Glock 21 = worst Glock, according to Larry Vickers... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mr00jimbo
01-13-2013, 17:25
Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

Keyhole
01-13-2013, 17:35
Love it.

skew12
01-13-2013, 17:37
The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

nipperwolf
01-13-2013, 17:58
Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

Thread Fail without a link. :upeyes:

mrsurfboard
01-13-2013, 18:00
In the world of 45acp, there are lots of great choices other then Glock.

mrsurfboard
01-13-2013, 18:01
The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

Yeah maybe 10 years ago, now, not so much.

awpk03s
01-13-2013, 18:35
I love my Gen4 21. How's it the 'worst Glock'? My pistol is reliable, accurate, fits my hand great, yada yada yada.

HAMMERHEAD
01-13-2013, 19:01
Maybe he has an axe to grind with Glocks like Dean Spier.

faawrenchbndr
01-13-2013, 19:02
The farther you stray from the G17...............:whistling:

B_RAD
01-13-2013, 19:02
We all (most of us at least do) know Larry Vickers resume. When he says something I believe it. However, he had a part in the development of the HK45C IIRC. So, when it comes to his opinion on polymer .45 I think he's always going to favor the HK over the G21. Most folks that I know that have had or at least fired both agree w/him. That doesn't mean the G21 is trash, just means he believes there are better options out there.


My personal opinion, which means nothing in the real world, is that the best Glock is the G19 or the G17. The only reason I waste my time by giving my opinion is becuase I'm guessing that one reason Mr. Vickers may have said the G21 is the worst is due to the Glock being designed around the 9mm. Some feel that the Glock is best in the 9mm platform.

Just my $0.02

FLIPPER 348
01-13-2013, 19:05
Your thoughts?





Who cares what that wind-bag Vickers says.

CMG
01-13-2013, 19:24
Paid spokes-pukes rarely offer an objective view of things.

crazymoose
01-13-2013, 19:24
He's simply stating that he's seen a higher ratio of problem guns to good guns than in other models. I have no reason to disbelieve him, given how some large departments have dumped the 21. Having said that, I have a Gen4 21 that I fully intend to keep and keep shooting.

And while he did consult for H&K on the HK45 (along with Hackathorn), he was the first to criticize the production model when it came out. H&K had made some last-minute changes to the production model, and he wasn't happy. If memory serves, he disliked the Spider Man grip of the full size guns (both pre-production models have the more conventional grips of the 45C), and the triggers on the production models were considerably worse than the triggers on the pre-production guns.

Kozel
01-13-2013, 19:26
I have one of oldest G21s there is. Bought shortly after they were available to buy. All these years it did not jammed once. I cannot even say that about my old HK USP! It jammed once on Russian steel cased ammo.

Sharky7
01-13-2013, 19:47
My Glock 21 is 100% reliable. We have had a few guys have issues though with their tac lights. Biggest issue with the Glock 21 to me is that it has the ergonomics of a 2X4.

Rooster Rugburn
01-13-2013, 19:47
Maybe he has an axe to grind with Glocks like Dean Spier.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

byf43
01-13-2013, 19:51
I have NO complaints about my G21!!!!!!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/CupG-21cropped.jpg

Diesel McBadass
01-13-2013, 19:56
vickers has no ax to grind with glock, he said he loves the g1/19 and considers them the finest 9mms made.

T-Rod45
01-13-2013, 19:59
My Gen3 21SF was my first Glock, and my favorite, until I picked up a Gen4 23... It's such a soft shooter, even with hotter loads, and I've had zero issues in 1300+ rounds. It's been retired to the safe for the past 2 years, as I've been shooting more 9/40, but I can't say I'll ever get rid of it. For a full size .45, I can't find a damn thing wrong with it...

bac1023
01-13-2013, 20:47
Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

My thought is that this thread should be in General Glocking where it belongs.

Not here...

furioso2112
01-13-2013, 21:00
A G21 might be the best Glock in others' estimates.

bac1023
01-13-2013, 21:02
A G21 might be the best Glock in others' estimates.

Not mine

I only really like them in 9mm. I don't mind the 357 Sig and 10mm models either, but I'll pass on the others.

countrygun
01-13-2013, 21:07
vickers has no ax to grind with glock, he said he loves the g1/19 and considers them the finest 9mms made.



