"Undocumented immigrants who haven't committed a crime" [Archive] - Glock Talk

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czsmithGT
01-28-2013, 20:00
Is this some kind of liberal oxymoron like "jumbo shrimp"? Isn't coming into this country and staying illegally a crime? What am I missing here?

Toyman
01-28-2013, 20:02
They mean a crime that would show up on a background check, as in being arrested.

azatrox
01-28-2013, 20:25
Yeah, something serious like pirating cable, not something as trivial as breaching an international border. :faint:

tslex
01-29-2013, 11:05
I guess maybe minor children brought over by their parents? Undocumented aliens, but cannot be said to have committed a crime as they lacked the mens rea.

Cavalry Doc
01-29-2013, 12:38
But what happens once they grow up and realize they are here illegally?

JohnnyReb
01-29-2013, 12:47
Is this some kind of liberal oxymoron like "jumbo shrimp"? Isn't coming into this country and staying illegally a crime? What am I missing here?

Usually people are talking about not depriving people of life, liberty and property.

Does anyone think deporting them is realistic anymore?

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JBnTX
01-29-2013, 13:13
Does anyone think deporting them is realistic anymore?



Take away the reason they came here and they'll deport themselves.

Cavalry Doc
01-29-2013, 13:20
Take away the reason they came here and they'll deport themselves.

Too true. The day you make knowingly hiring an illegal a felony worth 5 years in jail and a 50,000 fine, per count, it all stops. Start phasing out the public assistance for them, with plenty of warning.


If you get tired of cleaning bird poop off of your porch, take down the 5 bird feeders you have on your porch.

JohnnyReb
01-29-2013, 13:34
Too true. The day you make knowingly hiring an illegal a felony worth 5 years in jail and a 50,000 fine, per count, it all stops. Start phasing out the public assistance for them, with plenty of warning.


If you get tired of cleaning bird poop off of your porch, take down the 5 bird feeders you have on your porch.

So they don't have the work to make an honest living, with little means of going back?





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CitizenOfDreams
01-29-2013, 13:39
Who would you rather have in your country - an illegal immigrant who has committed no crimes other than being unable to jump through immigration hoops, or a mafia boss with a squeaky clean green card?

Bren
01-29-2013, 13:44
I saw a video on CNN yesterday, whining about how terrible it is that illegal aliens can't join the military....huh? I'd be interested in how that plays out on your application for a security clearance.

czsmithGT
01-29-2013, 14:00
Who would you rather have in your country - an illegal immigrant who has committed no crimes other than being unable to jump through immigration hoops, or a mafia boss with a squeaky clean green card?

Neither

tslex
01-29-2013, 14:02
If you get tired of cleaning bird poop off of your porch, take down the 5 bird feeders you have on your porch.

In our house, this is what we call "CBT."


Cruel - but TRUE.


I'd be for phasing support out rather than flipping a switch. (i.e., I might not take down all the bird feeders mid-winter.) And I would not want to see any child on American soil in danger of his life and health if we have the wherewithal to fix that, whatever his parents did to bring him here.

But if the economic benefit of coming here disappears, you can take down the fence, slash the ranks of Border Patrol and still see the problem shrivel.

DWARREN123
01-29-2013, 14:03
Illegal means illegal only for firearms! :steamed:

CitizenOfDreams
01-29-2013, 14:56
Neither

Then why all the immigration protests I ever hear are about the first group? :dunno:

Cavalry Doc
01-29-2013, 16:48
So they don't have the work to make an honest living, with little means of going back?





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I'm not saying spring it on them in a day. Give them a 6
Month heads up.

I'll post the whole plan when I get back to my desktop, it's not heartless at all.

jakebrake
01-29-2013, 17:00
here's an idea. they want to stay? fine. they go to the back of the line. they agree to plead guilty to a federal felony, pay the back taxes they owe,

and, oh yeah....remittance has just been ended in america. no more of the work here, send the money home for a decade, and go back to live like a king.

Cavalry Doc
01-29-2013, 18:31
Back at the desktop, and this has been my plan for a while.


First, create an "I used to be an illegal alien" ID card that is verifiable over the internet. Make it a felony to assist an unidentified illegal in obtaining fraudulent documentation, punishable by $5000 and 5 years in jail per count.

Then allow 1 year for all illegals to get theirs. While educating everyone on what is to come.

After 1 year, it is a misdemeanor, punishable by 1 year in jail and $1000, to be, or to hire an illegal without the ID card.

After 18 months, it's a felony, punishable by 5 years in jail, or $50,000 fine for being an illegal, or hiring one without the ID card. Offer a $1000 dollar reward for information leading to the arrest of any duly identified illegals. $1500 per Illegal captured if the finder happens to be otherwise unemployed (putting Americans back to work) We have to watch spending, so cap it at say..... $100,000 per year per household.

After 2 years, all social services (food stamps, housing, public education etc) stop for all illegals & their non US citizen family members without the ID card. Schools found to have illegal aliens enrolled are fined $500 for each week that an illegal alien attended, per student. All Illegals found, regardless of how, without the ID card are deported.

We then get to decide how many we want to allow to stay, and how many should go. We also get to decide, on whatever criteria we'd like, who stays and who goes. I'm for automatically deporting everyone with more than two arrests for non-immigration misdemeanor offenses. Any convictions of any felony should get them an automatic ticket home.

We don't want to break up any families, so anchor babies must be considered. If it is decided that one or both parents must be deported, then the parents go, period, end of discussion on that point. The child will be allowed to go with his/her parents, or they can stay in the USA at the parents expense if suitable supervision can be arranged.

Since we will finally have access to demographics on this hidden culture, we can decide how much we should give them in the form of social services. How many non-working family members per worker will be allowed. What the illegal immigrant minimum wage should be. How much they will pay in taxes & If there should be limits on their stay.



There will be crooks among them, there will also be high quality people. We should consider a path to permanent resident alien (non-voting) status for the top performers based on whatever criteria we choose.


If you remove the financial benefits on both the supply and demand sides of the equation, and positively ID all of them, you can start to manage the population.


That has evolved over time, but been pretty much the same over the last couple of years.

Cavalry Doc
01-29-2013, 18:36
I saw a video on CNN yesterday, whining about how terrible it is that illegal aliens can't join the military....huh? I'd be interested in how that plays out on your application for a security clearance.

Bren, this is not aimed at you, but the video you described.

You can join the military on a green card. But illegal? Sure, let that happen, we'll have scores of taliban moles in the US military in no time at all.

Are some people just stupid??????


[ETA: That last question is just rhetorical. Had to point that out in case a stupid person missed that.]

czsmithGT
01-29-2013, 20:56
Then why all the immigration protests I ever hear are about the first group? :dunno:

Don't know. I can't speak for immigration protestors. What percent of the 12 million (if that is a good number, don't know for sure but that is what seems to be commonly reported) are mafia bosses with clean green cards?