Printable Lowers and mags, does this make gun control obsolete? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RMTactical
01-15-2013, 18:47
http://youtu.be/XKAaO26FAvA

jdeere_man
01-15-2013, 21:37
I'm thinking you might need a license to build a firearm?

waawaaweenie
01-15-2013, 21:48
no license needed if not for sale

Ruggles
01-15-2013, 21:58
The light on my printer won't stop blinking so I am screwed on making these.....

jdeere_man
01-15-2013, 22:06
no license needed if not for sale

If they law bans possession of "assault" rifles what matters if you can print all them you want?

cesaros
01-15-2013, 22:06
Does having access to a drill press/mill, an AR-15 upper/lower jig, and a block of metal make gun control obsolete?

jdeere_man
01-15-2013, 22:14
Does having access to a drill press/mill, an AR-15 upper/lower jig, and a block of metal make gun control obsolete?

I think the point is 3d printers are probably less complex to operate for the common person. Basically upload a file to the machine and it spits it out. Metal work is a bit more complex. I understand there are cnc machines, but I'd have to think 3d printing will be more mainstream someday than metal cnc machines.

UtahIrishman
01-15-2013, 22:18
As I mentioned on another thread on the same topic 3-D printing is really not at the point where you can print out a "reliable" firearm and magazine. The technology is simply not there. Sure you can print out a gun but I wouldn't trust one. The plastics used in 3-D printing aren't strong enough.

We have a 3-D printer where I work, a very nice one, and it prints out some nice demo parts of our products but there is no way it is going to print out an AR-15 you can take to the range and shoot safely

cesaros
01-15-2013, 22:21
I think the point is 3d printers are probably less complex to operate for the common person. Basically upload a file to the machine and it spits it out. Metal work is a bit more complex. I understand there are cnc machines, but I'd have to think 3d printing will be more mainstream someday than metal cnc machines.

true, someday it may be mainstream.

But with a some simple instruction, you can mill your own AR upper/lower. There are places in Cali you can go to mill your incomplete AR, a machinist just stands there and tells you how to work the machine...Tah-Dah, unregistered AR-15 :supergrin:

RMTactical
01-15-2013, 22:47
As I mentioned on another thread on the same topic 3-D printing is really not at the point where you can print out a "reliable" firearm and magazine. The technology is simply not there. Sure you can print out a gun but I wouldn't trust one. The plastics used in 3-D printing aren't strong enough.

We have a 3-D printer where I work, a very nice one, and it prints out some nice demo parts of our products but there is no way it is going to print out an AR-15 you can take to the range and shoot safely

Yeah, with today's technology, they are probably not going to last the test of time, but technology will get better and better... and if you are a crazy guy like Adam Lanza or a convicted Felon, this is just one more easy way to make a gun that will work long enough for you to do your evil deed. What is the point of gun control if something like this is so damn easy to make.

Anyone can have an AR15 upper, LPK, buttstock shipped to their house. Print a 3D AR15 lower, add a 30 round mag... Heck, someone could do that in California right now and the authorities wouldn't likely know until you have another massacre on your hands.

jdeere_man
01-15-2013, 23:03
no license needed if not for sale

true, someday it may be mainstream.

But with a some simple instruction, you can mill your own AR upper/lower. There are places in Cali you can go to mill your incomplete AR, a machinist just stands there and tells you how to work the machine...Tah-Dah, unregistered AR-15 :supergrin:

so let me ask this. If a company in town owned a 3d printer capable of churning out ar lowers (I think that is achievable at this point and that is the firearm after all) would it be legal for them to "rent" their printer out for use? If I went into their facility and used the printer they owned, but simply being the person who hit the print button, would that make me the manufacturer of my own firearm and within the bounds of the law (meaning the company who owns the printer didn't make it and sell it)?

HalfHazzard
01-16-2013, 06:51
so let me ask this. If a company in town owned a 3d printer capable of churning out ar lowers (I think that is achievable at this point and that is the firearm after all) would it be legal for them to "rent" their printer out for use? If I went into their facility and used the printer they owned, but simply being the person who hit the print button, would that make me the manufacturer of my own firearm and within the bounds of the law (meaning the company who owns the printer didn't make it and sell it)?

That's the point of the guy who did it. If you have access to a 3D printer, you can build the parts you want. He leaves it up to you to get access (pay for it).

