Glock 21 = worst Glock, according to Larry Vickers...

[mr00jimbo]

Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

[Keyhole]

Love it.

[skew12]

The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

[nipperwolf]

Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

Thread Fail without a link. :upeyes:

[mrsurfboard]

In the world of 45acp, there are lots of great choices other then Glock.

[mrsurfboard]

The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

Yeah maybe 10 years ago, now, not so much.

[awpk03s]

I love my Gen4 21. How's it the 'worst Glock'? My pistol is reliable, accurate, fits my hand great, yada yada yada.

[HAMMERHEAD]

Maybe he has an axe to grind with Glocks like Dean Spier.

[faawrenchbndr]

The farther you stray from the G17...............:whistling:

[B_RAD]

We all (most of us at least do) know Larry Vickers resume. When he says something I believe it. However, he had a part in the development of the HK45C IIRC. So, when it comes to his opinion on polymer .45 I think he's always going to favor the HK over the G21. Most folks that I know that have had or at least fired both agree w/him. That doesn't mean the G21 is trash, just means he believes there are better options out there.


My personal opinion, which means nothing in the real world, is that the best Glock is the G19 or the G17. The only reason I waste my time by giving my opinion is becuase I'm guessing that one reason Mr. Vickers may have said the G21 is the worst is due to the Glock being designed around the 9mm. Some feel that the Glock is best in the 9mm platform.

Just my $0.02

[FLIPPER 348]

Your thoughts?





Who cares what that wind-bag Vickers says.

[CMG]

Paid spokes-pukes rarely offer an objective view of things.

[crazymoose]

He's simply stating that he's seen a higher ratio of problem guns to good guns than in other models. I have no reason to disbelieve him, given how some large departments have dumped the 21. Having said that, I have a Gen4 21 that I fully intend to keep and keep shooting.

And while he did consult for H&K on the HK45 (along with Hackathorn), he was the first to criticize the production model when it came out. H&K had made some last-minute changes to the production model, and he wasn't happy. If memory serves, he disliked the Spider Man grip of the full size guns (both pre-production models have the more conventional grips of the 45C), and the triggers on the production models were considerably worse than the triggers on the pre-production guns.

[Kozel]

I have one of oldest G21s there is. Bought shortly after they were available to buy. All these years it did not jammed once. I cannot even say that about my old HK USP! It jammed once on Russian steel cased ammo.

[Sharky7]

My Glock 21 is 100% reliable. We have had a few guys have issues though with their tac lights. Biggest issue with the Glock 21 to me is that it has the ergonomics of a 2X4.

[Rooster Rugburn]

Maybe he has an axe to grind with Glocks like Dean Spier.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[byf43]

I have NO complaints about my G21!!!!!!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/CupG-21cropped.jpg

[Diesel McBadass]

vickers has no ax to grind with glock, he said he loves the g1/19 and considers them the finest 9mms made.

[T-Rod45]

My Gen3 21SF was my first Glock, and my favorite, until I picked up a Gen4 23... It's such a soft shooter, even with hotter loads, and I've had zero issues in 1300+ rounds. It's been retired to the safe for the past 2 years, as I've been shooting more 9/40, but I can't say I'll ever get rid of it. For a full size .45, I can't find a damn thing wrong with it...

[bac1023]

Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

My thought is that this thread should be in General Glocking where it belongs.

Not here...

[furioso2112]

A G21 might be the best Glock in others' estimates.

[bac1023]

A G21 might be the best Glock in others' estimates.

Not mine

I only really like them in 9mm. I don't mind the 357 Sig and 10mm models either, but I'll pass on the others.

[countrygun]

vickers has no ax to grind with glock, he said he loves the g1/19 and considers them the finest 9mms made.



He has also been good in the praise department for the G-20
(which is a bit strange if he doesn't like the 21), could be that the G-20 is the best platform of it's type that you can get the 10mm in, but he thinks there are better ones for the .45.

maybe he meant it exactly as he said it????

[FLIPPER 348]

I wonder if Mr Vickers, while conducting classes, wears plates in his 5.11 pants to protect from excessive leg-humping??

[fnfalman]

Vickers is probably right. There's a reason why I have a G20SF but no G21 and it's because the G21 suck!!!

[ArmoryDoc]

Who cares what that wind-bag Vickers says.

Didn't you vote for Obama ?

[Big Mad Dawg]

Didn't you vote for Obama ?

Yes he did and trust me a liberal from Bend Oregon is no friend to the shooting sport.

The leg humping comment was particularly classy.

