HK45 or Sig Sauer P220 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Andy W
01-20-2013, 14:53
So I'm looking at getting a .45 and looking to branch out from Glocks and M&Ps. The Sig Sauer p220 and HK45/45c look interesting. Which would you buy? Which is more ergonomic for smaller size hands?


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nursetim
01-20-2013, 15:02
I had an H&K P30 that I thought was very ergonomic, but it is partially plastic which makes a differance to some. I also had a P220 that was an excellent weapon. All metal frame, heavy, which helps with recoil AND when you run out of ammo you can still kill a puma with it due to the heft.

Green Dragoon
01-20-2013, 15:03
I had the same choice a couple of months back. I have many .45's....all 1911's.

I wanted either the Sig or HK45 to add to the collection.

I went with the HK45:

* personal/subjective appeal
* overall reputation
* can carry it condition 1 like my 1911's.
* ergonomics (fits my hand better than the Sig)
* it will mostly be a "fun" gun....range shooting, and I wanted something that not everyone has.


Those are some pretty "frilly" reasons (except for the ergonomics). There just what floated my boat.

I'm sure you could do well with either choice. If you have small hands, the HK may fit better with the changeable back straps.

Green Dragoon
01-20-2013, 15:05
AND when you run out of ammo you can still kill a puma with it due to the heft.

that's pretty good. :cool:

grumpy1
01-20-2013, 15:06
I shoot the P220 best out of any .45 pistol I have ever tried including my SIG 1911 but they are close. I have tried the HK45 and it certainly is a fine pistol but I still prefer my P220 (1996 Vintage) and it has a wonderful trigger on it. I love the single stack grip on the P220.

Your best bet is to try whatever you are considering, ideally during the same range session, and then to choose what works best for you.

Bruce M
01-20-2013, 15:10
For smaller hands I am thinking the P220 might have the edge.

Andy W
01-20-2013, 15:16
Well guys, the problem is there is nowhere I know of where I can rent either of them. Sig and HK aren't brands that local gun shops keep in stock. They will order them but they don't keep any in inventory. Most people don't want to spend $800 to $1000 on a pistol. Now, if I were going to order one sight unseen, it would probably be the P220. I'm really interested in the 45c though.


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.45Super-Man
01-20-2013, 16:01
Find a lnib w.german 220.

SiberianErik
01-20-2013, 16:29
I love my HK45, it is my second fav pistol behind my FN 5.7

I have a HK P30L on order as well.

bac1023
01-20-2013, 16:42
So I'm looking at getting a .45 and looking to branch out from Glocks and M&Ps. The Sig Sauer p220 and HK45/45c look interesting. Which would you buy? Which is more ergonomic for smaller size hands?


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If you're talking new production, I'd take a HK.

Andy W
01-20-2013, 16:55
If you're talking new production, I'd take a HK.

What is it that you don't like about new production Sigs? I think some of their special models are kinda stupid (for instance, their 220 scorpion looks cool but then you realize that if you actually use it, that FDE finish will look like crap before long). But I haven't heard of any widespread problems with them.


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DrtyHarry
01-20-2013, 17:16
Have an older SIG P220 and it a fantastic shooter. Shot both the 220 and the USP side by side and did better with the SIG. After I installed the SRT...I liked it even more. They are both magnificent right out of the box. IMHO.



DH

Beanie-Bean
01-20-2013, 17:26
Andy,

You can't go wrong with either one. I've got the pistols you've mentioned, and I really like the HK45 and 45c models (they can share the HK45 10-round magazines) and I also really like the P220 models. I've got an older WG P220, which is really one of my favorites, along with a newer P220 Extreme.

Which one would work best with smaller hands? The HK45c will, as will a P220 with either the Hogue G10 grips, like the Scorpion or Extreme versions, or one with an E2 grip installed. I haven't followed up with SIG Sauer regarding the availability of the E2 upgrade kit for the P220, but I'll be getting one as soon as they are available to install on the older model I have.

I hope that helped.

Scrappy
01-20-2013, 17:32
Well guys, the problem is there is nowhere I know of where I can rent either of them. Sig and HK aren't brands that local gun shops keep in stock. They will order them but they don't keep any in inventory. Most people don't want to spend $800 to $1000 on a pistol. Now, if I were going to order one sight unseen, it would probably be the P220. I'm really interested in the 45c though.


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My LGS has all the Sigs and Hks and they rent them too. I owned the Sig P220 and its a fantastic handgun. But over the years they have gone way up in cost, wow. If I were buying today and spending that much ,money I would get a nice 1911.

Andy W
01-20-2013, 17:43
My LGS has all the Sigs and Hks and they rent them too. I owned the Sig P220 and its a fantastic handgun. But over the years they have gone way up in cost, wow. If I were buying today and spending that much ,money I would get a nice 1911.