Bren
01-16-2013, 06:57
I'm thinking you might need a license to build a firearm?

No, you do not.

Also, do you people not realize firearms were built with hand tools before electricity? It's not like we suddenly acquired the ability to make guns at home because we have printable plastic. My uncle, who was an ATF agent, once busted a guy here in Kentucky for making MAC 10 submachineguns in his garage - you don't even need a kit, the MAC and M3 type submachineguns are simpler than the muzzleloaders gunsmiths used to make on their back porch.

People have always made guns at home - just not computer nerds on the internet.:upeyes:

Bren
01-16-2013, 06:59
so let me ask this. If a company in town owned a 3d printer capable of churning out ar lowers (I think that is achievable at this point and that is the firearm after all) would it be legal for them to "rent" their printer out for use? If I went into their facility and used the printer they owned, but simply being the person who hit the print button, would that make me the manufacturer of my own firearm and within the bounds of the law (meaning the company who owns the printer didn't make it and sell it)?

I understand there are people who do that now, but with real metal guns and CNC milling equipment.

1gewehr
01-16-2013, 09:50
I understand there are people who do that now, but with real metal guns and CNC milling equipment.

Yep, it's not 'rocket science'. Making guns is not difficult. And considering that there are more machine tools in American basements than there are in American factories, I don't think that it will be long before homebuilt firearms becomes a big business.

RMTactical
01-16-2013, 11:24
No, you do not.

Also, do you people not realize firearms were built with hand tools before electricity? It's not like we suddenly acquired the ability to make guns at home because we have printable plastic. My uncle, who was an ATF agent, once busted a guy here in Kentucky for making MAC 10 submachineguns in his garage - you don't even need a kit, the MAC and M3 type submachineguns are simpler than the muzzleloaders gunsmiths used to make on their back porch.

People have always made guns at home - just not computer nerds on the internet.:upeyes:

You don't think simply clicking a button and making weapons is a big leap over working with skilled laborers in a machine shop? This is a whole other level.

jdeere_man
01-16-2013, 14:47
You don't think simply clicking a button and making weapons is a big leap over working with skilled laborers in a machine shop? This is a whole other level.

My point exactly. Look I know people have been using their hands, tools, and metals to make weapons for centuries. To me the ability to walk up to a machine and press one button and drink a cup of coffee and almost magically before your eyes you have a receiver, or other gun parts, is different. Sure you still need metal components, but only the serialized part is the firearm.

I know there are probably a lot of folks on this board with knowledge, skills, and tools, to build guns. However today skills like that are in decline. 3d printing opens new windows to new people. I'm not saying this is an answer or better than metalworking, i'm just saying it is revolutionary.

Mike5560
01-16-2013, 22:24
My point exactly. Look I know people have been using their hands, tools, and metals to make weapons for centuries. To me the ability to walk up to a machine and press one button and drink a cup of coffee and almost magically before your eyes you have a receiver, or other gun parts, is different. Sure you still need metal components, but only the serialized part is the firearm.

I know there are probably a lot of folks on this board with knowledge, skills, and tools, to build guns. However today skills like that are in decline. 3d printing opens new windows to new people. I'm not saying this is an answer or better than metalworking, i'm just saying it is revolutionary.

People used to write chain mail letters actually using paper, envelopes and stamps. Now they can pass the information much quicker with some clicks for your email, twitter, Fb etc.

Now you dont need to research the dimensions of an AR-15 lower to build one. With a 3d printer you download the CAD file. And for sure the plastics will get better.

I'M Glockamolie
01-16-2013, 22:34
The light on my printer won't stop blinking so I am screwed on making these.....

Someone had to do it (NSFW language)...

Office Space - Printer Scene (from the movie) - YouTube

stk10767
01-16-2013, 22:34
Can't one just print out these lowers, use them to make a negative mold out of plaster or ceramic, then pour some type of molten pot metal like zinc? I would think that would be stronger than plastic.

railfancwb
01-16-2013, 22:49
Can't one just print out these lowers, use them to make a negative mold out of plaster or ceramic, then pour some type of molten pot metal like zinc? I would think that would be stronger than plastic.

Yes, in fact you could use the "investment" or "lost wax" casting process Ruger and others use. The plastic master would need to be oversize to allow for metal shrinkage.


