Might be benching the 27 in favor of a Kahr PM40... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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JrFreak
01-11-2013, 17:04
Glock will never make a single stack 40, and since I love my PM9 and the PM40 is the same size I think I'm going to switch.

I don't like to carry my 27 iwb. Too thick. Iwb carry with my PM9 is real comfy. I usually carry the 9 in the warmer months and the 27 in colder. The PM40 would probably be the year-around firearm then.

Anyone else make this change? Any cons other than capacity you can think of? Price maybe?

Caver 60
01-11-2013, 22:40
I don't own any Glocks. I know that's heresy around here, but that's just me.

I've got both a PM9 and a PM40. I'd advise shooting a PM40 before making the purchase, if possible. Mine is about 5 or 6 years old, so probably Kahr has corrected things. But I had three problems with my old PM40.

First I have 5 five round mags and 5 six round mags. The five rounders have always been reliable. The six round ones not so reliable. I made a mag modification and now the six round ones are also reliable.

Also the pistol would break mag followers like crazy. Kahr sent me a fist full of new followers along with a story about a defective bunch of mag followers and said the new ones would fix the problem. I put a new mag follower in one mag and fired a mag of ammo. When I withdrew the empty mag there was a big scar across the face of the mag follower.

A little investigation revealed the barrel feed ramp, rear edge was striking the follower. I preformed the Kahr version of the old P3AT rampectomy. No more problem. I'm pretty sure a few years ago I read over on the Kahr forum that they had fixed that problem. They may have fixed the six round mag problem also.

The last problem is probably unique to me. I've heard a couple of guys complain about it over the years, on the Kahr forum. But most said they didn't have this problem. The trigger guard pounds the stuffing out of the bottom of my trigger finger.

I don't consider the recoil from the Kahr 40 to be all that bad. I've shot a lot of heavier recoiling handguns and I consider the PM9 to be a pleasure to shoot. But for some reason my trigger finger suffers when I shoot the 40. For range time, I either have to wear a thin glove or put a band aid, pad side down, on my trigger finger. As a result I don't spend as much range time with the 40 as I'd like to. Like I said it's probably just me.

Other than that it's a great pistol. I still carry and use it.

ETA Some holsters will work with both pistols. But the PM40 is just enough different in size from the PM9 that several holsters, especially form fitting kydex ones, will not work interchangeably. So you may have to buy a new holster or two.

hogship
01-11-2013, 23:59
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1401653/306541735.jpg
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL431/781008/1401653/392973217.jpg

I have the Kahr MK40, and it's been a regular ccw since about 2005. It's a little heavier than the PM40, and handles the cartridge a little better because of it. 5 and 6rd magazines all work fine in mine, and it's been perfect for reliability.

I wouldn't trade mine for a PM version, but if I were buying one, I'd probably go with the PM.

ooc

klt1986
01-12-2013, 06:32
Got a friend with a PM40 and I will admit that it is accurate, easy to shoot for a small pistol, and has an awesome trigger. However, I've never seen a pistol with so many malfunctions from several different experienced shooters. This particular pistol has well over 250 rounds through it. His is on its way back to Kahr for the 3rd time.

SDGlock23
01-12-2013, 07:49
I love the G27, but ended up buying a Kahr CM40 because I wanted something that I could truly slip into my pocket and the G27 wasn't going to do that. It's been absolutely reliable and it's very accurate for such a small gun. Recoil isn't bad either.

I've had the PM9 and PM40 and I can tell you I'm every bit as satisfied with the CM40 (and I did have a CM9 too...also very nice) as I was the PM40, and quite a bit of cost difference. I carry it in a Remora pocket holster and keep an extra 6 rd extended mag in my other pocket just in case, for 12rds total.

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/5518/cm40121512.jpg

M&P15T
01-12-2013, 08:45
Glock will never make a single stack 40, and since I love my PM9 and the PM40 is the same size I think I'm going to switch.

Since there is next to no difference in performance between 9MM and .40S&W, why would you bother to spend the money?

JrFreak
01-21-2013, 11:24
Since there is next to no difference in performance between 9MM and .40S&W, why would you bother to spend the money?

No difference? Then why have so many law enforcement switched to the .40? From what I understand, not many use 9mm even when the ammo was cheaper.

M&P15T
01-21-2013, 12:03
No difference? Then why have so many law enforcement switched to the .40? From what I understand, not many use 9mm even when the ammo was cheaper.

Don't miss-quote me, I posted "NEXT to no difference", not "NO difference".

LEO switched because there is a bit better performance through windshields and other barriers. Now, LEOs are switching back to 9MM based on the fact that the performance differences are slight, and 9MM costs a lot less.

When you're debating between 9MM, .40S&W and .45ACP, you're splitting hairs.

SouthernRaider
01-21-2013, 12:12
Any cons other than capacity you can think of?

Going from a real combat pistol (glock) that is cut down for ccw to one designed to take the place of a j-frame as a deep conceal ccw (kahr).

Not a con per se but it is a different class of weapon IMO.

jdeere_man
01-21-2013, 12:21
Since there is next to no difference in performance between 9MM and .40S&W, why would you bother to spend the money?

oh lord lets not turn this into a caliber war.

I just ordered a PM9 for basically the same reasons the OP is considering the PM40. i'm on the 9mm platform so I went that route. If I was into 40s&w I would have went that way. I have enough calibers right now without adding 40 to the mix though. I'm anxious to get mine. I primarily carry the g26 now. I dont know if the PM9 will replace the G26 or compliment it.

klt1986
01-21-2013, 12:29
Got a friend with the PM40 and I really like these little pistols. However, I have never seen a pistol with so many malfunctions by several different experienced shooters. His is on it's way back to Kahr for the 3rd time. I will be interested to see what they do to it this time.

