Does attaching light negatively affect polymer gun performance? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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vandros
01-20-2013, 08:56
Hi there! After watching this vid vid that shows just how much polymer frame of Glock flexes, I started to wonder how attaching lights might impact gun reliability and performance. I've asked our local gunsmith, and he said that, yes, lights attached to Glock polymer frames can sometimes result in failure to eject or even double feeds.

The metal clamps of my TLR-1 very firmly grab my g29 frame, which without a doubt reduces frame flexing. I wonder what's everyone's experience has been with this? Do you notice any weird behavior in your Glocks when attaching lights to it? Does Glock Co. test their guns with lights attached as extensively as guns without any attachments?

uaengineer
01-20-2013, 09:18
Well you should put several hundred rounds downrange in your gun with your light installed to ensure it reliably functions. If I'm not mistaken the issue used to be with Gen 3 G22's primarily? My G21 runs flawlessly with a TLR-1s or X300.

maestrogustav
01-20-2013, 09:40
My G22gen4 is perfect with 100rds so far.

It was indeed the G22gen3s that were known to have issues.

I would like to know if there is any sign of issues with genes.

24601
01-20-2013, 09:41
when shooting 40 through a gen3 32C with my surefire x300, i noticed an unacceptable amount of FTF...maybe 2 or three per mag....i installed wolf +10% mag springs which helped some....also had to experiment with different RSAs....it's much better now, but i still get a FTF once in a while....but i don't carry 40 for SD or i'd be really hacked...it's just to switch things up at the range when i get bored of 357 or 9.... i mean, i guess i should be hacked to begin with seeing as the gun was designed for an attachment and it isn't working 100% with a light attached, but not every gen3 full frame/compact had that issue....i just got 'lucky'.....

maestrogustav
01-20-2013, 09:45
That video is pretty bad; is there no ejector in the gun?

Also I don't get the point of the various numbers of rounds in the mag

Also 24601 what's an acceptable number of FTFs?

vandros
01-20-2013, 10:09
That video is pretty bad; is there no ejector in the gun?

Also I don't get the point of the various numbers of rounds in the mag

Also 24601 what's an acceptable number of FTFs?

Yes, I think the ejector was taken out. I think the slo mo glock operation in hi def is pretty neat to see. I never thought the frame flexes nearly as much as it actually does in the vid.

24601
01-20-2013, 10:21
Also 24601 what's an acceptable number of FTFs?


well, i guess my wording was off....FTF shouldn't be acceptable for a carry gun, but I don't carry 40...i use 357....a couple FTF here when i swap out barrels to shoot 40 at the range is fine with me because i gives me extra practice for clearing malfunctions...sometimes i intentionally buy really crappy ammo and head out to the range just for the malfunction practice....so that's what i meant....

Kcolg
01-21-2013, 10:12
Definately an issue with lights attached. Our Dept. has been working with our regions Glock Rep on the issues. And I know two other Depts. next door have had issues as well. All with Glock .40 both Gen 3 and 4. We have Gen 3's and its not every gun but about half of them. It ejects fine but shoves the next round nose down into the mag causing the slide to either hang up or close with an empty chamber. It's always between rounds 3 and 7 that it does it. One of the other Depts that had the same problems upgraded to Gen 4's for a $50 price difference just over a year ago and now that some of the guns are hitting 500 to 1k rounds they are having the issue again. Glock Rep tried new guide rods and it still failed, put new mag springs in and worked until the 3rd time being loaded then it failed again (may spring had shrunk down like the old ones we swapped out. Glock Rep then opened up a new Gen 4 he had and on the 3rd mag it had a jam with a light. We use Streamlight TLR-1 and 2 and the old M3 and all caused jams. Glock Rep is at a lose and we are debating going to 9mm except for the reports of brass to the face. All work fine with no light. But we've spent a lot of $ on lights and holsters for both street and SRT. At this point Glock says the weight on the end speeds up the slide and it doesn't pick up the next round or violently (their word) shoves it down into the magazine causing a nose down jam.

uaengineer
01-21-2013, 11:04
Are there any reports out there on this happening with other brands like XD40 or M&P40? Seems like Glock needs to take a look at their RSA for the 40's if they're going to keep the same size and weight profile as the 9mm's and more than likely using universal mag springs. I guess an available quick fix to try is stiffer mag springs at the expense of raping your thumbs when loading your mags or either balance the weight at the back of the gun, but that's not practical unless the dept wants to make 22 round mags standard issue. :thumbsup:

Markel
01-21-2013, 15:44
I have a Glock 35/TLR-1 combo and have 1,250 rounds through it with no problems to date. I just mounted a TLR-2s, so I'll see how it compares since it is a bit heavier than the TLR-1.