He has also been good in the praise department for the G-20
(which is a bit strange if he doesn't like the 21), could be that the G-20 is the best platform of it's type that you can get the 10mm in, but he thinks there are better ones for the .45.

maybe he meant it exactly as he said it????

FLIPPER 348
01-13-2013, 21:14
I wonder if Mr Vickers, while conducting classes, wears plates in his 5.11 pants to protect from excessive leg-humping??

fnfalman
01-13-2013, 23:10
Vickers is probably right. There's a reason why I have a G20SF but no G21 and it's because the G21 suck!!!

ArmoryDoc
01-14-2013, 00:07
Who cares what that wind-bag Vickers says.

Didn't you vote for Obama ?

Big Mad Dawg
01-14-2013, 00:57
Didn't you vote for Obama ?

Yes he did and trust me a liberal from Bend Oregon is no friend to the shooting sport.

The leg humping comment was particularly classy.

ArmoryDoc
01-14-2013, 01:07
Then what the heck is someone like FLIPPER doing criticizing Larry Vickers who is respected and well known for being credible ?

Scrappy
01-14-2013, 05:28
So whats his reason for saying its the worst Glock?
Never heard anyone that has one have nothing but praise for it.
Holds 13 rds and is very accurate, more so then a G19 or any other Glock besides the G30.
I don't own a G21 but do have a G30 and its the most accurate Glock I have ever had and I have had a lot of them. It has also been 100% flawless and did not cost anywhere near $1K!
If someone has small hands, well then its not the Gun for them.

NEOH212
01-14-2013, 06:05
The G21 isn't bad but I never liked it. The grip sucks even on the SF model. It's way too fat and it's clunky in it's cycling.

If it works for you great! There is better though. I couldn't get rid of the one I had fast enough.

Glock in general....:yawn:

Baba Louie
01-14-2013, 08:52
Gotta ask, when exactly DID, LAV make that G21 statement and exactly how was it worded?

Was it a comparison to Glocks 9mm and/or .40s?
Was it the unsupported chamber situation?
Was it the initial light rail that was less than stellar when a light was mounted? (who knew the dynamics of the action would be affected, eh Gaston?)
Was it when he was under HK contract?
When compared to, what other .45?

Does it matter what any high speed low dragster says or writes and will everyone always agree?

I'm sure, from his perspective, based on his experience, he is right... for him. Maybe others as well. He has BTDT a few times around the block. Good to know he too has strong opinions. But in the end... his advice is worth what you pay for (and for some, it would be a great learning experience to pay him for some of his knowledge and experience)

Arc Angel
01-14-2013, 08:54
Prolly because of G-21 issues like: (1) the old SPORADICALLY defective #4256 trigger bars, (2) the minimal, 'Modified Browning Lockup', (3) the high number of these Glocks with excessive chamber rebates and (4) an increased, 'kaBoom!' factor.

SiGlockBoy
01-14-2013, 09:13
Got my 1st 21 in the mid 90s and have never had one issue with it. It has been a very nice shooting and fairly accurate gun. Only complaint is that it is a little large for my hand.

I won't compare it to a 1911 though as there just isn't much of a comparison.

Now if I could have my 36 in a 21 size, I would be a happy. That grips is stellar.

G26S239
01-14-2013, 09:40
I like mine. Back in 2000 when I got it I had never heard of Vickers. In 1982 when I bought my first 1911 I had never heard of Jeff Cooper. Not having experts to guide my gun purchases does not seem to have had any adverse affect on my life.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 10:01
I like mine. Back in 2000 when I got it I had never heard of Vickers. In 1982 when I bought my first 1911 I had never heard of Jeff Cooper. Not having experts to guide my gun purchases does not seem to have had any adverse affect on my life.

So you don't want to have a Ludus Costa super dooper AR15?

Green Dragoon
01-14-2013, 10:15
and it's clunky in it's cycling.


:yawn:

I agree. Plus, my ambi mag release on my 21SF fell apart.

I traded her in for an HK45

countrygun
01-14-2013, 11:22
Then what the heck is someone like FLIPPER doing criticizing Larry Vickers who is respected and well known for being credible ?


