Looking for Recommendations on a Powder [Archive] - Glock Talk

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lostclusters
02-03-2013, 12:44
I am preparing to start reloading for my Glock 10mm and I am looking for recommendations on a powder. What I am looking for is one powder that burns clean (does not leave much residue and not much or no smoke), will produce accurate loads at FBI velocities as well as full house loads, I suppose it should meter well to make it easy to use (all loads will be weighed), and produce the least flash. If it makes a difference I will most likely be using 180 and 220 grain bullets through a KKM standard length barrel with a 4 port comp. On occasion I may use a 6 inch barrel with a 4 port comp. If memory serves Blue Dot may be a candidate. Thanks in advance.

lowflyer
02-03-2013, 12:49
I suggest visiting the websites of the various powder manufacturers.

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Kwesi
02-03-2013, 14:12
I use Power Pistol and Blue Dot for my 180 FMJ's but neither are low flash. If you are willing to hand weight and check every charge then look into 800-X. It meters poorly like corn flakes.

Supermag1
02-03-2013, 19:07
I've been kind of looking for the same thing and might try AA No 9. Anyone with opinions on it?

_The_Shadow
02-03-2013, 20:53
At the reduced velocities getting a powder to burn clean is a challenge, HS-6 is said to be low flash but that will take some work.

Hodgdon shows HS-6 7.4 grains for 940 fps with the 180 grain Sierra JHC 22,000psi.
Hodgdon shows 231 5.2 grains for 944 fps with the 180 grain Sierra JHC 29,700psi.

Power Pistol is clean burning in the lower levels than Blue Dot but both are good in the upper velocity ranges.

About the 180 & 220 gr. if these are cast bullet and depending on the lube being used and bullet seal this will be the determining factor for the smoke you see!

lostclusters
02-03-2013, 21:21
At this point I will not be using cast bullets.

Taterhead
02-03-2013, 22:38
You are probably looking at Accurate no. 7. It is low flash, reasonably clean burning, and doesn't mind being downloaded too much. The inside and outside of spent brass is sparkly clean, but there is some microscopic flecks of residue in the gun. It is also a fairly high performing powder when cranked up a bit. No powders meter as well as Accurate powders. The only downside it that it is not efficient; meaning that you'll use more powder per round than others.

Blue Dot is awesome, but it is very dirty when down loaded. It is also about the flashiest powder you'll find. Mostly flash doesn't bother me at all. I use more BD than any. The soot it produces at modest pressure loads does not bother my G20 at all.

Taterhead
02-03-2013, 22:51
I've been kind of looking for the same thing and might try AA No 9. Anyone with opinions on it?

Accurate no. 9 is an outstanding 10mm powder. But it is best run at full strength, and not downloaded, since it is a fairly slow-burning powder. It meters supurbly due to its extremely fine granules. It has given top velocities for me in 155 - 200 grain weights, while sticking with book data. Some guys are getting faster results with 800-X and Longshot by going way "over book." Bottom line though, is that A9 is the best performer for my G20 for book loads. It is also clean burning with low flash. It has good case fill, so there is no risk for double charging a case.

The huge downside for volume loads is that you will use as much as 50% more powder. My 180 grain "range load" consumes 13.5 grains per charge. A can of powder goes pretty quickly at those charge weights.

Supermag1
02-04-2013, 07:35
Accurate no. 9 is an outstanding 10mm powder. But it is best run at full strength, and not downloaded, since it is a fairly slow-burning powder. It meters supurbly due to its extremely fine granules. It has given top velocities for me in 155 - 200 grain weights, while sticking with book data. Some guys are getting faster results with 800-X and Longshot by going way "over book." Bottom line though, is that A9 is the best performer for my G20 for book loads. It is also clean burning with low flash. It has good case fill, so there is no risk for double charging a case.

The huge downside for volume loads is that you will use as much as 50% more powder. My 180 grain "range load" consumes 13.5 grains per charge. A can of powder goes pretty quickly at those charge weights.

Thanks for the info!