Btw, about half of the rounds fired have been .40 S&W and the other half .357 SIG using a KKM barrel.

got_metal
01-22-2013, 19:37
I was out today with my G22 Gen 3 and TLR-1s, specifically to test the function with the light attached. Shot 80 rounds of .40 and the first 2 rounds of the first mag both failed to feed, the rest fed fine, both slow and rapid fire. Not sure if this was a grip issue in the beginning or not. Also tried the "limp wrist" test with a full mag and it fed fine.

I also shot 80 rounds of 9mm (conversion barrel) with the light attached, no issues.

If it keeps getting a couple fails every range trip, I may try a TRL-3 instead.

GWG19
01-23-2013, 07:50
I use a Insight XML. Very small and very light weight. Cost about $40.
I have 3 of them. One was has several 1000 rounds fired with it on different guns. A SA 357 Sig XD, SA 45LE 45 Gap, Colt Rail Gun, Glock 21, Glock 34. It has not affected the functioning any. The weight on this light is closer to the trigger guard than some lights. I have tried different lights and the big thing that I noticed was how muzzle heavy they made the pistol feel. The XML has a slight increase but not much.
If you are using it for home defense or personal defense it should be fine.

Bill Lumberg
01-23-2013, 11:30
Zero problems with glock 23 and 22's, across tens of thousands of rounds, with M3, M3X, and TLR-1's. Using commonly available range and duty rounds. Never enountered at the range, nor talked to any other agency with problems. The TLR-1 is a much higher quality light than the M3's, but none caused any malfunctions for us. That being the case, you still should test fire your weapon with anything you plan to keep attached to it.

FLglockdude
01-23-2013, 11:40
My M&P9 has been flawless over 2500+ rounds with a TLR-1 mounted.

Sent from my Obama phone.

raven11
01-23-2013, 15:24
My Walther P99 and Caracal F ran fine with a TLR-3 on

NDCent
01-23-2013, 15:37
1000 to 1500 rounds through gen4 G35 with tlr-2, no problems.

concretefuzzynuts
01-23-2013, 15:42
On a related note: I don't mount lights on my guns. If I'm trying to find out what that bump in the middle of the night was, I don't want to point a weapon at a family member or friend to recognize who's there. Light in free hand.

I don't judge you if you mount a light on your gun, just food for thought.

concretefuzzynuts
01-23-2013, 15:46
Double tap. What?

vandros
01-23-2013, 16:05
If I'm trying to find out what that bump in the middle of the night was, I don't want to point a weapon at a family member or friend to recognize who's there. Light in free hand..

I hear this argument a lot from people I respect - so you are in good company :)

However, I was wondering if you could point the light a bit to the side, to address this valid concern? Today's lights, like TLR/surefire/etc. seem bright enough to illuminate the entire room...

Not trying to argue - rather figure it out for myself.

Bren
01-23-2013, 16:14
That video is pretty bad; is there no ejector in the gun?


That's what I was about to post - it has to be missing or broken.

On the Youtube page, the guys says it wouldn't eject because of the adjustment of the ransome rest, but that slide went all the way back without the brass ever touching an ejector, so I think he's wrong.

RyanNREMTP
01-23-2013, 18:48
I hear this argument a lot from people I respect - so you are in good company :)

However, I was wondering if you could point the light a bit to the side, to address this valid concern? Today's lights, like TLR/surefire/etc. seem bright enough to illuminate the entire room...

Not trying to argue - rather figure it out for myself.