[ArmoryDoc]

Then what the heck is someone like FLIPPER doing criticizing Larry Vickers who is respected and well known for being credible ?

[Scrappy]

So whats his reason for saying its the worst Glock?
Never heard anyone that has one have nothing but praise for it.
Holds 13 rds and is very accurate, more so then a G19 or any other Glock besides the G30.
I don't own a G21 but do have a G30 and its the most accurate Glock I have ever had and I have had a lot of them. It has also been 100% flawless and did not cost anywhere near $1K!
If someone has small hands, well then its not the Gun for them.

[NEOH212]

The G21 isn't bad but I never liked it. The grip sucks even on the SF model. It's way too fat and it's clunky in it's cycling.

If it works for you great! There is better though. I couldn't get rid of the one I had fast enough.

Glock in general....:yawn:

[Baba Louie]

Gotta ask, when exactly DID, LAV make that G21 statement and exactly how was it worded?

Was it a comparison to Glocks 9mm and/or .40s?
Was it the unsupported chamber situation?
Was it the initial light rail that was less than stellar when a light was mounted? (who knew the dynamics of the action would be affected, eh Gaston?)
Was it when he was under HK contract?
When compared to, what other .45?

Does it matter what any high speed low dragster says or writes and will everyone always agree?

I'm sure, from his perspective, based on his experience, he is right... for him. Maybe others as well. He has BTDT a few times around the block. Good to know he too has strong opinions. But in the end... his advice is worth what you pay for (and for some, it would be a great learning experience to pay him for some of his knowledge and experience)

[Arc Angel]

Prolly because of G-21 issues like: (1) the old SPORADICALLY defective #4256 trigger bars, (2) the minimal, 'Modified Browning Lockup', (3) the high number of these Glocks with excessive chamber rebates and (4) an increased, 'kaBoom!' factor.

[SiGlockBoy]

Got my 1st 21 in the mid 90s and have never had one issue with it. It has been a very nice shooting and fairly accurate gun. Only complaint is that it is a little large for my hand.

I won't compare it to a 1911 though as there just isn't much of a comparison.

Now if I could have my 36 in a 21 size, I would be a happy. That grips is stellar.

[G26S239]

I like mine. Back in 2000 when I got it I had never heard of Vickers. In 1982 when I bought my first 1911 I had never heard of Jeff Cooper. Not having experts to guide my gun purchases does not seem to have had any adverse affect on my life.

[fnfalman]

I like mine. Back in 2000 when I got it I had never heard of Vickers. In 1982 when I bought my first 1911 I had never heard of Jeff Cooper. Not having experts to guide my gun purchases does not seem to have had any adverse affect on my life.

So you don't want to have a Ludus Costa super dooper AR15?

[Green Dragoon]

and it's clunky in it's cycling.


:yawn:

I agree. Plus, my ambi mag release on my 21SF fell apart.

I traded her in for an HK45

[countrygun]

Then what the heck is someone like FLIPPER doing criticizing Larry Vickers who is respected and well known for being credible ?


Given Flipper's ability to judge political candidates, I am going to have to move my opinion of Larry Vickers up a notch.

[fnfalman]

Flipper's candidate won the POTUS...again.

Sounds to me like he backed a winner.

My candidate lost but at least we Libertarians are equanimity in defeat instead of being sore losers.

[countrygun]

Flipper's candidate won the POTUS...again.

Sounds to me like he backed a winner.

My candidate lost but at least we Libertarians are equanimity in defeat instead of being sore losers.

Yah, look at how they handled losing the Republican primary,

:upeyes::rofl::rofl:

I have to beak up you hump session on Flipper's leg, but a gun owner who would vote for Obama has very little room to talk about a professional writer's credibility.

[fnfalman]

Yah, look at how they handled losing the Republican primary,

:upeyes::rofl::rofl:

They went on with their lives instead of crying for months on end. Get over it. Your side lost.

I have to beak up you hump session on Flipper's leg, but a gun owner who would vote for Obama has very little room to talk about a professional writer's credibility.

I could say the same about gun owners who voted for Mr. Gun Ban Romney.

[glock2740]

Get over it. Your side lost.
.
Either you were for obama or you were against him. By saying that "your side lost", due to obama winning, makes you look like a fool. As, were you not, by your own admission, voting for the Libertarian party to win against obama? :upeyes: And anyone who voted for obama and claims to be a "gun person", needs to be the first to set a good example for the rest of us, and go straight down to their local authorities and turn in all of their weapons and ammunition.

[oldman11]

Well if the poor baby can't handle it, that's his problem.