Given Flipper's ability to judge political candidates, I am going to have to move my opinion of Larry Vickers up a notch.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 11:29
Flipper's candidate won the POTUS...again.

Sounds to me like he backed a winner.

My candidate lost but at least we Libertarians are equanimity in defeat instead of being sore losers.

countrygun
01-14-2013, 11:35
Flipper's candidate won the POTUS...again.

Sounds to me like he backed a winner.

My candidate lost but at least we Libertarians are equanimity in defeat instead of being sore losers.

Yah, look at how they handled losing the Republican primary,

:upeyes::rofl::rofl:

I have to beak up you hump session on Flipper's leg, but a gun owner who would vote for Obama has very little room to talk about a professional writer's credibility.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 12:08
Yah, look at how they handled losing the Republican primary,

:upeyes::rofl::rofl:

They went on with their lives instead of crying for months on end. Get over it. Your side lost.

I have to beak up you hump session on Flipper's leg, but a gun owner who would vote for Obama has very little room to talk about a professional writer's credibility.

I could say the same about gun owners who voted for Mr. Gun Ban Romney.

glock2740
01-14-2013, 15:01
Get over it. Your side lost.
.
Either you were for obama or you were against him. By saying that "your side lost", due to obama winning, makes you look like a fool. As, were you not, by your own admission, voting for the Libertarian party to win against obama? :upeyes: And anyone who voted for obama and claims to be a "gun person", needs to be the first to set a good example for the rest of us, and go straight down to their local authorities and turn in all of their weapons and ammunition.

oldman11
01-14-2013, 15:03
Well if the poor baby can't handle it, that's his problem.

glock2740
01-14-2013, 15:04
As for Larry Vickers' comments on the G21, I've never heard him say anything but pure positive about Glocks in general. Maybe he just doesn't like the G21. I'm a huge Glock fan, but the G21 has never appealed to me either.

M&P15T
01-14-2013, 15:18
My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

DFin
01-14-2013, 15:28
My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

Yeah really. As if anyone is going to ditch their 21's because of what he thinks or says.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 15:38
Either you were for obama or you were against him. By saying that "your side lost", due to obama winning, makes you look like a fool. As, were you not, by your own admission, voting for the Libertarian party to win against obama? :upeyes:

I voted for the Libertarian Party because I believed Gary Johnson to be the best POTUS candidate and not because he's a Third Partyer or whatever.

And anyone who voted for obama and claims to be a "gun person", needs to be the first to set a good example for the rest of us, and go straight down to their local authorities and turn in all of their weapons and ammunition.

Why did "gun persons" vote for that gun banning Romney? If Romney had won, then these "gun persons" would have started to line up the block to turn their guns and ammo into the local authorities as well?

You Romney supporters make me laugh with all the pretension that somehow Romney is a pro-gunner.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 15:42
My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

Be careful now. Some GTers will come up and pit Vickers' credentials against yours and tell you how stupid you are for not following an industry expert's advices and recommendations.:rofl:

M&P15T
01-14-2013, 15:46
Be careful now. Some GTers will come up and pit Vickers' credentials against yours and tell you how stupid you are for not following an industry expert's advices and recommendations.:rofl:

I've made it clear a few times how much I care about the advice and recommendation of "industry exprets".

glock2740
01-14-2013, 15:55
I voted for the Libertarian Party because I believed Gary Johnson to be the best POTUS candidate and not because he's a Third Partyer or whatever.



Why did "gun persons" vote for that gun banning Romney? If Romney had won, then these "gun persons" would have started to line up the block to turn their guns and ammo into the local authorities as well?

You Romney supporters make me laugh with all the pretension that somehow Romney is a pro-gunner.
I was a "Romney supporter", because I wanted obama's ass out of the White House. Period. Also, a vote for a third party canidate, especially in this past Presidential election, was a wasted vote. Period. I would have voted for an empty soup can and a dog turd on the sidewalk over what we had and unfortunately still have, in the oval office. You third party supporters make me laugh at your ignorance of reality. You're a sad little man who has issues. Serious issues. 99% of your posts show this to a high degree. And just to get back on topic, I don't care for the G21 either. So at least we agree on something. :wavey:

Kablam
01-14-2013, 16:50
They went on with their lives instead of crying for months on end. Get over it. Your side lost.

