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ilateapex
02-03-2013, 14:12
I have a ccdw from KY and am working in WV. I am on a large project where it is posted "no firearms" and that they can search your vehicle. I was always under the impression that if you disarmed discreetly and secured the firearm in your vehicle without brandishing it you were OK even on private property. I definitely want to carry while traveling but don't want any issues while on the project. Is secured in my vehicle obeying the no firearms request?

Thanks.

Michael


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md2lgyk
02-03-2013, 16:20
Is secured in my vehicle obeying the no firearms request?

Thanks.

Michael


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That's up to the site owner. But if they reserve the right to search your car, I'm guessing it does not.

TK-421
02-03-2013, 16:45
It depends on the local laws and where exactly you'll be parking your car. Do you have the option to park somewhere close by, stash your firearm, and then walk over. Here in Texas, you're allowed to have your firearm in your car, in no gun zones, as long as your car is parked in the parking lot. So when I get my CHL, I can carry my gun to school, as long as it stays within my car, and doesn't leave my car. It might be something similar where your job is, I don't know. You'll have to call the local police and ask their opinion, since they'll be the ones to arrest you if you screw up.

SPIN2010
02-03-2013, 16:47
Guns left in cars are a serious worry ... I would rethink it.

The Fed
02-03-2013, 16:57
Cannot find out on the web if you can or not. You'll need to ask an informed VW-ian.

Florida just passed a law like that recently.

9mmmountaineer
02-03-2013, 20:46
From WV here and although I've never been out of state in a predicament like that, I have been in a similar situation in the state. I locked it in my glove box and went on about my day. If in a urban location such as Charleston, Morgantown, or Huntington I'd not leave it in my vehicle. Pretty much anywhere else I've been I would confidently leave it in my car


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Rleee
02-03-2013, 21:41
Purchase a small pistol sized gun safe that you can mount in your car. They bolt to the floorboard. Let the landowner search the car except inside the box if it comes up.

larry_minn
02-04-2013, 01:38
Forget state law. Lets get basic. IF part of agreement is they can search car, if its a "at will" state. If you refuse search (my understanding is they could fire you) If they find a gun (they will likely fire you) ......
Good luck. Heck even if not "at will" they WILL find ways to get rid of you.

Spiffums
02-04-2013, 08:20
I have more of a problem with the reserving the right to search your car than with the no guns. You'd have to have a really good reason to search my car without me showing my ass over it if you don't have a warrant and/or aren't arresting me.

redbaron007
02-04-2013, 09:38
I have a ccdw from KY and am working in WV. I am on a large project where it is posted "no firearms" and that they can search your vehicle. I was always under the impression that if you disarmed discreetly and secured the firearm in your vehicle without brandishing it you were OK even on private property. I definitely want to carry while traveling but don't want any issues while on the project. Is secured in my vehicle obeying the no firearms request?

Thanks.

Michael


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The answer is not so simple. It's dependent on the state laws. If the state allows the business the option to search your vehicle on their property, you may have some concerns. The other question is, can the employer request to search your vehicle at will; if so, another concern.

So, in a nut shell; find out what your employer says in writing, i.e. employee manual, then go from there. It's a tricky issue...depending on the state.

Good Luck.

:wavey:

red

Lord
02-04-2013, 10:46
It depends on the local laws and where exactly you'll be parking your car. Do you have the option to park somewhere close by, stash your firearm, and then walk over. Here in Texas, you're allowed to have your firearm in your car, in no gun zones, as long as your car is parked in the parking lot. So when I get my CHL, I can carry my gun to school, as long as it stays within my car, and doesn't leave my car. It might be something similar where your job is, I don't know. You'll have to call the local police and ask their opinion, since they'll be the ones to arrest you if you screw up.

Generally, you're correct, but there is more. In TX, employers (some) used to mandate that the no carry at work also meant your car in the lot. TX recently passed a law that forbade employers from doing that anymore UNLESS the parking lot was:
1. private property of the business owner 2. properly posted at the entrances to that parking lot and 3. the parking lot has controlled entry.

there may be more to it, but that's the gist of it. School parking lots were exempted because they realized the irrationality of dropping off or picking up kids, and having to park down the street, securing the firearm in vehicle, and walking up to get the kids.

There was one questionable argument to this that I found out the answer to first hand. I thought that maybe that drop off and pickup rule could be used against you if you did as described... lock it in the car and go inside. I do that when I go to school (college campus). My vehicle was recently vandalized and I suffered theft (they cut out and stole my catalytic converters). When I notified the police to report it, I showed my CHL and they asked if I had the weapon on me. I informed them no, it's locked in the vehicle. No problem as long as it didn't go into the common "on premises" areas aka inside a building.

ca survivor
02-05-2013, 07:11
Cannot find out on the web if you can or not. You'll need to ask an informed VW-ian.