BMiracletx
02-04-2013, 09:26
I say for your use... Longshot.

GONIF
02-04-2013, 13:44
LONGSHOT ALL THE WAY.:cool:I say for your use... Longshot.

gofastman
03-02-2013, 09:38
Longshot is great, but I think you may want to check out WSF, Its fills a very similar roll as Unique, no nuclear velocitys, but great accuracy, clean and low flash.

I think of it as Longshot's less athletic, but more precice, nerdy little brother :supergrin:

Taterhead
03-02-2013, 16:49
Longshot is great, but I think you may want to check out WSF, Its fills a very similar roll as Unique, no nuclear velocitys, but great accuracy, clean and low flash.

I think of it as Longshot's less athletic, but more precice, nerdy little brother :supergrin:

Good call on WSF. I loaded some tester strings a few weeks ago, and finally got around to doing some testing today. WSF ran great. These loads would be great for someone looking for a gamer load for 10mm auto. Velocities for some of the strings were below 900 fps with a 180. The G20 cycled them just fine.

It also meters quite well too.

Taterhead
03-02-2013, 16:52
Really, right now whatever you can find on the shelf would be what I would grab. WSF, Accurate 5/7/9, Blue Dot, Longshot, or 800-X. I have used all in my G20. All work with the proper charge weights.

ryangt
03-03-2013, 15:11
Longshot!

I like my loads hot. But have been doing extremely weak loads for my wife to shoot too. Just bought 8 lbs.

GONIF
03-04-2013, 15:24
:cool:I say for your use... Longshot.

Bongo Boy
03-14-2013, 21:58
Well, except that the OP asked for low flash...which I don't think you're going to get with Longshot (the flashiest powder I've ever used next to No 5). I've not used No 9 at all, but it's faster brethren, while metering nicely of course, tends to splash out of the cases on my Lock-n-Load. I'm interesting in trying it though, it sounds promising and like the feature of filling out the case nicely even if it takes a big charge.

What are your thoughts about SR4756? It's my first choice for top end loads in 40 and 45, is super clean, meters very well and has virtually no flash. I don't think it produces the highest octane loads in the world, but I think the charges are reasonable.

Also, I was just looking at the numbers for AutoComp and wow...pretty impressive specs. I've never looked at it at all until just moments ago--anyone used it in 10? Seems it might be a candidate with the ported barrels.

Maine1
03-15-2013, 01:02
Unique for reasonably powerful practice load
Blue dot for a bit hotter load

hand weighed 800X for fullpower loads.

Longshot, AA#9, 2400, H110 and a few others did not get me what i wanted, though they all functioned well enough. Just not up to full power loads.

MakeMineA10mm
03-15-2013, 14:57
Longshot is great, but I think you may want to check out WSF, Its fills a very similar roll as Unique, no nuclear velocitys, but great accuracy, clean and low flash.

I think of it as Longshot's less athletic, but more precice, nerdy little brother :supergrin:

For what the OP wants to accomplish, this is a great choice. It will accomplish most of the criteria very well. It can also be loaded upwards for warmer loads, although top-end loads would require something more specialized. FWIW, I find WSF to be a little slower than Unique most of the time, but it's not an 800x or AA#9 slowness.


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lostclusters
03-15-2013, 21:07
Low flash is a low priority. I appreciate all the input. Thanks guys!

Yondering
03-18-2013, 22:04
Longshot, AA#9, 2400, H110 and a few others did not get me what i wanted, though they all functioned well enough. Just not up to full power loads.

If you can't work up full power loads using Longshot or AA9, you're doing it wrong. AA9 produces some of the highest velocity, within pressure limits, of any 10mm powder. Longshot comes pretty close too.

2400 and H110 are both too slow to be worth bothering with. (Although full load of 2400 does make a very consistent 10mm-lite load).

AA7 or AA9 for good metering, full power, and low flash. AA7 for the lighter bullets, AA9 for 165-220gr bullets.