You must have been watching a different channel of life than I was.

ctfireman
01-14-2013, 16:55
Never owned a G21 but would if the right deal came along (or if i stumbled upon a gen 4 FDE). The one i shot ran well & was fun to shoot.

Ceapea
01-14-2013, 17:58
I shoot my G19 really well, but my new(ish) G21sf is unbelievably GREAT. This thing recoils like a steel 9mm, almost no recoil at all!
I have a few friends that are all 1911 purists and even they admit that the G21 is a great 45 pistol. To watch them shoot it, I can't believe how very little the gun moves during recoil.
It has fast become my favorite Glock!

crazymoose
01-14-2013, 18:52
The G21 isn't bad but I never liked it. The grip sucks even on the SF model. It's way too fat and it's clunky in it's cycling.

I agree with you on the cycling. It's weird, definitely has a pronounced, two part kind of "cha-chunk" feel and sound. I've found the Ruger P series and HK USP Elite to feel the same way. The Elite, especially. I felt like I was watching the slide in slow motion when it cycled.

Paul7
01-14-2013, 20:06
My G21 never did work right, even after going back to the factory.

Schaffer
01-14-2013, 20:17
one of the finest polymer .45 pistols made.

RetailNinja
01-14-2013, 20:26
I trust my life to a Glock 21SF 40-50 hours a week, and before that a regular 21. IMO the 21SF is one of the best .45s on the market today. Simple, comfortable, basic, cost effective, ACCURATE. I consider myself a 1911 guy.

NMPOPS
01-14-2013, 20:30
I'm a huge fan of the Glock 17, 19 & 26. never been a fan of the 40's (too many frame issues) and the 20, 21 etc are really just too large for my hands to be comfortable.

That said, who the **** is Vickers? he has a TV show was a Green Beret (?) and used to build custom 1911s and apparently has gotten some money from H&K. Maybe he's just a little biased??

countrygun
01-14-2013, 21:03
I'm a huge fan of the Glock 17, 19 & 26. never been a fan of the 40's (too many frame issues) and the 20, 21 etc are really just too large for my hands to be comfortable.

That said, who the **** is Vickers? he has a TV show was a Green Beret (?) and used to build custom 1911s and apparently has gotten some money from H&K. Maybe he's just a little biased??

He has never bashed Glocks and has been quite fair to them including praise for the 20. He just said there were better guns for the .45

Any opinion, other that drooling, and getting body parts to stand up over a Glock and the fanboys get touchy and personal.

suburbanhillbilly
01-14-2013, 21:07
I'm waiting to hear what Jesse Ventura and Dog the Bounty Hunter have to say.:tongueout:


No, seriously, I am in my own little world and don't even know who Vickers is, so my opinion doesn't mean much. But it seems as if those who chose the G21 look for validation and those who didn't also seek validation that they've made the right choice.

I do it all the time...having a G30, I love to read posts from the guys here who love their 30's.

Kimura
01-14-2013, 22:23
Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

Aren't you quoting something from like ten years ago or so. This was pre SF and Gen 4. What he's said more recently is that HK/USP are a standard above every other duty grade .45 on the market and all the others, including the Glock 21, are on about the same level. Considering his resume, I'm going to assume he knows what he's talking about. If it works for you; great. It's an ok gun to me, but Glock historically has functioned best in 9mm. Considering it was designed in that caliber, it's not really that surprising.

For those of you asking who Larry Vickers is. He's a former member of 1st SFOD-D. A renowned 1911 pistolsmith; was instrumental in the development of the HK45 and if IIRC, the HK416. Not exactly a resume you can just dismiss.

unit1069
01-15-2013, 00:59
My thoughts?

Who the **** cares what Larry Vickers thinks?

Yes, especially without a link to Vickers' alleged comments about the G-21.

PS: If that damned GM pop-up spam isn't dealt with soon I just may go to other gun forums for engagement. Get real, Glock Talk, and quit spamming your audience.