Florida just passed a law like that recently.

what law did Florida just passed ? thanks.

SgtScott31
02-05-2013, 09:12
Unless there's a state statute that outlines what an employer can or cannot do, then the employer can likely do what they want on their property. You can refuse the search, but be ready to face the repercussions. If they tell you no guns and any vehicle is subject to search, then I would take their word for it.

Here's the bottom line: How much do you value your employment?

It sounds like there are some states that already prohibit employers from enacting a policy involving weapons in the vehicle to/from work, but as others have mentioned it depends.

The first bill in front of the TN Senate this year is the exact same issue. Whether an employer can restrict firearms in the vehicle on private property. Obviously it's a balancing act between the right of the employer versus the intrusion of a person's right to be able to carry his/her gun from point A to point B. The first attempt failed and the pro-gun folks (along with NRA backing) were able to get a republican ousted out of office because she changed her vote last minute.

RussP
02-05-2013, 09:14
I have a ccdw from KY and am working in WV. I am on a large project where it is posted "no firearms" and that they can search your vehicle. I was always under the impression that if you disarmed discreetly and secured the firearm in your vehicle without brandishing it you were OK even on private property. I definitely want to carry while traveling but don't want any issues while on the project. Is secured in my vehicle obeying the no firearms request?

Thanks.

Michael


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)Click on this link, Places Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License (http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf) and scroll down to that section.

Here is a link to the West Virginia Code. West Virginia Code (http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE/code.cfm?chap=61&art=7&section=WVC%2061%20%20-%20%207%20%20-%20%2011%20A.htm#WVC%2061%20%20-%20%207%20%20-%20%2011%20A.htm). Scroll down to §61-7-14. Right of certain persons to limit possession of firearms on premises.

:wavey:

Toetag
02-05-2013, 13:06
I have a ccdw from KY and am working in WV. I am on a large project where it is posted "no firearms" and that they can search your vehicle.

I'm in Florida, "they" can't search my car in the parking at my place of employment. My supervisors are specifically barred by statute from doing so. They can prohibit me from carrying at work, but not prohibit me from carrying in my car.
My opinion is that the rule is unenforceable anyway and probably flies in the face of the Constitution.

edcrosbys
02-05-2013, 20:55
I'm in Florida, "they" can't search my car in the parking at my place of employment. My supervisors are specifically barred by statute from doing so. They can prohibit me from carrying at work, but not prohibit me from carrying in my car.
My opinion is that the rule is unenforceable anyway and probably flies in the face of the Constitution.

Probably not. Individual Rights/Property Owner Rights are a very delicate line. Where some states have swayed towards individuals (TX, FL) others have swayed towards the Property Owner (VA).

http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions%20and%20Legal%20Resources/Opinions/2012opns/11-111%20Newman.pdf

Toetag
02-05-2013, 21:25
Glad I'm in Florida.

FireForged
02-05-2013, 21:35
If a person has a right to bar firearms from their private property, why not simply honor that request.

Lord
02-06-2013, 14:09
If a person has a right to bar firearms from their private property, why not simply honor that request.

Because not all businesses own the parking lot where there business is located. If they don't own it, then they don't have the right to tell you what you can and can't do there.