What I hear is recommended is to primarily use a second flashlight. Use the weapon light when you need the other hand to do something like open a door or something.

ranger1968
01-23-2013, 18:55
I did a class yesterday ; over the course of the day, I had 4 groups of cops , between 15 and 20 shooters per group, everybody shooting a Gen 2 (the old guys), Gen 3, or Gen 4 Glock 22,23, 19, or 17, and everybody with either a TLR1 or an X-300; the students fired about 300 rounds each, so it worked out to about 21,000 rounds for the day;

No malfunctions.

concretefuzzynuts
01-23-2013, 21:33
I hear this argument a lot from people I respect - so you are in good company :)

However, I was wondering if you could point the light a bit to the side, to address this valid concern? Today's lights, like TLR/surefire/etc. seem bright enough to illuminate the entire room...

Not trying to argue - rather figure it out for myself.

I deserve little respect. I am a typed opinion on the internet.

Thanks.

Bill Lumberg
01-24-2013, 05:57
Anyone who thinks that using a weapon light requires the weapon to be pointed at the threat in order to illuminate it has no experience using weapon lights. When I was first introduced to mounted lights, I thought the same thing- great, a light that can only be used when you're pointing your gun at someone or something. That couldn't be further from the truth. Weapon lights aren't that useful for novices or anyone who has not been trained and had time to practice using them. That said, weapon lights provide significant illumination from the low ready. Threats all the way down a hallway or alley are easily identified, even with the gun pointed down at the ground, at a 45 degree-ish angle. Weapon lights do not do everything a handheld flashlight can do. But for law enforcement use or some home protection use, they can be excellent. Back to your regularly scheduled topic. I hear this argument a lot from people I respect - so you are in good company :)

However, I was wondering if you could point the light a bit to the side, to address this valid concern? Today's lights, like TLR/surefire/etc. seem bright enough to illuminate the entire room...

Not trying to argue - rather figure it out for myself.

jerrylo913
01-28-2013, 17:30
gen 4 g19 with surefire x300 ultra. no issues here after 200+ rounds

Jim85IROC
01-31-2013, 15:00
I can't remember where I found it, but I had read that there was an issue specific to the G22 that resulted in too much slide speed, which when combined with the harmonics change resulting from putting a light on the rail, caused FTF problems. It went on to say that the G35 seemed not to exhibit this problem due to the longer slide traveling slower.

vandros
02-04-2013, 20:45
shot 50 rounds of underwood and double tap ammo with g29 and TLR-1 attached today. had one weird malfunction on the very last round: the slide locked as if the mag was empty, however, there was one round left in the mag. I might have pushed the slide stop lever up inadvertently - although this never happened to me with any glock before, so I kind of doubt that's what caused this malfunction...

d123gaw
02-05-2013, 23:43
My gen 3 G23 doesn't like HST or Gold Dots (i've tried 180, 165, and 155gr GDs) with a X300 light attatched. Take the light off and it does fine with the HP rounds. Shooting any FMJ rounds it has always cycled with the light. If I hold the gun loosely (limp wrist) it seems to do better while the light is attatched.

I've shot some 135gr Rangers with the light with no FTF through one full mag. I think the sharper taper of the bullet helps the feeding issue.

I saw in another post that Glock says it's a weight thing...
I'm inclined to agree. The light itself is kinda loose on the rail so I think the frame can still flex some.

I want to try taking the batteries out and the tail cap off and try the Gold Dots again to see if it is a weight thing or a flex thing.

I don't know much and I'm no pro but I've shot a lot of dirt trying to find a 100% reliable load.

EDIT: I put + power mag springs in two mags and still had FTF with gold dots. The Ranger ammo was shot through the + power mags.

F_G
02-06-2013, 19:25
It appears this issue is predominately with the .40 cal guns?

