Gelatin test: .38 spl Speer Gold Dot +P 125 & 135 gr [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Andrew Wiggin
01-14-2013, 13:50
Surprisingly, both Gold Dots failed to expand at all. Also surprising, the lighter bullet penetrated deeper. Now I need to find a better .38 spl load for a short barrel revolver. Maybe the "FBI load"? Anybody have any recommendations?

Video:

Gel test: 38 spl 125 gr & 135 gr +P Gold Dot - YouTube

JohnnyReb
01-14-2013, 13:56
It expanded here
Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135 gr Ammo Test - YouTube
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

Andrew Wiggin
01-14-2013, 14:19
Interdasting. As you would expect, it got less penetration, too.

Berto
01-14-2013, 14:28
Velocity was low. I noticed that more recent lots seem to chrono higher velocities than older lots.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 15:01
Get some Buffalo Bore ammo and call it a day.

M&P15T
01-14-2013, 16:33
There's reasons why no one uses .38s anymore.

fnfalman
01-14-2013, 16:39
There's reasons why no one uses .38s anymore.

Yeah, it's called lack of marksmanship skills. Why aim and fire five or six shots when you can just dump a Beta C-Mag?

DeLo
01-14-2013, 16:43
Get some Buffalo Bore ammo and call it a day.
Do you carry those in a 442/642? I was just wondering if they jump a crimp.

M&P15T
01-14-2013, 16:44
Yeah, it's called lack of marksmanship skills. Why aim and fire five or six shots when you can just dump a Beta C-Mag?

That's your opinon, aint mine.

cowboy1964
01-14-2013, 16:51
Was this the Short Barrel stuff or no? I suspect not. There's a reason they have a Short Barrel version.

cowboy1964
01-14-2013, 16:51
There's reasons why no one uses .38s anymore.

Widely used as BUGs.

M&P15T
01-14-2013, 17:27
Widely used as BUGs.

Exactly.

No one actually uses them.

garya1961
01-14-2013, 18:38
Retired mine about 3 years ago. I still have though.

Two_Clicks
01-14-2013, 18:55
There's reasons why no one uses .38s anymore.


I'm ugh gonna have to go ahead and ugh disagree with you there.


http://www.gobrightwing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Bill-Lumbergh.jpg

Andrew Wiggin
01-14-2013, 19:46
Was this the Short Barrel stuff or no? I suspect not. There's a reason they have a Short Barrel version.

Yes. Part no. 53921. 50 round gold colored box.

I think the 40 degree temperature contributed to the slower velocity. Still, what good is a round that can only expand through heavy clothing when it's warm enough for people to not wear heavy clothing?

Berto
01-14-2013, 22:45
I'm ugh gonna have to go ahead and ugh disagree with you there.


http://www.gobrightwing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Bill-Lumbergh.jpg

:rofl:

Yep....

fastbolt
01-15-2013, 02:00
When the Speer 135gr +P .38 Spl GDHP +P was first released I had a chance to see a couple rounds fired through one of the other attendee's 360PD. It was added because someone had brought a box of the new load and we were trying examples of different loads people had brought to a hosted gel event.

Here's a link where I posted the info with some other results from my older notes:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1359746&highlight=Speer+135gr+.38+Spl+Gel+test

It's reportedly done rather well since being developed at the request of NYPD.

I don't limit myself to just that load (or any other single +P load) for my .38 Spl J's, though.

At the moment I have access to the Speer 135gr GDHP +P, Rem's 125gr BJHP +P and Win's 130gr RA38B/PDX1 +P, so it sort of depends on whichever company's box is closest at hand when I'm reloading guns (after a range session, cleaning, etc), speedloaders & speedstrips ... (and I still have some Rem & Win 158gr LSWCHP/LHP +P, as I used those loads for some years).

I have a good supply of the older designed 125gr GDHP +P, but I mostly use those for extra range ammo.

Although my assortment of J's doesn't include the ultra light Airlite or PD models (with the lightest of mine being a pair of M&P 340's, which tip the scales at 13.3oz as they ship), I still periodically check for signs of bullet pull. (Seems prudent to be a bit careful when using boxes from different production lots, looking for any QC issues affecting crimp.)