That was actually going to be my next thread. I'm also considering a 1911 but I don't know which one to get. Looks like the SW1911 series are among the most reliable out of the box if you want to spend under 1K, which I do.


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Scrappy
01-20-2013, 17:47
That was actually going to be my next thread. I'm also considering a 1911 but I don't know which one to get. Looks like the SW1911 series are among the most reliable out of the box if you want to spend under 1K, which I do.


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Ruger makes a nice one too if you can find one,lol.
I have had good luck with my Kimbers and that Raptor model keeps calling me,ugh
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html
http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/raptor-ii/grand-raptor-ii

Andy W
01-20-2013, 17:59
Ruger makes a nice one too if you can find one,lol.
I have had good luck with my Kimbers and that Raptor model keeps calling me,ugh
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html
http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/raptor-ii/grand-raptor-ii

I've heard lots of not so flattering things about Kimber. The Ruger is nice but, like you say, you can't get them.

Scrappy
01-20-2013, 18:16
I've heard lots of not so flattering things about Kimber. The Ruger is nice but, like you say, you can't get them.

Well, the Kimbers I had from years ago I had no issues even with my Ultra carry. That thing was a Tack driver!

sweetsdream
01-20-2013, 18:22
My HK 45c is my favorite pistol. I also think is the softest shooter of any other 45. I just put a few hundred rounds through it today and a ton of fun.


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got2hav1
01-20-2013, 19:25
I had a nice German P220 two tone model. It shot great and had the best empty case ejections I have ever seen. Nice pile all together but that gun would throw them at least twenty feet away. It points and fits my average sized hands perfectly. I sold it because of the cost of ammo and standardized on 9mm. Great gun though.

SiberianErik
01-20-2013, 19:39
That was actually going to be my next thread. I'm also considering a 1911 but I don't know which one to get. Looks like the SW1911 series are among the most reliable out of the box if you want to spend under 1K, which I do.


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WE have a nice Sig Scorpion at $999.99 for sale. I have 8 in my case right now.

Andy W
01-20-2013, 21:50
WE have a nice Sig Scorpion at $999.99 for sale. I have 8 in my case right now.

Those look really cool but I just don't think that finish will hold up I'd you do any sort of practice drawing from a holster. A blued gun gets character with holster wear. A worn FDE finish looks tacky.


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itstime
01-20-2013, 22:03
Hard choice but if I were going to the store to buy new it would be the HK.

Shinesintx
01-20-2013, 22:22
Your conundrum is simple...buy both. I have several of each...and I sleep better at night because of it.

Andy W
01-20-2013, 22:48
Your conundrum is simple...buy both. I have several of each...and I sleep better at night because of it.

I'm still a college student on limited income. The only reason I can really afford this is because I'm in the process of selling an AR-15 more than twice what I paid for it. So I have to just pick one for now.

MikeNH
01-20-2013, 22:52
I have a new Sig P220 that has been just as good as the supposedly superior older ones I have. Also have a HK45c with the light LEM trigger that I'm really liking.

RJ's Guns
01-20-2013, 23:36
As a carry weapon I prefer the HK45c. I also think that the H&K is more desirable on the resale market than the Sig P220. I do like the P220 trigger better than the H&K trigger, especially the P220 with the ShortReset Trigger. I also like the Sig SIGLITE Night Sights, better than the sights on the H&K HK45c However, bottom line; I would choose the H&K.
RJ

jeremy1
01-20-2013, 23:58
Both are great but I would choose the Hk. I find the 220 to have poor recoil characteristics compared to polymer guns. I had a usp and it was much nicer to shoot than my old 220. I think the Hk 45 has made some improvements over the usp series and would be my choice. Both are great choices and I doubt that you would be disappointed

Andy W
01-21-2013, 00:20
Well guys, thanks for the reccomendations do far. However, the gun I may end up getting may not be any of the ones I originally mentioned. The SW1911 E Series standard full size model currently has me drooling. Beautiful gun, very reasonably priced, and no ****ing firing pin safety. Looks like it has all the features you need for a nice shooting, reliable 1911. Good reviews too, from what I've seen.

Andy W
01-21-2013, 01:25
Andy,

You can't go wrong with either one. I've got the pistols you've mentioned, and I really like the HK45 and 45c models (they can share the HK45 10-round magazines) and I also really like the P220 models. I've got an older WG P220, which is really one of my favorites, along with a newer P220 Extreme.

Which one would work best with smaller hands? The HK45c will, as will a P220 with either the Hogue G10 grips, like the Scorpion or Extreme versions, or one with an E2 grip installed. I haven't followed up with SIG Sauer regarding the availability of the E2 upgrade kit for the P220, but I'll be getting one as soon as they are available to install on the older model I have.