I've run an Insight WX150 on both a 19 and a 30 through hundreds of rounds and never a problem.

bakon
02-24-2013, 18:37
My gen 3 G23 duty gun will jam or FTF on every other round with a TLR-2s attached. Works flawless for 15 years without light. Light sits in locker.

hal13
02-25-2013, 13:31
No problem with G21 and TLR-2

PVolk
02-25-2013, 13:55
A TLR1s installed on my gen3 G23 has positivily affected it. I get less muzzle rise and it seems less snappy now. Zero issues with reliability.

ohiostate
02-25-2013, 19:30
TLR-1 was going to be my next buy fore the G22?? hate to pay 100 plus$$ on one and cannot use it... got 1 fore sale cheap?? thanks WORM

PVolk
02-26-2013, 08:15
TLR-1 was going to be my next buy fore the G22?? hate to pay 100 plus$$ on one and cannot use it... got 1 fore sale cheap?? thanks WORM
If you find you cannot or do not like using it, it would at least be easy to flip and probably at a very small loss. It's probably the best selling pistol light on the market right now.

Obi Wan
02-27-2013, 10:22
TLR-1 was going to be my next buy fore the G22?? hate to pay 100 plus$$ on one and cannot use it... got 1 fore sale cheap?? thanks WORM
Go ahead and buy it and try it. If you don't like it, contact me as I may be looking to pick up a TLR-1 for another project.

Kcolg
03-01-2013, 08:51
Those reporting issues with a light, is it Gen 3 or Gen 4?

We are still having issues on Gen 3's M22 with a light attached. Most recent cases were on 2-8-13 during a qualification course one officer out of 4 testing that day had his light attached and had 4 failures in 50 rounds. Gun was taken down and had RSA, all mag springs, and trigger assembly replaced and shot fine for the next 50 rounds. Same officer and gun went to qualifications again on 02-19-13 and had 2 failures again with the new parts. Light attached was a TLR1.

Most recent was 2-27-13 with 2 more officers and guns with M3 lights attached. Fail to feed next round with round jammed in magazine nose down. One Officer did a tap rack and the slide closed, but on an empy chamber still. He had to remove the magazine and hit the side of it to get the round to correct itself. Both had 4 failures out of a 50 round qualification.

Honestly not sure where to go from here other than remove your lights. As stated earlier have another local PD now having same issue with Gen4 M22's now that they have 500-1500 rounds through them. Maybe go to M17's? Not heard any issues on them....

Luminary
03-01-2013, 21:47
My Glock 19 ran flawlessly with a TLR-1 attached. It was a PITA cleaning all that carbon off the lens though..

DeLo
03-01-2013, 21:58
Anyone who thinks that using a weapon light requires the weapon to be pointed at the threat in order to illuminate it has no experience using weapon lights. When I was first introduced to mounted lights, I thought the same thing- great, a light that can only be used when you're pointing your gun at someone or something. That couldn't be further from the truth. Weapon lights aren't that useful for novices or anyone who has not been trained and had time to practice using them. That said, weapon lights provide significant illumination from the low ready. Threats all the way down a hallway or alley are easily identified, even with the gun pointed down at the ground, at a 45 degree-ish angle. Weapon lights do not do everything a handheld flashlight can do. But for law enforcement use or some home protection use, they can be excellent. Back to your regularly scheduled topic.

So if just for low ready and not for a blinding effect then why not use a OEM Glock light? I assume the reason for the Failures is the weight of the light or the screw being to tight. Wouldn't a polymer light help both of those? Purely a question, and based on HD and not LE.

willy1094
03-01-2013, 22:15
I have a G23 and just put a TLR-1s on it. I had never had any FTFs with it but had two last time we took it to the range(WWB 150 rounds). Both times the wife was shooting so I'll have to rule out "limp wrist" but that will be a while since ammo is hard to come by.

Doughnutman_923
03-07-2013, 08:44
If the light is clamped too tightly on the rail, or if the light weighs too much it may have issues. We have 15 Gen 3 G22's with Insight M6's and the run flawlessly. The Sheriff's Dept has about 47 gen3 and gen 4 G22's with M6's and as far as I know, and have seen at the range, they all run good.

But I have heard of lights causing issues with Glock's before.

Dalton Wayne
03-07-2013, 10:01
The issue with lights was only with gen 3 Glock 22's and TLR lights all other lights and gun combo's worked fine, I have a Glock gen 3 22 with a Glock light/laser combo works great....