G21 breech face indentation. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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vaquero aleman
01-28-2013, 20:39
Has anyone experienced their slide indenting like this?

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0011-1.jpg

It appears that the primers are pounding the steel and it is caving in.

I have fired apx. 200 rounds of .460 Rowland from this G21.

yellowhand
01-28-2013, 21:47
Had me worried when I saw yours and went and checked mine.
I too fire 460 thru my 21 and no, no marks on my face at all and I've shot far more than you stated, must be one hell of a load to mark your weapon up like that, wow!

vaquero aleman
01-28-2013, 21:57
I have shot Ga Arms 230gr @ 1300fps and Underwood 185gr @ 1500+fps. I haven't had the nerve to shoot any Underwood 230gr. But then, I have to admit, I don't run a comp on my G21. I use an LWD barrel that I cut down to 4.75" with a Sprinco unit set up for a Power Factor of 310. It is quite an experience.

yobohadi
01-28-2013, 22:02
Maybe the slide wasn't hardened correctly, sounds like a call into Glock is in your future.

vaquero aleman
01-28-2013, 22:11
Maybe the slide wasn't hardened correctly, sounds like a call into Glock is in your future.

I would like to contact Glock about this except that firing .460 Rowland from a G21 is completely outside of acceptable for Glock. I wouldn't mind discussing this with one of their engineers, but when I call Glock the only people I get to talk to are the ones that have been programmed to tell you that it has to be your fault.

Tiro Fijo
01-28-2013, 22:13
Maybe the slide wasn't hardened correctly, sounds like a call into Glock is in your future.


:rofl:

Rigggghhhhttttt!!

"Hello Glock, I am having problems with my G21 because I am shooting a wild *** wildcat ctg. with pressures in the ionosphere and was wondering if you would honor the warranty?" :upeyes:

yellowhand
01-28-2013, 22:33
I would like to contact Glock about this except that firing .460 Rowland from a G21 is completely outside of acceptable for Glock. I wouldn't mind discussing this with one of their engineers, but when I call Glock the only people I get to talk to are the ones that have been programmed to tell you that it has to be your fault.


Don't mention 460 Rowland, place factory 45 ACP barrel back into weapon, and ask Glock, "What happened to my Glock? How you going to fix it?"
Don't ask, and sure as hell don't tell:faint:

yellowhand
01-28-2013, 22:37
oh, forgot, repeat after me,
I have never fired anything thru my Glock 21 except for factory 45 ACP target loads!
Say it 100 times, before you make the call.:rofl:

Tiro Fijo
01-29-2013, 03:35
Don't mention 460 Rowland, place factory 45 ACP barrel back into weapon, and ask Glock, "What happened to my Glock? How you going to fix it?"
Don't ask, and sure as hell don't tell:faint:

oh, forgot, repeat after me,
I have never fired anything thru my Glock 21 except for factory 45 ACP target loads!
Say it 100 times, before you make the call.:rofl:


Fraud is a crime.

yellowhand
01-29-2013, 08:39
Fraud is a crime.

yes it is!:rofl:

BMiracletx
01-29-2013, 14:03
Fraud is a crime.

Oh its just a little white lie... if that was a crime then all of our politicians would be locked up...

vaquero aleman
01-29-2013, 14:47
Has anyone experienced their slide indenting like this?

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0011-1.jpg

It appears that the primers are pounding the steel and it is caving in.

I have fired apx. 200 rounds of .460 Rowland from this G21.

I am still hoping that someone might be able to shed some light on this problem. I don't know if this is serious or minor.

Catshooter
01-29-2013, 17:53
Does it actually dish inwards as much as it appears in the photo? I'd put a straight edge on it.

If it is dishing as much as it looks like, then yes Houston, I'd say you have a problem. That area of the slide is where all of the case head thrust is taking place during firing. That are of the slide is cut away and isn't all that thick and there are thousands of pounds of force applied there with each firing.

If it were mine, (I'm a gunsmith) and it really is as dished as it looks then I would call Glock and send it in for replacement. I would be honest and tell them what I've been doing. If that much damage has occured there where you can see it, is there damage where you can't? The whole pistol needs to be gone over by the factory, not a Glock Armorer. If you tell them the truth then they can do a better job of exaimination, now can't they.