[glock2740]

As for Larry Vickers' comments on the G21, I've never heard him say anything but pure positive about Glocks in general. Maybe he just doesn't like the G21. I'm a huge Glock fan, but the G21 has never appealed to me either.

[M&P15T]

My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

[DFin]

My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

Yeah really. As if anyone is going to ditch their 21's because of what he thinks or says.

[fnfalman]

Either you were for obama or you were against him. By saying that "your side lost", due to obama winning, makes you look like a fool. As, were you not, by your own admission, voting for the Libertarian party to win against obama? :upeyes:

I voted for the Libertarian Party because I believed Gary Johnson to be the best POTUS candidate and not because he's a Third Partyer or whatever.

And anyone who voted for obama and claims to be a "gun person", needs to be the first to set a good example for the rest of us, and go straight down to their local authorities and turn in all of their weapons and ammunition.

Why did "gun persons" vote for that gun banning Romney? If Romney had won, then these "gun persons" would have started to line up the block to turn their guns and ammo into the local authorities as well?

You Romney supporters make me laugh with all the pretension that somehow Romney is a pro-gunner.

[fnfalman]

My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

Be careful now. Some GTers will come up and pit Vickers' credentials against yours and tell you how stupid you are for not following an industry expert's advices and recommendations.:rofl:

[M&P15T]

Be careful now. Some GTers will come up and pit Vickers' credentials against yours and tell you how stupid you are for not following an industry expert's advices and recommendations.:rofl:

I've made it clear a few times how much I care about the advice and recommendation of "industry exprets".

[glock2740]

I voted for the Libertarian Party because I believed Gary Johnson to be the best POTUS candidate and not because he's a Third Partyer or whatever.



Why did "gun persons" vote for that gun banning Romney? If Romney had won, then these "gun persons" would have started to line up the block to turn their guns and ammo into the local authorities as well?

You Romney supporters make me laugh with all the pretension that somehow Romney is a pro-gunner.
I was a "Romney supporter", because I wanted obama's ass out of the White House. Period. Also, a vote for a third party canidate, especially in this past Presidential election, was a wasted vote. Period. I would have voted for an empty soup can and a dog turd on the sidewalk over what we had and unfortunately still have, in the oval office. You third party supporters make me laugh at your ignorance of reality. You're a sad little man who has issues. Serious issues. 99% of your posts show this to a high degree. And just to get back on topic, I don't care for the G21 either. So at least we agree on something. :wavey:

[Kablam]

They went on with their lives instead of crying for months on end. Get over it. Your side lost.

You must have been watching a different channel of life than I was.

[ctfireman]

Never owned a G21 but would if the right deal came along (or if i stumbled upon a gen 4 FDE). The one i shot ran well & was fun to shoot.

[Ceapea]

I shoot my G19 really well, but my new(ish) G21sf is unbelievably GREAT. This thing recoils like a steel 9mm, almost no recoil at all!
I have a few friends that are all 1911 purists and even they admit that the G21 is a great 45 pistol. To watch them shoot it, I can't believe how very little the gun moves during recoil.
It has fast become my favorite Glock!

[crazymoose]

The G21 isn't bad but I never liked it. The grip sucks even on the SF model. It's way too fat and it's clunky in it's cycling.

I agree with you on the cycling. It's weird, definitely has a pronounced, two part kind of "cha-chunk" feel and sound. I've found the Ruger P series and HK USP Elite to feel the same way. The Elite, especially. I felt like I was watching the slide in slow motion when it cycled.

[Paul7]

My G21 never did work right, even after going back to the factory.

[Schaffer]

one of the finest polymer .45 pistols made.

[RetailNinja]

I trust my life to a Glock 21SF 40-50 hours a week, and before that a regular 21. IMO the 21SF is one of the best .45s on the market today. Simple, comfortable, basic, cost effective, ACCURATE. I consider myself a 1911 guy.

[NMPOPS]

I'm a huge fan of the Glock 17, 19 & 26. never been a fan of the 40's (too many frame issues) and the 20, 21 etc are really just too large for my hands to be comfortable.

That said, who the **** is Vickers? he has a TV show was a Green Beret (?) and used to build custom 1911s and apparently has gotten some money from H&K. Maybe he's just a little biased??

[countrygun]

I'm a huge fan of the Glock 17, 19 & 26. never been a fan of the 40's (too many frame issues) and the 20, 21 etc are really just too large for my hands to be comfortable.

That said, who the **** is Vickers? he has a TV show was a Green Beret (?) and used to build custom 1911s and apparently has gotten some money from H&K. Maybe he's just a little biased??