I hope that helped.
I checked Sig's custom shop services sheet on their site and the E2 modification is now listed for the P220 in addition to the 226 and 229. I think it's $99.95 for any of these models. Sig's custom shop seems pretty high priced for everything they offer.

nathanours
01-21-2013, 02:36
If you say that you are trying to branch out from the M&Ps and Glocks, why add another polymer framed pistol to the collection? I'd get the sig since it's different.

skeeter7
01-21-2013, 04:38
Of the two, I would go with the Sig P220.

sns3guppy
01-21-2013, 04:41
I have both and frankly, I'd get both. Sigs are excellent handguns all around. The P220 is flat and conceals well. I've been carrying a HK45C quite a bit lately, and with the right concealment gear it rides quite comfortably and disappears, too. They're very reliable.

DocwithGlock
01-21-2013, 09:09
Both are great pistols. Like others have said; the HK is lighter (the compact is easier to carry), sig has better factory night sites and the SRT trigger is great. I slightly prefer the ergos of the HK, but not by enough to override the sig trigger and sites. I don't like the slide releases on either of them, but I have been able to adjust my grip to prevent the slides from not locking back.
Sig p220 has a single action only model (I have a SAO 226x-5tac which is amazing) if you prefer SAO.
Sig has also anounced the release of the 227 which is a 10-14 round double stack 45 with dimensions that are very close to the 226 frame. Very curious to try it when it is released this spring!

Andy W
01-21-2013, 12:00
If you say that you are trying to branch out from the M&Ps and Glocks, why add another polymer framed pistol to the collection? I'd get the sig since it's different.

Well, metal framed pistols, with the exception of 1911s and possibly the 220, usually feel less ergonomic IMO than polymer framed ones. Also, H&K may have a polymer frame but it's still a step or two above Glock or S&W M&P in quality. Better fit and finish, they actually guarantee +p ammo won't hurt them, etc. So, it's still a polymer frame but I don't think they are on the same level as Glock.

nathanours
01-21-2013, 12:15
Well, metal framed pistols, with the exception of 1911s and possibly the 220, usually feel less ergonomic IMO than polymer framed ones. Also, H&K may have a polymer frame but it's still a step or two above Glock or S&W M&P in quality. Better fit and finish, they actually guarantee +p ammo won't hurt them, etc. So, it's still a polymer frame but I don't think they are on the same level as Glock.

As far as being on different levels, I somewhat disagree. Yes fit and finish may be a little better on the HK, but from my personal experience that is where it ends. My Glock (which has more rounds through it) has had fewer problems that my friends USP. 0 malfunctions in the Glock, and probably 50 FTF with the USP. When they were both put in a ransom rest at the range, my Glock was more accurate than his USP as well. As far as +p ammo goes, I've got hundreds of rounds through it with no noticeable sign of wear.

All this to say, in my personal experience the inferior HK does in no way justify it's price tag almost doubling other polymer framed pistols. And really that's all it is. Just another polymer pistol. I say this with the exception being the HK MK23.

At least the Sig is different.

Stvan1
01-21-2013, 12:24
If you have the W German made sig you get to hold your nose higher in the air. You know how some people just have to feel like elitist....


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Sig 226 tacops
SA 1911 Loaded
SA XDm 3.8 9mm
SA XDs 45
Too many more

Andy W
01-21-2013, 12:58
If you have the W German made sig you get to hold your nose higher in the air. You know how some people just have to feel like elitist....


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Sig 226 tacops
SA 1911 Loaded
SA XDm 3.8 9mm
SA XDs 45
Too many more

My uncle had an old W.German P220. It was a police trade in and had practically no finish on it and I think it also had a weak trigger return spring, sometimes you would have to help the trigger forward in DA. It fell nice though.


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NEOH212
01-21-2013, 13:00
I have the HK 45 and several Sig 220's. I love them both as I love some things about each one over the other. The 220 is a good bit thinner than the HK 45. It's a true single stack pistol.

The HK 45 isn't' a true double stack and isn't a true single stack. It's a hybrid and it makes the grip rather pleasant and it fits my hand very well.

Other than the latest models of HK's the older ones such as the USP series can be a bit thick for some people. The HK 45, 45c, and P30 all have very wonderful grips.

I carry the HK 45 for my EDC. It's a bit big but it does carry nice. My only gripe with it is I wish HK made magazine floor plates that fit flush with the bottom of the grip. The floor plates they come with tend to snag on my shirt when I draw from a IWB holster. I modified them to minimize this but it would be nice to have a flush fit floor plate. This gun wasn't designed with concealment in mind so I can't fault HK for this.

The Sig 220 maybe fits my hand a little better than the HK and does have the better trigger all the way around. I have small hands and with the reduced reach trigger installed, I can reach the trigger on the Sig slightly better than on the HK 45.