DFin
01-15-2013, 06:12
yes, especially without a link to vickers' alleged comments about the g-21.

ps: If that damned gm pop-up spam isn't dealt with soon i just may go to other gun forums for engagement. Get real, glock talk, and quit spamming your audience.


Yes GT please unass the GM pop up!!!

4Rules
01-15-2013, 07:01
Currently, his website does not make any mention of any Glock chambered in .45ACP, but it does still say:

"...it most often means I am using a Glock – what I call the universal service pistol. I am a big fan of both the G17 and G19 in 9mm and that is what I use." (http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/faqs-with-larry-vickers/), and;
"...If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then don’t get a 1911 – use a Glock." (http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/faqs-with-larry-vickers/)



LAV Military Background (http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/about-larry-vickers/)

LAV Civilian Background (http://vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers-2/civilian-background/)

LAV 2013 Training Schedule (http://vickerstactical.com/training-by-larry-vickers/2013-vickers-tactical-training-schedule/)

crazymoose
01-15-2013, 13:44
Yes, especially without a link to Vickers' alleged comments about the G-21.


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699&page=3

Scrappy
01-15-2013, 14:31
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699&page=3

After reading some of the stuff on that site, Ive never had any issues with my G30. I have never had an issue with any of my Glocks in any caliber.
Guys running 230 +P ammo? Well ive never had an issue with that either. Are the G21s different then the G30 with extraction? Also Cop mentioning that his department uses 230 +P HST? I don't even know why they are not using 185 + P in the longer barrel G21 anyway. But seeing as how most cops do very little practice if any besides when they are made to qualify why they use +P anyway, lol.
So ive had G17 ,19 26 ,22,23,27 and 30 and not one issue with any of them period.
But I guess Vickers has seen a lot more then with firearms.

brisk21
01-16-2013, 21:56
The worst Glock is like the worst super bowl team.....still freaking awsome!!!

thinktwice
01-16-2013, 23:13
I love my G-21 have had it for years, several thousand rounds , and it's been 100%. I know Vickers is an expert, but I think he's wrong on this one.

SDGlock23
01-17-2013, 07:00
Of all the .45's I've ever owned, the Gen4 G21 is my favorite. Accurate, easy recoil and 13+1 capacity and a good set of night sights.

glock_collector
01-17-2013, 11:06
Larry is a wealth of firearms knowledge, I am sure glad I dont have to feed him tho...

SCmasterblaster
01-17-2013, 12:14
The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

Amen, brother. :cool:

RMTactical
01-17-2013, 12:23
The worst glock is still better than a lot of other guns.

This, although I disagree with Vickers. It's just his opinion.

fnfalman
01-17-2013, 12:31
although I disagree with Vickers. It's just his opinion.

Which many people latched onto as though they came from Moses.

I find it utterly hilarious that people don't bother to think for themselves but prefer to defer to expert opinions.

sugarcreek
01-17-2013, 12:32
I could say the same about gun owners who voted for Mr. Gun Ban Romney.

This point is beyond many. A State, in the scheme of word concepts like "decentralized, local, representative" is very different than the Nation. I would not have supported Romney in his AWB stance in Mass, had I been a resident voter, but I sure would have voted for him over a Democrat in Mass, or ANYWHERE just about... Romney would have been a better choice for President of the United States, than Obama. In fact, Ryan would have been better than Joe.

GTlight
04-16-2014, 22:57
My Glock 21SF has been 100% reliable since 2009. Recently, I purchased a Glock 23 because it is a 4 calibre Glock: 40SW, 9mm, .357SIG, 22LR. I like the versatility of this one.

Inebriated
04-16-2014, 23:58
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=11699&page=3
Could they blow him any harder?

I have no doubt at all about Larry's credibility, or that he did experience failures, but the test was done in 2001, and I'd venture to call it outdated, with the Gen 4 and later Gen 3 guns in use now.

FLIPPER 348
04-17-2014, 00:17
Could they blow him any harder?

.



....he does have the cleanest balls in the gun-rag industry

Inebriated
04-17-2014, 00:20
^I have no qualm with Larry, but his fan club seems abrasive.