He has never bashed Glocks and has been quite fair to them including praise for the 20. He just said there were better guns for the .45

Any opinion, other that drooling, and getting body parts to stand up over a Glock and the fanboys get touchy and personal.

[suburbanhillbilly]

I'm waiting to hear what Jesse Ventura and Dog the Bounty Hunter have to say.:tongueout:


No, seriously, I am in my own little world and don't even know who Vickers is, so my opinion doesn't mean much. But it seems as if those who chose the G21 look for validation and those who didn't also seek validation that they've made the right choice.

I do it all the time...having a G30, I love to read posts from the guys here who love their 30's.

[Kimura]

Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

Aren't you quoting something from like ten years ago or so. This was pre SF and Gen 4. What he's said more recently is that HK/USP are a standard above every other duty grade .45 on the market and all the others, including the Glock 21, are on about the same level. Considering his resume, I'm going to assume he knows what he's talking about. If it works for you; great. It's an ok gun to me, but Glock historically has functioned best in 9mm. Considering it was designed in that caliber, it's not really that surprising.

For those of you asking who Larry Vickers is. He's a former member of 1st SFOD-D. A renowned 1911 pistolsmith; was instrumental in the development of the HK45 and if IIRC, the HK416. Not exactly a resume you can just dismiss.

[unit1069]

My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

Yes, especially without a link to Vickers' alleged comments about the G-21.

PS: If that damned GM pop-up spam isn't dealt with soon I just may go to other gun forums for engagement. Get real, Glock Talk, and quit spamming your audience.

[DFin]

yes, especially without a link to vickers' alleged comments about the g-21.

ps: If that damned gm pop-up spam isn't dealt with soon i just may go to other gun forums for engagement. Get real, glock talk, and quit spamming your audience.


Yes GT please unass the GM pop up!!!

[4Rules]

Currently, his website does not make any mention of any Glock chambered in .45ACP, but it does still say:

"...it most often means I am using a Glock – what I call the universal service pistol. I am a big fan of both the G17 and G19 in 9mm and that is what I use." (http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/faqs-with-larry-vickers/), and;
"...If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock." (http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/faqs-with-larry-vickers/)



LAV Military Background (http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/about-larry-vickers/)

LAV Civilian Background (http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/civilian-background/)

LAV 2013 Training Schedule (http://vickerstactical.com/training-by-larry-vickers/2013-vickers-tactical-training-schedule/)

[crazymoose]

Yes, especially without a link to Vickers' alleged comments about the G-21.


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699&page=3

[Scrappy]

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699&page=3

After reading some of the stuff on that site, Ive never had any issues with my G30. I have never had an issue with any of my Glocks in any caliber.
Guys running 230 +P ammo? Well ive never had an issue with that either. Are the G21s different then the G30 with extraction? Also Cop mentioning that his department uses 230 +P HST? I don't even know why they are not using 185 + P in the longer barrel G21 anyway. But seeing as how most cops do very little practice if any besides when they are made to qualify why they use +P anyway, lol.
So ive had G17 ,19 26 ,22,23,27 and 30 and not one issue with any of them period.
But I guess Vickers has seen a lot more then with firearms.

[brisk21]

The worst Glock is like the worst super bowl team.....still freaking awsome!!!

[thinktwice]

I love my G-21 have had it for years, several thousand rounds , and it's been 100%. I know Vickers is an expert, but I think he's wrong on this one.

[SDGlock23]

Of all the .45's I've ever owned, the Gen4 G21 is my favorite. Accurate, easy recoil and 13+1 capacity and a good set of night sights.

[glock_collector]

Larry is a wealth of firearms knowledge, I am sure glad I dont have to feed him tho...

[SCmasterblaster]

The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

Amen, brother. :cool:

[RMTactical]

The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

This, although I disagree with Vickers. It's just his opinion.

[fnfalman]

although I disagree with Vickers. It's just his opinion.

Which many people latched onto as though they came from Moses.

I find it utterly hilarious that people don't bother to think for themselves but prefer to defer to expert opinions.

[sugarcreek]

I could say the same about gun owners who voted for Mr. Gun Ban Romney.

This point is beyond many. A State, in the scheme of word concepts like "decentralized, local, representative" is very different than the Nation. I would not have supported Romney in his AWB stance in Mass, had I been a resident voter, but I sure would have voted for him over a Democrat in Mass, or ANYWHERE just about... Romney would have been a better choice for President of the United States, than Obama. In fact, Ryan would have been better than Joe.