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RMTactical
01-16-2013, 23:31
Can't one just print out these lowers, use them to make a negative mold out of plaster or ceramic, then pour some type of molten pot metal like zinc? I would think that would be stronger than plastic.

Now you're thinking!

VinnieD
01-17-2013, 00:54
Funny thing is. legally these are still just zip guns. Perfectly legal as long as you just make it for yourself, and don't transfer it. All this does is spread the knowledge and ability to do it. In the middle ages there were literate people, and there were people who could produce books, but the printing press made it available for everyone. I see what they're getting at here. The printing press of the second amendment. Will this technology take off and really become that? Time will tell.

DAIadvisor
01-17-2013, 03:21
I would definitely be interested in printing out an Hk G36 upper.... :) :) :)

Nakanokalronin
01-17-2013, 04:17
They tested the printed AR lower and it broke where the buffer tube screws in after one to 5 shots. It's a neat concept right now, but it's not quite up for real use yet as far as firearms go.

Thingiverse Reinforced AR Lower Test - YouTube


Here's part two with resin that seems to work okay, but I'm not sure how long it will last at this stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFhIxey5AXMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFhIxey5AXM

The magazines seem to work. If they can be printed extremely cheap, they would at least be good range mags and if they broke, just print another one.

» Breaking Printable AR 30-Round Magazines Now Available for Download, - YouTube

I like the concept, but I have no idea where I would find a 3D printer anywhere near me or if it's cost effective enough to make something so fragile at this point with the current materials used.

RMTactical
01-17-2013, 12:03
They tested the printed AR lower and it broke where the buffer tube screws in after one to 5 shots. It's a neat concept right now, but it's not quite up for real use yet as far as firearms go.

Thingiverse Reinforced AR Lower Test - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuDCW_Rn5JI)


Here's part two with resin that seems to work okay, but I'm not sure how long it will last at this stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFhIxey5AXMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFhIxey5AXM

The magazines seem to work. If they can be printed extremely cheap, they would at least be good range mags and if they broke, just print another one.

» Breaking Printable AR 30-Round Magazines Now Available for Download, - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltnIaABPG2I)

I like the concept, but I have no idea where I would find a 3D printer anywhere near me or if it's cost effective enough to make something so fragile at this point with the current materials used.

These guys got one that lasted 80 rounds... this technology will just keep improving.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/01/major-improvements-have-been-made-in-3d.html

Glock30Eric
01-17-2013, 12:08
No, you do not.

Also, do you people not realize firearms were built with hand tools before electricity? It's not like we suddenly acquired the ability to make guns at home because we have printable plastic. My uncle, who was an ATF agent, once busted a guy here in Kentucky for making MAC 10 submachineguns in his garage - you don't even need a kit, the MAC and M3 type submachineguns are simpler than the muzzleloaders gunsmiths used to make on their back porch.

People have always made guns at home - just not computer nerds on the internet.:upeyes:

Yeah you can order DYI build guns books through Amazon. I have saved those for future purchase.

Nakanokalronin
01-17-2013, 13:46
These guys got one that lasted 80 rounds... this technology will just keep improving.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/01/major-improvements-have-been-made-in-3d.html

It's improving, but it won't be worth it until it can last as long as an aluminum or poly lower. Does anyone know how much it costs to print one single lower anyway?

Bren
01-17-2013, 14:00
Yeah you can order DYI build guns books through Amazon. I have saved those for future purchase.

It's the knowledge of how to make something as simple as a gun that makes gun control obsolete.

Why don't we drink whisky from a still in the woods (OK, I actually do, fairly often - but most people)? because we can get cheaper (sometimes better) whisky from a liquor store without breaking any laws. What happens if whisky becomes illegal? Same as last time, we know how to make it so we would. There is some indication it would also be more popular if it was homemade and illegal.

Why don't we make guns in our garages? because we can get cheaper and better guns, easier, at the gun shop. What happens if guns become illegal? Guys make them with hand tools, just like they did in the 1700's and 1800's. One predicatble effect of that, is that the homemade guns would be full-auto, since nothing is easier to make than a submachinegun, and we'd include short barrels, silencers and all the stuff they regulate now - a black market is a wide open market.

RMTactical
01-17-2013, 15:14
It's improving, but it won't be worth it until it can last as long as an aluminum or poly lower. Does anyone know how much it costs to print one single lower anyway?