glockurai
02-06-2013, 15:12
what law did Florida just passed ? thanks.
790.251 Protection of the right to keep and bear arms in motor vehicles for self-defense and other lawful purposes; prohibited acts; duty of public and private employers; immunity from liability; enforcement.—
(1) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be cited as the “Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008.”
(2) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Parking lot” means any property that is used for parking motor vehicles and is available to customers, employees, or invitees for temporary or long-term parking or storage of motor vehicles.
(b) “Motor vehicle” means any automobile, truck, minivan, sports utility vehicle, motor home, recreational vehicle, motorcycle, motor scooter, or any other vehicle operated on the roads of this state and required to be registered under state law.
(c) “Employee” means any person who possesses a valid license issued pursuant to s. 790.06 and:
1. Works for salary, wages, or other remuneration;
2. Is an independent contractor; or
3. Is a volunteer, intern, or other similar individual for an employer.
(d) “Employer” means any business that is a sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, limited liability company, professional association, cooperative, joint venture, trust, firm, institution, or association, or public sector entity, that has employees.
(e) “Invitee” means any business invitee, including a customer or visitor, who is lawfully on the premises of a public or private employer.
As used in this section, the term “firearm” includes ammunition and accoutrements attendant to the lawful possession and use of a firearm.
(3) LEGISLATIVE INTENT; FINDINGS.—This act is intended to codify the long-standing legislative policy of the state that individual citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, that they have a constitutional right to possess and keep legally owned firearms within their motor vehicles for self-defense and other lawful purposes, and that these rights are not abrogated by virtue of a citizen becoming a customer, employee, or invitee of a business entity. It is the finding of the Legislature that a citizen’s lawful possession, transportation, and secure keeping of firearms and ammunition within his or her motor vehicle is essential to the exercise of the fundamental constitutional right to keep and bear arms and the constitutional right of self-defense. The Legislature finds that protecting and preserving these rights is essential to the exercise of freedom and individual responsibility. The Legislature further finds that no citizen can or should be required to waive or abrogate his or her right to possess and securely keep firearms and ammunition locked within his or her motor vehicle by virtue of becoming a customer, employee, or invitee of any employer or business establishment within the state, unless specifically required by state or federal law.
(4) PROHIBITED ACTS.—No public or private employer may violate the constitutional rights of any customer, employee, or invitee as provided in paragraphs (a)-(e):
(a) No public or private employer may prohibit any customer, employee, or invitee from possessing any legally owned firearm when such firearm is lawfully possessed and locked inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot and when the customer, employee, or invitee is lawfully in such area.
(b) No public or private employer may violate the privacy rights of a customer, employee, or invitee by verbal or written inquiry regarding the presence of a firearm inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot or by an actual search of a private motor vehicle in a parking lot to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle. Further, no public or private employer may take any action against a customer, employee, or invitee based upon verbal or written statements of any party concerning possession of a firearm stored inside a private motor vehicle in a parking lot for lawful purposes. A search of a private motor vehicle in the parking lot of a public or private employer to ascertain the presence of a firearm within the vehicle may only be conducted by on-duty law enforcement personnel, based upon due process and must comply with constitutional protections.
(c) No public or private employer shall condition employment upon either:
1. The fact that an employee or prospective employee holds or does not hold a license issued pursuant to s. 790.06; or
2. Any agreement by an employee or a prospective employee that prohibits an employee from keeping a legal firearm locked inside or locked to a private motor vehicle in a parking lot when such firearm is kept for lawful purposes.
(d) No public or private employer shall prohibit or attempt to prevent any customer, employee, or invitee from entering the parking lot of the employer’s place of business because the customer’s, employee’s, or invitee’s private motor vehicle contains a legal firearm being carried for lawful purposes, that is out of sight within the customer’s, employee’s, or invitee’s private motor vehicle.
(e) No public or private employer may terminate the employment of or otherwise discriminate against an employee, or expel a customer or invitee for exercising his or her constitutional right to keep and bear arms or for exercising the right of self-defense as long as a firearm is never exhibited on company property for any reason other than lawful defensive purposes.
This subsection applies to all public sector employers, including those already prohibited from regulating firearms under the provisions of s. 790.33.
(5) DUTY OF CARE OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE EMPLOYERS; IMMUNITY FROM LIABILITY.—
(a) When subject to the provisions of subsection (4), a public or private employer has no duty of care related to the actions prohibited under such subsection.
(b) A public or private employer is not liable in a civil action based on actions or inactions taken in compliance with this section. The immunity provided in this subsection does not apply to civil actions based on actions or inactions of public or private employers that are unrelated to compliance with this section.
(c) Nothing contained in this section shall be interpreted to expand any existing duty, or create any additional duty, on the part of a public or private employer, property owner, or property owner’s agent.
(6) ENFORCEMENT.—The Attorney General shall enforce the protections of this act on behalf of any customer, employee, or invitee aggrieved under this act. If there is reasonable cause to believe that the aggrieved person’s rights under this act have been violated by a public or private employer, the Attorney General shall commence a civil or administrative action for damages, injunctive relief and civil penalties, and such other relief as may be appropriate under the provisions of s. 760.51, or may negotiate a settlement with any employer on behalf of any person aggrieved under the act. However, nothing in this act shall prohibit the right of a person aggrieved under this act to bring a civil action for violation of rights protected under the act. In any successful action brought by a customer, employee, or invitee aggrieved under this act, the court shall award all reasonable personal costs and losses suffered by the aggrieved person as a result of the violation of rights under this act. In any action brought pursuant to this act, the court shall award all court costs and attorney’s fees to the prevailing party.
(7) EXCEPTIONS.—The prohibitions in subsection (4) do not apply to:
(a) Any school property as defined and regulated under s. 790.115.
(b) Any correctional institution regulated under s. 944.47 or chapter 957.
(c) Any property where a nuclear-powered electricity generation facility is located.
(d) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which are conducted substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security.
(e) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials regulated under state or federal law, or property owned or leased by an employer who has obtained a permit required under 18 U.S.C. s. 842 to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials on such property.
(f) A motor vehicle owned, leased, or rented by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer.
(g) Any other property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which possession of a firearm or other legal product by a customer, employee, or invitee is prohibited pursuant to any federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or general law of this state.