The little longer reach to the trigger and the little thicker grip on the HK 45 doesn't seem to present any problem for me as far as how I can shoot the gun. It's the most accurate polymer .45 pistol I've ever owned and I shoot it better than any other polymer pistol I've ever fired! The HK's trigger is a bit heavier and not as refined as the one on the Sig but it's still very usable and is the best trigger I've ever had on a factory HK.

The reliability of the HK 45 and the Sig 220 have both been 100% flawless for me. Both are equally accurate and devour everything I feed them. The Sig tends to need more lube and attention to cleaning than the HK, and the Sig is a little heavier too.

DAO, SAO, and DA/SA are all available on both the HK and Sig so the OP should be able to find a trigger system that suits their tastes. Sig's DAK, which is their DAO trigger is especially nice and is my favorite DAO trigger on the market! My HK 45 is DA/SA.

HK's LEM, which is their DAO trigger is the best DAO trigger I've ever had on a polymer pistol and in my opinion, is the best DAO trigger available in a polymer pistol! (If I could only get the Sig DAK trigger in a HK.....:whistling:)

I can shoot and shoot with the HK and it keeps going strong and never slows down. The Sig seems to get a little sluggish after several hundred rounds and needs a little lube to get things going smooth again. However to be fair, we are comparing a all metal gun to a polymer gun so this isn't a big deal and I've never had a Sig quit in the middle of a range session because I didn't stop to lube it. This is just something I've experienced as a high volume shooter and is why the HK comes out on top, even if slightly so.

Holster coverage for the HK 45 is getting better but there is still more coverage for the Sig 220 over the HK. (For now.)

IWB holsters are scarce for the HK 45 but they are out there. Blade Tech makes a good one and is what I use. Raven Concealment makes a great belt holster for the HK 45 and Sig 220, and it can be converted for IWB use too.

I highly recommend Raven Concealment if you need another holster and don't mind waiting a while to get one!

Either way, I love both guns and I wouldn't hesitate to buy either one again. The OP should find a range that rents both or find someone that has both. This way, he/she can shoot both before purchasing them to see which one he/she likes better.

Yes, they are a little expensive but you get what you pay for and they are worth every penny. You won't be disappointed with either one!

NEOH212
01-21-2013, 13:15
I have a new Sig P220 that has been just as good as the supposedly superior older ones I have.

I'm yet to see what the supposed, "Difference" is between the older Sig's and newer ones.

Maybe the finish was a little nicer on the older ones but functionality is the same. I prefer the newer ones personally.

Sig still makes a great gun and will continue to do so for a long time to come!

:cool:

Andy W
01-21-2013, 14:04
I'm yet to see what the supposed, "Difference" is between the older Sig's and newer ones.

Maybe the finish was a little nicer on the older ones but functionality is the same. I prefer the newer ones personally.

Sig still makes a great gun and will continue to do so for a long time to come!

:cool:

And they cost less than H&K.


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Diesel McBadass
01-21-2013, 15:06
Id say hk, just cause sigs slide stop is in such an awful position. Both are rock solid though. Ive shot enough new p229s to know that sig is still awesome, bashing new sigs must just be an elitest thing. Thousands of people run them just fine including a lot of cops and soldiers.

Andy W
01-21-2013, 15:17
Id say hk, just cause sigs slide stop is in such an awful position. Both are rock solid though. Ive shot enough new p229s to know that sig is still awesome, bashing new sigs must just be an elitest thing. Thousands of people run them just fine including a lot of cops and soldiers.

Yeah, the Slide stop on a Sig is pretty much where a thumb safety would be located on other pistols. You can get used to that though. I know people don't like new Sigs but I haven't been able to pinpoint the problem with them. There was a P226 I saw in a gun shop that the buyer brought back to be worked on because it had "extraction" problems; that's what it said on the work order tag at least. That's the only actual problem Sig I've heard of.

rozz421
01-21-2013, 15:24
I just picked up a p220 and so far love the ergos and trigger. will be heading to the rage this weekend. Anyone know if they make a flush fitting mag?

Diesel McBadass
01-21-2013, 15:30
I used to dig sigs, till i got taught thumbs forward. Then i was tap ack locking my way through range quals.

Andy W
01-21-2013, 15:43
I used to dig sigs, till i got taught thumbs forward. Then i was tap ack locking my way through range quals.

I think you are supposed to rest your strong hand thumb on the back of your support hand thumb, rather than along the frame.


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Andy W
01-21-2013, 15:45
I just picked up a p220 and so far love the ergos and trigger. will be heading to the rage this weekend. Anyone know if they make a flush fitting mag?

Is it new? It would be great of you could post a couple pics. They used to use a flush fit 7 round mag, now they use an 8 rounder with the little bumper on it.


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