Any Cal.
03-18-2013, 22:57
Well, except that the OP asked for low flash...which I don't think you're going to get with Longshot (the flashiest powder I've ever used next to No 5). I've not used No 9 at all, but it's faster brethren, while metering nicely of course, tends to splash out of the cases on my Lock-n-Load. I'm interesting in trying it though, it sounds promising and like the feature of filling out the case nicely even if it takes a big charge.

What are your thoughts about SR4756? It's my first choice for top end loads in 40 and 45, is super clean, meters very well and has virtually no flash. I don't think it produces the highest octane loads in the world, but I think the charges are reasonable.

Also, I was just looking at the numbers for AutoComp and wow...pretty impressive specs. I've never looked at it at all until just moments ago--anyone used it in 10? Seems it might be a candidate with the ported barrels.

I really like 4756, but haven't used it in 10mm. It is efficient, probably a good candidate for economical mid-range loads. I used to use it often, but ran out. I have used 7625 in 10mm, which is very slightly faster, and it worked well for medium 200g loads. Both are similar to Blue Dot, I think, so could be a good place to start if you want to start doing some workups.

Any Cal.
03-18-2013, 23:01
If you can't work up full power loads using Longshot or AA9, you're doing it wrong. AA9 produces some of the highest velocity, within pressure limits, of any 10mm powder. Longshot comes pretty close too.

2400 and H110 are both too slow to be worth bothering with. (Although full load of 2400 does make a very consistent 10mm-lite load).

AA7 or AA9 for good metering, full power, and low flash. AA7 for the lighter bullets, AA9 for 165-220gr bullets.

H110 works ok with a kicker charge...:supergrin: Kind of like a blackpowder duplex or an old Casull load. Still couldn't beat using the right powder though.

lostclusters
03-18-2013, 23:03
I really like 4756, but haven't used it in 10mm. It is efficient, probably a good candidate for economical mid-range loads. I used to use it often, but ran out. I have used 7625 in 10mm, which is very slightly faster, and it worked well for medium 200g loads. Both are similar to Blue Dot, I think, so could be a good place to start if you want to start doing some workups.


Interesting!

MakeMineA10mm
03-19-2013, 17:32
I really like 4756, but haven't used it in 10mm. It is efficient, probably a good candidate for economical mid-range loads. I used to use it often, but ran out. I have used 7625 in 10mm, which is very slightly faster, and it worked well for medium 200g loads. Both are similar to Blue Dot, I think, so could be a good place to start if you want to start doing some workups.

4756 is faster than BD and 7625 is FAR FASTER than BD. Not sure, but maybe you were talking about metering qualities and not burn rate -- all the more why we should be careful about ambiguities in what we're talking about.


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FloorPoor
03-19-2013, 20:17
I'm a big of a fan of Unique for my handgun loads. Decent velocities with small charges, and very clean burning.

It's efficient and versatile.

I use it for .357mag, .44 mag, and 9mm loads, but I've not ever loaded 10mm, so not quite sure what the data is on that one.

It's also a good shot shell powder.

Any Cal.
03-20-2013, 03:17
4756 is faster than BD and 7625 is FAR FASTER than BD. Not sure, but maybe you were talking about metering qualities and not burn rate -- all the more why we should be careful about ambiguities in what we're talking about.


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Good call. I was referring to burn rate, but was getting powders mixed up. 4756 is next to 800x on Hodgdon's burn rate chart, which made me want to do some workups with it, since 4756 meters well and 800x supposedly does well when pushed. It was not Blue Dot, that was my slip; it looked wrong when I wrote it, but couldn't figure out why.

On another note, I am surprised by 7625s position on the chart. I knew it was faster, but didn't expect for it to sit next to AA2... it tends to be used in some of the same applications as 4756, just with a bit less charge and velocity.

MakeMineA10mm
03-20-2013, 06:38
4756, being an IMR-brand powder, is an extruded, although short cut, propellent. Another big problem for confusion is that 4759 IS an extra-slow powder that's not far from being appropriate for 10mm. (Only one number different and that number is the "same" number flipped upside down -- Don't be dyslexic and have these powders on your shelves...) Be sure to check the IMR powder sticky above. I seem to recall a little dabbling with the SR powders and it was found they do not achieve anything spectacular.


