked open with a round still in the magazine. Went back to the flgr and had the failureI I mentioned above. The pistol has never been reliable like a Glock or my Sig.... The pistol was cleaned and lubed prior to my range trip today and I was using a new Wilson 47d magazine. I've shot the Gold Dot without issue before. It's frustrating in that I want the pistol to work, but I'm reaching the point now where I'm debating whether to even keep it. I don't have safe queens.....I carry all the pistols in my safe.

There's a couple things you can check. Usually I look at the Firing Pin Stop first on any stock gun. They're almost always undersize and that allow the extractor to clock. It's a $15 part for the EGW oversize one and they're relatively easy to fit. Any smith can do it. That'll solve all sorts of weird problems. You'll probably need to get the extractor tension touched up after that but then you'll be amazed at how consistent the pistol is afterward.

Every stock production gun I've handled could benefit from this, as well as some minor truing polishing of the breech face, which will usually happen as you shoot anyway. That could be why you had a few FTFs right at the outset. I don't know what your extractor hook looks like but a bit of polishing/radiusing there may be in order.

Fiddling with 1911's is fun and once they're dialed in they'll run really well.

dakrat
01-08-2013, 21:00
I own a Colt LW Commander with nearly 1,500 rounds down range. Today I shot 100 flawless fmj 230gr rounds, then shot 50 rounds of 230 gr Speer Gold Dot. All went well until the last two magazines when I experienced one stove pipe per magazine. Obviously, the pistol was quite filthy from the shooting and I didn't clean or lubricate during the range trip. I hoped to shoot all 150 rounds with no issues (it's kind of my final test for carrying)......oh well, guess it wasn't meant to be. The stovepipes were easily cleared, but here is my question..... Would you carry this pistol for defensive purposes? I prefer my pistols to be 100% flawless....but guess that just won't be possible for my Colt. I would expect that with a clean pistol two magazines of defensive ammunition would shoot cleanly without issue....but there will always be a quesition in my mind. I shoot it better than any other pistol I own including Glocks and Sigs.... Would you carry it??

its your life, who cares what anybody thinks is safe enough?

Ruggles
01-08-2013, 22:02
I would carry it. Honestly I have never thought 2000 round torture test or whatever they are called prove much with a CCW. A CCW handgun is not going to see that many rounds between cleaning in real use. Maybe 2-3 mags and that would be it in the real world.

Mad Ryan
01-08-2013, 22:34
Yeah, unless you're gonna be carrying it in the sandbox or something trying to gauge reliability with it filthy and nasty is sorta pointless.

I grease my TRP up with TW-25B and call it good.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-08-2013, 23:03
No.

My Taurus 1911 has occassional hiccups. I wouldn't carry it either. Just a range fun gun.

In the flawless category for me are my:
Beretta 92
Beretta 92 compact
Glock 26
S&W 642

Almost flawless, and now trusted
Glock 17 (1 hiccup first session, fine for the next couple thousand)

On the reformed category that I had to fix and now trust
Kahr PM9
Ruger LCP

I think that pretty much is the list of guns fit for my carry needs. Wife's EMP and XD are probably good to go for me, but I haven't shot them much to really know for sure, although they have been fine for my wife. Her 637 has a lock, and I guess I'd carry it in a pinch, but don't need to :)

MLittle
01-09-2013, 10:12
Did the pistol started out clean or was it already dirty when you started this run of 150-rds shoot?

Did you stop and examine the stovepipe malfunction to see what might have been the cause? Such as were you rapid firing and maybe slipped your hand hold? Compact M1911s are very sensitive with grip shifting.

Also, no handgun is 100% flawless. Some maybe 99% (I don't even think Glock or HK are that good, but we can pre-suppose), but none will be 100% flawless.

I think that you need to shoot the gun more while simulating under duress because I noticed that many malfunctions are not gun or ammo related but shooter's induced (i.e. shifting grips or thumbs hitting various levers, etc.).

The pistol was clean and ready to shoot when I went to the range. I actually mistated the malfunction....it wasn't a stovepipe. Actually what happened was that the last or next to last round was caught nose up jammed in the action. I simply pulled the slide back, turned the pistol over and let the round drop to the ground.

I do know that any pistol can malfunction although I do have Sigs and Glocks that have thousands of rounds through them without one. But.....I usually don't shoot 150 rounds at a time......and this malfunction did happen at the very end of my range trip. It was also very easy to clear....

In the past when the Colt has malfunctioned it always seems to be at the end of my shooting of 100-150 rounds.....not at the beginning. I actually do feel pretty confident that it would function flawlessly for the first 50 rounds in a defensive situation. It's just that I expect perfection..... Maybe I expect too much.

MLittle
01-09-2013, 10:16
I'd carry it.........


Thanks a lot! That is exactly the kind of response I was looking for.... I know it's my life at stake if I ever have the occasion to use my handgun....but I was just wanting to get a feel for what other folks expect from pistols....

MLittle
01-09-2013, 10:27
No.

My Taurus 1911 has occassional hiccups. I wouldn't carry it either. Just a range fun gun.

In the flawless category for me are my:
Beretta 92
Beretta 92 compact
Glock 26
S&W 642

Almost flawless, and now trusted
Glock 17 (1 hiccup first session, fine for the next couple thousand)

On the reformed category that I had to fix and now trust
Kahr PM9
Ruger LCP

I think that pretty much is the list of guns fit for my carry needs. Wife's EMP and XD are probably good to go for me, but I haven't shot them much to really know for sure, although they have been fine for my wife. Her 637 has a lock, and I guess I'd carry it in a pinch, but don't need to :)

Well, I respect your point of view also......in fact I'm really in your camp. I have a Sig P220 (3,200 rounds and current edc), Glock 26 (3,000 rounds), Glock 30sf (2,400 rounds) that have all been flawless......never a failure from the first magazine. Unfortunately.....none of them feel or shoot like my Colt Commander.

fnfalman
01-09-2013, 10:35
The pistol was clean and ready to shoot when I went to the range. I actually mistated the malfunction....it wasn't a stovepipe. Actually what happened was that the last or next to last round was caught nose up jammed in the action. I simply pulled the slide back, turned the pistol over and let the round drop to the ground.

So, the round was stripped from the mag but didn't quite make it into the chamber? Could be a feed ramp issue or a mag issue.


In the past when the Colt has malfunctioned it always seems to be at the end of my shooting of 100-150 rounds.....not at the beginning. I actually do feel pretty confident that it would function flawlessly for the first 50 rounds in a defensive situation. It's just that I expect perfection..... Maybe I expect too much.

Next time when you go out blasting, bring a friend. That way when the gun started to malfunction like this at the end of the string, give it to the other shooter and see if he/she would have the same issue.

Colt M1911s may not be the ne plus ultra when it comes to reliability when it gets dirty, but it can go for more than a mere 150-rds before it needs cleaning. I can't remember the last time I cleaned any of my Colts (I know, I know, bad me).

I'm still thinking of shooter's fatigue. One can blast through 150-rds pretty quick if it's just bang-bang-bang-bang-bang away. If you practice with combat style/defensive shooting techniques then it may be that you'd be more tired at the end of the string than just simply standing there and banging away rounds down range.