As far as whether the .38 snubs are still being used?

Well, they're selling as fast as S&W can churn them out.

I've also attended large training venues where speakers/trainers related a surprising number of instances where the 5-shot snub's were successfully used by cops who found themselves in situations where they had to use them (being carried as secondary/backup weapons) to save their lives.

The .380's still serve in this role, too, but the venerable 5-shot snub is more popular than ever. ;)

Of course, not everyone working in LE nowadays learned their foundation handgun skillset on DA revolvers, so it's not surprising the DA/DAO snubs are being "rediscovered" by a younger generation of cops.

I've been seeing a lot more of them appearing in qual sessions in recent years. Many of them being one or another of the newer production offerings, but a fair number of older ones as some seasoned cops have been taking them out of mothballs and reacquainting themselves with them, too.

I never thought I'd own more than half a dozen J's (and a SP101DAO) ... but I do now.

Andy W
01-15-2013, 07:25
Just checked Speer's website. The 135 grain +p load is their Short Barrel load. The 125 grain load is from the normal Gold Dot line. The 135 grain +p load is well proven on the street. I don't think it's wise do dump it based on one test. Was your gel even properly made or calibrated? What material did you shoot them through?

Andrew Wiggin
01-15-2013, 10:24
The gelatin is properly calibrated with a .177 BB and the data is at the end of the video. It is not 250A bloom photographer's gelatin but previous results have been very consistent with published professional tests. I used four layers of denim. Even if it was way out of calibration, the fact that the bullets failed to expand is troubling. I'll do the test again.

fnfalman
01-15-2013, 10:26
Do you carry those in a 442/642? I was just wondering if they jump a crimp.

I haven't shot Buffalo Bore through my J-frame M38 snubbie or Ruger LCR yet. I've shot them through my Colt Detective Specials though.

fnfalman
01-15-2013, 10:28
The gelatin is properly calibrated with a .177 BB and the data is at the end of the video. It is not 250A bloom photographer's gelatin but previous results have been very consistent with published professional tests. I used four layers of denim. Even if it was way out of calibration, the fact that the bullets failed to expand is troubling. I'll do the test again.

I never counted on any bullet to expand or deform regardless of calibers or brands. I treat them all as though they're ball ammo. Any deformation is a bonus.

fnfalman
01-15-2013, 10:29
Exactly.

No one actually uses them.

Double Post.

fnfalman
01-15-2013, 10:31
Exactly.

No one actually uses them.

How many cops and civilians, hell, how many military personnel, use their main handguns in anger?

Travclem
01-15-2013, 10:48
There's reasons why no one uses .38s anymore.
I carry a 642 almost every day as do a lot of people. In my testing of the PDX1 I got expansion and good penetration every time. No matter what you carry, test your ammo out of your gun yourself.

fastbolt
01-15-2013, 10:49
BTW, the velocity reading you obtained does look a bit low. Might've been the cold temp. Might've been the production lot. Might've been the BC gap on that specific snub. Dunno.

You might try some of the Win 130gr +P PDX1, too. The penetration & velocity numbers looked decent in the last gel shoot. The loads are the same in both the glitzy commercial 20-rd PDX1 Defender box and the tan Ranger RA38B 50-rd box.

The Win catalog data lists a 4V test barrel for its velocity data, although the chrono readings for a couple of the rounds fired at our range, using a J belonging to one of the instructors, were in the high 880's/low 890's.

cowboy1964
01-15-2013, 11:36
Interesting that without any expansion the 135+P only got 13.8" penetration. That is not excessive so I wouldn't worry about it too much. It achieves 11-12" or so even with full expansion.

Andy W
01-15-2013, 17:28
Interesting that without any expansion the 135+P only got 13.8" penetration. That is not excessive so I wouldn't worry about it too much. It achieves 11-12" or so even with full expansion.

The penetration of the two rounds also makes me wonder about the gel used in the test.


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Andrew Wiggin
01-16-2013, 14:01
The penetration of the two rounds also makes me wonder about the gel used in the test.


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