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Bongo Boy
03-20-2013, 09:12
Here's some 4756 and 800X data I just took yesterday. I've posted the chart elsewhere here, but I don't think this constitutes double-posting as the context is a bit different here. I'm not advocating any of these loads, just posting the data I collected from the loads I put together, nothing more.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/10x25InitialLoadDatav2_zpscc5a0abd.jpg

LSWC - Lead semi-wadcutter
JHP - Montana Gold jacketed hollow-point
PHP - Rainier Ballistics plated hollow-point
RNFP - Round-nose flat-point (Accurate Molds)
SWC - Lead semi-wadcutter (same as LSWC)
TC - Lead truncated cone (Lee molds)
XTP - Hornady XTP

Loads that I found especially 'fun' shooters:

- the 8.7 gr 800X under the 180 gr TC
- 8.6 gr 4756 under the 150 gr LSWC

Other notes from the bench:

- Significant primer flattening with the 9.8 gr 800X under the XTPs (duh)
- Moderate primer flattening with the 8,9 gr 800X under the 180gr JHPs

These last two were noted, doesn't mean the same symptoms didn't show in other loads--I just didn't take the time to walk 10 yds to look at the brass while I was shooting them.

The average standard deviation was 1.9% of average muzzle velocity, which I thought wasn't too shabby at all.

Bongo Boy
03-20-2013, 09:43
On another note, I am surprised by 7625s position on the chart. I knew it was faster, but didn't expect for it to sit next to AA2...

It's not close to No 2 on my chart--it's listed at 62 I think, slower than No 5. The sad thing about my chart(s) at least is that they're completely undocumented--I have no idea where they came from. The other aspect of them that makes them sketchy is that there's no metric associated with any of the powders on the list--no universally-accepted or industry-standard burn rate parameter, measured or calculated, by which to verify any of the powders on the list.

Anyway, the one I'm looking at has 246 powder entries, with at least one entry being clearly BS ('Universal' listed at #48, 'Universal Clays' listed at #49, and 'Clays' listed at #11). So, I sure don't depend on it for much other than a starting point for inquiry. Or not.

MakeMineA10mm
03-31-2013, 09:49
I've found 7625 to move around (a LOT) on the burn rate charts. I've also found that many powders perform differently (in terms of burn speed relative to one another) in the closed bomb test vs. in actual loading.

This also can (but not always-depends on the powder) change when looking at the powder's relative burn speed in low-pressure (shotgun) vs medium pressure (handgun) vs high-pressure (rifle). I load all three, but am mainly a pistol guy, so my personal burn-rate chart modifies the published "closed bomb" charts based on what I've experienced loading these powders in pistols.

In that venue ("medium-pressure" or about 15,000-30,000 psi) I have 7625 as burning around Green Dot (so a touch slower than W231, and a bit faster than Unique). In a low-pressure environment (shotshells, <10,000 psi), it tends to burn faster, like AA2 or Red Dot. At least that's been my, admittedly limited (only burned a couple pounds of it), experience with 7625.


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Bongo Boy
04-02-2013, 14:31
Good point on pressure-dependence--while that may be a well-known dependency I never put it together with shotshell vs handgun chamber pressures. Good thing to keep in mind.

Any Cal.
04-02-2013, 22:56
I agree, solid info. Thanks!

gator378
04-11-2013, 16:26
I've been kind of looking for the same thing and might try AA No 9. Anyone with opinions on it?

Been using AA#9 for almost 10 years. Accurate.

200 grain XTP 13.0 grains AA#9 av vel 10rds was
1,112 fps with Mag primer. Not the holy grail of 1200fps but for me close enough since I have never had presssure signs with this load. Some other powders may get higher velocity, but then you walk the pressure line. Many like Hodgon long shot powder.