You're missing the point. Any common criminal could print off an AR15 lower, have the rest of the parts sent to his house and have a gun long enough to do some dirty business. He doesn't have to train with it to kill people or rob a bank.

I'm just saying that gun control cannot stop that.

Nakanokalronin
01-17-2013, 15:44
You're missing the point. Any common criminal could print off an AR15 lower, have the rest of the parts sent to his house and have a gun long enough to do some dirty business. He doesn't have to train with it to kill people or rob a bank.

I'm just saying that gun control cannot stop that.

The point was about how the lowers would hold up. Now you're talking about illegal activity with them. Do you think these should not exist or what? :dunno:

In any case, I've never even seen a 3D printer in real life although they've been around since the 90's. Where does one go to just print off an AR15 lower and how much does it cost?

Having one made somewhere would be making a non-transferable firearm that the print shop could not sell. This means one would have to buy a printer and all of the equipment to do so. How much does all that start-up cost and how much knowledge is needed to operate and program one? I don't see some gangbanger going to Kinkos and leaving with an AR lower. :rofl:

In any case, making a gun is not illegal as long as one dosn't sell it. I would really like to see this technology get better, but I think we're a ways off where everyone has a 3D printer in their home.

RMTactical
01-17-2013, 16:56
The point was about how the lowers would hold up. Now you're talking about illegal activity with them. Do you think these should not exist or what? :dunno:

In any case, I've never even seen a 3D printer in real life although they've been around since the 90's. Where does one go to just print off an AR15 lower and how much does it cost?

Having one made somewhere would be making a non-transferable firearm that the print shop could not sell. This means one would have to buy a printer and all of the equipment to do so. How much does all that start-up cost and how much knowledge is needed to operate and program one? I don't see some gangbanger going to Kinkos and leaving with an AR lower. :rofl:

In any case, making a gun is not illegal as long as one dosn't sell it. I would really like to see this technology get better, but I think we're a ways off where everyone has a 3D printer in their home.

No, we are talking about how these kinds of things make gun control obsolete. Isn't the point of gun control to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals? Supposedly.

jakebrake
01-17-2013, 16:59
The light on my printer won't stop blinking so I am screwed on making these.....

how big of an ink cartridge do you need for this?

Nakanokalronin
01-17-2013, 17:23
No, we are talking about how these kinds of things make gun control obsolete. Isn't the point of gun control to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of criminals? Supposedly.

Ah, okay. Well yea....I mean no, gun control is not to keep guns out of criminal hands. Never have, never will. Has a ban on anything in the world ever stopped that thing from happening? I'd like to be able to print AR range mags for myself at home, but I'll wait until the printers are cheap enough and small enough for home use. Who knows how long that will be.

GLJones
01-17-2013, 18:29
You can't uninvent something. It is only going to get easier to produce anything you want, legal or not.

There are already 3-D printers that can create metal items using aluminum and other metals. They are VERY expensive right now but in 10 years, it may be possible to have one in your home for a decent price. At that point, we are going to see many issues with rights for designs and patents as anyone can produce anything in their own home. It will be near impossible to stop people from printing a firearm, or at least the registered part.

That said, what keeps someone from producing a gun using the same serial number as another gun? Unless they catch a couple with the same number, you could have dozens stored and use them interchangeably as they wear or you rotate them.

UtahIrishman
01-17-2013, 21:23
I predict in less than ten years owning a 3-D printer will either be illegal or subject to very stringent rules.

Remember you heard it here first.

GlockPride
01-17-2013, 21:42
I predict in less than ten years owning a 3-D printer will either be illegal or subject to very stringent rules.

Remember you heard it here first.

Ban the 3D printers- it's for the cccchhhhiillllddddrrrreeennnn!!!!

:cool:

Glock30Eric
01-17-2013, 22:07
I predict in less than ten years owning a 3-D printer will either be illegal or subject to very stringent rules.

Remember you heard it here first.

Wow! We all should be rich cuz we could forecast the future!!!!! ;) it's way obvious for a reason.

TK-421
01-18-2013, 00:07
If they law bans possession of "assault" rifles what matters if you can print all them you want?

The fact that they won't be evil black rifles, we can paint them happy colors, like pink, light blue, or a nice green. :rofl: