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cowboyarcher
01-24-2013, 15:10
Hi all,

I'm considering a Glock 35 as a candidate to register as a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) and am trying to determine what kind of accuracy to expect from it at longer ranges. If I move forward I would probably install and extended barrel and would be running some sort of optics for sights. . .

Given that, does anyone have any idea what kind of groups I should expect from one at 50-150 yards? Data from a rest or offhand groups at these extended ranges would be most helpful.

Thanks all and God bless,

Adam

cowboyarcher
01-24-2013, 15:54
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/tactics_training_shot_022305/

Found some answers here, though not exactly what I was looking at. . .

Tiro Fijo
01-24-2013, 17:20
It's a Glock, not a scoped Thompson Contender.

Quite frankly, your questions tell me that you are not familiar with handguns. This is a combat/self defense handgun and not a Camp Perry match pistol. That said, it will outshoot you.

I have shot a verified five shot group at 50 yds. offhand (two handed) that measured 5 1/2" with a stock Glock 17 other than Ameriglo sights. That's a five shot group and not a "best of" five shots. That said, the Glock is not meant as such.

SCmasterblaster
01-24-2013, 17:24
What is SBR?

cowboyarcher
01-24-2013, 17:28
What is SBR?

Short Barreled Rifle. It's a special registration with the ATF and a long wait period.

The idea is a shoulder fired weapon that is very concealable (although off body in a bag most likely) that has a much greater useful range than the standard side-arm.

smokey45
01-24-2013, 17:30
What is SBR?

Short Barreled Rifle.
s45

SCmasterblaster
01-24-2013, 17:34
I guess that I don't have an SBR. Thanks.

cowboyarcher
01-24-2013, 17:35
I guess that I don't have an SBR. Thanks.

Well I was hoping to get some performance readings on them at these ranges as a handgun as shouldering them should only increase their usability and the ease at which a round can be placed on target. . .

SCmasterblaster
01-24-2013, 17:43
Well I was hoping to get some performance readings on them at these ranges as a handgun as shouldering them should only increase their usability and the ease at which a round can be placed on target. . .

Can a G17 3rd gen be fitted with a shoulder stock/

SCmasterblaster
01-24-2013, 17:43
Well I was hoping to get some performance readings on them at these ranges as a handgun as shouldering them should only increase their usability and the ease at which a round can be placed on target. . .

Can a G17 3rd gen be fitted with a shoulder stock?

cowboyarcher
01-24-2013, 17:45
There are a few companies making products to do just that:

http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-pistol-to-carbine-conversion-kit/id-266/2nd-gen-pdw-conversion-kit-for-glock-9mm-models-.html

That's just one for example I am thinking I would build my own set up as that kit is very expensive! ($400ish)

SCmasterblaster
01-24-2013, 17:51
There are a few companies making products to do just that:

http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-pistol-to-carbine-conversion-kit/id-266/2nd-gen-pdw-conversion-kit-for-glock-9mm-models-.html

That's just one for example I am thinking I would build my own set up as that kit is very expensive! ($400ish)

Thanks! :supergrin:

Paxmo
01-24-2013, 17:53
Think broomhandle mauser with stock.

SCmasterblaster
01-24-2013, 18:17
Think broomhandle mauser with stock.

It would be useful in long range shooting (50+ meters)

Paxmo
01-24-2013, 19:07
If I remember the sights started at 75 ft. It's bin awile scinse I had one. Of course you have to get one in 9 mauser.

RWBlue
01-24-2013, 20:24
Me+G21+stock+scope
100 yards
8inch paper plate all day long.

If you want a tack driver a glock is not it.


BTW, SBRs are addictive.

RWBlue
01-24-2013, 20:29
Can a G17 3rd gen be fitted with a shoulder stock?

Yes, there are multiple options.

You could go for something like the Sig ACP PDW.
You could go for something like the Impulse barrel company's stock.
You could go for the Endo tech stock.

SIGlock
01-24-2013, 21:14
[QUOTE=cowboyarcher;19906134]Given that, does anyone have any idea what kind of groups I should expect from one at 50-150 yards? Data from a rest or offhand groups at these extended ranges would be most helpful. /QUOTE]

Gee, Have you heard of a Glock shooter name Hickok45? He can shoot offhand with Glock and hits targets at long distances. Do a search on Youtube and check him out.

I can do head shots at 100 yds. most of the time with a G34. This is equivalent to an 8 inch round targets at 100 rds......OFFHAND. Yes, shooting OFFHAND, slow fire, using no rest. If my G34 had a stock....I could do much better in terms of accuracy. Soooo good that if you'd try to attach a stock to a Glock......it's illegal....unless you have proper paperwork for a SBR.

It's interesting that the Glock SBR.....is actually has nothing to do with a "barrel" in this case. It's about attaching a stock on a Glock pistol. That makes it a SBR.

SIGlock
01-24-2013, 21:19
If you want a tack driver a glock is not it..

So, what is a tack driver "pistol" if it's not a Glock?

Show me another tack driver pistol, that is about $500, and it's not a Glock....and I'd show you that the truth is not with you.

RWBlue
01-24-2013, 21:51
So, what is a tack driver "pistol" if it's not a Glock?

Show me another tack driver pistol, that is about $500, and it's not a Glock....and I'd show you that the truth is not with you.

SP89

I never said you could buy a tack driving pistol for $500.

WinterWizard
01-24-2013, 22:16
OP, why not just get a real SBR with a real rifle caliber? Adding some lame stock to a 9mm pistol with a short barrel and a mediocre trigger isn't going to make the gun or its ballistics any better.

RWBlue
01-24-2013, 22:36
OP, why not just get a real SBR with a real rifle caliber? Adding some lame stock to a 9mm pistol with a short barrel and a mediocre trigger isn't going to make the gun or its ballistics any better.

It really depends on what the OP wants to do with the gun.

If he has a Glock and wants to improve the accuracy at longer distances then adding a stock does this. He can even make a PDW with Red dot or scope. Been there done that.

If he wants to run a 300 Blackout in an AR platform, it will be a much larger gun. It will also be a much more accurate gun.
Been there and done that with 300-221.

SargeMO
01-25-2013, 05:04
I've bench rested a number of .40 and .45 Glocks. Given good ammunition, I find they will keep five shots under 4" at 50 yards. This is a useful accuracy standard for service pistols because when properly zeroed and in expert hands, the pistol is capable of centering the head at that distance.

cowboyarcher
01-25-2013, 10:43
OP, why not just get a real SBR with a real rifle caliber? Adding some lame stock to a 9mm pistol with a short barrel and a mediocre trigger isn't going to make the gun or its ballistics any better.

I would much rather do a rifle caliber SBR but it is near impossible to find such a platform to do what I want it to. I want a folding system that comes to under 16" when folded. A 7.5" AR comes down to about 18" which I could live with, but folding the stock becomes the issue (LAW Tactical builds an adapter, but it cannot be fired folded). Or one could add a stock to a Mini Draco but those are over $1k right now and I'm not convinced they'd be all that accurate.

I must agree though, a 300 Blk would be a much better round, and I'd rather be in an AR platform, but it is not that easy to pull off and would approach $2k.

If I take a Glock 35 and build my own stock and optics unit for it, maybe even ad a LWD 9" barrel, I'd have a 12" weapon when stowed, that is capable of being fired in that position and it will run the same mags and ammo as all my other Glocks. All that for around $1k plus the tax stamp.

If I had known what I know now though I would have bought a Kel Tec Sub 2K when they were available and moved on to some other project!

JBP55
01-25-2013, 15:00
All of you that are shooting 4" groups at 50 yards standing without a rest with a combat pistol are very good shooters. I used to shoot a full magazine from a Glock at 25 yards in a 4" group but health issues and eyesight opened the group up in recent years.
Again great shooting.

RWBlue
01-25-2013, 15:25
I would much rather do a rifle caliber SBR but it is near impossible to find such a platform to do what I want it to. I want a folding system that comes to under 16" when folded. A 7.5" AR comes down to about 18" which I could live with, but folding the stock becomes the issue (LAW Tactical builds an adapter, but it cannot be fired folded). Or one could add a stock to a Mini Draco but those are over $1k right now and I'm not convinced they'd be all that accurate.

I must agree though, a 300 Blk would be a much better round, and I'd rather be in an AR platform, but it is not that easy to pull off and would approach $2k.

If I take a Glock 35 and build my own stock and optics unit for it, maybe even ad a LWD 9" barrel, I'd have a 12" weapon when stowed, that is capable of being fired in that position and it will run the same mags and ammo as all my other Glocks. All that for around $1k plus the tax stamp.

If I had known what I know now though I would have bought a Kel Tec Sub 2K when they were available and moved on to some other project!

This MAY get your to the length you are requesting.
http://www.kellyenterprises.net/53k-vke-sbr-detail.html


As a side note, Chuck at Kelly Enterprises has made promises on delivery dates and then doesn't keep them. Then gets rude, when you call him on it. We will see if he actually delivers.

RWBlue
01-25-2013, 15:28
This will get you what you are asking for, but not at your price tag.
http://www.hk-usa.com/military_products/mp5k_specs.asp

M 7
01-25-2013, 15:36
All of you that are shooting 4" groups at 50 yards standing without a rest with a combat pistol are very good shooters. I used to shoot a full magazine from a Glock at 25 yards in a 4" group but health issues and eyesight opened the group up in recent years.
Again great shooting.

