Future of Gen 3? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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sharp
01-16-2013, 23:24
With the advent of Gen 4 models, I do not understand why Glock would continue to manufacture Gen 3's. Yeah I hear that Gen 4's are plagued with problems (haven't had any issues with mine) but won't Glock get those ironed out and just mfg the Gen 4? Also I don't know why they still make the G20/21 and G29/30' with the advent of the "SF" models. I mean, with that logic, they might as well continue making Gen 1 and Gen 2 guns :supergrin:. Thoughts?

nutty_one
01-17-2013, 00:15
They perfected the design with the 3rd gen frame. Everything since has been messing with perfection. Glock has stopped innovating and has been playing the imitating game for a while. Glock still makes good guns, but they seriously need a breath of fresh air. More than a few (despite what a few folks here claim) people have been begging Glock for real single stacks (and I don't mean that bastard red headed step child the G36) for over a decade. Glock says "tough". It took them more than a decade to get with the backstrap program and admit that yes, not everyone has mongoloid hands to operate our uber wundergun effectively.

And because Glock can't or won't introduce the models the gun buying public has been begging for - Kahr Arms, Springfield, and Smith & Wesson have been making leaps and bounds in both civilian and law enforcement markets.

My wife got her first handgun recently. She really likes the Glock trigger, but couldn't find a model in their lineup that really fit her. She wound up buying a Kahr TP45 - which is arguably the gun that Glock should have made instead of the 36. It's lighter. It's thinner. It has 7+1 capacity. A woman with small hands can get her hand damn near completely around the grip. Now she wants a P9 or CW9 to compliment the 45. We would've gladly gone Glock, if they made such creatures.

I don't see the 3rd gen models going away any time soon - not with the issues the 4th gen guns seem to be having. I love my Glocks - god knows I've bought plenty of them - but I will *not* buy a 4th gen gun, ever. If they kill the gen 3, I won't buy any new glocks - I'll be going the way of Smith & Wesson or Springfield Armory, and/or buying used Glocks.

sharp
01-17-2013, 00:25
They perfected the design with the 3rd gen frame. Everything since has been messing with perfection.

IMO, people will one day be saying that very thing about the Gen 4 guns.

TheGlockTalker
01-17-2013, 00:44
IMO, people will one day be saying that very thing about the Gen 4 guns.


Gen3 didn't have nearly the problems of the gen4's.

M3Rocket
01-17-2013, 05:01
Gen 3's will still be manufactured for awhile is my guess. If nothing else, for the CA market since the Gen 4's are not on the roster. If they discontinue Gen 3's, all the CA dealers will have no Glocks to sell to the average Joe.

Major changes would have been required on the Gen 4 designs to get them on the CA roster. Gen 3's were granfathered in. Most new Glocks sold here are Gen 3's with LEO or the very few SSE exceptions.

conpro
01-17-2013, 05:22
with the advent of gen 4 models, i do not understand why glock would continue to manufacture gen 3's. Yeah i hear that gen 4's are plagued with problems (haven't had any issues with mine) but won't glock get those ironed out and just mfg the gen 4? Also i don't know why they still make the g20/21 and g29/30' with the advent of the "sf" models. I mean, with that logic, they might as well continue making gen 1 and gen 2 guns :supergrin:. Thoughts?

ford still makes trucks, fusions, focus, mustang. Its the line of weapons they sell.

Bruce M
01-17-2013, 05:30
My guess is that the third generation versions are still popular. My other guess is that the third generation models are still profitable for Glock. My other other guess is that when the third generation models cease to make a profit for Glock, or something else makes more of a profit for Glock, they will be discontinued.

HexHead
01-17-2013, 05:42
They'll continue to make Gen3s until the CA DOJ approval for them expires. As for the guy above complaining Glocks don't fit his wife, you're not their market. None of us civilians are their driving market, regardless of what the general consensus on a website thinks. They don't make a single stack pocket pistol because it's not a priority for them. Their primary market is to produce handguns for the military and police markets, and they're selling every gun they make. Worldwide, the civilian market is just icing on the cake. And civilians tend to buy what the military or police are using anyway.

Shiloh228
01-17-2013, 06:23
Gen 3's will still be manufactured for awhile is my guess. If nothing else, for the CA market since the Gen 4's are not on the roster. If they discontinue Gen 3's, all the CA dealers will have no Glocks to sell to the average Joe.

Major changes would have been required on the Gen 4 designs to get them on the CA roster. Gen 3's were granfathered in. Most new Glocks sold here are Gen 3's with LEO or the very few SSE exceptions.
PMFJI...

Just curious why Gen 4s are not allowed in CA...