Direwolf131
04-17-2014, 00:21
Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

I agree with Vckers, as one who had a G21SF blow up in his face, I have little love for them. But I also think the HK45 is no better, in fact its bulkier, more awkward to manipulate, and bigger overall while affording three less rounds per magazine. The one I owned had the interchangeable back strap so poorly fabricated that it had two spots where you could actually see where it didn't mate snugly in its slot, and for a grand, thats way unacceptable. I have two S&W M&P's that cost virtually half of its price where the interchangeable back straps fit so perfectly they are hard to tell apart from the frame.

G36's Rule
04-17-2014, 07:21
Yikes... Old thread is silly.

nylaw
04-17-2014, 07:24
My HK45 is great. Not sure if i would agree it's more awkward to manipulate. Is it different compared to a Glock? Yes I will give you that. I enjoy shooting my Glocks, HK's and 1911. I like em all.

Never had the pleasure of shooting a 21 so no opinion on that except I am a huge LAV fan and he doesn't sugar coat. In reading his post he was open minded about future 21's and said he feels a buttplug would have helped. Hardly a guy with an ax to grind. He even had a show on TacTV dedicated to Glocks. I think the guys who don't like him probably don't like his personality so everything he says is going to be taken negatively. Probably the same way I feel about Obama.

WarEagle32
04-17-2014, 15:42
LAV usually has a lot of love for Glocks!

ronin.45
04-17-2014, 16:21
Who cares what that wind-bag Vickers says.

This is my usual thought. I always wonder what makes these people experts on so many things.

Diesel McBadass
04-17-2014, 16:22
Is this thread about glocks or who we voted for?

Michael Rye
04-17-2014, 16:49
I like my Gen4 G21 so much that I bought another Gen4 G21 in FDE to keep it company.


We all have our preferences. I like mine because they are reliable, inexpensive, easy to maintain, accurate enough for my purposes, very soft shooting for a 45 Auto, and a 13 round capacity is a plus!


I can't find anything not to like about a G21, but I recognize everyone's tastes are different.

mattallamerican
04-17-2014, 17:47
i love my gen 4 21 zero problems. the slide stop never came out while useing it in a ppc match like my 1000.00 dollar plus dan wesson did

SmithietheFox
04-17-2014, 20:19
Over 5k rounds thru my Gen 3 21 without a hiccup- it's arguably my favorite Glock

st2012
04-17-2014, 21:15
Over 5k rounds thru my Gen 3 21 without a hiccup- it's arguably my favorite Glock

Same here. I've only got about 2200 rounds through mine but it's been flawless and is without a doubt my favorite Glock.

"Cold Dead Hands" !
04-17-2014, 21:21
Old news. But why say that? Mine (gen 3 21SF) has been dead reliable in the 500 rounds or so I've put through it. Easy to shoot, etc.
I don't know what his deal was, but I have yet to see any dissatisfied 21 owners, except for the grip. :rofl:

Your thoughts?

Larry Vickers probably thought it was too big ?
But it's no bulkier than a Sig

Reb 56
04-17-2014, 21:30
Yes GT please unass the GM pop up!!!

That pop up is a pain, I must hit it 20 times a night.

Diesel McBadass
04-18-2014, 05:49
That pop up is a pain, I must hit it 20 times a night.

Its worse on mobile

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Ohub Campfire mobile app

BuckyP
04-18-2014, 06:53
For years I thought the G21 is too big. Then I got one on a trade and found it very pleasant to shoot, and capable too. :supergrin:

http://www.pollardfamily.net/al/g21expert2.jpg

glock2619
04-18-2014, 07:11
I've actually come to really like my 4th gen 21. I've had 4 different 21's, and with my smaller hands, they were just tough to hold onto. Between the 4th gen's slightly smaller grip and more aggressive texture, it made enough difference that I can finally hold onto the thing. Soft shooting, accurate, and reliable so far. Reliability never seemed to be a problem for any of my other 21's though. So, I don't know.

As always, YMMV.

Iceman cHucK
04-18-2014, 09:32
The PA State Police have stopped using their Gen4G21 issued pistols due to problems that Glock has yet to get fixed. Waiting to find out the cause of the problems.

Nalapombu
04-18-2014, 10:02
Paid spokes-pukes rarely offer an objective view of things.

Larry Vickers is an entire UNIVERSE from being that.

I read and article where he said the 1911 was a poor choice for those that didn't want to become knowledgeable about them and know their makeup and what makes them run right and how to solve problems with them. If you did want to get that involved with your handgun then the 1911 is the best choice ever made. For those that just wanted to get a handgun, shoot it, clean it and use it like most gun owners use their pistols the BEST choice for that class of handgun owner is the HK45C.

Like it or not his opinion carried quite a bit of weight.

Nalajr

hal13
04-18-2014, 11:37
6,000 rounds thru my Gen4 G21 and never a problem

Speleothem
04-18-2014, 14:38
My Gen3 G21 was my first Glock.
It's been...perfection. :supergrin:

Rinspeed
04-18-2014, 17:10
This is my usual thought. I always wonder what makes these people experts on so many things.



I'm certainly no member of the Vickers fan club but if there is anyone that should be considered an expert on small arms it should be him. Just by the nature of firing, or seen fired by others, a couple million rounds of ammo, only a complete moron wouldn't learn quite a bit.

I mean who would you rather take advice from a former top USPSA and IDPA shooter, Delta Force, gunsmith and well respected firearms instructor or some Libtard wannabe from Oregon. :whistling: :rofl:

mboylan
04-18-2014, 17:40
Larry Vickers is an entire UNIVERSE from being that.

I read and article where he said the 1911 was a poor choice for those that didn't want to become knowledgeable about them and know their makeup and what makes them run right and how to solve problems with them. If you did want to get that involved with your handgun then the 1911 is the best choice ever made. For those that just wanted to get a handgun, shoot it, clean it and use it like most gun owners use their pistols the BEST choice for that class of handgun owner is the HK45C.

Like it or not his opinion carried quite a bit of weight.

Nalajr

The HK45CT may be the best .45 out there right now. It is an extremely reliable torture tested Spec Ops gun. The G21 is not.

eb07
04-18-2014, 17:43
Larry is certainly entitled to his opinion.

Minnow
04-18-2014, 19:57
I disagree with Vicker's opinion with another sample of one. My old G21 shoots fine and always has.

fran m
04-18-2014, 20:43
The PA State Police have stopped using their Gen4G21 issued pistols due to problems that Glock has yet to get fixed. Waiting to find out the cause of the problems.

A little off topic for this resurrected thread but as of a few weeks ago PSP gave troopers the option of carrying something else they were qualified with. A friend told me that only he and one other trooper in his barracks opted to carry something else.

Glock was in the process of replacing trigger bars.

Edit, I messaged him. He said the trigger bars were replaced and then triggers were not resetting after the first round was fired. Glock now believes that it is a frame problem. Most troopers are still carrying them though.

ChuteTheMall
04-18-2014, 21:08
Like it or not his opinion carried quite a bit of weight.




So does he.


http://i57.tinypic.com/2mo81e1.jpg


:eat:

Teecher45
04-18-2014, 21:36
Hmm. I kinda like mine...
I've got plenty of pistols I could make my HD gun. But this one got the light. Fourteen rounds of 230 gr. GD's in the pistol I am most accurate with.
Yeah, I feel okay.
239272

bac1023
04-19-2014, 06:09
I mean who would you rather take advice from a former top USPSA and IDPA shooter, Delta Force, gunsmith and well respected firearms instructor or some Libtard wannabe from Oregon. :whistling: :rofl:

Flipper seems to take issue whenever someone's opinion is held in high regard. :)

bmoore
04-19-2014, 08:26
Flipper seems to take issue whenever someone's opinion is held in high regard. :)

I have noticed that over the years here as well. I think he was the kid that got picked on a ton (which sucks and is sad) but I think he still has bad nightmares about the popular kids.

FLIPPER 348
04-19-2014, 08:57
Flipper seems to take issue whenever someone's opinion is held in high regard. :)


Not really. I just don't take advice from 'collectors' nor folk who are getting paid to give it.



.....I mean really, would anyone buy or sell a firearm based on this article??

bac1023
04-19-2014, 09:08
Not really. I just don't take advice from 'collectors' nor folk who are getting paid to give it.


Actually, collecting and shooting is about as hard to do as walking and chewing gum...

bac1023
04-19-2014, 09:09
.....I mean really, would anyone buy or sell a firearm based on this article??