Worst case is you get some small parts back, buy a new G21 and move on. Better that than the slide ending up embedded in your forehead.


Cat

WinterWizard
01-29-2013, 17:57
So you fired a cartridge in your Glock that it is not chambered for and produces about twice as much energy as .45 acp, and now your Glock is damaged, and you are complaining why?

llcoolj_2222
01-30-2013, 00:33
It is serious.
Breech face must be mirror flat. no cracks, dings, dishisngs or any other inperfection.
The breech face together with the chamber deals with the highest pressure peak when firing your gun so it shouldn't have any weakness points or fault lines.
Also, mind that in glocks the breech face is about 1mm thin, and in case of failure, there is good chance of the FP flying into your face.

gatorboy
01-30-2013, 10:38
Does it actually dish inwards as much as it appears in the photo? I'd put a straight edge on it.

If it is dishing as much as it looks like, then yes Houston, I'd say you have a problem. That area of the slide is where all of the case head thrust is taking place during firing. That are of the slide is cut away and isn't all that thick and there are thousands of pounds of force applied there with each firing.

If it were mine, (I'm a gunsmith) and it really is as dished as it looks then I would call Glock and send it in for replacement. I would be honest and tell them what I've been doing. If that much damage has occured there where you can see it, is there damage where you can't? The whole pistol needs to be gone over by the factory, not a Glock Armorer. If you tell them the truth then they can do a better job of exaimination, now can't they.

Worst case is you get some small parts back, buy a new G21 and move on. Better that than the slide ending up embedded in your forehead.


Cat

That's the best advice yet. Don't see why brass and aluminum primers would do that though. I had a 23 years back that had deep pits in the breechface shooting about 4K rds. of factory non-corosive ammo. They gave me a new pistol. LWD makes solid long slide 21's that are heavy as hell and threaded 6" barrels. Seems that would work better for 460 anyway. I would'nt lie. Despite the fact it really is fraud, they may just read GT once in a while, especially threads like this one. Good luck and IMO, don't shoot anything from that slide until it get's checked out.

roger123
01-30-2013, 10:54
So you fired a cartridge in your Glock that it is not chambered for and produces about twice as much energy as .45 acp, and now your Glock is damaged, and you are complaining why?

I must have missed the complaining part. I just saw someone post honestly what they did and asking if anyone has seen it.

JBS
01-30-2013, 11:25
It would be interesting to see what the primer of a fired case looks like. Is the fired primer a complete pancake? Completely flush with the primer pocket rim?

Catshooter
01-30-2013, 12:09
Be interesting to see the fired case head. Is it bowed? Can't tell with just this limited data if the loads are too hot, the heat treatment of the slide incorrect or just what.

What are your loads by the way?

Inquiring minds you know.


Cat

F106 Fan
01-30-2013, 12:42
If it peens far enough, can it trap the firing pin? That would be an interesting experience. Imagine a mag dump on full auto!

That slide is seriously hosed!

Richard

Arc Angel
01-30-2013, 14:14
Yes, it's serious; and you should stop using your G-21 with such heavy loads. There's got 'a be some sort of increase in headspace on that 45; and primers are going to have a tendency to back out on ya, too.

I have, long, suspected Glock breech faces of not being properly hardened and of inconsistent density. I've tried, for years, to find out exactly how and what they're made; but all I ever get is, 'from steel billets'. What kind of steel billets remains a mystery? Are they X-rayed for stress imperfections and cracks? I doubt it.

Tenifer is just a surface treatment; and the overall tensile strength of a Glock's breech face remains largely unknown. Do Glock breech faces ever fail? Yes, on occasion, we already know that they do. I suppose I'm as guilty as the next guy. I've fired modest 45 Super loads in both of my own G-21's. So far, though, without any apparent ill-effects other than a little minor slide peeing.

A reasonable solution? Get an aftermarket slide; and, from now on, shoot tamer loads. ;)


NOTE: Now that I think about it, nothing has been said about, 'HOW' you set this G-21 up? Your polymer frame could be, 'wobbling like spaghetti' every time the pistol is fired.

proguide
01-30-2013, 14:54
Probably not heat treated to spec. Glock will make you pay however due to the conversion. They weren't designed and engineered for that is going to be your answer.

vaquero aleman
01-30-2013, 17:07
I have never shot hand loads from my 21. I have shot Ga Arms 230gr @ 1300fps and Underwood 185gr @ 1500fps from this 21. The primers have some flow but they look normal, no pancake effect. The only difference between my setup and the kit from 460rowland.com is that I did not use a compensator on my LWD barrel, and LWD now offers 460 Rowland reaming for thier 45 ACP barrels. The barrel has remained solid. I chose to use a Sprinco unit "factory modified" to handle 230gr @ 1350fps. The Sprinco stops the slide from impacting the frame but does very little to reduce the felt recoil. I have kept a close watch on the entire pistol and I have found no stress cracks or loosening of parts and the rails are still just as solid as the day I bought the pistol. Also, there is little or no bulging on the 460 Rowland brass.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0003-Copy-1.jpg

Tiro Fijo
01-30-2013, 17:37
I have never shot hand loads from my 21. I have shot Ga Arms 230gr @ 1300fps and Underwood 185gr @ 1500fps from this 21....

460rowland.com...


You don't get it yet, do you? Let me make this simple:

The .460 Rowland is not a factory chambered round by Glock. Period.

If you took a brand new Dodge pickup, dumped the engine and replaced it with a JATO, would Dodge honor the warranty because the frame bent? :wavey:

Underwood is known for ammo that is hotter than the hubs of hell and you have coupled that with a wildcat NON-FACTORY chambered round utilizing an AFTERMARKET barrel and AFTERMARKET RSA.

Got it? You're screwed. You tossed the dice & you lost. Accept it & move on. You'll need to buy a new slide and hopefully have learned your lesson.

Catshooter
01-30-2013, 17:51
Ok, so your loads may not be the cause, it may be the slide itself.

What's your next step?


Cat

vaquero aleman
01-30-2013, 18:19
You don't get it yet, do you? Let me make this simple:

The .460 Rowland is not a factory chambered round by Glock. Period.

If you took a brand new Dodge pickup, dumped the engine and replaced it with a JATO, would Dodge honor the warranty because the frame bent? :wavey:

Underwood is known for ammo that is hotter than the hubs of hell and you have coupled that with a wildcat NON-FACTORY chambered round utilizing an AFTERMARKET barrel and AFTERMARKET RSA.

Got it? You're screwed. You tossed the dice & you lost. Accept it & move on. You'll need to buy a new slide and hopefully have learned your lesson.

I, by far, am not the only shooter that has chosen to fire .460 Rowland out of a G21.

Catshooter
01-30-2013, 18:22
Absoultley you're not the only 460 Rowland user.

So what are you gonna do?


Cat

vaquero aleman
01-30-2013, 18:34
My first action was to put my 21 back into 45ACP mode. Then I actually thought that it might benefit me to ask for advice, here at Glocktalk. I didn't expect to get such a negative response. I have sent emails to both LWD and Glock regarding this issue. This is not just about my G21. There are lots of people getting the conversion, and I thought that everybody with a conversion, or thinking about it, would find this post useful.

Catshooter
01-30-2013, 19:00
Well, this is the internet so the negative response is sorta predictable.

I wouldn't fire it even in ACP mode if it were mine.


Cat

vaquero aleman
01-30-2013, 19:12
For the most part, I agree. I wouldn't want to shoot my eye out.

dhoomonyou
01-30-2013, 20:14
Don't mention 460 Rowland, place factory 45 ACP barrel back into weapon, and ask Glock, "What happened to my Glock? How you going to fix it?"
Don't ask, and sure as hell don't tell:faint:

Shame on u for lying.

crash_gsxr750
01-30-2013, 20:38
Maybe time to just order a LW slide and use that with your 460 Rowland setup

I wonder if using the compensator (muzzle brake) might have help (this is question as I don't really have any idea if it would or not)

Makes me Leary of getting a 460 kit for mine

Might be better off just ordering tactical length slide, threaded barrel (460 ream) and LW comp to have a dedicated top just 460

turbostar66
01-31-2013, 08:26
The compensator for .460 Rowland conversions are NOT meant to be optional. If you are not using the compensator, then you are putting additional stress on the frame/breech.

vaquero aleman
01-31-2013, 09:09
Unless I am mistaken, the purpose of the compensator is to slow down the rearward movement of the slide. I don't see how it will change the amount of force that the brass will have against the breech face since the pressure created by the explosion causes the brass to hit the breech face before the slide begins to move. The movement of the slide is caused by the explosive forces pushing on it. So, not to be too redundant, the firing pin strikes the primer, the primer ignites the powder, the powder rapidly expands with tremendous force, slamming the brass and primer against the breech face and forces the slide to move. Slowing down the movement of the slide won't stop the brass from slamming against the breech face. It will just eliminate some of the force of the slide slamming against the frame, which in my case, the slide is stopped by the Sprinco unit before it can make contact with the frame.

vaquero aleman
01-31-2013, 09:19
Yes, I am beginning to agree with the fact that .460 Rowland is probably just too much for a Glock. I have enjoyed experimenting with the Rowland cartridge(glocktalk/ 21 club/ 460 anyone?) but I think that I will most likely just go back to 10mm. I already have the frame and barrel so I just need to get an LWD slide, like you guys have suggested. If it can't be done with 10mm, then your probably in the wrong place to begin with.

GRT45
01-31-2013, 11:22
Thanks very much for posting the information. I will keep this firmly in mind and pay extra attention to the breechface during routine inspections.

I'm satisfied the complete .460 Rowland conversion kit that is designed, tested and sold by Johnny Rowland (http://shop.460rowland.com/conversion_kits) for the Glock pistols is safe to use. Personally, I never even considered shooting .460 Rowland in a G30 without the supplied compensator. I'm not qualified to second guess Rowland on any of the pieces of his conversion kit to make substitutions, deletions or additions (barrel, RSA, or compensator). I will use it with confidence while Rowland stands behind his product and my inspections confirm no reason to be concerned. How infrequently I carry the pistol for woods protection has a bearing on my decision too.

crash_gsxr750
01-31-2013, 11:45
Thanks very much for posting the information. I will keep this firmly in mind and pay extra attention to the breechface during routine inspections.

I'm satisfied the complete conversion kit that is designed, tested and supplied by Johnny Rowland for the Glock pistols is safe to use. Personally, I never even considered shooting .460 Rowland in a G30 without the supplied compensator. I'm not qualified to second guess Rowland on any of the pieces of his conversion kit or make substitutions, deletions or additions. I will use it with confidence while Rowland stands behind his product and my inspections confirm no reason to be concerned. How infrequently I carry the pistol for woods protection has a bearing on my decision too.

This is what I'm hoping as I'd be interested in the JR 460 kit

Catshooter
01-31-2013, 11:50
[QUOTE=vaquero aleman;19932849] the firing pin strikes the primer, the primer ignites the powder, the powder rapidly expands with tremendous force, slamming the brass and primer against the breech face and forces the slide to move. QUOTE]

The brass does indeed jam against the breech face during the ignition process, but not that hard. And I doubt that that is what is causing the dishing. I would think that it would be the peak pressure thrust. Once pressure starts building the case walls are forced against the chamber walls so they grip them pretty hard.

If the brass was slamming the breech face that hard I would think that the headstamp would show it by being smoothed out/erased to some degree or another.

I would love to see a pic of a straight edge against the breech face. I would also love to see what the breech face tests for Rockwell hardness.

All in all an interesting post. Though I'm sorry for your loss! :)


Cat

vaquero aleman
01-31-2013, 13:05
Fortunately I live only one city away from Glock in Smyrna and they told me that I am welcome to bring my G21 up there to have it looked at. So, hopefully I will find out the final verdict tomorrow. And I will tell them the truth, the whole truth and nuthin but the truth because I only want to know if it is safe to shoot with or not, which is the original intention of this post.

And, based on what the Glock guy said, this is not necessarily a common occurrence but it is something that Glock is familiar with.

Catshooter
01-31-2013, 13:07
Excellent. Good luck and report back it you would.


Cat

crash_gsxr750
01-31-2013, 21:08
Please report back what the findings are

And if you can while your there could you please pick me up a couple g21 g17 mags while your at it :D

yellowhand
01-31-2013, 21:24
Shame on u for lying.

It was a very poor thought in a moment of weakness, that I freely admit. :faint::faint::sadangel:

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 04:35
Please report back what the findings are

And if you can while your there could you please pick me up a couple g21 g17 mags while your at it :D

I'll see if maybe they have some candies with the Glock logo on them.

gwdex
02-01-2013, 05:12
+ 1 to this. Honesty is the best policy.

Greg

G21SF
P220
P225
P226 Navy

crash_gsxr750
02-01-2013, 05:28
I'll see if maybe they have some candies with the Glock logo on them.

So long as they are peppermint

Joshhtn
02-01-2013, 05:31
Tagged

GRT45
02-01-2013, 11:13
Take note of this excerpt from the current Wikipedia entry for .460 Rowland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Rowland) (text emphasis is mine):

"The increase in slide velocity over a standard .45 ACP, or even a .45 Super round, cannot be properly controlled with an increase in recoil spring rate alone. Autoloaders properly converted to fire the mighty .460 Rowland Cartridge require a compensator or a ported barrel to insure reliable, long lasting, operation. This fact not withstanding, there continues to be customer demand for a "Stock-Looking" .460 Rowland Conversion; however, any effort to answer this demand is thus-far not supported by the Inventor. Mr. Rowland still maintains that a properly designed .460 Rowland Conversion requires an effective compensator to momentarily delay slide action until the very high pressures developed by his cartridge dissipate to more manageable levels. Without this compensation, slide or frame failure will result over time and reliability will suffer in the short term. [Citation; Mr. Johnny Ray Rowland]"

F106 Fan
02-01-2013, 12:01
The brass does indeed jam against the breech face during the ignition process, but not that hard. And I doubt that that is what is causing the dishing. I would think that it would be the peak pressure thrust. Once pressure starts building the case walls are forced against the chamber walls so they grip them pretty hard.


Although I am not a big fan, and I might not try it with the Rowland, it is possible to keep the slide from operating with very little hand pressure. For some odd reason, they're teaching that technique to LEOs. If the slide doesn't unlock, it doesn't take much to keep it closed. Yes, the pressure holding the case to the chamber retards the opening of the slide.

Looking at the primer in the photos above, I can't help but notice that the striker is dragging. I need to study that some more. I wonder if it is common to all Glocks?

I reload for my G21SF but I don't recall seeing a drag mark in the primer. Next time around, I'll look for it.

Richard

ken grant
02-01-2013, 12:30
Anyone thought of this?
Excessive Headspace? pressure builts in case when fired, bullet moves foward, primer backs out some, case slammed against breech with primer partway out.

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 12:39
Well, this is what happened at Glock, Inc. Smyrna today. The service rep gave me a ball cap

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300002_zps5ca8f0a0.jpg

And then he proceeded to explain that if I continue firing from this slide it will eventually fail. He couldn't give me a time frame, just that it would fail and also that the repair that I made on the frame would continue to crack and eventually fail as well. I did not get any specific information regarding why the slide is the way it is but pretty much just a sales pitch and a statement that the only thing they were willing to do was to replace the slide and the frame. Since they offered a brand new, last in the house, OD frame with all of the hardware installed and a brand new G21 slide with all of the hardware installed except that I kept my barrel and sights, all for $305.00US I couldn't pass it up. So I don't know any thing more about why the slide was caving in but now I have a new gun. Good enuff fo me. Different serial numbers but I don't care.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0008_zps7e4047a0.jpg

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 12:43
Oh, he did say that 45ACP+P is OK but no 45 Super. And I doubt, very much, that any kind of warranty came with this replacement. At least, he didn't offer that there was any.

kodiakpb
02-01-2013, 12:49
You lucked out. Interesting that they gave you a FDE frame since to my knowledge its a Lipsey's exclusive.

SJ 40
02-01-2013, 12:58
You lucked out. Interesting that they gave you a FDE frame since to my knowledge its a Lipsey's exclusive.In his post he said OD but in the photo it does appear FDE,could be the lighting. SJ 40

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 14:17
You lucked out. Interesting that they gave you a FDE frame since to my knowledge its a Lipsey's exclusive.