NEOH212
01-21-2013, 12:36
Before you do that, check out a Sig 239. Single stack .40 and a hell of a lot better that a poly pistol.

SouthernRaider
01-21-2013, 12:42
Before you do that, check out a Sig 239. Single stack .40 and a hell of a lot better that a poly pistol.

Sig 239 is a world class ccw, but it'll carry about like a baby glock.

The high end j frames are hard to beat if you want a 5 shot pocket rocket. New ones are easier to shoot IMO

NEOH212
01-21-2013, 12:56
Sig 239 is a world class ccw, but it'll carry about like a baby glock.

The high end j frames are hard to beat if you want a 5 shot pocket rocket. New ones are easier to shoot IMO

I must admit that I still really like the Glock 27 and the HK P2000sk.

Anymore though, I find myself gravitating to the metal guns when I'm looking for a smaller single stack.

For me, they handle better and and I find I shoot more accurately with them.

SouthernRaider
01-21-2013, 13:06
I must admit that I still really like the Glock 27 and the HK P2000sk.

Anymore though, I find myself gravitating to the metal guns when I'm looking for a smaller single stack.

For me, they handle better and and I find I shoot more accurately with them.

I'm in the camp that these newer small autos fall in the same class as .380's......something you carry when you can't carry a gun. Sure they pack more punch, but are a serious compromise....... a less reliable j-frame for the most part.


A G27 or 239 isn't in the same discussion.

Fallout
01-21-2013, 14:51
I bought a CM40 back in October,

I am issued a G22 and a G27 and carry the 27 daily. But in the summer time I was looking for something smaller to carry when running around while off duty. The CM40 is only slightly thinner than a 27, but the length of the slide is about 1/2 inch shorter.

Couple of issues I have found. My gun was manufactured in July of 2012. The PM/CM40's are notorious for breaking magazine followers. It was supposedly fixed earlier in the year but my later production gun still did it. I removed some material off the end of the feed ramp myself to alleviate the problem. Kahr sent replacement followers pretty quickly.

I have large hands, when I first started shooting the gun I found that it was painful to shoot it much without a hogue slip over grip with a finger groove. Seemed to solve the problem.

I have had problems adjusting to the Kahr Trigger. I put usually 1-2k rounds a year through my Glocks and the muscle memory of utilizing the trigger reset for quick follow up shots is hard to not do now. When trying to shoot rapid fire drills I find myself short stroking the trigger.

I am far less accurate with my kahr than any of my glocks. I can hit center mass at 25 yards all day long with my 27. With my kahr it is more like 10 yards before my groups start getting a little large. Again I think this has more to do with the different style of trigger than anything else.

I havent had any issues with reliability with this gun. It has been flawless for 300 rounds. Gun still functioned with broken magazine followers.

Would I do it all over again and buy one again? Probably but if I had to pick one over the other it would be my Glock.

RGbiker
01-21-2013, 15:18
I don't shoot .40S&W.

Having said that, I own Glock and Sig and have owned two Kahr handguns - a MK9 and a P380. Both required a break in period, were ammo sensitive and often had FTF issues.

I sold both.

IMO, look elsewhere for a single stack .40. As mentioned above, the Sig P239-40 is a good shooter.

barth
01-21-2013, 15:25
Glock will never make a single stack 40, and since I love my PM9 and the PM40 is the same size I think I'm going to switch.

I don't like to carry my 27 iwb. Too thick. Iwb carry with my PM9 is real comfy. I usually carry the 9 in the warmer months and the 27 in colder. The PM40 would probably be the year-around firearm then.

Anyone else make this change? Any cons other than capacity you can think of? Price maybe?

On a belt you may want to consider the stainless steel Kahr's.
My MK40 Elite is sweet and handles the 40 easily.
I got it for pocket carry.
On a belt a K40 might have been a better choice.
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/thumbnail/photo38/ef/00/0b55981da098__1339359104000.jpeg?tw=0&th=720&s=true&rs=false

Wurger
01-21-2013, 19:53
I have a G26, G27, CM9 and LCP. Started with the G26, went to the G27 for .40 S&W. Got the LCP for the times when I couldn't easily carry the G27. Ended up buying the CM40 to use the times I would normally use the LCP except for a few occasions. Happy for this setup as it is now. I use all three regularly. Often I have two of the three on me.

The CM9 would be a little easier to carry/conceal but I'm happy with the CM40.

The .40 has a marked increase in ft-lbs when you use full power loads like Winchester PDX 165gr or Remington GS. I also use 9mm Federal HS when I carry something like the CZ75B under winter clothing so I'm not exclusive to the .40 but I do like the parameters it presents. Each to their own.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-21-2013, 20:20
Anyone else make this change? Any cons other than capacity you can think of? Price maybe?

I have a 26 and PM9. Both good for what they do, but head to head the 26 is superior.

Aside from capacity, I think most would agree the Glock is more reliable. More smooth to chamber a round, especially from a fresh mag. Also easier to grip and rack the slide. Increased sight radius, too. Spare mags hold the rounds tighter.

Not saying the Kahr is bad at all. It is a great gun, actually. But there are tradeoffs to get that small size.

___________
I joined the NRA, have you yet?

Caver 60
01-21-2013, 20:43
I bought a CM40 back in October,

Couple of issues I have found. My gun was manufactured in July of 2012. The PM/CM40's are notorious for breaking magazine followers. It was supposedly fixed earlier in the year but my later production gun still did it. I removed some material off the end of the feed ramp myself to alleviate the problem. Kahr sent replacement followers pretty quickly.



Interesting that you confirm my post number two about the magazine follower problem that I had several years ago. Seems like Kahr should have fixed such a problem by now. Especially when the fix would be so simple to accomplish at the factory, rather than putting up with the bad publicity.