Bill Lumberg
01-17-2013, 07:05
They're not plagued with anything in actuality. But I too was somewhat puzzled by keeping 3's and bringing on 4's at the same time. I get that some benefit from a different backstrap. I really don't have a preference between gen 3 and gen 4, have had no problems out of either, but I prefer a C model, and that isn't part of gen 4 production. With the advent of Gen 4 models, I do not understand why Glock would continue to manufacture Gen 3's. Yeah I hear that Gen 4's are plagued with problems (haven't had any issues with mine) but won't Glock get those ironed out and just mfg the Gen 4? Also I don't know why they still make the G20/21 and G29/30' with the advent of the "SF" models. I mean, with that logic, they might as well continue making Gen 1 and Gen 2 guns :supergrin:. Thoughts?

Arc Angel
01-17-2013, 08:40
:upeyes: Why should I care? I've already got my Tenifer-treated 3rd generation pistols. If I should ever want another Glock I'll just look for a good used 3rd gen. pistol. The gen 3's ARE the most perfected of all the Glock generations. Glock, GmbH fully realized this, as well as the market acceptance 3rd gen. pistols enjoy, when they came out with their poorly thoughtout (fakakta) Gen4 pistols. Happy with your Gen4? Again, who cares! ;)

sharp
01-17-2013, 09:48
:upeyes: Why should I care? I've already got my Tenifer-treated 3rd generation pistols. If I should ever want another Glock I'll just look for a good used 3rd gen. pistol. The gen 3's ARE the most perfected of all the Glock generations. Glock, GmbH fully realized this, as well as the market acceptance 3rd gen. pistols enjoy, when they came out with their poorly thoughtout (fakakta) Gen4 pistols. Happy with your Gen4? Again, who cares! ;)

You must care, otherwise why click the thread and post? LOL. Don't the Gen4 have Tenifer treatment? If not, that's news to me.

M3Rocket
01-17-2013, 12:40
PMFJI...

Just curious why Gen 4s are not allowed in CA...

I remember a couple of things that my dealer told me a year ago--they don't have a CA compliant loaded chamber indicator, and something about not being able to pull the trigger when there is no mag in the gun?

SCmasterblaster
01-17-2013, 12:49
I have a Gen 3 G17 and I love it!

Kentguy
01-17-2013, 13:12
Bruce M..."My other guess is that the third generation models are still profitable for Glock."

BINGO>>> Give that man a cigar! :agree:

Arc Angel
01-17-2013, 13:24
You must care, otherwise why click the thread and post? LOL. Don't the Gen4 have Tenifer treatment? If not, that's news to me.

:shame: No, ....... that is a HUGE assumption! I truly don't care; it's simply a comment on my part. As for Tenifer? It's an expensive time consuming manufacturing process; and, here, Glock, GmbH joins me in not really giving a, 'tinker's damn' about how their new pistols are finished. (Reductions in the Tenifer process have been going on for a long time!) ;)

sharp
01-17-2013, 14:07
:shame: No, ....... that is a HUGE assumption! I truly don't care; it's simply a comment on my part. As for Tenifer? It's an expensive time consuming manufacturing process; and, here, Glock, GmbH joins me in not really giving a, 'tinker's damn' about how their new pistols are finished. (Reductions in the Tenifer process have been going on for a long time!) ;)

So are you saying that they're NOT Tenifer treated or they have LESS Tenifer somehow? Source? Not that it really matters to me living in AZ. Never had a spec of rust on any gun ever, and I'm not real good at cleaning post shooting:). Thanks.

kda
01-17-2013, 15:05
I'm pretty happy I managed to fulfill my needs when Gen 3s were widely available. I think the Gen 4s are pretty much a roll of the dice right now and that is a hassle I don't want or need. I'm really happy for those who bought a Gen 4 and are getting along fine but then there are the rest of the Gen 4 owners, some of whom I'm sure are finally just giving up and dumping their Gen 4 onto the used market. I'm with the guy above (nutty one). If my only option in the future is Gen 4, then I'll be looking elsewhere.

Well one exception. If I can find a dealer that wants to sell me a Gen 4 and let me put a couple thousand rounds through it and then return it for a full cash refund if I have any issues, then I'd probably take a chance on one.

F106 Fan
01-17-2013, 15:07
PMFJI...

Just curious why Gen 4s are not allowed in CA...

The big issue is that CA wants a magazine disconnect such that the weapon won't fire when the magazine is removed.

I think the loaded chamber indicator is OK (part of extractor) but I have seen guns with the LCI on the top of the slide. I don't know what the requirement is. I suspect that CA wants it on top where it is easily visible.

Listing on the registry of approved weapons doesn't expire unless a manufacturer allows it to expire by not paying a periodic fee. Every year, hundreds of guns are allowed to expire.

There are a lot of weapons that were grandfathered and are still being sold. All of the 1911s got there that way because they still don't have a magazine disconnect.

Guns that were introduced after the legislation must comply and the Gen 4s were and don't. The Gen 3s were grandfathered.

We're a pretty big market, not something to be taken lightly. I suspect the Gen 3s will be around for a long time.