Your knowledge is correct. I got an OD frame. I asked if they might have any of the FDE frames and he said that he had never seen any there, so it is completely a Lipsey's thing.

And, it is because of the difference between using a flash and not using one. This happened to me when I first bought the OD 21 and I actually made a post about it in "The 21 Club".

"Flat Dark Earth vs OD, how do you know?"

When I am looking at the gun, in my hand, it is obviously OD but when I take pics of it with a flash it looks brown or tan.

Joshhtn
02-01-2013, 14:27
Congrats!! I'm a HUGE OD fan!! Own a few myself.... Glad this worked out good for you.

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 14:33
Check out this excerpt from Wikipedia when I was knee deep in the middle of experimenting with .460 Rowland:

Wikipedia excerpt(5/21/2012):
"Conversion kits co-developed by Wild West Guns and Jonny Rowland for the Smith & Wesson M&P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P), Glock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock) and Springfield Armory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory,_Inc.) Tactical striker type pistols, due to locking system differences, do not require use of a compensator. Slide velocity in these converted firearms is controlled with a change to the recoil spring alone. Consequently, the converted firearm is lighter and more compact than a converted 1911 type."

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 14:35
Congrats!! I'm a HUGE OD fan!! Own a few myself.... Glad this worked out good for you.

Thanks. Even though I paid for it, I am satisfied with the outcome of this debacle.

kodiakpb
02-01-2013, 15:00
Can you take a pic without a flash?

500WE
02-01-2013, 15:16
That level of customer service continues to amaze me!
:cheers:

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 17:03
No flash

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0004_zps81e63085.jpg

Fluorescent lighting though.

kodiakpb
02-01-2013, 17:45
No flash

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0004_zps81e63085.jpg

Fluorescent lighting though.

I don't know man...that sure looks like a FDE to me. Glock does make the FDE...it's just an exclusive for Lipsey's. I guess it's possible for the guy you talked to...to have never seen one, but that seems strange to me. Then again you said that you have owned an OD before...so you should know whether it is or not.

Either way you made out like a bandit, congrats.

Catshooter
02-01-2013, 18:32
Excellent, I love a story with a happy ending. :)


Cat

crash_gsxr750
02-01-2013, 19:32
No mints ?

Glock sure takes care of their customers

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 19:33
All I got for freebies was the ball cap and a sticker that says Glock.

WinterWizard
02-01-2013, 20:23
I must have missed the complaining part. I just saw someone post honestly what they did and asking if anyone has seen it.

The post IS the complaint. It's like saying, "I put a 800 horsepower V-10 in my Ford Ranger and I blew up the transmission. Has anyone else seen this...?"

Joshhtn
02-01-2013, 21:33
I don't know man...that sure looks like a FDE to me. Glock does make the FDE...it's just an exclusive for Lipsey's. I guess it's possible for the guy you talked to...to have never seen one, but that seems strange to me. Then again you said that you have owned an OD before...so you should know whether it is or not.

Either way you made out like a bandit, congrats.

It's OD.

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 21:54
Well, this is the internet so the negative response is sorta predictable.

I wouldn't fire it even in ACP mode if it were mine.


Cat

Yeh, I forgot, when I used to go to family barbeques, leaving the food out in the open did tend to draw a few flies.

AgentM79
02-01-2013, 22:00
That's certainly a gun/round combo that puts boot-to-arse! I'm glad you got to have some fun with it. I'd say get another G21 just to use with .45ACP, and keep the FDE G21 set-up for the .460 Rowland. That is certainly taking your Glock experience to the "next level".

roger123
02-02-2013, 06:29
Thanks. Even though I paid for it, I am satisfied with the outcome of this debacle.

Here's the $64,000 question, are you going to try the 460 again?

vaquero aleman
02-02-2013, 06:54
I believe that if I do it won't be with a Glock slide. I will definitely get an aftermarket slide since they are made to improve the characteristics of the Glock slide. The LWD and Caspian slides advertise their Rockwell hardness, where Glock does not. Although, from what I saw on the Caspian web site, they don't offer a G21 slide.

I'm not going to give up on .460 Rowland. But I am going to be a lot more cautious with how I go about it.