I'd be willing to bet that the 35 is capable of better accuracy than most folks shooting it. As it is, I can get 6" groups @ 25 yds from the rest with my 34 with just a little effort and one competition shooter at my gun club can do about 3.5" -3.75" @ 25 yds from the rest but he is much younger than me and has perfect vision.

I wonder if there are tests that have been run using Ransom rests for the 35 at 25 yrds.

Green Mountain Boy
01-25-2013, 16:34
My G27 delivered nicely when shot out to 100 yards on silouetts. I was not shooting for accuracy (meaning I wasn't tracking specific groups and was switching from tartet to target.) In any event I fired 19 rounds last time doing that and found all 19 in or close to the A zone.

I can't claime x group at y distance because I didn't shoot for groups with a glock or a pistol for that matter (normally I only measure groups from hunting rifles) but I can see a glock as a good sbr.

I gave serious condideration a few weeks ago to the SIG ACP. At the end of the day I didn't want to fuss with a tax stamp and all the hassel.

Regards, GMB

NDCent
01-25-2013, 17:05
All of you that are shooting 4" groups at 50 yards standing without a rest with a combat pistol are very good shooters. I used to shoot a full magazine from a Glock at 25 yards in a 4" group but health issues and eyesight opened the group up in recent years.
Again great shooting.

Try adding a red dot reflex sight. As I've heard said, it's almost like cheating. I can easily hold a 4" group off hand @25yrds. Aging eyesight brought me to try one, I'll never be without at least one, again. I'd compare it to not having a 4 wheel drive after once owning one.

JBP55
01-25-2013, 18:54
Try adding a red dot reflex sight. As I've heard said, it's almost like cheating. I can easily hold a 4" group off hand @25yrds. Aging eyesight brought me to try one, I'll never be without at least one, again. I'd compare it to not having a 4 wheel drive after once owning one.

I have been considering one this year but was hoping they would get smaller and more reliable. After 7 years of cataracts I am supposed to have them removed this spring.
About 2 years ago a very good Instructor/Shooter from a rest at 25 yards shot a 1.81" 5 shot group with my Gen 3 G34 and a 1.18" 5 shot group with my Gen 4 G17 both using 124+P HST ammunition. Five types of ammunition were shot for groups and the HST was best in both pistols. I never shoot from a rest.
Since sight radius should not come into play will the reflex sight do as well with a G19 as a G34?

RWBlue
01-25-2013, 19:11
I love it when I find good documentation to back up my real life experience.

http://www.gunblast.com/Glock-21DE.htm
Ransom rest test results.

NDCent
01-25-2013, 19:21
Since sight radius should not come into play will the reflex sight do as well with a G19 as a G34? I would say yes.

I am personally only using them on a couple of 5"+ barrel model pistols, however many people are putting them on sub-compacts with similar results. I will be adding one to my G27 as funds allow.

I'd like to try one on a KT sub 2k, as mentioned by the OP, if/when prices come back to reality.

cowboyarcher
01-26-2013, 09:59
I would say yes.

I am personally only using them on a couple of 5"+ barrel model pistols, however many people are putting them on sub-compacts with similar results. I will be adding one to my G27 as funds allow.

I'd like to try one on a KT sub 2k, as mentioned by the OP, if/when prices come back to reality.

I still have yet to figure out why KT has not increased production on some of their more hot items. I don't know of a parallel in terms of demand and unavailability in the firearms world.

I agree, optics will be a must for the ranges I am considering, or at least a set of rifle sights rather than pistol sights.

I must admit, at least part of this project is driven by a lack of proficiency with a side arm, and a certain situation that I find my self in at least once a week where such a situation where such a long shot might have to be taken. I am much more proficient with a shouldered firearm, but it must remain concealed in this case.

RWBlue
01-26-2013, 12:38
a certain situation that I find my self in at least once a week where such a situation where such a long shot might have to be taken. I am much more proficient with a shouldered firearm, but it must remain concealed in this case.

I think I would avoid situations where I might have to start shooting to protect myself. Long shot, short shot, any shots... I have been shot before and didn't like it.

cowboyarcher
01-26-2013, 12:49
I think I would avoid situations where I might have to start shooting to protect myself. Long shot, short shot, any shots... I have been shot before and didn't like it.

I agree completely but the situation is unavoidable but very unlikely. I'm being purposely vague, I know, but those are the conditions I'm considering this for. . .

RWBlue
01-26-2013, 14:23
I agree completely but the situation is unavoidable but very unlikely. I'm being purposely vague, I know, but those are the conditions I'm considering this for. . .

In that case...
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/silveradohdk/Funny%20Joke%20Photos/GunFight-BringYourFriends.jpg