I certainly wouldn't, but I like to make up my own mind about what I buy or sell.

FLIPPER 348
04-19-2014, 09:20
Actually, collecting and shooting is about as hard to do as walking and chewing gum...


Egzackly. It should be about enjoying the sport and knowing how to use a weapon. The leg-humping that goes on in the 1911 & Glock world is a bit much thou. Folks who obccess constantly about training and latest comments by gun-writers who are getting paid to write them. I've dropped more rounds loading mags than most here have shot downrange as I am old and have been heavily shooting for 30 years. I know what i like and no article or opinion of others will influence my decisions. I'd like to drive downstate to Thunder Ranch and run a course with Larry. Sure, he would beat me .....but not by much!

GlockWheeler
04-19-2014, 09:52
I have owned several G21's and have had zero issues with them. At the same time, I tend to pay attention to comments made by high volume firearms instructors when they give input on what they have seen during the high numbers of classes they have instructed. Not so much to take for gospel that any given firearm is necessarily a POS, but to learn which specific issues they have seen so as to prevent them from happening to me. Aside from what personal views people may have towards Mr. Vickers, IMO his experience and background should deserve respect to at least some degree. I know I will never achieve the level of experience he has. In addition, I would like to see him put a Gen 4 G21 through it's paces so as to compare it to the early model G21.

happyguy
04-19-2014, 09:57
Well, according to the experts on GT the G21 is not the worst Glock.

So which one is the worst?

Or are they all perfection?

Regards,
Happyguy :)

hikerpaddler
04-19-2014, 15:57
On the internet, all glocks are bad. For those that actually use them for work, the 21 and almost all others are top shelf.

Magus
04-19-2014, 16:47
Larry Vickers....LMAO!!! People still listen to this sweathog?

I respect the fact he served his country...well done...but apparently none of the discipline on physical conditioning took. Say what you want, but it does say something about who's former military when they're in that poor of shape.

Larry is a 1911 guy. Which is fine. I love 1911's. But Larry is at base going to hate any Glock because it's not a 1911. He's a highly ignorant man. But God bless him anyway for making a living with his website and videos.

happyguy
04-19-2014, 17:56
Larry Vickers....LMAO!!! People still listen to this sweathog?

I respect the fact he served his country...well done...but apparently none of the discipline on physical conditioning took. Say what you want, but it does say something about who's former military when they're in that poor of shape.

Larry is a 1911 guy. Which is fine. I love 1911's. But Larry is at base going to hate any Glock because it's not a 1911. He's a highly ignorant man. But God bless him anyway for making a living with his website and videos.

Funny, I heard he thinks there are better choices than a 1911.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

FLIPPER 348
04-19-2014, 18:44
On the internet, all glocks are bad. For those that actually use them for work, the 21 and almost all others are top shelf.

this


shoot a gen 4 19 today, fine firearm

crazymoose
04-19-2014, 23:53
Larry Vickers....LMAO!!! People still listen to this sweathog?

I respect the fact he served his country...well done...but apparently none of the discipline on physical conditioning took. Say what you want, but it does say something about who's former military when they're in that poor of shape.

Larry is a 1911 guy. Which is fine. I love 1911's. But Larry is at base going to hate any Glock because it's not a 1911. He's a highly ignorant man. But God bless him anyway for making a living with his website and videos.

This part is unequivocally incorrect. For a guy who's basically a legend in 1911 circles, he's not really wedded to the weapon. He is pretty fond of Glocks, and I think was pretty big on the PPQ, and several other designs as well. He admits that the 1911 is a huge pain to maintain (if you shoot a significant number of rounds), and that it's not the best choice for the average shooter.

As for his weight, come on! What's next, you're going to give Arnold crap for looking small these days? Dude spent a long time in SF, and was in much better shape than most of us will ever be in.

His opinion of the Glock 21 is not going to make me get rid of mine. However, I also have no reason not to believe him. If I bought 100 Glocks of all models, and put thousands of rounds through each of them, it may very well be the case that I'd experience more issues with the 21's. Guys who teach classes for a living have a much larger sample size than most of us, which does result in a more informed opinion.