Here's another pic that looks more like OD Green.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0009_zpsa1140af7.jpg

AgentM79
02-02-2013, 09:59
Do it, Vaq! It is your destiny!

vaquero aleman
02-02-2013, 18:41
That's certainly a gun/round combo that puts boot-to-arse! I'm glad you got to have some fun with it. I'd say get another G21 just to use with .45ACP, and keep the FDE G21 set-up for the .460 Rowland. That is certainly taking your Glock experience to the "next level".

Funny thing is, I have never shot 460 Rowland with the appropriate compensator. I have only shot it from a 4.75" straight barrel using a Sprinco recoil reducer set up for Rowland and believe me when I tell you brother, it is like "Holy S@#T"! After shooting the 230gr Rowland I shot some 45 ACP - It felt like I was shooting a 9mil.

voonman
02-26-2013, 23:57
Funny thing is, I have never shot 460 Rowland with the appropriate compensator. I have only shot it from a 4.75" straight barrel using a Sprinco recoil reducer set up for Rowland and believe me when I tell you brother, it is like "Holy S@#T"! After shooting the 230gr Rowland I shot some 45 ACP - It felt like I was shooting a 9mil.


Hi Vaquero I just came across your post on my thread that someone left

Glad you made this follow up result on your 460rowland conversion that you did..I am trying to figure out what could have possibly cause the dishing in your slide..Could it have been possibly faulty ammo?Glocks Steel?Or a non compensated barrel?I couldnt figure it out..I contacted one of my buddies that is a gunsmith and i showed him your pics..He says he has never seen that in a glock slide before..he is convinced that it could be a slightly over pressured cartridge above factory 460rowland specs that could have caused this..maybe not so much the compensator..But it is too hard to determine without actually looking at the last set of cartridges that you fired right after you found this fault..I currently have 1300+ 460R rounds fired threw my glock30 and i have no signs of dishing or wobbling..I did also talk to Thomas from 460rowland.com and he said never try to fire the glock conversion without the compensator..If it is done it will overall tear down your glock..I am assuming this could be one of the factors?I have taken a few photos of my slide for your viewing ..I will also keep an eye out after i shoot another 400 through it..Below are the pics

vaquero aleman
02-27-2013, 03:20
Thanks Voonman. I am disappointed that the people at Glock did not further discuss the probabilities for the damage, with me. But it will all come out in the wash. I plan on, eventually, getting an LWD slide and starting over. I am still waiting for the 20/21 Timberwolf frames to be offered by LWD and then, I just may build an entire gun from scratch. Anyway, Happy shooting!

Tiro Fijo
02-27-2013, 04:52
...I am disappointed that the people at Glock did not further discuss the probabilities for the damage, with me...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_thrust

mo.glocker
02-27-2013, 10:54
Hi Vaquero I just came across your post on my thread that someone left

Glad you made this follow up result on your 460rowland conversion that you did..I am trying to figure out what could have possibly cause the dishing in your slide..Could it have been possibly faulty ammo?Glocks Steel?Or a non compensated barrel?I couldnt figure it out..I contacted one of my buddies that is a gunsmith and i showed him your pics..He says he has never seen that in a glock slide before..he is convinced that it could be a slightly over pressured cartridge above factory 460rowland specs that could have caused this..maybe not so much the compensator..But it is too hard to determine without actually looking at the last set of cartridges that you fired right after you found this fault..I currently have 1300+ 460R rounds fired threw my glock30 and i have no signs of dishing or wobbling..I did also talk to Thomas from 460rowland.com and he said never try to fire the glock conversion without the compensator..If it is done it will overall tear down your glock..I am assuming this could be one of the factors?I have taken a few photos of my slide for your viewing ..I will also keep an eye out after i shoot another 400 through it..Below are the pics

Rowland says its the comp or ported barrel that slows the slide. Down enough to where this don't happen,he needs to use one of the two to avoid this problem:wavey:

voonman
02-27-2013, 23:16
I guess it would be best to buy one of johnny rowlands factor 460R glock conversion kits instead of making one yourself..

mo.glocker
02-27-2013, 23:36
I guess it would be best to buy one of johnny rowlands factor 460R glock conversion kits instead of making one yourself..
he says the 21 kit quote(runs like an appliance)ill take that,i run 45 super for hunting missouri,i use a 21sf-buffer tech buffer,noname guid rod w/24lb spring and stock length stainless n/m barrel,if i ever go w/rowland i would feel safe doing it w/rowlands 21ported kit,it would be nice to have a 44 magnum glock in the woods-:wavey:

vaquero aleman
04-16-2013, 21:34
My intentions are to get another G21, an aftermarket slide with threaded barrel, a Yankee Hill Machine Co. three port stainless compensator and use the Sprinco that I already have to go at it again.