Richard

Ryobi
01-17-2013, 16:07
Newer glocks are not finished/treated with tenifer. Source glock director at glock in 2012. Haven't experienced any downside or finish problems with recent production gen 3 or gen 4 duty guns. I don't like the change given how great the older ones have held up, but no deficiencies in the new ones so far. So are you saying that they're NOT Tenifer treated or they have LESS Tenifer somehow? Source? Not that it really matters to me living in AZ. Never had a spec of rust on any gun ever, and I'm not real good at cleaning post shooting:). Thanks.

sharp
01-17-2013, 16:59
Newer glocks are not finished/treated with tenifer. Source glock director at glock in 2012. Haven't experienced any downside or finish problems with recent production gen 3 or gen 4 duty guns. I don't like the change given how great the older ones have held up, but no deficiencies in the new ones so far.

Thanks I did not know that! Same for Gen 4 and new production Gen 3?

TexasPOff
01-17-2013, 22:13
Thanks I did not know that! Same for Gen 4 and new production Gen 3?

Yes all new production gen 3 and 4th gen pistols do not have the tenifer treatment. They do have a corrosion resistant finish, but it isn't the Tenifer process.

The new finish uses gas as the medium to deliver the corrosion resistant chemical. The original or traditional Tenifer treatment used a liquid bath to deliver the corrosion resistant chemicals.

TXPO

Shiloh228
01-18-2013, 08:32
Yes all new production gen 3 and 4th gen pistols do not have the tenifer treatment. They do have a corrosion resistant finish, but it isn't the Tenifer process.

The new finish uses gas as the medium to deliver the corrosion resistant chemical. The original or traditional Tenifer treatment used a liquid bath to deliver the corrosion resistant chemicals.

TXPO
What's the expert opinion on the new process? Better? Worse? No difference?

Z71bill
01-18-2013, 10:05
This may be a surprise to some - Glock has competition - and some of the things they do are because of the competition. :shocked:

Just an observation - but it seems reasonable.

Companies like to raise selling prices when they introduce a new model -

Keeping the old model around - maybe even at a discount - is a common business strategy.

In nice round numbers as an example - something like this --

GEN4 G19 prices at $599, GEN3 G19 $519 while S&W is selling the M&P for $549.

If someone really wants the GEN4 they will pay an extra $50 over a S&W M&P - but some guys are more price sensitive - if they only have the choice between a $599 GEN4 and a $549 M&P they will go M&P.

These customers will take the $519 GEN3 and be happy.

danysw
01-18-2013, 10:18
A month ago I was planning to buy a G19 and as many other the question was: Gen3 or Gen4? The answer was easy, Gen3 because for me is “Best Glock ever made” and cheaper than Gen4. I think there are hundreds of thousands buyers like me. That’s the answer why Glock is still making Gen3.

IllinoisGun
01-18-2013, 16:05
They'll probably always be a demand for the Gen 3's.
Methinks they aren't going anywhere for a while.

sharp
01-18-2013, 16:05
I have another theory I just came up with. I just noticed that all my recent Gen 3's (several purchased in the last couple months) have the "old style" (no ambi cut) magazines. Maybe Glock has 100's of thousands of the old Gen 3 mags and need to use them up. They could sell them but I'm guessing they would rather sell only Gen 4 mags because they will work in all previous Gen's. Of course they do work in Gen 4 guns as well, as long as you keep the mag release on the left side of the frame:)

bigcix
01-18-2013, 20:14
Only way to get a Gen 4 in California is if your are law enforcement.

mrsurfboard
01-19-2013, 01:39
Once the entire Glock Line is transitioned to Gen 4, production of the Gen 3s will stop.

M3Rocket
01-19-2013, 01:42
Only way to get a Gen 4 in California is if your are law enforcement.

Or via SSE exemption. Or private party transfer. :cool:

Seawolf
01-19-2013, 03:56
Meanwhile the S&W M&P just gets better and better. I have a lot of money tied up in Glock with holsters, mags, parts, etc, but after purchasing the Shield and having tried other M&P pistols that friends own I am seriously considering a big switch. At the price Glocks are going for right now I could make a huge profit on the mags alone.

FWIW I have had no issues with my Gen4 G23 and I think Glock could have done themselves a favor by leaving the Gen4 9mm models a single spring design instead of taking the easy way out and making the 23 and 19 the exact same spring. They tried to cover this up by telling everyone to shoot 124grn ammo not realizing that people train with 115grn.
Anyway, everyone clumps all the Gen4 guns in together, but the only ones with the issues are the 9mm versions for the reason I stated. If I was going to buy a 40S&W and up I would def get a Gen4. If I was going to buy a G19 or 17 I would get a Gen 3 unless of course you absolutely need the SF frame. The 9mm doesnt need a dual spring and it was stupid of them to do that.