And after thinking about it, the last .460 ammo I shot was Underwood, and we all know that he always exceeds our expectations. When Underwood first listed the 185gr @ 1500fps he shortly there after made a statement on Facebook that he had to raise the velocity rating on that round because he was getting consistently higher velocities than 1500fps.

Of course, now I have something else to worry about other than how I go about putting a .460 Rowland together. I don't know when I will see any more ammo available, which is pushing me closer to rolling my own. I can always buy 45 Win Mag brass and cut it down to .460 Rowland length. The 45 Win Mag is pushing a 230 grain bullet to 1600 fps.

G26S239
04-16-2013, 22:24
No flash

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0004_zps81e63085.jpg

Fluorescent lighting though.

Glock really did you right. Congrats. :wavey:

TruthNotRelative
04-17-2013, 00:20
So you fired a cartridge in your Glock that it is not chambered for and produces about twice as much energy as .45 acp, and now your Glock is damaged, and you are complaining why?

Uhh, I read his posts and I don't see any "complaining" at all. He simply "told his story" and asked some questions.

TruthNotRelative
04-17-2013, 00:32
The post IS the complaint. It's like saying, "I put a 800 horsepower V-10 in my Ford Ranger and I blew up the transmission. Has anyone else seen this...?"

Umm, that still doesn't qualify as a "complaint".

Even if he says; "I put my cat in the microwave, and she blew up. Has anyone else seen this?" Still not a "complaint".

Nice OD, lucky ba*****.

nraman
04-18-2013, 17:59
Shame on u for lying.

That is not lying.
It is, not giving Glock the opportunity to blame the shooter for a possibly defective slide.
Considering that others don't have this problem, it is possible that the slide was not heat treated properly or another reason.
He doesn't have to say anything, he can sent the slide to the experts, they can examine it, determine the cause and act accordingly.

punkglock
05-16-2013, 23:01
To the OP, what barrel are you using? Is it properly ported or compensated? I've read multiple places this is likely to happen with a 460rowland and standard barrels.

I'm still testing mine...but after a few hundred rounds of Corbon, Wilson Combat (Hornady XTP) and Buffalo Bore I don't have any visible signs of wear on my G21 gen4 slide. I run a ported conversion kit from 460rowland.com.

cmr287
05-17-2013, 03:53
Maybe the slide wasn't hardened correctly, sounds like a call into Glock is in your future.

Absolutely agree.^^^^^^^

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

vaquero aleman
05-17-2013, 09:59
To the OP, what barrel are you using? Is it properly ported or compensated? I've read multiple places this is likely to happen with a 460rowland and standard barrels.

I'm still testing mine...but after a few hundred rounds of Corbon, Wilson Combat (Hornady XTP) and Buffalo Bore I don't have any visible signs of wear on my G21 gen4 slide. I run a ported conversion kit from 460rowland.com.

Below is the setup that I used for .460 Rowland. *I used a .45 acp chamber finisher from Brownells to cut the chamber. The barrel was an LWD 45TH for the G21, of course. And then, after doing some research on recoil assemblies, I decided that I could use a Sprinco recoil assy (factory altered for .460 Rowland) w/24# recoil spring to take the place of the compensator. For the most part it worked, and I am not convinced that any particular aspect of my setup caused my slide to cave in the way it did.

I am more than satisfied with Glock in Smryna's customer service, but the tech basically tap danced around the issue. I never got any real input from Glock as to why my slide dished.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/IMG_0035_zpsdfb1f5fe.jpg (http://s1163.photobucket.com/user/vaqueroaleman/media/460%20ROWLAND/IMG_0035_zpsdfb1f5fe.jpg.html)